why don't you just give it a break, instead of
going the Hurwitz route and go negative?
It looks like you've got five different
Emperor topics going now,
not the world's most interesting piece
of music,
and your obsessive behavior maybe
needs a little rest.
In your opinions ......Tchaikovsky No. 1 without question. He should have burned the manuscript!
Thanks!
dk
On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 9:33:12 PM UTC-7, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
In your opinions ......
Thanks!
Tchaikovsky No. 1 without question. He
should have burned the manuscript!
In your opinions ......
Thanks!
dk
Op dinsdag 1 november 2022 om 05:33:12 UTC+1 schreef dan....gmail.com:
In your opinions ......
Thanks!
dkIf only one: Busoni, he beats Reger.
Henk
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 2:59:57 PM UTC, hvt...xs4all.nl wrote:from Switzerland in 1968 with Stokey on the rostrum, nose firmly in the score and doubtless beating time with gritted teeth. I wonder if any other pianist has ever played this piece ...
Op dinsdag 1 november 2022 om 05:33:12 UTC+1 schreef dan....gmail.com:
In your opinions ......
Thanks!
dkIf only one: Busoni, he beats Reger.
HenkKurt Leimer's several piano concertos must be on the list. He was evidently immensely rich, so was able to pay the likes of Karajan, Ormandy and Stokowsk hefty fees to accompany him in his dreadful concertos. Here's a surviving TV broadcast of No. 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTKzpuQiWQo&t=87s
If only one: Busoni, he beats Reger.
Henk
Op dinsdag 1 november 2022 om 05:33:12 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
In your opinions ......
Thanks!
If only one: Busoni, he beats Reger.
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:59:57 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
If only one: Busoni, he beats Reger.
HenkI hate to ask, but have you actually heard the Reger a couple of times, or do you just go by Hurwitz' embarrassing YT rant against everything German?
I'm not saying the Reger concerto is easy listening, but it is a piece of amazing and sometimes intimidating beauty.
Op dinsdag 1 november 2022 om 17:47:16 UTC+1 schreef Herman:
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:59:57 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote: >>>
If only one: Busoni, he beats Reger.I hate to ask, but have you actually heard the Reger a couple of times, or do you just go by Hurwitz' embarrassing YT rant against everything German?
Henk
I'm not saying the Reger concerto is easy listening, but it is a piece of amazing and sometimes intimidating beauty.
Indeed, it's an offensive question. Why would I present someone else's opinion as my own - without reference?
It has been some time since I listened to Korstick's version. I'll try again, and let you know.
Henk
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:59:57 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
If only one: Busoni, he beats Reger.
I hate to ask, but have you actually heard the
Reger a couple of times, or do you just go by
Hurwitz' embarrassing YT rant against everything
German?
I'm not saying the Reger concerto is easy
listening, but it is a piece of amazing and
sometimes intimidating beauty.
Herman is continually accusing people of
espousing opinions which are not their
own, or reminding them that their opinions
are their opinions. Curious and Curiouser.
a single Jewish violinist, even though Jews
are quite prominent in the fiddling business.
His violin goddess is ... Isabelle Faust. OMG!
He is also obviously anti-Asian, and obviously
mysoginistic. His "brain" is the most rotten
wedge of holey Gouda in history.
dk
This would've been a good time for a dictionary, btw. The old ones
give "rabbies" as an alternate spelling of "rabbis" & NOT "rabies."
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 8:23:42 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:
This would've been a good time for a dictionary, btw. The old ones
give "rabbies" as an alternate spelling of "rabbis" & NOT "rabies."
At the time, Frank had commented on the spelling, obviously in vain.
Giving people and things 'funny' names is part of the pathology -
just visit an institution some time and you'll see.
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 7:18:00 PM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
He never mentioned
a single Jewish violinist, even though Jews
are quite prominent in the fiddling business.
His violin goddess is ... Isabelle Faust. OMG!
He is also obviously anti-Asian, and obviously
mysoginistic. His "brain" is the most rotten
wedge of holey Gouda in history.
dk
The word is 'misogynistic'. Not 'mysoginistic'.
Other people would get quite mad for being accused of anti-semitism and what have you, but of course it's just RMCR's crazy man who's always (I mean, pretty much every single day) getting into hysterical fights with people who just happen to thinkdifferently, as is their right.
It's a little odd to see the same guy who made fun of Berger's 'rabbies' infested brains recently now suddenly play the antisemitism card, and not very well.
