Seems we have a new newsgroup here. Lately it consists mostly of insulting each other. It's starting to get comical - there were times when it irritated me but I'm past that, I hope. It's more like a spectator sport these days. Maybe we should judge itmore on creativity, colour and entertainment value than on content, which is mostly zero.
Seems we have a new newsgroup here. Lately it consists mostly of insulting each other. It's starting to get comical - there were times when it irritated me but I'm past that, I hope. It's more like a spectator sport these days. Maybe we should judge itmore on creativity, colour and entertainment value than on content, which is mostly zero.
Andy Evans schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 16:21:18 UTC+1:it more on creativity, colour and entertainment value than on content, which is mostly zero.
Seems we have a new newsgroup here. Lately it consists mostly of insulting each other. It's starting to get comical - there were times when it irritated me but I'm past that, I hope. It's more like a spectator sport these days. Maybe we should judge
Andy imo you are an antisemite, this is not meant as an insult, it is my honest opinion about you, after listening to you talk about israel.
Op dinsdag 8 november 2022 om 16:28:35 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
Andy imo you are an antisemite, this is not meant as an insult, it is my honest opinion about you, after listening to you talk about israel.There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
Henk
Andy imo you are an antisemite, this is not meant as an insult, it is my honest opinion about you, after listening to you talk about israel.
Op dinsdag 8 november 2022 om 16:28:35 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
Andy imo you are an antisemite, this is not meant as an insult, it is my honest opinion about you, after listening to you talk about israel.There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
Henk
Op dinsdag 8 november 2022 om 16:28:35 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
Andy imo you are an antisemite, this is not meant as an insult, it is my honest opinion about you, after listening to you talk about israel.There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
Henk
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 4:46:23 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
HenkUnfortunately I have no views on Israel / Palestine, however, I have made the anti-semite test on the basis of failing to mention Heifetz sufficiently often.
I am just being truthful.
Op dinsdag 8 november 2022 om 17:41:23 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
I am just being truthful.I believe that, and appreciate it! That doesn't imply that I accept your definition of antisemitism, of course.
Henk
Op dinsdag 8 november 2022 om 17:41:23 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
I am just being truthful.I believe that, and appreciate it! That doesn't imply that I accept your definition of antisemitism, of course.
Henk
The reason why I'm not proffering any views on Israel / Palestine
is because it's clearly an insolubly complex matter and I cannot
help but shake my head at people who at great distance profess to
know all about it and how things should be done.
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 16:57:16 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 4:46:23 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
That you have no views on Israel / Palestine shows exactly what is wrong in the educational system of Europe and the West (besides Israel) in general. And it also shows a lack of effort on your side in educating yourself as well.HenkUnfortunately I have no views on Israel / Palestine, however, I have made the anti-semite test on the basis of failing to mention Heifetz sufficiently often.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:13:04 PM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 16:57:16 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 4:46:23 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
That you have no views on Israel / Palestine shows exactly what is wrong in the educational system of Europe and the West (besides Israel) in general. And it also shows a lack of effort on your side in educating yourself as well.HenkUnfortunately I have no views on Israel / Palestine, however, I have made the anti-semite test on the basis of failing to mention Heifetz sufficiently often.
Most people would say I am ridiculously overeducated, and I'm kind of puzzled at your situating the 'wrong' education in 'Europe and the West'. One starts to wonder where the education is systematically better.
The reason why I'm not proffering any views on Israel / Palestine is because it's clearly an insolubly complex matter and I cannot help but shake my head at people who at great distance profess to know all about it and how things should be done.
In article <89699071-4d04-4654...@googlegroups.com>,
Herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
The reason why I'm not proffering any views on Israel / PalestineMore to the point for me, if I wanted to discuss this topic, I would
is because it's clearly an insolubly complex matter and I cannot
help but shake my head at people who at great distance profess to
know all about it and how things should be done.
do so where it is *on topic* and morever, where people with actual
knowledge of the subject participate.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:13:04 PM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 16:57:16 UTC+1:Most people would say I am ridiculously overeducated, and I'm kind of puzzled at your situating the 'wrong' education in 'Europe and the West'. One starts to wonder where the education is systematically better.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 4:46:23 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote: >>>>That you have no views on Israel / Palestine shows exactly what is wrong in the educational system of Europe and the West (besides Israel) in general. And it also shows a lack of effort on your side in educating yourself as well.
There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.Unfortunately I have no views on Israel / Palestine, however, I have made the anti-semite test on the basis of failing to mention Heifetz sufficiently often.
Henk
The reason why I'm not proffering any views on Israel / Palestine is because it's clearly an insolubly complex matter
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:13:04 PM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 16:57:16 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 4:46:23 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
That you have no views on Israel / Palestine shows exactly what is wrong in the educational system of Europe and the West (besides Israel) in general. And it also shows a lack of effort on your side in educating yourself as well.HenkUnfortunately I have no views on Israel / Palestine, however, I have made the anti-semite test on the basis of failing to mention Heifetz sufficiently often.
