• Re: ABM...

    From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to MELMOTH on Wed Oct 26 21:44:41 2022
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*...
    But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?...

    For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the
    Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...

    And of course the video with Celi...

    Old hat. Try this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8R8qL6AnZY

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Wed Oct 26 22:15:45 2022
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 9:44:44 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*...
    But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?...
    For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...

    Were you there? According to my
    calculator you must have been 8.

    And of course the video with Celi...

    Old hat. Try this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8R8qL6AnZY

    Also try this, clearly influence by Ravel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofL3E9dF6C4

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Wed Oct 26 22:43:20 2022
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:15:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 9:44:44 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*... But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?...
    For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...
    Were you there? According to my
    calculator you must have been 8.
    And of course the video with Celi...

    Old hat. Try this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8R8qL6AnZY
    Also try this, clearly influence by Ravel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofL3E9dF6C4

    And if you find a "better" Chopin op. 27 no. 2 than

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Mkqe2bHeY

    please send us a postcard.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Wed Oct 26 22:54:40 2022
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:43:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:15:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 9:44:44 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*... But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?...
    For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...
    Were you there? According to my
    calculator you must have been 8.
    And of course the video with Celi...

    Old hat. Try this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8R8qL6AnZY
    Also try this, clearly influence by Ravel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofL3E9dF6C4
    And if you find a "better" Chopin op. 27 no. 2 than

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Mkqe2bHeY

    please send us a postcard.

    Here is another gem, completely beyond
    ABM's musical capabilities and imagination:

    https://youtu.be/4LCQUS1Yun0?t=216

    At the end of the day, ABM was a perfect
    soulless pianistic machine. Nothing more,
    nothing less, and nothing else. No emotion,
    no imagination, everything in the score, and
    nothing beyond the score.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JohnGavin@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Thu Oct 27 05:18:28 2022
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:54:43 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:43:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:15:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 9:44:44 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*...
    But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?...
    For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...
    Were you there? According to my
    calculator you must have been 8.
    And of course the video with Celi...

    Old hat. Try this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8R8qL6AnZY
    Also try this, clearly influence by Ravel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofL3E9dF6C4
    And if you find a "better" Chopin op. 27 no. 2 than

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Mkqe2bHeY

    please send us a postcard.
    Here is another gem, completely beyond
    ABM's musical capabilities and imagination:

    https://youtu.be/4LCQUS1Yun0?t=216

    At the end of the day, ABM was a perfect
    soulless pianistic machine. Nothing more,
    nothing less, and nothing else. No emotion,
    no imagination, everything in the score, and
    nothing beyond the score.

    dk

    At the end of the day - ABM was one of the greatest pianists of the 20th century!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JohnGavin@21:1/5 to MELMOTH on Thu Oct 27 08:11:30 2022
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:01:55 AM UTC-4, MELMOTH wrote:
    JohnGavin avait écrit le 27/10/2022 :
    At the end of the day, ABM was a perfect
    soulless pianistic machine. Nothing more,
    nothing less, and nothing else. No emotion,
    no imagination, everything in the score, and
    nothing beyond the score.
    When will you finally become aware of your absolute stupidity ?...I ask
    the question...

    Dear Melmoth:

    You made it seem as if I said the things that DK said. My feelings are the exact opposite 😀

    Merci beaucoup

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MELMOTH@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 27 17:01:50 2022
    JohnGavin avait crit le 27/10/2022 :
    At the end of the day, ABM was a perfect
    soulless pianistic machine. Nothing more,
    nothing less, and nothing else. No emotion,
    no imagination, everything in the score, and
    nothing beyond the score.

    When will you finally become aware of your absolute stupidity ?...I ask
    the question...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to JohnGavin on Thu Oct 27 11:13:37 2022
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 5:18:42 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:54:43 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:43:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:15:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 9:44:44 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*...
    But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?... For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...
    Were you there? According to my
    calculator you must have been 8.
    And of course the video with Celi...

    Old hat. Try this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8R8qL6AnZY
    Also try this, clearly influence by Ravel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofL3E9dF6C4
    And if you find a "better" Chopin op. 27 no. 2 than

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Mkqe2bHeY

    please send us a postcard.
    Here is another gem, completely beyond
    ABM's musical capabilities and imagination:

    https://youtu.be/4LCQUS1Yun0?t=216

    At the end of the day, ABM was a perfect
    soulless pianistic machine. Nothing more,
    nothing less, and nothing else. No emotion,
    no imagination, everything in the score, and
    nothing beyond the score.

    At the end of the day - ABM was one of
    the greatest pianists of the 20th century!

    Yadda, yadda ... ABM was indeed a "great"
    pianist in the traditional sense. He played
    the score literally, he did not re-create it to
    the degree a Cziffra, Sofronitsky, Pletnev
    or HJ Lim do. He was a literalist.

    My brain and my ears no longer have any
    use for artists who do nothing but follow
    the score literally, no matter how polished.

    Obviously, different people listen to music
    differently. Whatever makes one happy
    makes one happy. ABM no longer makes
    me happy. If he makes you happy, enjoy!

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AB@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Thu Oct 27 11:21:25 2022
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 2:13:40 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 5:18:42 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:54:43 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:43:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:15:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 9:44:44 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*...
    But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?... For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the
    Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...
    Were you there? According to my
    calculator you must have been 8.
    And of course the video with Celi...

    Old hat. Try this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8R8qL6AnZY
    Also try this, clearly influence by Ravel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofL3E9dF6C4
    And if you find a "better" Chopin op. 27 no. 2 than

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Mkqe2bHeY

    please send us a postcard.
    Here is another gem, completely beyond
    ABM's musical capabilities and imagination:

    https://youtu.be/4LCQUS1Yun0?t=216

    At the end of the day, ABM was a perfect
    soulless pianistic machine. Nothing more,
    nothing less, and nothing else. No emotion,
    no imagination, everything in the score, and
    nothing beyond the score.

    At the end of the day - ABM was one of
    the greatest pianists of the 20th century!
    Yadda, yadda ... ABM was indeed a "great"
    pianist in the traditional sense. He played
    the score literally, he did not re-create it to
    the degree a Cziffra, Sofronitsky, Pletnev
    or HJ Lim do. He was a literalist.

    My brain and my ears no longer have any
    use for artists who do nothing but follow
    the score literally, no matter how polished.

    Obviously, different people listen to music
    differently. Whatever makes one happy
    makes one happy. ABM no longer makes
    me happy. If he makes you happy, enjoy!

    AB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AB@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 27 11:37:56 2022
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 2:21:29 PM UTC-4, AB wrote:
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 2:13:40 PM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 5:18:42 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 1:54:43 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:43:22 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:15:48 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 9:44:44 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*...
    But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?...
    For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the
    Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...
    Were you there? According to my
    calculator you must have been 8.
    And of course the video with Celi...

    Old hat. Try this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8R8qL6AnZY
    Also try this, clearly influence by Ravel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofL3E9dF6C4
    And if you find a "better" Chopin op. 27 no. 2 than

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Mkqe2bHeY

    please send us a postcard.
    Here is another gem, completely beyond
    ABM's musical capabilities and imagination:

    https://youtu.be/4LCQUS1Yun0?t=216

    At the end of the day, ABM was a perfect
    soulless pianistic machine. Nothing more,
    nothing less, and nothing else. No emotion,
    no imagination, everything in the score, and
    nothing beyond the score.

    At the end of the day - ABM was one of
    the greatest pianists of the 20th century!
    Yadda, yadda ... ABM was indeed a "great"
    pianist in the traditional sense. He played
    the score literally, he did not re-create it to
    the degree a Cziffra, Sofronitsky, Pletnev
    or HJ Lim do. He was a literalist.