Is it okay if I just find Hurwitz largely a bullshit artist who flaps his arms on youtube and reads the contents of multi cd boxes out loud to pass time? I had never given his ethnic heritage >much thought. That's your thing, with your "I hate theFrench haha" etc.
Isabelle Faust is a very good violinist (as I said when you were saying some stunningly ignorant things about her); that doesn't make her my 'violin goddess.' I'm not a teenager. Nor am I here to 'promote' artists. If I like something, I'm not sayingother should like it, too. We're all grownups here. Well, all minus one.
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 8:23:42 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:
This would've been a good time for a dictionary, btw. The old ones
give "rabbies" as an alternate spelling of "rabbis" & NOT "rabies."
At the time, Frank had commented on the spelling, obviously in vain.
Giving people and things 'funny' names is part of the pathology - just visit an institution some time and you'll see.
On 11/1/2022 3:28 PM, Herman wrote:
Giving people and things 'funny' names is
part of the pathology - just visit an institution
some time and you'll see.
At the time, I thought, and still do, that Dan
was making fun of Rabbis. I could be wrong.
It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (I
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to bias
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
So I would say that Dan's evidence about your
antisemitism is more persuasive (though not
conclusive) that yours about his.
It's a little odd to see the same guy who made fun of Berger's
'rabbies' infested brains recently now suddenly play the antisemitism
card, and not very well.
Giving people and things 'funny' names is part of the pathology -
just visit an institution some time and you'll see.
In article <5e15a292-bfef-464a...@googlegroups.com>,
Dan Koren <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
He seems to be pissed off by me and by you
and by DH more often than by anyone else
Um, Dan, you post more than anyone else.
Look no further. (Of course nothing can
explain the ongoing fascination with DH
here....)
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (II have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
He seems to be pissed off by me and by you and by DH more often
than by anyone else.
No one else is prevented from posting as much as they like -- so
what is your point?
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler
why don't you just give it a break, instead of going the Hurwitz route and go negative?
It looks like you've got five different Emperor topics going now, not the world's most interesting piece of music, and your obsessive behavior maybe needs a little rest.
If music listening becomes a quest for the best product rather
than listening for the pleasure of hearing music, it becomes a
never-ending source of dissatisfaction. One day you'll wake up
feeling negative about the recordings you once valued. That's how
it works if you're not careful.
I have noticed that DH has posted more YouTubes where
he delights in bashing certain artists and interpreters.
My advice - ignore these both on YouTube and here. If
music listening becomes a quest for the best product
rather than listening for the pleasure of hearing music,
it becomes a never-ending source of dissatisfaction.
One day you’ll wake up feeling negative about
the recordings you once valued.
That’s how it works if you’re not careful.
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:01:10 PM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
I have noticed that DH has posted more YouTubes whereHis constitutional right. Nothing wrong with it, whether
he delights in bashing certain artists and interpreters.
one agrees with his opinions or not.
My advice - ignore these both on YouTube and here. IfThis is obviously a matter of taste and personal
music listening becomes a quest for the best product
rather than listening for the pleasure of hearing music,
it becomes a never-ending source of dissatisfaction.
preferences. Why do you think anyone needs your
generous advice, Mr. Political Correctness?
One day you’ll wake up feeling negative aboutSo what? Such is life.
the recordings you once valued.
That’s how it works if you’re not careful.What should we be careful about ?!?
dk
What should we be careful about ?!?
Subtlety clearly isn’t your forte.
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 UTC+1:basically a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is different (ofc there are different shades though).It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (II have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism.
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people.
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of antisemites. But in general they are blind for this. It's
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the regime, while completely neglecting the fact thatthe Germans willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw's flawed
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:59:47 PM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
What should we be careful about ?!?
Subtlety clearly isn’t your forte.
Correct. It is my piano.
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:s basically a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is different (ofc there are different shades though).It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (II have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism.
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people.
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of antisemites. But in general they are blind for this. It'
that the Germans willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw'sJust remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the regime, while completely neglecting the fact
How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of the American popular song?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 02:49:59 UTC+1:It's basically a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is different (ofc there are different shades though).It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (II have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism.
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people.
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of antisemites. But in general they are blind for this.
that the Germans willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw'sJust remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the regime, while completely neglecting the fact
How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of the American popular song?
Andrew ClarkeHow much of an idiot are you?