Most people would say I am ridiculously overeducated, and I'm kind of puzzled at your situating the 'wrong' education in 'Europe and the West'. One starts to wonder where the education is systematically better.
The reason why I'm not proffering any views on Israel / Palestine is because it's clearly an insolubly complex matter and I cannot help but shake my head at people who at great distance profess to know all about it and how things should be done.
On 11/8/2022 1:33 PM, Herman wrote:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:13:04 PM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:Yes, but only at the present time. The matter will be resolved eventually. I predict something along the lines of the Saudi proposal I mentioned before. Saying that it is complex does you credit.
Herman schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 16:57:16 UTC+1:Most people would say I am ridiculously overeducated, and I'm kind of puzzled at your situating the 'wrong' education in 'Europe and the West'. One starts to wonder where the education is systematically better.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 4:46:23 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:That you have no views on Israel / Palestine shows exactly what is wrong in the educational system of Europe and the West (besides Israel) in general. And it also shows a lack of effort on your side in educating yourself as well.
Unfortunately I have no views on Israel / Palestine, however, I have made the anti-semite test on the basis of failing to mention Heifetz sufficiently often.
There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
Henk
The reason why I'm not proffering any views on Israel / Palestine is because it's clearly an insolubly complex matter
Even the esteemed NYT does this all the time.
Most people would say I am ridiculously overeducated,
Dan is a higher quality of insult. Like his musical tastes,
they have more of an improvisational and creative quality.
Seems we have a new newsgroup here. Lately it consists mostly of
insulting each other. It's starting to get comical - there were times
when it irritated me but I'm past that, I hope. It's more like a spectator sport these days. Maybe we should judge it more on creativity, colour
and entertainment value than on content, which is mostly zero.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 11:21:02 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
Even the esteemed NYT does this all the time.
"Esteemed NYT" ?!? ROTFL !!!
dk
On 11/8/2022 2:28 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 11:21:02 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
Even the esteemed NYT does this all the time.
"Esteemed NYT" ?!? ROTFL !!!
I meant it sarcastically.
But come to think of it, it
is esteemed by many.
I miss the days when there were threads called « fuck Hatto fraud Tom Golden Shower Deacon of Canada » and « Fuck Tom Ass Cumrag Deacon » « Deacon is really a woman »
Incidentally, c*mr*g could be misheard as
'Cymraeg', which means the Welsh Language
in the Welsh language. You don't want to get
beaten up at Cardiff Arms Park, do you now,
diw, diw.
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topic
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topicMaybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dk
In article <e4ae193d-7ed8-4142...@googlegroups.com>,
Dan Koren <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
And we don't need any more OT threads
about social, economic and >political topics.
A rare moment of complete agreement for me....
On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 15:24:06 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topic
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
Maybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
There are two means of refuge from
the misery of life — music and cats.
Albert Schweitzer
He forgot dogs.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 8:36:27 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 15:24:06 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topic
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
Maybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
There are two means of refuge from
the misery of life — music and cats.
Albert Schweitzer
He forgot dogs.Nope. He OMITTED dogs! ;-)
On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 15:24:06 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
Maybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topic
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dk
There are two means of refuge from the misery of life — music and cats.
On 2022-11-08 9:36 p.m., raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 15:24:06 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
Maybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topic
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dk
There are two means of refuge from the misery of life — music and cats.
until they piss on your front door!
And we don't need any more OT threads about social, economic and
political topics.
On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 15:49:48 UTC+11, Graham wrote:
On 2022-11-08 9:36 p.m., raymond....gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 15:24:06 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topic
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
Maybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
There are two means of refuge from
the misery of life — music and cats.
until they piss on your front door!
Some people don't deserve dogs.
Aw, you guys are too nice to me. It looks like if I
want to be insulted I'll have to talk to my wife!
I promise not to start any OT threads. I'm sure
I'll find other ways to annoy people...
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topicMaybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dk
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topicMaybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dk
I am definitely out for good now. All the best wishes to y'all ;D
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 05:24:06 UTC+1:much more threads about political topics, and much more so people open minded enough to educate themselves about these matters.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topicMaybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dkWith Fetterman winning in PA (and yes, while Oz is an Idiot, it's still a wonder why anyone would vote for Fetterman) and antizionist AOC winning in NY amongst other stuff, "we" (or rather you guys, since I'm out and know enough already) actually need
I don't even want to know who you voted for in Cali ;)children on hormones that are not meant for their bodies (and which were made for people who got their ovaries or prostata removed for heath reasons), they put children on hormone blockers (which are being used on sex offenders) etc.
