https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxh-o9ENW5o

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 23. November 2022 um 09:42:50 UTC+1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxh-o9ENW5o

90% of this ng would run crying to their mothers after a rehearsal with Toscanini ;D

It's actually funny that people's feelings are hurt by the truth...

Today: Men who identify as women are hurt when you tell them that they aren't women... Crazy times...

What I respect about Jews (judging from my experience) is that they don't seem to be hurt that easily - generally speaking. Non-Jews probably wouldn't last a day in the shoes of a Jew.

Nietzsche:

"The whole problem of the Jews exists only in nation states, for here their energy and higher intelligence, their accumulated capital of spirit and will, gathered from generation to generation through a long schooling in suffering, must become so
preponderant as to arouse mass envy and hatred. In almost all contemporary nations, therefore – in direct proportion to the degree to which they act up nationalistically – the literary obscenity of leading the Jews to slaughter as scapegoats of every
conceivable public and internal misfortune is spreading."

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Piano! Piano!

Listen to the Münchner Philharmoniker and Celibidache for piano! piano!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh2VuhPWOFU

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 23. November 2022 um 10:39:57 UTC+1:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 23. November 2022 um 09:42:50 UTC+1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxh-o9ENW5o

90% of this ng would run crying to their mothers after a rehearsal with Toscanini ;D

It's actually funny that people's feelings are hurt by the truth...

Today: Men who identify as women are hurt when you tell them that they aren't women... Crazy times...

What I respect about Jews (judging from my experience) is that they don't seem to be hurt that easily - generally speaking. Non-Jews probably wouldn't last a day in the shoes of a Jew.

Nietzsche:

"The whole problem of the Jews exists only in nation states, for here their energy and higher intelligence, their accumulated capital of spirit and will, gathered from generation to generation through a long schooling in suffering, must become so

preponderant as to arouse mass envy and hatred. In almost all contemporary nations, therefore – in direct proportion to the degree to which they act up nationalistically – the literary obscenity of leading the Jews to slaughter as scapegoats of every
conceivable public and internal misfortune is spreading."

Just to avoid any misunderstanding:

I do not like his attitude with the orchestra, nor the the music in the end - but, I can see his passion and honesty, and I value things like this. He seems to have an idea in his head and wants to get it across.

To make good music means to work, it is a struggle, frustration is humane. If I as a musician would value the music of Toscanini, then I would bear this. He should be free to express himself, and he was not in any way completely out of line as far as I
can tell (besides being too loud). Sure there are nicer ways to speak to people, but trying to make it into a law that one should always treat musicians with a soft voice and cuddle them as a conductor is just pure bullshit - and that's what we mostly
have today.

What we miss today are "visionaries", and it is normal for an artist to become frustated when things don't work out as they have them in their heads. This is part of art. One can't just eradicate this from the realm of art, because of political-
correctness and tell artists to behave in a certain way. Now I am not saying everything is allowed obviously... but the Toscanini video is not too shocking to me...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 7:17:43 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

What we miss today are "visionaries",

Nope. We do not miss visionaries at all.
We just ignore them and disparage them.

One needs to look no farther than this ng,
e.g. seeing how most of this audience
treated HJ Lim, Kyuhee Park Or Tomomi
Nishimoto.

I would also never describe Toscanini as
a "visionary". He was a pedantic military
band conductor, a strict literalist driven
by a metronome, utterly incapable of
the slightest trace of expression.

Case closed.

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 23. November 2022 um 17:08:38 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 7:17:43 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

What we miss today are "visionaries",

Nope. We do not miss visionaries at all.
We just ignore them and disparage them.

Says the one who loves Celibidache... Do you ignore and disparage him too?

I think what I mean with visionaries were people with their own vision about works. (I should have never used this term, as it is meaningless the way I used it.)

I think calling Celibidache (even Pletnev though I don't like him) a visionary would be appropriate. So I again don't get where you are going...

One needs to look no farther than this ng,
e.g. seeing how most of this audience
treated HJ Lim, Kyuhee Park Or Tomomi
Nishimoto.

;D I can't believe you are being serious.

I would also never describe Toscanini as
a "visionary". He was a pedantic military
band conductor, a strict literalist driven
by a metronome, utterly incapable of
the slightest trace of expression.

Case closed.

dk

Yes, I agree with your description about his music. And I should have not used "visionary" in this context.

What I was more on about is, that music is not just about fun, dan - and I would love some more strictness in teaching back ;) You really need to grow up one day. And this is precisely why we don't need more of HJ Lim type pianists.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 23. November 2022 um 20:02:15 UTC+1:

What I was more on about is, that music is not just about fun, dan - and I would love some more strictness in teaching back ;) You really need to grow up one day. And this is precisely why we don't need more of HJ Lim type pianists.