Canberra
where klesma would have been heard. There was at one time a flourishing Yiddish American popular culture, which expressed itself not only in popular song but in Yiddish language stage shows and films. "Bei mir bistu shein" was written for a YiddishHow much of an idiot are you?I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart, Irving Berlin - were Jewish, living in communities
So it seems to me very likely that klesma traditions had some influence. And it would seem far more worthwhile to explore this particular and tangible element of Jewish American culture than to waste time throwing anti-anti-semitic insults at eachother, often with very little justification.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:It's basically a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 UTC+1: >>>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>
But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is different (ofc there are different shades though).It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (II have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism.
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people.
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of antisemites. But in general they are blind for this.
that the Germans willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw's
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the regime, while completely neglecting the fact
where klesma would have been heard. There was at one time a flourishing Yiddish American popular culture, which expressed itself not only in popular song but in Yiddish language stage shows and films. "Bei mir bistu shein" was written for a YiddishHow much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of the American popular song?How much of an idiot are you?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart, Irving Berlin - were Jewish, living in communities
So it seems to me very likely that klesma traditions had some influence. And it would seem far more worthwhile to explore this particular and tangible element of Jewish American culture than to waste time throwing anti-anti-semitic insults at eachother, often with very little justification.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I've not seen klezmer spelled "klesma" before.
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:It's basically a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 UTC+1: >>>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote: >>>>>>
But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is different (ofc there are different shades though).It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (II have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism.
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people.
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of antisemites. But in general they are blind for this.
that the Germans willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw's
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the regime, while completely neglecting the fact
where klesma would have been heard. There was at one time a flourishing Yiddish American popular culture, which expressed itself not only in popular song but in Yiddish language stage shows and films. "Bei mir bistu shein" was written for a YiddishHow much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of the American popular song?How much of an idiot are you?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart, Irving Berlin - were Jewish, living in communities
So it seems to me very likely that klesma traditions had some influence. And it would seem far more worthwhile to explore this particular and tangible element of Jewish American culture than to waste time throwing anti-anti-semitic insults at eachother, often with very little justification.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I've not seen klezmer spelled "klesma" before.
Phonetic spelling?
Henk
On 11/3/2022 4:24 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um
02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:How much of an idiot are you?
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of
UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank BergerBut antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is
wrote:
I have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (I
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
different (ofc there are different shades though).
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of
being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words). >>>>>
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism. >>>>>
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in
global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for
economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how
a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or
a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really
afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people.
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and
antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though
imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of
antisemites. But in general they are blind for this. It's basically
a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw,
sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they
all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the
regime, while completely neglecting the fact that the Germans
willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german
resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland,
france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won,
the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw's flawed
understanding of the events make it seem as if the Germans were
victims, not perpetrators, that's basically how the Germans today
view their grandparents, mostly as victims, as much as the Jews
(almost?) ;D it's super absurd. Almost everytime I talk to a German
(and I am German) about his grandparents, they tell me "Meine Oma
war kein Nazi"... The Germans are idiots on a large scale,
otherwise we wouldn't have idiots in our government.
the American popular song?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the
USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most
celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart,
Irving Berlin - were Jewish, living in communities where klesma would
have been heard. There was at one time a flourishing Yiddish American
popular culture, which expressed itself not only in popular song but
in Yiddish language stage shows and films. "Bei mir bistu shein" was
written for a Yiddish musical comedy in New York - yes, I know most
people think it's in mispronounced German, but it isn't.
So it seems to me very likely that klesma traditions had some
influence. And it would seem far more worthwhile to explore this
particular and tangible element of Jewish American culture than to
waste time throwing anti-anti-semitic insults at each other, often
with very little justification.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I've not seen klezmer spelled "klesma" before.
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:It's basically a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is different (ofc there are different shades though).It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (II have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism.
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people.
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of antisemites. But in general they are blind for this.
that the Germans willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw'sJust remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the regime, while completely neglecting the fact
How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of the American popular song?
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the USA's greatest contributions to musical culture...Andrew ClarkeHow much of an idiot are you?
Canberra
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 09:25:01 UTC+1:
How much of an idiot are you?I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart, Irving Berlin - were Jewish...
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 1:25:01 AM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:this. It's basically a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is different (ofc there are different shades though).It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (II have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism.
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people.
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of antisemites. But in general they are blind for
fact that the Germans willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw'Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the regime, while completely neglecting the
How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of the American popular song?