JFYI: Dems in Cali allow the mutilation of children ("transgender-child health care"). They allow teenage girls to get their tits cut off (What happened to the idea of protecting children? What happened to the idea of not doing harm?), they put
A child is not able to give informed consent on any of this. Yet it is allowed in Cali. A child does not know what a "male" and "female", they don't know what is good for them or not. A child does not understand what it means to be put on hormones thatare not meant for their body or to be put on hormone blockers - a child does not understand the consequences behind these procedures.
There are so many victims, and the dems are turning a blind eye on this (or calling people who critise this practice "transphobes"), just as this ng does, just as you do. I have talked to victims of this barbarity, you will hear young women cryingabout the realization that they won't be able to breastfeed their children (because some lunatic doctor thought it was legitimate to cut off their healthy tits) because of "transgender health care", you will hear young men crying because their dicks
A child is not able to give consent to sex, just as a child is not able to give consent about hormone-treatment or getting their tits cut off (this is the reason why Transgender-Ideology is linked with Paedophilia).head out of your ass in regards to politics and educate yourself more.
You take the word "civilisation" in your mouth, yet all you are concerned about seems to be music and yourself (not as much as Herman ofc)... I have gotten a lot from you in regards to music, and I am deeply thankful for this... but please, get your
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 05:24:06 UTC+1:much more threads about political topics, and much more so people open minded enough to educate themselves about these matters.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topicMaybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dkWith Fetterman winning in PA (and yes, while Oz is an Idiot, it's still a wonder why anyone would vote for Fetterman) and antizionist AOC winning in NY amongst other stuff, "we" (or rather you guys, since I'm out and know enough already) actually need
I don't even want to know who you voted for in Cali ;)
JFYI: Dems in Cali allow the mutilation of children ("transgender-child health care").
A child is not able to give informed consent on any of this. Yet it is allowed in Cali. A child does not know what a "male" and "female", they don't know what is good for them or not. A child does not understand what it means to be put on hormones thatare not meant for their body or to be put on hormone blockers - a child does not understand the consequences behind these procedures.
There are so many victims, and the dems are turning a blind eye on this (or calling people who critise this practice "transphobes"), just as this ng does, just as you do. I have talked to victims of this barbarity, you will hear young women cryingabout the realization that they won't be able to breastfeed their children (because some lunatic doctor thought it was legitimate to cut off their healthy tits) because of "transgender health care", you will hear young men crying because their dicks
A child is not able to give consent to sex, just as a child is not able to give consent about hormone-treatment or getting their tits cut off (this is the reason why Transgender-Ideology is linked with Paedophilia).head out of your ass in regards to politics and educate yourself more.
You take the word "civilisation" in your mouth, yet all you are concerned about seems to be music and yourself (not as much as Herman ofc)... I have gotten a lot from you in regards to music, and I am deeply thankful for this... but please, get your
This newsgroup is like a parallel universe for me. Only Dan kept me coming back, and I really didn't realize what a bunch of weirdos were on this platform before I started posting.
Dan always made me laugh, and Dan's thoughts and recommendations about music have been a pleasure to read. I thank you for this Dan ;)
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:25:50 AM UTC+1, Marc S wrote:
This newsgroup is like a parallel universe for me. Only Dan kept me coming back, and I really didn't realize what a bunch of weirdos were on this platform before I started posting.
Dan always made me laugh, and Dan's thoughts and recommendations about music have been a pleasure to read. I thank you for this Dan ;)Just get a room, the two of you. You're so pathetically in lurv with this man...
On that note there are those who consider the Jewish practice of severing infant males’ foreskin as mutilation of babies. I remember Christopher Hitchens mentioning that frequently. What do you say to that?got their ovaries or prostata removed for heath reasons), they put children on hormone blockers (which are being used on sex offenders) etc.
They allow teenage girls to get their tits cut off (What happened to the idea of protecting children? What happened to the idea of not doing harm?), they put children on hormones that are not meant for their bodies (and which were made for people who
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 4:29:56 AM UTC-5, Marc S wrote:need much more threads about political topics, and much more so people open minded enough to educate themselves about these matters.
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 05:24:06 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topicMaybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dkWith Fetterman winning in PA (and yes, while Oz is an Idiot, it's still a wonder why anyone would vote for Fetterman) and antizionist AOC winning in NY amongst other stuff, "we" (or rather you guys, since I'm out and know enough already) actually
I don't even want to know who you voted for in Cali ;)
JFYI: Dems in Cali allow the mutilation of children ("transgender-child health care").On that note there are those who consider the Jewish practice of severing infant males’ foreskin as mutilation of babies. I remember Christopher Hitchens mentioning that frequently. What do you say to that?
Op 2022-11-09 om 11:23 schreef Marc S:need much more threads about political topics, and much more so people open minded enough to educate themselves about these matters.