    My brain and my ears no longer have any
    use for artists who do nothing but follow
    the score literally, no matter how polished.

    Obviously, different people listen to music
    differently. Whatever makes one happy
    makes one happy. ABM no longer makes
    me happy. If he makes you happy, enjoy!
    AB

    ABM Busoni-Chaconne recording far superior to any recording of the others, but he could be mediocre, heard him in CH, 1969, very indifferent playing
    CH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 27 11:54:16 2022
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:37:59 AM UTC-7, AB wrote:

    ABM Busoni-Chaconne recording far
    superior to any recording of the others,

    Music and the world have not stopped
    with ABM's passing. Listen to this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c9ueJ3wRRU

    And get out of your cave -- or time capsule
    if you prefer a more polite description. BTW
    there is no shortage of superb performances
    of the Bach Busoni Chaconne.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Oct 27 12:04:51 2022
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:54:19 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:37:59 AM UTC-7, AB wrote:

    ABM Busoni-Chaconne recording far
    superior to any recording of the others,
    Music and the world have not stopped
    with ABM's passing. Listen to this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c9ueJ3wRRU

    And get out of your cave -- or time capsule
    if you prefer a more polite description. BTW
    there is no shortage of superb performances
    of the Bach Busoni Chaconne.

    E.g.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QfK33NY4Mk

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Oct 27 13:33:28 2022
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 12:04:54 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:54:19 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 11:37:59 AM UTC-7, AB wrote:

    ABM Busoni-Chaconne recording far
    superior to any recording of the others,
    Music and the world have not stopped
    with ABM's passing. Listen to this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c9ueJ3wRRU

    And get out of your cave -- or time capsule
    if you prefer a more polite description. BTW
    there is no shortage of superb performances
    of the Bach Busoni Chaconne.
    E.g.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QfK33NY4Mk

    And Grisha plays it with one hand! ;-)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsylKLNXo9w

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MELMOTH@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 28 01:20:47 2022
    JohnGavin avait soumis l'ide :
    Dear Melmoth:

    You made it seem as if I said the things that DK said. My feelings are the exact opposite ?

    Merci beaucoup

    Sorry!...I was obviously responding to koko !...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From gggg gggg@21:1/5 to MELMOTH on Mon Oct 31 15:08:47 2022
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*...
    But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?...

    For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the
    Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...

    And of course the video with Celi...

    Emperor Concerto (recent article):

    https://www.udiscovermusic.com/classical-features/beethoven-emperor-concerto/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to gggg gggg on Mon Oct 31 15:40:51 2022
    On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 3:08:50 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*...
    But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?...

    For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...

    And of course the video with Celi...
    Emperor Concerto (recent article):

    https://www.udiscovermusic.com/classical-features/beethoven-emperor-concerto/

    This is a ridiculous recommendation. There is
    near consensus among ABM fans and fanettes
    that the ABM/Giulini/VPO/DG is the weakest of
    ABM's recorded readings of Der Kaiser.

    There is also near consensus the May 1969 Helsinki
    performance with Celibidache conducting the SRSO
    is the finest.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gliGE50J1E0

    Some ABM fans prefer the 1974 Paris performance
    with Celi conducting the ORTF:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2rgfENaK3A

    or the 1960 Vatican performance with RAI/Roma
    conducted by Rossi.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj33E_6pGPU

    The Giulini/VPO/DG gig was dead from the start.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to gggg gggg on Mon Oct 31 15:38:28 2022
    On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 3:08:50 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*...
    But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?...

    For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...

    And of course the video with Celi...
    Emperor Concerto (recent article):

    https://www.udiscovermusic.com/classical-features/beethoven-emperor-concerto/

    This is a ridiculous recommendation. There is
    near consensus among ABM fans and fanettes
    that the ABM/Giulini/VPO/DG is the weakest of
    ABM's recorded readingsof the work.

    There is also near consensus the May 1969 Helsinki
    performance with Celibidache conducting the SRSO
    is the finest.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gliGE50J1E0

    Some ABM fans prefer the 1974 Paris performance
    with Celi conducting the ORTF:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2rgfENaK3A

    or the 1960 Vatican performance with RAI/Roma
    conducted by Rossi.

    The Giulini/VPO/DG gig was dead from the start.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Mon Oct 31 15:52:07 2022
    I find Pletnev MUCH "better":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh3UjvnDS-8

    On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 3:50:17 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    BTW I no longer like ABM's Beethoven readings.

    They sound too planned and predictable to my
    current pair of ears, though one must admit in
    the interest of fairness that this is also partly
    the result of overexposure.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Mon Oct 31 15:50:14 2022
    BTW I no longer like ABM's Beethoven readings.

    They sound too planned and predictable to my
    current pair of ears, though one must admit in
    the interest of fairness that this is also partly
    the result of overexposure.

    dk

    On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 3:40:54 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 3:08:50 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
    On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 7:11:14 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    The case is well known : the /concerto in G/ of Ravel, it is *ABM*... But which of his many recordings do you think is the "best" ?...

    For my part, I have a small preference for the 1952 concert at the Théâtre des Champs Elysées, conducted by Markevitch (Tahra)...

    And of course the video with Celi...
    Emperor Concerto (recent article):

    https://www.udiscovermusic.com/classical-features/beethoven-emperor-concerto/
    This is a ridiculous recommendation. There is
    near consensus among ABM fans and fanettes
    that the ABM/Giulini/VPO/DG is the weakest of
    ABM's recorded readings of Der Kaiser.

    There is also near consensus the May 1969 Helsinki
    performance with Celibidache conducting the SRSO
    is the finest.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gliGE50J1E0

    Some ABM fans prefer the 1974 Paris performance
    with Celi conducting the ORTF:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2rgfENaK3A

    or the 1960 Vatican performance with RAI/Roma
    conducted by Rossi.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj33E_6pGPU

    The Giulini/VPO/DG gig was dead from the start.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MELMOTH@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 1 20:31:17 2022
    Le 31/10/2022, Dan Koren a suppos :
    BTW I no longer like ABM's Beethoven readings.

    https://www.amazon.fr/Century-Collection-Allemand-Michelangeli-Benedetti/dp/B07Y46HP6R/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=michelangeli+ermitage&qid=1667331002&s=music&sr=1-1

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to MELMOTH on Tue Nov 1 12:36:11 2022
    On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:31:21 PM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    Le 31/10/2022, Dan Koren a supposé :
    BTW I no longer like ABM's Beethoven readings.
    https://www.amazon.fr/Century-Collection-Allemand-Michelangeli-Benedetti/dp/B07Y46HP6R/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=michelangeli+ermitage&qid=1667331002&s=music&sr=1-1

    ROTFL!

    Does anyone imagine for a moment that I
    do not already have all of Michelangeli's
    recordings and heard them all ?!?

    Thanks for the pointer anyway, my dear
    Docteur d'Escargots de Limoges. I do
    appreciate your love and well thought
    recommendations -- even though my
    ears have been gored by your Yak
    Symphony recommendations. I
    had to be trated for PTSD after
    listening to Monteux conducting
    the SF Army band.

    dk

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Tue Nov 1 18:06:26 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 20:36:14 UTC+1:
    On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:31:21 PM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    Le 31/10/2022, Dan Koren a supposé :
    BTW I no longer like ABM's Beethoven readings.
    https://www.amazon.fr/Century-Collection-Allemand-Michelangeli-Benedetti/dp/B07Y46HP6R/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=michelangeli+ermitage&qid=1667331002&s=music&sr=1-1
    ROTFL!

    Does anyone imagine for a moment that I
    do not already have all of Michelangeli's
    recordings and heard them all ?!?

    Do you really believe this was a rec? I think he was trying to mock you...