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the USA's greatest contributions to musical culture...Andrew ClarkeHow much of an idiot are you?
Canberra
I used to hate that kind of music and wondered what Michael Feinstein was all about until I heard Dorothy Kirsten's recording of YOU GO TO MY HEAD and MORE THAN YOU KNOW.
Now The Great American Songbook goes to my head more than you know.
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 6:38:44 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 09:25:01 UTC+1:
How much of an idiot are you?I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart, Irving Berlin - were Jewish...
I used to hate that kind of music and wondered what Michael Feinstein was all about until I heard Dorothy Kirsten's recordings of YOU GO TO MY HEAD and MORE THAN YOU KNOW.
Now The Great American Songbook goes to my head more than you know.
Lot more.
Make that a WHOLE lot more.
Times 2.
By the way, are the songs from PORGY... considered part of the GREAT...?
On 11/3/22 7:28 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
On 11/3/2022 4:24 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um
02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote: >>>>> dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 >>>>> UTC+1:How much of an idiot are you?
How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development ofOn Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger >>>>>> wrote:But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is >>>>> different (ofc there are different shades though).
I have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (I
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of
being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words). >>>>>
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism. >>>>>
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in
global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for
economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how >>>>> a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or >>>>> a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really
afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people. >>>>>
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and
antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though
imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of >>>>> antisemites. But in general they are blind for this. It's basically >>>>> a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, >>>>> sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they >>>>> all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the >>>>> regime, while completely neglecting the fact that the Germans
willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german
resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland,
france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won,
the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw's flawed
understanding of the events make it seem as if the Germans were
victims, not perpetrators, that's basically how the Germans today >>>>> view their grandparents, mostly as victims, as much as the Jews
(almost?) ;D it's super absurd. Almost everytime I talk to a German >>>>> (and I am German) about his grandparents, they tell me "Meine Oma >>>>> war kein Nazi"... The Germans are idiots on a large scale,
otherwise we wouldn't have idiots in our government.
the American popular song?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the
USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most
celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart,
Irving Berlin - were Jewish, living in communities where klesma would
have been heard. There was at one time a flourishing Yiddish American
popular culture, which expressed itself not only in popular song but
in Yiddish language stage shows and films. "Bei mir bistu shein" was
written for a Yiddish musical comedy in New York - yes, I know most
people think it's in mispronounced German, but it isn't.
So it seems to me very likely that klesma traditions had some
influence. And it would seem far more worthwhile to explore this
particular and tangible element of Jewish American culture than to
waste time throwing anti-anti-semitic insults at each other, often
with very little justification.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I've not seen klezmer spelled "klesma" before.Yeah, I wondered about that. Maybe it's a 'strine thing :-)
Bob Harper
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:It's basically a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 UTC+1:
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is different (ofc there are different shades though).It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (II have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism.
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people.
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of antisemites. But in general they are blind for this.
that the Germans willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw'sJust remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the regime, while completely neglecting the fact
How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of the American popular song?
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart, Irving Berlin - were Jewish...Andrew ClarkeHow much of an idiot are you?
Canberra
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 3:31:28 AM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:is, after all, pronounced "iz".
On 11/3/22 7:28 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
On 11/3/2022 4:24 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:Yeah, I wondered about that. Maybe it's a 'strine thing :-)
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um
02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>> dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 >>>>>>> UTC+1:How much of an idiot are you?
How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of >>>>>> the American popular song?On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger >>>>>>>> wrote:But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is >>>>>>> different (ofc there are different shades though).
I have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (I
doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of >>>>>>> being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words). >>>>>>>
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism. >>>>>>>
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in
global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for >>>>>>> economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how >>>>>>> a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or >>>>>>> a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really
afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people. >>>>>>>
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and
antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though >>>>>>> imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of >>>>>>> antisemites. But in general they are blind for this. It's basically >>>>>>> a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, >>>>>>> sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they >>>>>>> all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the >>>>>>> regime, while completely neglecting the fact that the Germans
willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german
resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland,
france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, >>>>>>> the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw's flawed
understanding of the events make it seem as if the Germans were
victims, not perpetrators, that's basically how the Germans today >>>>>>> view their grandparents, mostly as victims, as much as the Jews
(almost?) ;D it's super absurd. Almost everytime I talk to a German >>>>>>> (and I am German) about his grandparents, they tell me "Meine Oma >>>>>>> war kein Nazi"... The Germans are idiots on a large scale,
otherwise we wouldn't have idiots in our government.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the
USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most
celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart,
Irving Berlin - were Jewish, living in communities where klesma would
have been heard. There was at one time a flourishing Yiddish American
popular culture, which expressed itself not only in popular song but
in Yiddish language stage shows and films. "Bei mir bistu shein" was
written for a Yiddish musical comedy in New York - yes, I know most
people think it's in mispronounced German, but it isn't.