JohnGavin schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 11:03:31 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 4:29:56 AM UTC-5, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 05:24:06 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote: >>>>>With Fetterman winning in PA (and yes, while Oz is an Idiot, it's still a wonder why anyone would vote for Fetterman) and antizionist AOC winning in NY amongst other stuff, "we" (or rather you guys, since I'm out and know enough already) actually
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topicMaybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dk
On that note there are those who consider the Jewish practice of severing infant males’ foreskin as mutilation of babies. I remember Christopher Hitchens mentioning that frequently. What do you say to that?
I don't even want to know who you voted for in Cali ;)
JFYI: Dems in Cali allow the mutilation of children ("transgender-child health care").
How about we stay on topic?HA HA HA HA HA. On Topic? HA HA HA HA HA.
What a troll!
Op 2022-11-09 om 11:23 schreef Marc S:need much more threads about political topics, and much more so people open minded enough to educate themselves about these matters.
JohnGavin schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 11:03:31 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 4:29:56 AM UTC-5, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 05:24:06 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote: >>>>>With Fetterman winning in PA (and yes, while Oz is an Idiot, it's still a wonder why anyone would vote for Fetterman) and antizionist AOC winning in NY amongst other stuff, "we" (or rather you guys, since I'm out and know enough already) actually
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topicMaybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dk
On that note there are those who consider the Jewish practice of severing infant males’ foreskin as mutilation of babies. I remember Christopher Hitchens mentioning that frequently. What do you say to that?
I don't even want to know who you voted for in Cali ;)
JFYI: Dems in Cali allow the mutilation of children ("transgender-child health care").
How about we stay on topic?HA HA HA HA HA. On Topic? HA HA HA HA HA.
What a troll!
JohnGavin schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 11:03:31 UTC+1:need much more threads about political topics, and much more so people open minded enough to educate themselves about these matters.
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 4:29:56 AM UTC-5, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 05:24:06 UTC+1: >>>> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
With Fetterman winning in PA (and yes, while Oz is an Idiot, it's still a wonder why anyone would vote for Fetterman) and antizionist AOC winning in NY amongst other stuff, "we" (or rather you guys, since I'm out and know enough already) actuallyMaybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topic
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dk
On that note there are those who consider the Jewish practice of severing infant males’ foreskin as mutilation of babies. I remember Christopher Hitchens mentioning that frequently. What do you say to that?
I don't even want to know who you voted for in Cali ;)
JFYI: Dems in Cali allow the mutilation of children ("transgender-child health care").
How about we stay on topic?
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 5:24:06 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
check the stats or just the board history.
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
Most OT threads are initiated by the feller who says the above.
JohnGavin schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 11:03:31 UTC+1:got their ovaries or prostata removed for heath reasons), they put children on hormone blockers (which are being used on sex offenders) etc.
On that note there are those who consider the Jewish practice of severing infant males’ foreskin as mutilation of babies. I remember Christopher Hitchens mentioning that frequently. What do you say to that?
They allow teenage girls to get their tits cut off (What happened to the idea of protecting children? What happened to the idea of not doing harm?), they put children on hormones that are not meant for their bodies (and which were made for people who
I think Hitchens was a great guy btw. It's just sad that he is gone.
On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 15:28:35 UTC, Marc S wrote:judge it more on creativity, colour and entertainment value than on content, which is mostly zero.
Andy Evans schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 16:21:18 UTC+1:
Seems we have a new newsgroup here. Lately it consists mostly of insulting each other. It's starting to get comical - there were times when it irritated me but I'm past that, I hope. It's more like a spectator sport these days. Maybe we should
Andy imo you are an antisemite, this is not meant as an insult, it is my honest opinion about you, after listening to you talk about israel.
My rating of Marc S's insults: 10%.
Content is zero, of course, so no marks for that. Marks for style.....hmm. Well following on from my musical tastes I would be expecting charm, elegance and a singing line. None of that either. So I've given a 10% just for being so bizarre.
Dan is a higher quality of insult. Like his musical tastes, they have more of an improvisational and creative quality. I'd put his insults in the lead so far.
Op dinsdag 8 november 2022 om 16:28:35 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
Andy imo you are an antisemite, this is not meant as an insult, it is my honest opinion about you, after listening to you talk about israel.
There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
hvt...@xs4all.nl schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 16:46:23 UTC+1:
Op dinsdag 8 november 2022 om 16:28:35 UTC+1 schreef Marc S:
Andy imo you are an antisemite, this is not meant as an insult, it is my honest opinion about you, after listening to you talk about israel.There is a German (?) story about a boy crying 'wolf' too often ... But if that's your hobby, be free to call me an anti-semite too. I agree with Andy's views on Israel.
Henk
And yes, since you propagate amnesty and seem to share their mindset etc... you carry antisemitic ideas yourself. You just don't know why, because you never undertook any serious effort to understand what antisemitism is.
I am just being truthful.