    Sometimes Dan, your situational awareness is lacking "Does anyone imagine blablabla..." this really justifies Melmoth's mockery ;D

    Michelangeli is still untopped in
    -Schumann PC (with Scherchen),
    -Mozart PC 20 (early recording with Giulini - though I wouldn't want to own it, since it doesn't satisfy for many reasons, but it's still the best I heard)
    -Mozart PC 13 Giulini (wouldn't want to own either)
    -Bach-Busoni Chaconne (Fuck Pletnev, Fuck Osetinskaya, Fuck Grimaud, fuck whatever else you had posted, they all pale in comparison - but fuck this version in general, I prefer Bach's played by Szeryng)
    -and he also is not topped in some Brahms stuff I think (but I would have to relisten).
    -and, I almost forgot it, he is also not topped in KV 493; I think in some parts lack a bit of fire , but it's still the best I heard.

    In his other repertoire I am not really interested... but from I heard he seems to be among the top there as well. Not my favorite pianist anymore though - will depend on my reevaluation of his Brahms.

    I'm only interested in Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Schoenberg and Webern for the most part I guess...

    Pletnev sucks with Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms. Maybe he is good with Rachmaninov or Scarlatti or Debussy, I don't fucking care, because they all fucking suck.

    I wish everyone a good sleep!

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to Marc S on Tue Nov 1 18:13:40 2022
    Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 02:06:29 UTC+1:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 20:36:14 UTC+1:
    On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:31:21 PM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    Le 31/10/2022, Dan Koren a supposé :
    BTW I no longer like ABM's Beethoven readings.
    https://www.amazon.fr/Century-Collection-Allemand-Michelangeli-Benedetti/dp/B07Y46HP6R/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=michelangeli+ermitage&qid=1667331002&s=music&sr=1-1
    ROTFL!

    Does anyone imagine for a moment that I
    do not already have all of Michelangeli's
    recordings and heard them all ?!?
    Do you really believe this was a rec? I think he was trying to mock you...

    Sometimes Dan, your situational awareness is lacking "Does anyone imagine blablabla..." this really justifies Melmoth's mockery ;D

    Michelangeli is still untopped in
    -Schumann PC (with Scherchen),

    *Wouldn't want to own this as well, because I don't really like Schumann too much... thinking about it, maybe I like him more, or at least as much as Webern... Webern is not that great...

    This reduces the musicians I really appreciate to: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Schoenberg.

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to Marc S on Tue Nov 1 18:43:32 2022
    Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 02:13:43 UTC+1:
    Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 02:06:29 UTC+1:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 1. November 2022 um 20:36:14 UTC+1:
    On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 12:31:21 PM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:
    Le 31/10/2022, Dan Koren a supposé :
    BTW I no longer like ABM's Beethoven readings.
    https://www.amazon.fr/Century-Collection-Allemand-Michelangeli-Benedetti/dp/B07Y46HP6R/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=michelangeli+ermitage&qid=1667331002&s=music&sr=1-1
    ROTFL!

    Does anyone imagine for a moment that I
    do not already have all of Michelangeli's
    recordings and heard them all ?!?
    Do you really believe this was a rec? I think he was trying to mock you...

    Sometimes Dan, your situational awareness is lacking "Does anyone imagine blablabla..." this really justifies Melmoth's mockery ;D

    Michelangeli is still untopped in
    -Schumann PC (with Scherchen),
    *Wouldn't want to own this as well, because I don't really like Schumann too much... thinking about it, maybe I like him more, or at least as much as Webern... Webern is not that great...

    Before I finally go to sleep, I have to correct myself again, having thought about it a bit more: I rate Webern much higher than Schumann! And for now I will continue to listen to him, I appreciate some of his stuff really much. Just not sure if I
    consider him as good as Schoenberg and my other favorites... time will tell.

    I don't like Schumann's musical personality at all... I have similar feelings with Tchaikovsky and Mahler and also Rachmaninov.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Tue Nov 1 18:47:55 2022
    On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 6:06:29 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:

    Michelangeli is still untopped in

    Matter of taste

    -Schumann PC (with Scherchen),

    Probably, though I like others as much, if not better.

    -Mozart PC 20 (early recording with Giulini - though
    I wouldn't want to own it, since it doesn't satisfy for
    many reasons, but it's still the best I heard)

    Picky, picky. Plenty of other choices.

    -Mozart PC 13 Giulini (wouldn't want to own either)

    The work does not interest me at all.
    I only listen to K.453 and higher.

    -Bach-Busoni Chaconne (Fuck Pletnev, Fuck Osetinskaya,
    Fuck Grimaud, fuck whatever else you had posted, they
    all pale in comparison - but fuck this version in general,

    I enjoy different readings for different
    reasons. ABM's is way too monumental
    (for lack of a better term) for my current
    ears. As you know I change ears twice a
    year!

    I prefer Bach's played by Szeryng)

    Different kettle of fish.

    -and he also is not topped in some Brahms
    stuff I think (but I would have to relisten).

    The Paganini Variations are good, the Ballades
    op. 10 are way too siff for my taste.

    -and, I almost forgot it, he is also not topped in
    KV 493; I think in some parts lack a bit of fire,
    but it's still the best I heard.

    Not a work I am interested in. KV 478 is a
    different matter.

    In his other repertoire I am not really interested...
    but from I heard he seems to be among the top
    there as well. Not my favorite pianist anymore
    though - will depend on my reevaluation of his
    Brahms.

    Please send us a postcard when you are done.

    I'm only interested in Bach, Mozart, Beethoven,
    Brahms, Schoenberg and Webern for the most
    part I guess...

    Hhmmm..... Austro-Germanic music and nothing
    else? This kind of diet is not healthy. You really
    need to start listening to French, Italian, Spanish
    and Latin American music.

    Pletnev sucks with Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven
    and Brahms. Maybe he is good with Rachmaninov
    or Scarlatti or Debussy, I don't fucking care, because
    they all fucking suck.

    Many pianists would kill in order to suck half as
    much as Pletnev.

    dk

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  • From MELMOTH@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 2 10:11:43 2022
    Marc S avait soumis l'ide :
    -Mozart PC 20 (early recording with Giulini - though I wouldn't want to own it, since it doesn't satisfy for many reasons, but it's still the best I heard)

    ABM with *Mitropoulos* !...

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to Marc S on Wed Nov 2 04:01:22 2022
    Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 11:44:55 UTC+1:
    MELMOTH schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 10:11:51 UTC+1:
    Marc S avait soumis l'idée :
    -Mozart PC 20 (early recording with Giulini - though I wouldn't want to own
    it, since it doesn't satisfy for many reasons, but it's still the best I heard)
    ABM with *Mitropoulos* !...
    It would be my second favorite of his KV 466 interpretations, but I much prefer the cadenzas in the recording with Scherchen and also the accompaniment by Scherchen (if I remember correctly).

    *Exchange Scherchen with Giulini.

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to MELMOTH on Wed Nov 2 03:44:52 2022
    MELMOTH schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 10:11:51 UTC+1:
    Marc S avait soumis l'idée :
    -Mozart PC 20 (early recording with Giulini - though I wouldn't want to own
    it, since it doesn't satisfy for many reasons, but it's still the best I heard)
    ABM with *Mitropoulos* !...

    It would be my second favorite of his KV 466 interpretations, but I much prefer the cadenzas in the recording with Scherchen and also the accompaniment by Scherchen (if I remember correctly).

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Wed Nov 2 03:43:37 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 02:47:58 UTC+1:
    Probably, though I like others as much, if not better.

    Osetinskaya? ;) Of the ones I heard, nobody comes close (Schumann PC). Late Michelangeli with Celibidache is also very bad imo.

    Picky, picky. Plenty of other choices.