So it seems to me very likely that klesma traditions had some
influence. And it would seem far more worthwhile to explore this
particular and tangible element of Jewish American culture than to
waste time throwing anti-anti-semitic insults at each other, often
with very little justification.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I've not seen klezmer spelled "klesma" before.
Bob Harper
The only Australian klesma/klezma I'm familiar with is "Buy me a bistro, Shane".
It's not a question of spelling, it's a question of romanisation. I am generally unfamiliar with the alphabet in which Yiddish was originally written. I assume - possibly wrongly - that it was originally written from right to left. The English verb "is"
Maybe we could talk about what influence klezmer had on jass, as this was originally spelt?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I think it's funny how Herman once complained about growing antisemitism, but when Israel gets called a killing machine [....], he's surprisingly silent. He is hypocritical in (almost?) every way, and I think one should speak the truth and tell peoplewhat they are doing wrong.
On 11/3/2022 4:01 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:is" is, after all, pronounced "iz".
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 3:31:28 AM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
On 11/3/22 7:28 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
On 11/3/2022 4:24 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:Yeah, I wondered about that. Maybe it's a 'strine thing :-)
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote:
andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um
02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>> dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 >>>>>>> UTC+1:How much of an idiot are you?
How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of >>>>>> the American popular song?On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger >>>>>>>> wrote:But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is >>>>>>> different (ofc there are different shades though).
I have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (I >>>>>>>>> doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of >>>>>>> being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism. >>>>>>>
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in >>>>>>> global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for >>>>>>> economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how >>>>>>> a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or >>>>>>> a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really >>>>>>> afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people. >>>>>>>
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and >>>>>>> antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though >>>>>>> imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of >>>>>>> antisemites. But in general they are blind for this. It's basically >>>>>>> a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, >>>>>>> sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they >>>>>>> all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the >>>>>>> regime, while completely neglecting the fact that the Germans >>>>>>> willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german
resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland,
france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, >>>>>>> the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw's flawed
understanding of the events make it seem as if the Germans were >>>>>>> victims, not perpetrators, that's basically how the Germans today >>>>>>> view their grandparents, mostly as victims, as much as the Jews >>>>>>> (almost?) ;D it's super absurd. Almost everytime I talk to a German >>>>>>> (and I am German) about his grandparents, they tell me "Meine Oma >>>>>>> war kein Nazi"... The Germans are idiots on a large scale,
otherwise we wouldn't have idiots in our government.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the
USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most >>>> celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart,
Irving Berlin - were Jewish, living in communities where klesma would >>>> have been heard. There was at one time a flourishing Yiddish American >>>> popular culture, which expressed itself not only in popular song but >>>> in Yiddish language stage shows and films. "Bei mir bistu shein" was >>>> written for a Yiddish musical comedy in New York - yes, I know most >>>> people think it's in mispronounced German, but it isn't.
So it seems to me very likely that klesma traditions had some
influence. And it would seem far more worthwhile to explore this
particular and tangible element of Jewish American culture than to
waste time throwing anti-anti-semitic insults at each other, often
with very little justification.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I've not seen klezmer spelled "klesma" before.
Bob Harper
The only Australian klesma/klezma I'm familiar with is "Buy me a bistro, Shane".
It's not a question of spelling, it's a question of romanisation. I am generally unfamiliar with the alphabet in which Yiddish was originally written. I assume - possibly wrongly - that it was originally written from right to left. The English verb "
Maybe we could talk about what influence klezmer had on jass, as this was originally spelt?
Andrew ClarkeYiddish is written in Hebrew characters and is read from right to left, as is Hebrew. As a language, Yiddish is closer to German and Slavic languages than Hebrew.
Canberra
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 7:29:47 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:is" is, after all, pronounced "iz".