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 9. November 2022 um 05:24:06 UTC+1:political topics, and people with an open mind to educate themselves about these matters. I don't even want to know who you voted for in cali ;) JFYI: Dems in Cali allow the mutilation of children (as I have already pointed out in another thread), modern
On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:04:37 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topicMaybe you should get rid of some of those opinions.
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
This forum is about classical music and recordings.
We don't need any more politicians and preachers.
And we don't need any more OT threads about
social, economic and political topics.
dk
With Fetterman winning in PA (and yes, while Oz is an Idiot, it's still a wonder why anyone would vote for Fetterman) and Antizionist AOC winning in NY amongst other stuff, "we" (or rather you guys, as I'm out) actually need much more threads about
A child cannot decide about "transsexuality", a child does not understand what it means to be put on hormones or what it means to get their tits cut off. There are so many victims, and the dems are turning a blind eye on this, just as this ng does,just as you do. I have talked to victims of this barbarity, you will hear young women crying because they now realize they aren't able to breastfeed their kids etc, young men crying because their dick stopped growing and are sterilized now. As a child
For perspective: In Cali it is allowed for girls to get their tits cut off, but you have to be an adult to drink alcohol or get a tattoo orba breast augmentation.
I feel left out - since I haven't really been insulted yet - so I
thought I would wade into this topic. I do realize that the subject of Israel, Antisemitism, and Apartheid is serious, so will leave any
attempts at humor aside for the moment.
What do you call a nation that:
- Forces people to stand in long lines for hours while travelling in
their own country? Requires a difficult to obtain document to travel?
- Indiscriminately bombs populated areas and infrastructure causing
civilian casualties?
- Systematically discriminates against people who lived on its land for generations?
- During the war of independence, massacred entire villages?
- Based on a dubious historical theory lays claim to a land?
Israel?? No...
For the first point, I'm referring to the USA. Anyone who has flown has
had to wait on line, get searched, remove their shoes, etc. And starting soon in the USA a special document will be required to fly. While this obviously doesn't quite compare to how Palestinian workers are treated
when commuting from the West Bank to Israel, consider that the TSA
policies are a reaction to an incident from 20 years ago - and in Israel dozens of people have been killed this year alone.
About the indiscriminate bombing, you probably realize by now I'm
referring to World War II - the firebombing by the British of Dresden,
the Dambusters that flooded huge areas, etc. Sure, that was years ago,
but many civilians were bombed by the USA in Afghanistan just recently.
As to the point about discrimination, I could point to the USA treatment
of Native Americans - or to Australia, where the government only
recently apologized for their neglect of the aboriginals - in 2008.
I wouldn't ever ignore the Dutch, and everyone of course remembers the Rawagede massacre when the Dutch army executed 431 villagers on one day. This was in 1947 during the Indonesian War of Independence - the same timeframe during which fighters in Palestine are claimed to have
attacked Arab towns.
And finally, some might debate the value of the Jew's biblical claim to
the land - but it is something at least. When the settlers in the USA displaced the Natives or when the Europeans appropriated land in
Australia their only claim was "racial superiority".
Despite all this the USA, UK, Australia, and the Netherlands are not routinely labelled "Terrorist" states.
Now I know very well that this is what they call "Whataboutism", the
defense that others do the same misbehavior or worse - and it is. And I absolutely agree that when the Israelis do something wrong they should
be held fully accountable.
But it seems that Israel is held to a higher standard than, for example, India in Kashmir
which is a similar situation. There is very little coverage of the
Indian Army's harsh treatment and India is not being labelled "worse
than Nazis".
There is a word for the treatment of one group worse than others - "prejudice". And since it is relatively common, there is another word specifically about prejudice towards Jews.
I'm not accusing anyone here of Antisemitism. As Frank so ably put it, prejudice is a continuum - ranging from weak assumptions about the
general characteristics of a group, to disdain for individuals, and
reaching a desire to harm members of the group.
I haven't seem any evidence that anyone in RMCR is anywhere on the Antisemitism spectrum. I suspect that what might be happening is that
some folks could be influenced by the inflammatory coverage of incidents
in Israel by those who are prejudiced.
Personally I have no attachment to Israel or any special interest or knowledge. I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topic
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
As someone mentioned RMCR is not the most useful forum for a discussion
of these complex issues - and I'd rather be talking about recordings.
But folks here are intelligent and thoughtful and I'd welcome further discussion in an OT thread - as Frank has suggested, most useful would
be addressing of specific incidents. Or feel free to ignore - or insult me!
Not sure if this is universally accepted or if I got it from one source,
but the way I understand it, the division of allied bombing into the Americans by day and British by night stems from American
squeamishness at killing civilians. The British, being on the
receiving end of indiscriminate civilian slaughter had no problem
killing German civilians. It may have been viewed as a strategic
necessity to destroy the German will to fight. Before the development
of radar, the Americans didn't even attack their targets when there
was cloud cover, preferring to drop the bombs harmlessly over the
Channel. My father was a B-17 navigator trained in radar who flew
7 missions over Germany in the spring of 1945.