    Not really, only Schnabel and E. Fischer come to mind (KV 466). I especially despise the style of YES (thanks Arie Vardi) or the like... it's just nothing.

    The work does not interest me at all.
    I only listen to K.453 and higher.

    It doesn't interest me much as well, it doesn't hold up against Mozart's later works, but I would still prefer it over anything Chopin ever wrote.

    I enjoy different readings for different
    reasons. ABM's is way too monumental
    (for lack of a better term) for my current
    ears. As you know I change ears twice a
    year!

    I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that it does sound monumental, it doesn't fit with my understanding of Bach's original score which I think is of more intimate character - this is precisely the reason, why I don't like Busoni's
    transcription; but compared to the original, the transcription seems of monumental character, and imo Pletnev doesn't do justice to this and it just doesn't really work.

    BWV 582 otoh seems to be of monumental character, and Zhukov's transcription does seem to serve this idea (imo).

    The Paganini Variations are good, the Ballades
    op. 10 are way too siff for my taste.

    I think you are right about this, I remember this similary. But I don't care too much for the Paganini Variations...

    Not a work I am interested in. KV 478 is a
    different matter.

    I agree and the only version is Schnabel's. I am not too interested in KV 493 as well, but Michelangeli's account is still the best I heard.

    Hhmmm..... Austro-Germanic music and nothing
    else? This kind of diet is not healthy. You really
    need to start listening to French, Italian, Spanish
    and Latin American music.

    I have listened to enough other music, I have wasted enough time with shitty music. Austro-German music resonates the most with me (Thomas Mann was talking about "Innerlichkeit" in regards to Austro-German music, maybe it's this)... I really can't
    explain why.

    Debussy is too watery, as Szymanowski said about Debussy: it feels like you are under water or something when you listen to his music (sth along these lines). Etc etc... I just don't like the other composers as much.

    Many pianists would kill in order to suck half as
    much as Pletnev.

    I'd like to have his technique, but he just doesn't do justice to the scores of the Austro-Germanic repertoire imo. I also really despise how he very often only barely touches the keys in long passages (like in Bach Partita 6 or Mozart KV 491 etc.), it's
    crazy technique, but it really sucks to listen to - he does it too often and for too long imo,

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Thu Nov 3 00:21:05 2022
    On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 4:01:24 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 11:44:55 UTC+1:
    MELMOTH schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 10:11:51 UTC+1:
    Marc S avait soumis l'idée :
    -Mozart PC 20 (early recording with Giulini - though I wouldn't want to own
    it, since it doesn't satisfy for many reasons, but it's still the best I
    heard)
    ABM with *Mitropoulos* !...
    It would be my second favorite of his KV 466 interpretations, but
    I much prefer the cadenzas in the recording with Scherchen and
    also the accompaniment by Scherchen (if I remember correctly).
    *Exchange Scherchen with Giulini.

    Exchange ?!? Not replace? What does one
    get in exchange? English is not German! ;-)

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Thu Nov 3 01:15:36 2022
    On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 3:44:55 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    MELMOTH schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 10:11:51 UTC+1:
    Marc S avait soumis l'idée :
    -Mozart PC 20 (early recording with Giulini - though I wouldn't want to own
    it, since it doesn't satisfy for many reasons, but it's still the best I heard)
    ABM with *Mitropoulos* !...
    It would be my second favorite of his KV 466 interpretations,
    but I much prefer the cadenzas in the recording with Scherchen
    and also the accompaniment by Scherchen (if I remember correctly).

    My current preferred KV 466 is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=newFKuc0ZGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu92mENTMbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYXBMN2Zfcg

    .... but this could easily change tomorrow

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Nov 3 11:19:50 2022
    On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 1:15:38 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 3:44:55 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    MELMOTH schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 10:11:51 UTC+1:
    Marc S avait soumis l'idée :
    -Mozart PC 20 (early recording with Giulini - though I wouldn't want to own
    it, since it doesn't satisfy for many reasons, but it's still the best I
    heard)
    ABM with *Mitropoulos* !...
    It would be my second favorite of his KV 466 interpretations,
    but I much prefer the cadenzas in the recording with Scherchen
    and also the accompaniment by Scherchen (if I remember correctly).
    My current preferred KV 466 is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=newFKuc0ZGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu92mENTMbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYXBMN2Zfcg

    .... but this could easily change tomorrow

    Needless to say, Schnabel's 466 is an eternal reference:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqxvfkSKSf4

    Undortunately the sound quality is offputting.

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Nov 3 13:43:35 2022
    On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 1:15:38 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 3:44:55 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    MELMOTH schrieb am Mittwoch, 2. November 2022 um 10:11:51 UTC+1:
    Marc S avait soumis l'idée :
    -Mozart PC 20 (early recording with Giulini - though I wouldn't want to own
    it, since it doesn't satisfy for many reasons, but it's still the best I
    heard)
    ABM with *Mitropoulos* !...
    It would be my second favorite of his KV 466 interpretations,
    but I much prefer the cadenzas in the recording with Scherchen
    and also the accompaniment by Scherchen (if I remember correctly).
    My current preferred KV 466 is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=newFKuc0ZGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu92mENTMbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYXBMN2Zfcg

    .... but this could easily change tomorrow

    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    dk

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Thu Nov 3 14:00:17 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 09:15:38 UTC+1:
    My current preferred KV 466 is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=newFKuc0ZGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu92mENTMbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYXBMN2Zfcg

    .... but this could easily change tomorrow

    dk

    You disappoint me. I may have disappointed myself by mentioning E. Fischer, ya I did.

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Thu Nov 3 14:01:50 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 21:43:38 UTC+1:
    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    dk

    I will listen to it later or tomorrow.

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to Marc S on Thu Nov 3 14:57:04 2022
    Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 22:17:23 UTC+1:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 19:19:53 UTC+1:
    Needless to say, Schnabel's 466 is an eternal reference:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqxvfkSKSf4

    Undortunately the sound quality is offputting.

    dk
    I agree, much better than Michelangeli and the others. In the end, Michelangeli is no more one of my favorite pianists.

    For now my favorite pianists are: Schnabel, Rubinstein, Richter, Gilels, Neuhaus, Cziffra, Horowitz, probably Sokolov and Volodos as well. (depends a lot on the repertoire - I respect Sofronitsky highly, but I just don't like the music much that he
    recorded, and his Mozart and Beethoven hmmm, not so good... certainly no Schnabel). I also still need to listen to more pianists in Schoenberg and Webern.

    Oh and Gelber because of his Brahms PC 1.

    Criteria of becoming a favorite pianist of mine: 1 recording that I love above all others of a piece that I truly love.

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Thu Nov 3 14:17:21 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 19:19:53 UTC+1:
    Needless to say, Schnabel's 466 is an eternal reference:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqxvfkSKSf4

    Undortunately the sound quality is offputting.

    dk

    I agree, much better than Michelangeli and the others. In the end, Michelangeli is no more one of my favorite pianists.

    For now my favorite pianists are: Schnabel, Rubinstein, Richter, Gilels, Neuhaus, Cziffra, Horowitz, probably Sokolov and Volodos as well. (depends a lot on the repertoire - I respect Sofronitsky highly, but I just don't like the music much that he
    recorded, and his Mozart and Beethoven hmmm, not so good... certainly no Schnabel). I also still need to listen to more pianists in Schoenberg and Webern.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Thu Nov 3 16:57:12 2022
    On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 2:57:07 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:

    Criteria of becoming a favorite pianist of
    mine: 1 recording that I love above all
    others of a piece that I truly love.