On 11/3/2022 4:01 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 3:31:28 AM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
On 11/3/22 7:28 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
On 11/3/2022 4:24 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:Yeah, I wondered about that. Maybe it's a 'strine thing :-)
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>> andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um
02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>> dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 >>>>>>>>> UTC+1:How much of an idiot are you?
How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of >>>>>>>> the American popular song?On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger >>>>>>>>>> wrote:But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is >>>>>>>>> different (ofc there are different shades though).
I have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (I >>>>>>>>>>> doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to biasJust like any form of racism, antisemitism comes in
against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate.
a wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of >>>>>>>>> being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism. >>>>>>>>>
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in >>>>>>>>> global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for >>>>>>>>> economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how >>>>>>>>> a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or >>>>>>>>> a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really >>>>>>>>> afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people. >>>>>>>>>
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and >>>>>>>>> antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though >>>>>>>>> imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of >>>>>>>>> antisemites. But in general they are blind for this. It's basically >>>>>>>>> a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, >>>>>>>>> sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they >>>>>>>>> all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the >>>>>>>>> regime, while completely neglecting the fact that the Germans >>>>>>>>> willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german
resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, >>>>>>>>> france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, >>>>>>>>> the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw's flawed
understanding of the events make it seem as if the Germans were >>>>>>>>> victims, not perpetrators, that's basically how the Germans today >>>>>>>>> view their grandparents, mostly as victims, as much as the Jews >>>>>>>>> (almost?) ;D it's super absurd. Almost everytime I talk to a German >>>>>>>>> (and I am German) about his grandparents, they tell me "Meine Oma >>>>>>>>> war kein Nazi"... The Germans are idiots on a large scale,
otherwise we wouldn't have idiots in our government.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the >>>>>> USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most >>>>>> celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart,
Irving Berlin - were Jewish, living in communities where klesma would >>>>>> have been heard. There was at one time a flourishing Yiddish American >>>>>> popular culture, which expressed itself not only in popular song but >>>>>> in Yiddish language stage shows and films. "Bei mir bistu shein" was >>>>>> written for a Yiddish musical comedy in New York - yes, I know most >>>>>> people think it's in mispronounced German, but it isn't.
So it seems to me very likely that klesma traditions had some
influence. And it would seem far more worthwhile to explore this
particular and tangible element of Jewish American culture than to >>>>>> waste time throwing anti-anti-semitic insults at each other, often >>>>>> with very little justification.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I've not seen klezmer spelled "klesma" before.
Bob Harper
The only Australian klesma/klezma I'm familiar with is "Buy me a bistro, Shane".
It's not a question of spelling, it's a question of romanisation. I am generally unfamiliar with the alphabet in which Yiddish was originally written. I assume - possibly wrongly - that it was originally written from right to left. The English verb "
regular, e.g. schoen --> sheyn. There's a sprinkling of Hebrew of course, e.g. ''bei mir hastu heyn" (rhymes with 'sheyn').Yiddish is written in Hebrew characters and is read from right to left, as is Hebrew. As a language, Yiddish is closer to German and Slavic languages than Hebrew.
Maybe we could talk about what influence klezmer had on jass, as this was originally spelt?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
My old friend in Haifa has learnt Yiddish as a fourth language, and occasionally quotes the odd phrase or two in romanised form to see if I can work it out from my smattering of German, and I find that I usually can. Even the vowel changes are quite
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
On 11/3/2022 5:26 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:"is" is, after all, pronounced "iz".
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 7:29:47 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 11/3/2022 4:01 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 3:31:28 AM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
On 11/3/22 7:28 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
On 11/3/2022 4:24 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:Yeah, I wondered about that. Maybe it's a 'strine thing :-)
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>> andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um >>>>>>> 02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>> dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45How much of an idiot are you?
UTC+1:How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of >>>>>>>> the American popular song?
On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger >>>>>>>>>> wrote:But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is >>>>>>>>> different (ofc there are different shades though).
I have the greatest respect for religion as long as no
It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (I >>>>>>>>>>> doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies"
lingo.
one expects me to parctice one.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to bias >>>>>>>>>>> against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate. >>>>>>>>>> Just like any form of racism, antisemitism comes ina wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of >>>>>>>>> being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism.