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 2:04:37 PM UTC+11, Notsure01 wrote:enough, but much less than the grossly inflated figure cited in some commentaries.
I feel left out - since I haven't really been insulted yet - so I
thought I would wade into this topic. I do realize that the subject of
Israel, Antisemitism, and Apartheid is serious, so will leave any
attempts at humor aside for the moment.
What do you call a nation that:
- Forces people to stand in long lines for hours while travelling in
their own country? Requires a difficult to obtain document to travel?
- Indiscriminately bombs populated areas and infrastructure causing
civilian casualties?
- Systematically discriminates against people who lived on its land for
generations?
- During the war of independence, massacred entire villages?
- Based on a dubious historical theory lays claim to a land?
Israel?? No...
For the first point, I'm referring to the USA. Anyone who has flown has
had to wait on line, get searched, remove their shoes, etc. And starting
soon in the USA a special document will be required to fly. While this
obviously doesn't quite compare to how Palestinian workers are treated
when commuting from the West Bank to Israel, consider that the TSA
policies are a reaction to an incident from 20 years ago - and in Israel
dozens of people have been killed this year alone.
About the indiscriminate bombing, you probably realize by now I'm
referring to World War II - the firebombing by the British of Dresden,
the Dambusters that flooded huge areas, etc. Sure, that was years ago,
but many civilians were bombed by the USA in Afghanistan just recently.
As to the point about discrimination, I could point to the USA treatment
of Native Americans - or to Australia, where the government only
recently apologized for their neglect of the aboriginals - in 2008.
I wouldn't ever ignore the Dutch, and everyone of course remembers the
Rawagede massacre when the Dutch army executed 431 villagers on one day.
This was in 1947 during the Indonesian War of Independence - the same
timeframe during which fighters in Palestine are claimed to have
attacked Arab towns.
And finally, some might debate the value of the Jew's biblical claim to
the land - but it is something at least. When the settlers in the USA
displaced the Natives or when the Europeans appropriated land in
Australia their only claim was "racial superiority".
Despite all this the USA, UK, Australia, and the Netherlands are not
routinely labelled "Terrorist" states.
Now I know very well that this is what they call "Whataboutism", the
defense that others do the same misbehavior or worse - and it is. And I
absolutely agree that when the Israelis do something wrong they should
be held fully accountable.
But it seems that Israel is held to a higher standard than, for example,
India in Kashmir
which is a similar situation. There is very little coverage of the
Indian Army's harsh treatment and India is not being labelled "worse
than Nazis".
There is a word for the treatment of one group worse than others -
"prejudice". And since it is relatively common, there is another word
specifically about prejudice towards Jews.
I'm not accusing anyone here of Antisemitism. As Frank so ably put it,
prejudice is a continuum - ranging from weak assumptions about the
general characteristics of a group, to disdain for individuals, and
reaching a desire to harm members of the group.
I haven't seem any evidence that anyone in RMCR is anywhere on the
Antisemitism spectrum. I suspect that what might be happening is that
some folks could be influenced by the inflammatory coverage of incidents
in Israel by those who are prejudiced.
Personally I have no attachment to Israel or any special interest or
knowledge. I only weigh in because this seems to be a perennial topic
here, and because I have an opinion about everything!
As someone mentioned RMCR is not the most useful forum for a discussion
of these complex issues - and I'd rather be talking about recordings.
But folks here are intelligent and thoughtful and I'd welcome further
discussion in an OT thread - as Frank has suggested, most useful would
be addressing of specific incidents. Or feel free to ignore - or insult me!
A couple of comments which don't really affect your general argument:
(a) the bombing of Dresden was a joint RAF / USAAF operation in response to Stalin's request for more Allied support on the Eastern front. The Americans bombed by day and the British by night. Total casualties amounted to about 25,000 which is bad
(b) the Apology to indigenous Australians by the Rudd federal government was in response to specific policies imposed by State governments concerning the removal of indigenous children from their families and their being sent either to children's homesor to foster parents, for the same reasons that white children were also sent to homes or to foster parents at that time. In both cases, many found it a traumatic experience but many found that it gave them much better prospects in life than if they had
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
On 11/9/2022 5:14 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:02 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
Not sure if this is universally accepted or if I got it from one source, >> but the way I understand it, the division of allied bombing into the
Americans by day and British by night stems from American
squeamishness at killing civilians. The British, being on the
receiving end of indiscriminate civilian slaughter had no problem
killing German civilians. It may have been viewed as a strategic
necessity to destroy the German will to fight. Before the development
of radar, the Americans didn't even attack their targets when there
was cloud cover, preferring to drop the bombs harmlessly over the
Channel. My father was a B-17 navigator trained in radar who flew
7 missions over Germany in the spring of 1945.