    Doesn't sound different from anyone else.
    Maybe Melmoth can explain which Arrau
    performance of any work he loves more
    than any other of the same work. This
    would greatly help us understand how
    his ears and brain are wired, without
    doing an MRI or a CT scan. ;-)

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Thu Nov 3 17:18:05 2022
    On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 2:17:23 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:

    For now my favorite pianists are: Schnabel,
    Rubinstein, Richter, Gilels, Neuhaus, Cziffra,
    Horowitz, probably Sokolov and Volodos as
    well.

    No women ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    dk

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Fri Nov 4 13:56:16 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 21:43:38 UTC+1:
    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    dk

    Not good. I don't like anything about this.

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Fri Nov 4 14:07:09 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 4. November 2022 um 00:57:16 UTC+1:
    On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 2:57:07 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:

    Criteria of becoming a favorite pianist of
    mine: 1 recording that I love above all
    others of a piece that I truly love.
    Doesn't sound different from anyone else.

    I don't know, maybe. Others would maybe value in the quantity of "reference" recordings when thinking about favorite pianists, I don't.

    Maybe Melmoth can explain which Arrau
    performance of any work he loves more
    than any other of the same work. This
    would greatly help us understand how
    his ears and brain are wired, without
    doing an MRI or a CT scan. ;-)

    He doesn't need to explain, he can enjoy Arrau all he likes, just as you can enjoy Pletnev all you like (although I'd probably rather have the technique of pletnev)...

    I don't even want to understand how your or melmoth's ears are wired to be listening to either of those two...

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Fri Nov 4 14:13:13 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 4. November 2022 um 01:18:08 UTC+1:
    On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 2:17:23 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:

    For now my favorite pianists are: Schnabel,
    Rubinstein, Richter, Gilels, Neuhaus, Cziffra,
    Horowitz, probably Sokolov and Volodos as
    well.
    No women ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    dk

    Not in the repertoire that I truly love.

    I like Argerich and Ryumina very much. I don't think I would want to name any other women that I heard with them...

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 4 14:17:25 2022
    I don't even want to understand how your or melmoth's ears are wired to be listening to either of those two...

    Maybe I should've added a smiley ;D. Also I thought the exchange thing was funny... but you know Exchange-Students and stuff? I think it still makes sense in english...

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to Marc S on Fri Nov 4 14:58:18 2022
    Marc S schrieb am Freitag, 4. November 2022 um 22:13:16 UTC+1:
    I like Argerich and Ryumina very much. I don't think I would want to name any other women that I heard with them...

    And I think I shouldn't have mentioned Ryumina with Argerich... thinking about it, her Kreisleriana probably would be easily beat by others if I compared again.

    Argerich is the only female pianist I can think of that would come into consideration when deciding for a record outside of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms-repertoire.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Fri Nov 4 23:25:18 2022
    On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 21:43:38 UTC+1:
    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    Not good. I don't like anything about this.

    Thanks for listening. How about this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Sun Nov 6 09:22:13 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 5. November 2022 um 07:25:20 UTC+1:
    On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 21:43:38 UTC+1:
    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    Not good. I don't like anything about this.
    Thanks for listening. How about this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    dk

    After having listened for 10sec I think it's argerich? I haven't even heard the piano.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Sun Nov 6 09:29:33 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 5. November 2022 um 07:25:20 UTC+1:
    On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 21:43:38 UTC+1:
    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    Not good. I don't like anything about this.
    Thanks for listening. How about this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    dk

    I don't really like her in Mozart, except maybe with Szymon Goldberg in 503 - maybe I should relisten. But no, thinking about it, Michelangeli (even though the orchestra is not really good) is much better in 503.

    Dan, I don't understand how once you could recommend me YES in 466 if your reference is Schnabel...

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to Marc S on Sun Nov 6 09:22:52 2022
    Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 6. November 2022 um 18:22:16 UTC+1:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 5. November 2022 um 07:25:20 UTC+1:
    On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 21:43:38 UTC+1:
    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    Not good. I don't like anything about this.
    Thanks for listening. How about this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    dk
    After having listened for 10sec I think it's argerich? I haven't even heard the piano.

    No. I don't like.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to Marc S on Sun Nov 6 09:24:57 2022
    Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 6. November 2022 um 18:22:54 UTC+1:
    Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 6. November 2022 um 18:22:16 UTC+1:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 5. November 2022 um 07:25:20 UTC+1:
    On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 21:43:38 UTC+1:
    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    Not good. I don't like anything about this.
    Thanks for listening. How about this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    dk
    After having listened for 10sec I think it's argerich? I haven't even heard the piano.
    No. I don't like.

    Pretty sure it's the record I have in mind, I have listened to it about 1-2 years ago... and I think it is not good. I'm gonna feel stupid if I'm wrong, but I was immediately reminded. Maybe I should hear the piano ;D

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Sun Nov 6 20:50:31 2022
    On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:29:35 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

    Dan, I don't understand how once you could
    recommend me YES in 466 if your reference
    is Schnabel...

    Suggestions to listen do not imply ranking. I
    did not recommend YES as "the best KV 466",
    merely one worth listening. There are more
    ways than one to skin a score.

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Sun Nov 6 20:52:53 2022
    On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:22:54 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
    Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 6. November 2022 um 18:22:16 UTC+1:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 5. November 2022 um 07:25:20 UTC+1:
    On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 21:43:38 UTC+1:
    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    Not good. I don't like anything about this.
    Thanks for listening. How about this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    After having listened for 10sec I think it's
    argerich? I haven't even heard the piano.

    No. I don't like.

    Contradicting yourself once again!
    You walked into a well laid trap.
    Didn't you say Argerich was the
    only woman pianist you would
    listen to ?!?

    BTW while this performance is
    not exactly my first choice, it is
    certainly interesting enough to
    hear.

    dk

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Mon Nov 7 00:55:55 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 05:50:34 UTC+1:
    On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:29:35 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

    Dan, I don't understand how once you could
    recommend me YES in 466 if your reference
    is Schnabel...
    Suggestions to listen do not imply ranking. I
    did not recommend YES as "the best KV 466",
    merely one worth listening. There are more
    ways than one to skin a score.

    dk

    It is not worth listening to after one has heard Schnabel. Too often you really are an idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Mon Nov 7 00:57:50 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 05:52:55 UTC+1:
    On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:22:54 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
    Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 6. November 2022 um 18:22:16 UTC+1:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 5. November 2022 um 07:25:20 UTC+1:
    On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 21:43:38 UTC+1:
    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    Not good. I don't like anything about this.
    Thanks for listening. How about this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    After having listened for 10sec I think it's
    argerich? I haven't even heard the piano.

    No. I don't like.
    Contradicting yourself once again!
    You walked into a well laid trap.
    Didn't you say Argerich was the
    only woman pianist you would
    listen to ?!?

    Dan, I really don't have time for this. I have not contradicted myself, learn to read you fucking idiot. You contradict yourself quite often btw.

    I explained that the only repertoire I like Argerich in is outside of Bach, Mozart and Brahms. You are almost as stupid as Herman ;D


    BTW while this performance is
    not exactly my first choice, it is
    certainly interesting enough to
    hear.

    dk

    No, it isn't. Now go fuck yourself ;D

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to Marc S on Mon Nov 7 01:00:06 2022
    Marc S schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 09:57:53 UTC+1:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 05:52:55 UTC+1:
    On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 9:22:54 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
    Marc S schrieb am Sonntag, 6. November 2022 um 18:22:16 UTC+1:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 5. November 2022 um 07:25:20 UTC+1:
    On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 um 21:43:38 UTC+1:
    What do you think of this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    Not good. I don't like anything about this.
    Thanks for listening. How about this one?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp9x3guylwkn47a/KV%20466.mp3?dl=0

    After having listened for 10sec I think it's
    argerich? I haven't even heard the piano.