I should have not said that "you really need to grow up one day". You are grown up enough... but hmmm... nevermind. We just view things differently in this regard. You are too much against any kind of intellectual approach (as in thinking too much about)
to music is what I mean i think...

To make things sound naturally, there has to be thought put into it... Celibidache's approach (even though I don't agree with his philosophy etc) is intellectual... He deeply thought about the score and what to do with it. They worked their asses off to
make it sound the way it does. And the thing is, you know this. Yet you ignore it, when saying such nonsense as "we need no visionaries", while loving Celibidache (who is nearer to Furtwängler-Richter-style than HJ Lim is to Richter-Furtwängler-style
imo). Richter, Furtwängler and Celibidache are completely different from each other, but HJ Lim "does not deserve to be named among them". Sokolov "does have more right". Anyway, enjoy HJ Lim ;) I just don't understand it. And usually I enjoy your recs.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 11:02:15 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 23. November 2022 um 17:08:38 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 7:17:43 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

What we miss today are "visionaries",

Nope. We do not miss visionaries at all.
We just ignore them and disparage them.

Says the one who loves Celibidache...
Do you ignore and disparage him too?

I do not "love" Celibidache or anyone else.

I think what I mean with visionaries were
people with their own vision about works.
(I should have never used this term, as it
is meaningless the way I used it.)

One wonders if you are thinking in German
and translating into English.

I think calling Celibidache (even Pletnev
though I don't like him) a visionary would
be appropriate.

Yep. No disagreement here.

So I again don't get where you are going...

One deosn't have to -- unless one is building
a dossier.

One needs to look no farther than this ng,
e.g. seeing how most of this audience
treated HJ Lim, Kyuhee Park Or Tomomi
Nishimoto.

;D I can't believe you are being serious.

Why don't you read the record of this ng?

I would also never describe Toscanini as
a "visionary". He was a pedantic military
band conductor, a strict literalist driven
by a metronome, utterly incapable of
the slightest trace of expression.

Yes, I agree with your description about his
music. And I should have not used "visionary"
in this context.

Thank you!

What I was more on about is, that music is
not just about fun, dan - and I would love
some more strictness in teaching back ;)

Did I ever say music was about "fun"? I used
the word "expression", not "fun".

You really need to grow up one day.

Not at all. I am fine the way I am.

And this is precisely why we don't need
more of HJ Lim type pianists.

This is completely disgusting, and proves
my points exactly. Sviatoslav Richter plays
a WTC that sounds from beginning to end
as a collection of short funeral marches,
and people call him a genius for this (I
did this too when I was younger, which
indeed proves I grew up). HJ Lim plays
a WTC that is full of imaginatio, color,
touch, texture and expression, and
pompous gasbags like you, Herman,
Melmoth and others disparage her.

You proved my points exactly.

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 24. November 2022 um 00:57:38 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 11:02:15 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 23. November 2022 um 17:08:38 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 7:17:43 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

What we miss today are "visionaries",

Nope. We do not miss visionaries at all.
We just ignore them and disparage them.

Says the one who loves Celibidache...
Do you ignore and disparage him too?

I do not "love" Celibidache or anyone else.

Dan, no reason to be picky about the word I used, it is very easy to see what point I was making here.

I think what I mean with visionaries were
people with their own vision about works.
(I should have never used this term, as it
is meaningless the way I used it.)

One wonders if you are thinking in German
and translating into English.

One wonders if you are thinking at all...

I think calling Celibidache (even Pletnev
though I don't like him) a visionary would
be appropriate.

Yep. No disagreement here.

So we in fact need (more) visionaries, eh?

So I again don't get where you are going...

One deosn't have to -- unless one is building
a dossier.

One needs to look no farther than this ng,
e.g. seeing how most of this audience
treated HJ Lim, Kyuhee Park Or Tomomi
Nishimoto.

;D I can't believe you are being serious.

Why don't you read the record of this ng?

I would also never describe Toscanini as
a "visionary". He was a pedantic military
band conductor, a strict literalist driven
by a metronome, utterly incapable of
the slightest trace of expression.

Yes, I agree with your description about his
music. And I should have not used "visionary"
in this context.

Thank you!

What I was more on about is, that music is
not just about fun, dan - and I would love
some more strictness in teaching back ;)

Did I ever say music was about "fun"? I used
the word "expression", not "fun".

You really need to grow up one day.

Not at all. I am fine the way I am.

Yeah right... just like the antisemites on this ng think they are fine the way they are...

Dan, you are pretty much insane for wanting or having wanted a mandatory vaccination (maybe you should move to China?) amongst other stuff.