I doubt the day vs. night division of tasks had anything to do with protecting civilian lives. It was probably caused by differences in
the aircraft used (B-17/24 vs. Lancaster/Halifax), equipment (e.g. bombsights), and crew training. Also remember the Brits and the
RAF were ahead of the US in radar development and use.
If I can find my source(s) I will provide them. I have a bunch of
books on the European air war. The American H2x radar system
was developed from the British system, but both were introduced
in combat at about the same time. Late 1943 I think. It certainly
was not the case that the British bombed at night because their
radar was better.
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:02 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
Not sure if this is universally accepted or if I got it from one source,
but the way I understand it, the division of allied bombing into the
Americans by day and British by night stems from American
squeamishness at killing civilians. The British, being on the
receiving end of indiscriminate civilian slaughter had no problem
killing German civilians. It may have been viewed as a strategic
necessity to destroy the German will to fight. Before the development
of radar, the Americans didn't even attack their targets when there
was cloud cover, preferring to drop the bombs harmlessly over the
Channel. My father was a B-17 navigator trained in radar who flew
7 missions over Germany in the spring of 1945.
I doubt the day vs. night division of tasks had anything to do with protecting civilian lives. It was probably caused by differences in
the aircraft used (B-17/24 vs. Lancaster/Halifax), equipment (e.g. bombsights), and crew training. Also remember the Brits and the
RAF were ahead of the US in radar development and use.
dk
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 2:04:37 PM UTC+11, Notsure01 wrote:
I feel left out - since I haven't really been insulted yet - so I
thought I would wade into this topic. I do realize that the subject of
Israel, Antisemitism, and Apartheid is serious, so will leave any
attempts at humor aside for the moment.
I'm fine with no longer discussing this issue - but if we do, can
it be done in a less inflammatory way?
I'm fine with no longer discussing this issue - but if
we do, can it be done in a less inflammatory way?
On 11/9/2022 5:14 PM, Dan Koren wrote:certainly was not the case that the British bombed at night because their radar was better.
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:38:02 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
Not sure if this is universally accepted or if I got it from one source, >> but the way I understand it, the division of allied bombing into the
Americans by day and British by night stems from American
squeamishness at killing civilians. The British, being on the
receiving end of indiscriminate civilian slaughter had no problem
killing German civilians. It may have been viewed as a strategic
necessity to destroy the German will to fight. Before the development
of radar, the Americans didn't even attack their targets when there
was cloud cover, preferring to drop the bombs harmlessly over the
Channel. My father was a B-17 navigator trained in radar who flew
7 missions over Germany in the spring of 1945.
I doubt the day vs. night division of tasks had anything to do with protecting civilian lives. It was probably caused by differences in
the aircraft used (B-17/24 vs. Lancaster/Halifax), equipment (e.g. bombsights), and crew training. Also remember the Brits and the
RAF were ahead of the US in radar development and use.
dkIf I can find my source(s) I will provide them. I have a bunch of books on the European air war. The American H2x radar system was developed from the British system, but both were introduced in combat at about the same time. Late 1943 I think. It
On 11/11/2022 12:32 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:fighters wouldn't stand a chance, and the use high-precision gunsights would allow them to bomb specific targets *by day* with comfort and ease."
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 8:36:04 PM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Correction:
"The USAAF had decided that if your aircraft flew in a sequence of close box formations at high altitude, with machine guns poking out of *mid-upper, mid-lower, nose and rear turrets*, not to mention gun ports at the side of the aircraft, the German
Andrew ClarkeAdditional correction. Gun sights are different than bomb sights.
Canberra
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 8:36:04 PM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote:fighters wouldn't stand a chance, and the use high-precision gunsights would allow them to bomb specific targets *by day* with comfort and ease."
Correction:
"The USAAF had decided that if your aircraft flew in a sequence of close box formations at high altitude, with machine guns poking out of *mid-upper, mid-lower, nose and rear turrets*, not to mention gun ports at the side of the aircraft, the German
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 5:22:34 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:fighters wouldn't stand a chance, and the use high-precision gunsights would allow them to bomb specific targets *by day* with comfort and ease."
On 11/11/2022 12:32 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 8:36:04 PM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote:
Correction:
"The USAAF had decided that if your aircraft flew in a sequence of close box formations at high altitude, with machine guns poking out of *mid-upper, mid-lower, nose and rear turrets*, not to mention gun ports at the side of the aircraft, the German
Additional correction. Gun sights are different than bomb sights.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm getting old ...
On 11/11/2022 1:38 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 5:22:34 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 11/11/2022 12:32 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 8:36:04 PM UTC+11, Andrew Clarke wrote: >>>>Additional correction. Gun sights are different than bomb sights.