    No. I don't like.
    Contradicting yourself once again!
    You walked into a well laid trap.
    Didn't you say Argerich was the
    only woman pianist you would
    listen to ?!?
    Dan, I really don't have time for this. I have not contradicted myself, learn to read you fucking idiot. You contradict yourself quite often btw.

    I explained that the only repertoire I like Argerich in is outside of Bach, Mozart and Brahms.

    and Beethoven.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Mon Nov 7 13:53:31 2022
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 1:00:09 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

    I explained that the only repertoire I like Argerich
    in is outside of Bach, Mozart and Brahms.

    and Beethoven.

    Really surprising since LvB PCs 1 and 2 are
    staples of her repertoire. Her recordings of
    the two are among the finest, arguably the
    best post-Schnabel performanced of these
    works. I prefer the earlier recordings with
    the London Sinfonietta to the later ones
    with Abbado, Ozawa or Sinopoli.

    dk

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Mon Nov 7 14:35:36 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 22:53:33 UTC+1:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 1:00:09 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

    I explained that the only repertoire I like Argerich
    in is outside of Bach, Mozart and Brahms.

    and Beethoven.
    Really surprising since LvB PCs 1 and 2 are
    staples of her repertoire. Her recordings of
    the two are among the finest, arguably the
    best post-Schnabel performanced of these
    works. I prefer the earlier recordings with
    the London Sinfonietta to the later ones
    with Abbado, Ozawa or Sinopoli.

    dk

    I liked her in LvB PC2 actually a few years ago, but never _really_. You might be right about this though, that she is the best post Schnabel in these two... I'm trying to think of another one....

    I just don't listen to LvB PCs much tbh... I only like 4 and maybe 3. I should relisten to 2 with Schnabel probably, but 1 and 5 are not to my taste. And I'm also not sure if I would rate them as high as Bach's, Mozart's or Brahms'. I think not.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Mon Nov 7 14:47:16 2022
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:35:39 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 22:53:33 UTC+1:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 1:00:09 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

    I explained that the only repertoire I like Argerich
    in is outside of Bach, Mozart and Brahms.

    and Beethoven.
    Really surprising since LvB PCs 1 and 2 are
    staples of her repertoire. Her recordings of
    the two are among the finest, arguably the
    best post-Schnabel performanced of these
    works. I prefer the earlier recordings with
    the London Sinfonietta to the later ones
    with Abbado, Ozawa or Sinopoli.

    I liked her in LvB PC2 actually a few years ago,
    but never _really_. You might be right about this
    though, that she is the best post Schnabel in these
    two... I'm trying to think of another one....

    I just don't listen to LvB PCs much tbh... I only like 4
    and maybe 3. I should relisten to 2 with Schnabel
    probably, but 1 and 5 are not to my taste. And I'm
    also not sure if I would rate them as high as Bach's,
    Mozart's or Brahms'. I think not.

    I only listen to 1, 2 and 4. I find 3 extremely boring,
    and 5 extremely pompeous. IMHO the best, most
    enjoyable and most listenable 5 concerti set is by
    SS.

    dk

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Mon Nov 7 15:00:22 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 23:47:19 UTC+1:
    I only listen to 1, 2 and 4. I find 3 extremely boring,
    and 5 extremely pompeous. IMHO the best, most
    enjoyable and most listenable 5 concerti set is by
    SS.

    dk

    I just really don't like the 1... pa-pam-pam-pam..................

    yes 5 is way too much. And 3 I really haven't heard it in a quite a while... but I think it's still better than the others probably (would have to relisten to 2). But like I said, not too interested. I think Beethoven is better with Symphonies, quartets,
    trios and violon and piano sonatas... not so sure about Missa (which I think he considered one of/his greatest work/s), but there is some beautiful stuff in it. Not a fan of fidelio.

    SS is fine, I know you wouldn't, but I would pick beethoven over him. Sokolov, Richter, Rubinstein are top for me (they haven't recored them all if I remember correctly).

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Marc S on Mon Nov 7 15:08:50 2022
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:00:26 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 23:47:19 UTC+1:
    I only listen to 1, 2 and 4. I find 3 extremely boring,
    and 5 extremely pompeous. IMHO the best, most
    enjoyable and most listenable 5 concerti set is by
    SS.

    I just really don't like the 1... pa-pam-pam-pam..................

    yes 5 is way too much. And 3 I really haven't heard it
    in a quite a while... but I think it's still better than the
    others probably (would have to relisten to 2). But like

    If I had to pick just one, it would be no. 2.

    I said, not too interested. I think Beethoven is better
    with Symphonies, quartets, trios and violon and piano
    sonatas... not so sure about Missa (which I think he
    considered one of/his greatest work/s), but there is
    some beautiful stuff in it. Not a fan of fidelio.

    I don't like the Mess, nor do I like the Grossest Fugue.

    SS is fine, I know you wouldn't, but I would pick
    beethoven over him. Sokolov, Richter, Rubinstein
    are top for me (they haven't recored them all if I
    remember correctly).

    I suppose you are referring to Richter's Egyptian,
    right? He recorded the 2nd late in his career, and
    it was subpar. Fabienne Jacquinot recorded a
    fabulous no. 5:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHjPrO1BCWA

    Grosevnor and Pletnev have superb no. 2 readings:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YgrjLO-eZQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93GD9UWusjE

    Judging from your comments, the latter may not
    be your cup of tea.

    dk

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  • From raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com@21:1/5 to dan....gmail.com on Mon Nov 7 15:22:55 2022
    On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 09:47:19 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:35:39 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
    dan....gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 22:53:33 UTC+1:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 1:00:09 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

    I explained that the only repertoire I like Argerich
    in is outside of Bach, Mozart and Brahms.

    and Beethoven.
    Really surprising since LvB PCs 1 and 2 are
    staples of her repertoire. Her recordings of
    the two are among the finest, arguably the
    best post-Schnabel performanced of these
    works. I prefer the earlier recordings with
    the London Sinfonietta to the later ones
    with Abbado, Ozawa or Sinopoli.

    I liked her in LvB PC2 actually a few years ago,
    but never _really_. You might be right about this
    though, that she is the best post Schnabel in these
    two... I'm trying to think of another one....

    I just don't listen to LvB PCs much tbh... I only like 4
    and maybe 3. I should relisten to 2 with Schnabel
    probably, but 1 and 5 are not to my taste. And I'm
    also not sure if I would rate them as high as Bach's,
    Mozart's or Brahms'. I think not.
    I only listen to 1, 2 and 4. I find 3 extremely boring,
    and 5 extremely pompeous. IMHO the best, most
    enjoyable and most listenable 5 concerti set is by
    SS.

    dk

    Maybe it is because I have never saturated my listening with LvBs pcs is still he reason I find them relatively fresh. Saint Saens' concertos are fun, but not on the same level as LvBs. Many works of LvBs period, and especially LvBs, were miracles of
    their time, whereby many people were lucky to have even heard them once. I just happen to think that something happens when you know them backwards. This applies to a lot of music, and why I try and encompass a much wider repertoire of interest.

    Ray Hall, Taree

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Mon Nov 7 15:28:10 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 00:08:53 UTC+1:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:00:26 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 23:47:19 UTC+1:
    I only listen to 1, 2 and 4. I find 3 extremely boring,
    and 5 extremely pompeous. IMHO the best, most
    enjoyable and most listenable 5 concerti set is by
    SS.