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in >>>>>>>>> global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for >>>>>>>>> economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how
a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or
a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really >>>>>>>>> afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people. >>>>>>>>>
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and >>>>>>>>> antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though >>>>>>>>> imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of
antisemites. But in general they are blind for this. It's basically
a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D >>>>>>>>>
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, >>>>>>>>> sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they
all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the >>>>>>>>> regime, while completely neglecting the fact that the Germans >>>>>>>>> willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german >>>>>>>>> resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, >>>>>>>>> france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, >>>>>>>>> the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw's flawed
understanding of the events make it seem as if the Germans were >>>>>>>>> victims, not perpetrators, that's basically how the Germans today >>>>>>>>> view their grandparents, mostly as victims, as much as the Jews >>>>>>>>> (almost?) ;D it's super absurd. Almost everytime I talk to a German
(and I am German) about his grandparents, they tell me "Meine Oma >>>>>>>>> war kein Nazi"... The Germans are idiots on a large scale, >>>>>>>>> otherwise we wouldn't have idiots in our government.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the >>>>>> USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most >>>>>> celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart, >>>>>> Irving Berlin - were Jewish, living in communities where klesma would >>>>>> have been heard. There was at one time a flourishing Yiddish American >>>>>> popular culture, which expressed itself not only in popular song but >>>>>> in Yiddish language stage shows and films. "Bei mir bistu shein" was >>>>>> written for a Yiddish musical comedy in New York - yes, I know most >>>>>> people think it's in mispronounced German, but it isn't.
So it seems to me very likely that klesma traditions had some
influence. And it would seem far more worthwhile to explore this >>>>>> particular and tangible element of Jewish American culture than to >>>>>> waste time throwing anti-anti-semitic insults at each other, often >>>>>> with very little justification.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I've not seen klezmer spelled "klesma" before.
Bob Harper
The only Australian klesma/klezma I'm familiar with is "Buy me a bistro, Shane".
It's not a question of spelling, it's a question of romanisation. I am generally unfamiliar with the alphabet in which Yiddish was originally written. I assume - possibly wrongly - that it was originally written from right to left. The English verb
regular, e.g. schoen --> sheyn. There's a sprinkling of Hebrew of course, e.g. ''bei mir hastu heyn" (rhymes with 'sheyn').Yiddish is written in Hebrew characters and is read from right to left, as is Hebrew. As a language, Yiddish is closer to German and Slavic languages than Hebrew.
Maybe we could talk about what influence klezmer had on jass, as this was originally spelt?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
My old friend in Haifa has learnt Yiddish as a fourth language, and occasionally quotes the odd phrase or two in romanised form to see if I can work it out from my smattering of German, and I find that I usually can. Even the vowel changes are quite
ancient Hebrew word for pizza. By "as a language" above I had in mind grammar.Andrew ClarkeI'm not an expert on this, but of course Hebrew words have been incorporated into Yiddish. That's no different than other languages. The Hebrew word for pizza, transliterated into English is, wait for it, pizza. It is not surprising that there is no
Canberra
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 9:09:33 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:"is" is, after all, pronounced "iz".
On 11/3/2022 5:26 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 7:29:47 AM UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
On 11/3/2022 4:01 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 3:31:28 AM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote: >>>>>> On 11/3/22 7:28 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
On 11/3/2022 4:24 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:Yeah, I wondered about that. Maybe it's a 'strine thing :-)
On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 5:56:26 PM UTC+11, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>> andrewc...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um >>>>>>>>> 02:49:59 UTC+1:
On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 8:08:39 AM UTC+11, Marc S wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 21:07:45 >>>>>>>>>>> UTC+1:How much of an idiot are you?
How much did the klesma tradition contribute to the development of >>>>>>>>>> the American popular song?On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:44:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:But antisemitism isn't just another form of racism, the quality is >>>>>>>>>>> different (ofc there are different shades though).
I have the greatest respect for religion as long as no >>>>>>>>>>>> one expects me to parctice one.
It's possible that Dan has little respect for religion (I >>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt Judaism in particular) and hence the "rabbies" >>>>>>>>>>>>> lingo.
The term antisemitism is not generally limited to bias >>>>>>>>>>>>> against religious Jews. Hitler didn't so discriminate. >>>>>>>>>>>> Just like any form of racism, antisemitism comes ina wide range of shades that stretch from "my nicest
neighbour is Jewish but I wouldn't let my daughter
mary his son" all the way to blatant and harsh legal
discrimination.
In times when religions ruled the world the Jews were accused of >>>>>>>>>>> being the murderers of god (or as in Islam of corrupting god's words).
The Nazis accused the Jews of being behind capitalism and communism.