I think that you have some serious mental issues (but this seems to be the norm on this ng), but I acknowledge that you ahve a funny and charming side.

But I can't deal with your idiocy anymore tbh ;D

And this is precisely why we don't need
more of HJ Lim type pianists.

This is completely disgusting, and proves
my points exactly. Sviatoslav Richter plays
a WTC that sounds from beginning to end
as a collection of short funeral marches,
and people call him a genius for this (I
did this too when I was younger, which
indeed proves I grew up). HJ Lim plays
a WTC that is full of imaginatio, color,
touch, texture and expression, and
pompous gasbags like you, Herman,
Melmoth and others disparage her.

You proved my points exactly.

dk

My dear brainwashed friend, calm down for a second and just try to understand where I am coming from ;D

Let me disparage her, just like you disparage other pianists. I don't like her palying, that doesn't make me disgusting, but if you think it does, that's fine.

What makes you disgusting is that you want to force people to get vaccinated... think about that for a second, will ya? You are pretty much fucked in your head for wanting things like this.

Learn from the Dreyfus affair: Don't sacrifice the individual for the collective!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 27. November 2022 um 09:03:22 UTC+1:

Learn from the Dreyfus affair: Don't sacrifice the individual for the collective!

There is no reason (in the context of covid) to vaccinate children (and even many adults). It's fucking insane that a paranoid guy like you wants to decide about the vaccination of other people's children... how about you let the parents decide for
themselves what's best for their children in regards to covid?

You are fucking insane. And in hindsight I am not sure anymore if you are in any way charming or funny or just completely fucked in the head.

Anyway, best wishes!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 12:19:49 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 27. November 2022 um 09:03:22 UTC+1:

Learn from the Dreyfus affair: Don't
sacrifice the individual for the collective!

There is no reason (in the context of covid)
to vaccinate children (and even many adults).
It's fucking insane that a paranoid guy like you
wants to decide about the vaccination of other
people's children... how about you let the parents
decide for themselves what's best for their children
in regards to covid?

You are fucking insane. And in hindsight I am not
sure anymore if you are in any way charming or
funny or just completely fucked in the head.

You replied to your own post and
called yourself "fucking insane".

Not to mention you brought up
COVID in a Toscanini thread.

It does all add up, doesn't it? ;-)

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

The two of you should just get a room.
If that's too expensive, maybe one-on-one emailing would do the job?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Sonntag, 27. November 2022 um 11:11:21 UTC+1:

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 12:19:49 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 27. November 2022 um 09:03:22 UTC+1:

Learn from the Dreyfus affair: Don't
sacrifice the individual for the collective!

There is no reason (in the context of covid)
to vaccinate children (and even many adults).
It's fucking insane that a paranoid guy like you
wants to decide about the vaccination of other
people's children... how about you let the parents
decide for themselves what's best for their children
in regards to covid?

You are fucking insane. And in hindsight I am not
sure anymore if you are in any way charming or
funny or just completely fucked in the head.

You replied to your own post and
called yourself "fucking insane".

Very funny...

Not to mention you brought up
COVID in a Toscanini thread.

It does all add up, doesn't it? ;-)

dk

Non sequitur.

The only thing that adds up is that you are unable to admit that you are paranoid about covid (and other stuff) and that the policies you promoted were inhumane. You can't even engage rationally in this discussion.

You are a brainfucked imbecile.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Herman schrieb am Sonntag, 27. November 2022 um 11:23:07 UTC+1:

The two of you should just get a room.
If that's too expensive, maybe one-on-one emailing would do the job?

You should just get yourself checked into a mental asylum - not for yourself primarily, but for your daughter.

I just hope her mother isn't as narcissistic and brainwashed as you are.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Herman schrieb am Sonntag, 27. November 2022 um 11:23:07 UTC+1:

The two of you should just get a room.
If that's too expensive, maybe one-on-one emailing would do the job?

You should just get yourself checked into a mental asylum - not for yourself primarily, but for your daughter.

If that's too expensive, I think it would be enough if you just your minimise contact with her.

I just hope her mother isn't as narcissistic and brainwashed as you are.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 27. November 2022 um 11:52:41 UTC+1:

Non sequitur.

The only thing that adds up is that you are unable to admit that you are paranoid about covid (and other stuff) and that the policies you promoted were inhumane. You can't even engage rationally in this discussion.

You are a brainfucked imbecile.

I should add: That in general it's unreasonable to expect paranoid guys (like you) to be receptive for reason (as in: realizing how paranoid they are). Similarly to how you can't reason with the antisemites on this board. But it's worth a try nonetheless
- I think it is humane to do so. Nevertheless, in the end, one has to look reality in the eye: You can't be reasoned with.

Adios.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)