    I just really don't like the 1... pa-pam-pam-pam..................

    yes 5 is way too much. And 3 I really haven't heard it
    in a quite a while... but I think it's still better than the
    others probably (would have to relisten to 2). But like
    If I had to pick just one, it would be no. 2.
    I said, not too interested. I think Beethoven is better
    with Symphonies, quartets, trios and violon and piano
    sonatas... not so sure about Missa (which I think he
    considered one of/his greatest work/s), but there is
    some beautiful stuff in it. Not a fan of fidelio.
    I don't like the Mess, nor do I like the Grossest Fugue.
    SS is fine, I know you wouldn't, but I would pick
    beethoven over him. Sokolov, Richter, Rubinstein
    are top for me (they haven't recored them all if I
    remember correctly).
    I suppose you are referring to Richter's Egyptian,
    right? He recorded the 2nd late in his career, and
    it was subpar. Fabienne Jacquinot recorded a
    fabulous no. 5:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHjPrO1BCWA

    Grosevnor and Pletnev have superb no. 2 readings:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YgrjLO-eZQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93GD9UWusjE

    Judging from your comments, the latter may not
    be your cup of tea.

    dk

    I wouldn't doubt that they both have good readings in no.2, but I would doubt they come close to young Sokolov's (that I know from you).

    Thanks for your time in linking the stuff etc, but it's not just the pianists, it's the repertoire that I am not interested in.

    I'm interested in Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Schoenberg - still undecided about Schubert and Webern. Remember: Austro-Germanic Repertoire. Baruch Hashem ;D

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  • From Frank Berger@21:1/5 to raymond....@gmail.com on Mon Nov 7 18:32:29 2022
    On 11/7/2022 6:22 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 09:47:19 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:35:39 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
    dan....gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 22:53:33 UTC+1: >>>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 1:00:09 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

    I explained that the only repertoire I like Argerich
    in is outside of Bach, Mozart and Brahms.

    and Beethoven.
    Really surprising since LvB PCs 1 and 2 are
    staples of her repertoire. Her recordings of
    the two are among the finest, arguably the
    best post-Schnabel performanced of these
    works. I prefer the earlier recordings with
    the London Sinfonietta to the later ones
    with Abbado, Ozawa or Sinopoli.

    I liked her in LvB PC2 actually a few years ago,
    but never _really_. You might be right about this
    though, that she is the best post Schnabel in these
    two... I'm trying to think of another one....

    I just don't listen to LvB PCs much tbh... I only like 4
    and maybe 3. I should relisten to 2 with Schnabel
    probably, but 1 and 5 are not to my taste. And I'm
    also not sure if I would rate them as high as Bach's,
    Mozart's or Brahms'. I think not.
    I only listen to 1, 2 and 4. I find 3 extremely boring,
    and 5 extremely pompeous. IMHO the best, most
    enjoyable and most listenable 5 concerti set is by
    SS.

    dk

    Maybe it is because I have never saturated my listening with LvBs pcs is still he reason I find them relatively fresh. Saint Saens' concertos are fun, but not on the same level as LvBs. Many works of LvBs period, and especially LvBs, were miracles of
    their time, whereby many people were lucky to have even heard them once. I just happen to think that something happens when you know them backwards. This applies to a lot of music, and why I try and encompass a much wider repertoire of interest.

    Ray Hall, Taree


    In economics, that's called diminishing marginal utility. The more you have of something, the less each additional unit is valued. Of course, everyone's rate of diminishing utility is different.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Frank Berger on Mon Nov 7 17:12:58 2022
    On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 10:32:37 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
    On 11/7/2022 6:22 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 09:47:19 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:35:39 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
    dan....gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 22:53:33 UTC+1: >>>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 1:00:09 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

    I explained that the only repertoire I like Argerich
    in is outside of Bach, Mozart and Brahms.

    and Beethoven.
    Really surprising since LvB PCs 1 and 2 are
    staples of her repertoire. Her recordings of
    the two are among the finest, arguably the
    best post-Schnabel performanced of these
    works. I prefer the earlier recordings with
    the London Sinfonietta to the later ones
    with Abbado, Ozawa or Sinopoli.

    I liked her in LvB PC2 actually a few years ago,
    but never _really_. You might be right about this
    though, that she is the best post Schnabel in these
    two... I'm trying to think of another one....

    I just don't listen to LvB PCs much tbh... I only like 4
    and maybe 3. I should relisten to 2 with Schnabel
    probably, but 1 and 5 are not to my taste. And I'm
    also not sure if I would rate them as high as Bach's,
    Mozart's or Brahms'. I think not.
    I only listen to 1, 2 and 4. I find 3 extremely boring,
    and 5 extremely pompeous. IMHO the best, most
    enjoyable and most listenable 5 concerti set is by
    SS.

    dk

    Maybe it is because I have never saturated my listening with LvBs pcs is still he reason I find them relatively fresh. Saint Saens' concertos are fun, but not on the same level as LvBs. Many works of LvBs period, and especially LvBs, were miracles of
    their time, whereby many people were lucky to have even heard them once. I just happen to think that something happens when you know them backwards. This applies to a lot of music, and why I try and encompass a much wider repertoire of interest.

    Ray Hall, Taree
    In economics, that's called diminishing marginal utility. The more you have of something, the less each additional unit is valued. Of course, everyone's rate of diminishing utility is different.

    No. This has nothing whatsoever to do with economics, and has nothing to do with music as a possession. I can possess as much music as time will allow, as is the case for nearly all here. I am referring to the "quality" of a resource being undervalued as
    a result of saturation or over-indulgence. Economics will never account for the quality of anything, except in terms of "more things are better or not better than less things".

    In physics, energy copes with my meaning much better. It comes down to a question of entropy, and the usefulness of energy. Entropy has nothing to do with simply an amount of something, but much more to do with availability, usefulness, and the quality
    of that energy.

    Ray Hall, Taree

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to raymond....@gmail.com on Mon Nov 7 17:36:43 2022
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 5:13:01 PM UTC-8, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:

    In physics, energy copes with my meaning much
    better. It comes down to a question of entropy,
    and the usefulness of energy. Entropy has nothing
    to do with simply an amount of something, but much
    more to do with availability, usefulness, and the quality
    of that energy.

    Are you trying to teach Physics to an economist?
    One might just as well preach to the birds, or try
    walking on a lake! ;-)

    Let's keep physics between the two of us! No
    one else on r.m.c.r. has the slightest idea what
    Physics is, or why it might even be useful! ;-)

    dk

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  • From raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com@21:1/5 to dan....gmail.com on Mon Nov 7 21:25:12 2022
    On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 12:36:47 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 5:13:01 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:

    In physics, energy copes with my meaning much
    better. It comes down to a question of entropy,
    and the usefulness of energy. Entropy has nothing
    to do with simply an amount of something, but much
    more to do with availability, usefulness, and the quality
    of that energy.
    Are you trying to teach Physics to an economist?
    One might just as well preach to the birds, or try
    walking on a lake! ;-)

    Let's keep physics between the two of us! No
    one else on r.m.c.r. has the slightest idea what
    Physics is, or why it might even be useful! ;-)

    dk

    I think many do actually, if not in particular theory, and maybe it is better put another way. I enjoy a wide variety of music, mostly very late 19th century up to the present, Bach being a standout exception, especially his cantatas. I wear easily of a
    piece if I over-saturate on it. There are a few exceptions, as there always is. I think LvB was a great composer, one of the greatest, for form especially, and was particularly of his time, and in his late works for more than that. But form and greatness
    doesn't necessarily transfer to listening pleasure especially if overindulged. I even tire at times of Sibelius. Music is precious, and for me this means limiting my exposure, even to pieces I greatly love.

    Hence I travel widely in the music repertoire, in order to keep the music I treasure much fresher. I need the wow factor a lot more than maybe many others.