And in today's times Jews are accused of pulling the strings in >>>>>>>>>>> global politics (same as the Nazis), or are made responsible for >>>>>>>>>>> economic crises etc.
The power attributed to the Jews by antisemites is different of how >>>>>>>>>>> a racist views the object of his hatred, say a black or a latino or >>>>>>>>>>> a chinese etc.
Racists view say blacks as inferior people, they are not really >>>>>>>>>>> afraid of them. Antisemites however view Jews as superior people. >>>>>>>>>>>
There is also a difference to be made between antijudaism and >>>>>>>>>>> antisemitism probably. Your rabbis-comment was none of it though >>>>>>>>>>> imo - regarding the context. And ya, I think Herman shows traits of >>>>>>>>>>> antisemites. But in general they are blind for this. It's basically >>>>>>>>>>> a pathological condition. You know this better than I do ;D >>>>>>>>>>>
Just remembering the absurd incident of how Herman quoted Kershaw, >>>>>>>>>>> sort of defending the Germans and trying to make it seem as if they >>>>>>>>>>> all had no other choice but to follow the orders of Hitler and the >>>>>>>>>>> regime, while completely neglecting the fact that the Germans >>>>>>>>>>> willingly followed Hitler (there was basically _no_ german >>>>>>>>>>> resistance, except for some individuals, compared to poland, >>>>>>>>>>> france, italy), and we can be quite sure that if Hitler had won, >>>>>>>>>>> the Germans would still celebrate him. Kershaw's flawed
understanding of the events make it seem as if the Germans were >>>>>>>>>>> victims, not perpetrators, that's basically how the Germans today >>>>>>>>>>> view their grandparents, mostly as victims, as much as the Jews >>>>>>>>>>> (almost?) ;D it's super absurd. Almost everytime I talk to a German >>>>>>>>>>> (and I am German) about his grandparents, they tell me "Meine Oma >>>>>>>>>>> war kein Nazi"... The Germans are idiots on a large scale, >>>>>>>>>>> otherwise we wouldn't have idiots in our government.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I'm not an idiot at all. The Great American Songbook is one of the >>>>>>>> USA's greatest contributions to musical culture, and many of its most >>>>>>>> celebrated lyricists and composers - the Gershwins, Lorenz Hart, >>>>>>>> Irving Berlin - were Jewish, living in communities where klesma would >>>>>>>> have been heard. There was at one time a flourishing Yiddish American >>>>>>>> popular culture, which expressed itself not only in popular song but >>>>>>>> in Yiddish language stage shows and films. "Bei mir bistu shein" was >>>>>>>> written for a Yiddish musical comedy in New York - yes, I know most >>>>>>>> people think it's in mispronounced German, but it isn't.
So it seems to me very likely that klesma traditions had some
influence. And it would seem far more worthwhile to explore this >>>>>>>> particular and tangible element of Jewish American culture than to >>>>>>>> waste time throwing anti-anti-semitic insults at each other, often >>>>>>>> with very little justification.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
I've not seen klezmer spelled "klesma" before.
Bob Harper
The only Australian klesma/klezma I'm familiar with is "Buy me a bistro, Shane".
It's not a question of spelling, it's a question of romanisation. I am generally unfamiliar with the alphabet in which Yiddish was originally written. I assume - possibly wrongly - that it was originally written from right to left. The English verb
regular, e.g. schoen --> sheyn. There's a sprinkling of Hebrew of course, e.g. ''bei mir hastu heyn" (rhymes with 'sheyn').Yiddish is written in Hebrew characters and is read from right to left, as is Hebrew. As a language, Yiddish is closer to German and Slavic languages than Hebrew.
Maybe we could talk about what influence klezmer had on jass, as this was originally spelt?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
My old friend in Haifa has learnt Yiddish as a fourth language, and occasionally quotes the odd phrase or two in romanised form to see if I can work it out from my smattering of German, and I find that I usually can. Even the vowel changes are quite
ancient Hebrew word for pizza. By "as a language" above I had in mind grammar.I'm not an expert on this, but of course Hebrew words have been incorporated into Yiddish. That's no different than other languages. The Hebrew word for pizza, transliterated into English is, wait for it, pizza. It is not surprising that there is no
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Frank, no adverse crititicism was intended. I've always understood that Yiddish was a dialect of German with number of loan words from Hebrew, which is perfectly understandable. And of course this has influenced American English too, e.g. kvetching,shlepping.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
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