Correction:
"The USAAF had decided that if your aircraft flew in a sequence of
close box formations at high altitude, with machine guns poking out
of *mid-upper, mid-lower, nose and rear turrets*, not to mention gun
ports at the side of the aircraft, the German fighters wouldn't
stand a chance, and the use high-precision gunsights would allow
them to bomb specific targets *by day* with comfort and ease."
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm getting old ...
Don't ever say that. People will believe you.
The Dambusters raid was a rare example of a night raid on a specific target. It wasn't an attempt to drown prisoners of war or German civilians, it was an attempt to close down large amounts of German industry by depriving them of water. It requiredthe development of a special bomb, the creation of a highly-trained squadron (617) and it involved flying in a dead-straight line 60 feet above the water with spotlights shining down from nose and tail so that the precise height could be measured - that'
On 2022-11-11 2:36 a.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
I went to a very small grammar school in the UK (160 pupils) and 2 of
The Dambusters raid was a rare example of a night raid on a specific
target. It wasn't an attempt to drown prisoners of war or German
civilians, it was an attempt to close down large amounts of German
industry by depriving them of water.
the teachers were involved in the Dambusters preparation. In the movie,
a model dam was made to illustrate the effect of proper placing of the explosive charges. Well, my Art master built that. My Geography master carried out meteorological research in the Pennines and around the
Ladybower Reservoir, where the Dambusters trained, to gain as much info
on conditions likely to be found around the German dams.
The remarkable thing about that raid was that the leader, Guy Gibson,
was only 25 years old.
On 11/11/22 3:16 PM, Graham wrote:
On 2022-11-11 2:36 a.m., Andrew Clarke wrote:
It's interesting to get all this detail on the Dambusters and DresdenI went to a very small grammar school in the UK (160 pupils) and 2 of
The Dambusters raid was a rare example of a night raid on a specific
target. It wasn't an attempt to drown prisoners of war or German
civilians, it was an attempt to close down large amounts of German
industry by depriving them of water.
the teachers were involved in the Dambusters preparation. In the movie,
a model dam was made to illustrate the effect of proper placing of the explosive charges. Well, my Art master built that. My Geography master carried out meteorological research in the Pennines and around the Ladybower Reservoir, where the Dambusters trained, to gain as much info
on conditions likely to be found around the German dams.
The remarkable thing about that raid was that the leader, Guy Gibson,
was only 25 years old.
attacks - my father was in the American Army during WW2 and I've heard
about many horrors of war. I only brought this up to imagine what
Amnesty International would say about those raids and the people
involved if they existed then?
It's great that they and other organizations are advocating for better behavior, but this has led to exaggerated characterization. It is just
as wrong to call Israel a "terrorist state" as it is to label folks who
are sincerely concerned about Palestinian suffering as "antisemitic".
I follow the British media and as Frank put it "Every Palestinian
accusation against israel is reported as a fact". Speaking of WW2, I'm
not sure if folks remember the alarming story from 30 years ago:
"Eisenhower deliberately starved German POWs" (https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/98/11/22/specials/ambrose-atrocities.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)
but this is the kind of thing that I see today.
I'm glad that our societies have progressed since WW2 and it is healthy
that pressure is being put on Israel for better behavior. My hope is
that if this continues to be a topic here that we all avoid insults and debate things respectfully...
On Saturday, 12 November 2022 at 09:13:52 UTC+11, Notsure01 wrote:
I'm glad that our societies have progressed since WW2 and it is healthy
that pressure is being put on Israel for better behavior. My hope is
that if this continues to be a topic here that we all avoid insults and
debate things respectfully...
Agree in general, but I respectfully must disagree about whether society "has progressed since WW2". In what ways has society progressed? And I agree that debate should be respectful, often a forlorn hope here at times.
Ray Hall, Taree
On 11/11/22 5:37 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, 12 November 2022 at 09:13:52 UTC+11, Notsure01 wrote:
I'm glad that our societies have progressed since WW2 and it is healthy >> that pressure is being put on Israel for better behavior. My hope is
that if this continues to be a topic here that we all avoid insults and >> debate things respectfully...
Agree in general, but I respectfully must disagree about whether society "has progressed since WW2". In what ways has society progressed? And I agree that debate should be respectful, often a forlorn hope here at times.
Ray Hall, TareeRay, thanks for agreeing with me - at least partially! Although I've
just started contributing (if that's the right word) to RMCR I've been following this group on-and-off for years. I've noticed that you have
come into more than your share of insults relating to this issue. That
is a shame since you are one of the several long suffering stalwarts of
this group that have contributed for - decades!
As to progress, attitudes seem to have changed over my lifetime where
people are more reluctant to voice their prejudices, and groups like
Amnesty International are not derided as "Do Gooders". I agree that many such groups can go too far and, like everyone, can be hypocritical
"virtue signalers" (to use a common insult).
I realize it is not reasonable to expect to change people's behavior -
but as Shaw said "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
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