    Ray Hall, Taree

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  • From Frank Berger@21:1/5 to raymond....@gmail.com on Tue Nov 8 00:40:16 2022
    On 11/7/2022 8:12 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 10:32:37 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
    On 11/7/2022 6:22 PM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 09:47:19 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote: >>>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 2:35:39 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:
    dan....gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 7. November 2022 um 22:53:33 UTC+1: >>>>>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 1:00:09 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

    I explained that the only repertoire I like Argerich
    in is outside of Bach, Mozart and Brahms.

    and Beethoven.
    Really surprising since LvB PCs 1 and 2 are
    staples of her repertoire. Her recordings of
    the two are among the finest, arguably the
    best post-Schnabel performanced of these
    works. I prefer the earlier recordings with
    the London Sinfonietta to the later ones
    with Abbado, Ozawa or Sinopoli.

    I liked her in LvB PC2 actually a few years ago,
    but never _really_. You might be right about this
    though, that she is the best post Schnabel in these
    two... I'm trying to think of another one....

    I just don't listen to LvB PCs much tbh... I only like 4
    and maybe 3. I should relisten to 2 with Schnabel
    probably, but 1 and 5 are not to my taste. And I'm
    also not sure if I would rate them as high as Bach's,
    Mozart's or Brahms'. I think not.
    I only listen to 1, 2 and 4. I find 3 extremely boring,
    and 5 extremely pompeous. IMHO the best, most
    enjoyable and most listenable 5 concerti set is by
    SS.

    dk

    Maybe it is because I have never saturated my listening with LvBs pcs is still he reason I find them relatively fresh. Saint Saens' concertos are fun, but not on the same level as LvBs. Many works of LvBs period, and especially LvBs, were miracles of
    their time, whereby many people were lucky to have even heard them once. I just happen to think that something happens when you know them backwards. This applies to a lot of music, and why I try and encompass a much wider repertoire of interest.

    Ray Hall, Taree
    In economics, that's called diminishing marginal utility. The more you have of something, the less each additional unit is valued. Of course, everyone's rate of diminishing utility is different.

    No. This has nothing whatsoever to do with economics, and has nothing to do with music as a possession. I can possess as much music as time will allow, as is the case for nearly all here. I am referring to the "quality" of a resource being undervalued
    as a result of saturation or over-indulgence. Economics will never account for the quality of anything, except in terms of "more things are better or not better than less things".


    No. You have described the principle of diminishing marginal utility perfectly. There can more than one way of looking at things, both of which are right.

    In physics, energy copes with my meaning much better. It comes down to a question of entropy, and the usefulness of energy. Entropy has nothing to do with simply an amount of something, but much more to do with availability, usefulness, and the quality
    of that energy.

    Ray Hall, Taree

    I don't know physics well. But I know it is an attempt to describe physical phenomena. Economics tries to describe human behavior, specifically choice.

    There is no reason for us to be arguing about this.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Frank Berger on Mon Nov 7 23:39:33 2022
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:40:27 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:

    I don't know physics well.

    Par for the course. Most
    people don't, including
    economists. ;-)

    But I know it is an attempt to
    describe physical phenomena.
    Economics tries to describe
    human behavior, specifically
    choice.

    Physics appears to be so far
    rather more successful than
    Economics. ;-)

    There is no reason for us
    to be arguing about this.

    Please provide another
    topic to argue about! ;-)

    dk

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Tue Nov 8 01:09:22 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 08:39:36 UTC+1:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:40:27 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:

    I don't know physics well.
    Par for the course. Most
    people don't, including
    economists. ;-)

    Seems to be the case for some physicsts as well... remember: Einstein running to Hilbert ;)

    Also: Hilbert about the Mathematical Institute after the Nazis came to power:

    About a year later, Hilbert attended a banquet and was seated next to the new Minister of Education, Bernhard Rust. Rust asked whether "the Mathematical Institute really suffered so much because of the departure of the Jews". Hilbert replied, "Suffered?
    It doesn't exist any longer, does it!"

    But I know it is an attempt to
    describe physical phenomena.
    Economics tries to describe
    human behavior, specifically
    choice.
    Physics appears to be so far
    rather more successful than
    Economics. ;-)
    There is no reason for us
    to be arguing about this.
    Please provide another
    topic to argue about! ;-)

    dk

    Pletnev?

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  • From Frank Berger@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Tue Nov 8 07:28:23 2022
    On 11/8/2022 2:39 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:40:27 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:

    I don't know physics well.

    Par for the course. Most
    people don't, including
    economists. ;-)

    But I know it is an attempt to
    describe physical phenomena.
    Economics tries to describe
    human behavior, specifically
    choice.

    Physics appears to be so far
    rather more successful than
    Economics. ;-)


    It's an older science? It's an easier subject? Physicists are deluded into thinking they are more successful than economists because the understand economics less than economists understand phsysics? I could go on.

    There is no reason for us
    to be arguing about this.

    Please provide another
    topic to argue about! ;-)

    When did you stop beating your wife?
    dk

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to Frank Berger on Tue Nov 8 06:16:00 2022
    Frank Berger schrieb am Dienstag, 8. November 2022 um 13:28:31 UTC+1:
    On 11/8/2022 2:39 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:40:27 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:

    I don't know physics well.

    Par for the course. Most
    people don't, including
    economists. ;-)

    But I know it is an attempt to
    describe physical phenomena.
    Economics tries to describe
    human behavior, specifically
    choice.

    Physics appears to be so far
    rather more successful than
    Economics. ;-)

    It's an older science? It's an easier subject? Physicists are deluded into thinking they are more successful than economists because the understand economics less than economists understand phsysics? I could go on.

    Economists understand economics? Untrue. They always make wrong predictions ;)

    It seems they don't have any clue what they are doing (compared to Marx ;) ), after crises they offer 1000 different explanations of why something has happened... This alone shows that are completely clueless, because if 1 of these 1000 different
    explanations was right in the first place, there wouldn't be a need for 1000 different explanations ;D

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Frank Berger on Tue Nov 8 12:55:21 2022
    On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 4:28:31 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:

    Physicists are deluded into thinking they are
    more successful than economists because
    the understand economics less than economists
    understand phsysics? I could go on.

    Don't bother, just check this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project

    Most amazing applied physics and engineering
    project in history. From back of the envelope
    computations to a perfectly working system
    in less than 4 years.

    Note this is not a comment on the ethical
    aspects (or lack thereof) of the A bomb.

    dk

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  • From Frank Berger@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Tue Nov 8 16:10:16 2022
    On 11/8/2022 3:55 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 4:28:31 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:

    Physicists are deluded into thinking they are
    more successful than economists because
    the understand economics less than economists
    understand phsysics? I could go on.

    Don't bother, just check this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project

    Most amazing applied physics and engineering
    project in history. From back of the envelope
    computations to a perfectly working system
    in less than 4 years.

    Note this is not a comment on the ethical
    aspects (or lack thereof) of the A bomb.

    dk


    Even if it is what you say, it could just be easier to bring of than some miraculous economic event. I will say that I suspect that most physicists, most of the time, are open to new developments in the field, which I'm not sure I can say about many
    economists. When the chairman of the Federal Reserve can says, in 2022, that we don't understand a lot about inflation, when in fact, we understand everything about it, and have for more than 50 years is disheartening.

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  • From raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com@21:1/5 to dan....gmail.com on Tue Nov 8 13:21:04 2022
    On Wednesday, 9 November 2022 at 07:55:24 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 4:28:31 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:

    Physicists are deluded into thinking they are
    more successful than economists because
    the understand economics less than economists
    understand phsysics? I could go on.
    Don't bother, just check this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project

    Most amazing applied physics and engineering
    project in history. From back of the envelope
    computations to a perfectly working system
    in less than 4 years.

    Note this is not a comment on the ethical
    aspects (or lack thereof) of the A bomb.

    dk

    Known as Oak Ridge, Tn, enrichment facility. The first bomb was Trinity, and was friendly. Oppenheimer and General Groves. Makes a good read.

    Ray Hall, Taree

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