My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of
their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos
are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of
a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 12:05:21 AM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:of Scarlatti and it drove me crazy.
My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of
a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
This is lifted from the WAYTL topic.
I am not aware of any 'popularity' of Scarlatti. Some pro performers play a couple Scarlatti pieces as warm-ups or encores, and of course their are a lot of amateur pianists who play Scarlatti sonatas at home. I once sat through a recital of 45 minutes
Telemann is an excellent composer for amateur recorder or violin. Of course professional performers would make a much better job of it, however nothing could move me to buy a Telemann CD. Telemann did not compose for CD players but for people who couldplay or perform his music, and that's what they're doing right now. I call that successful.
I wouldn't really know how to measure whether Vivaldi is better than Telemann, and it's a fairly meaningless exercise anyway. Perhaps his melodic gift was a little stronger.
(2022 Y. upload):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-JaVGYG2i8&t=1512s
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 5:51:06 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:minutes of Scarlatti and it drove me crazy.
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 12:05:21 AM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:
My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
This is lifted from the WAYTL topic.
I am not aware of any 'popularity' of Scarlatti. Some pro performers play a couple Scarlatti pieces as warm-ups or encores, and of course their are a lot of amateur pianists who play Scarlatti sonatas at home. I once sat through a recital of 45
could play or perform his music, and that's what they're doing right now. I call that successful.Telemann is an excellent composer for amateur recorder or violin. Of course professional performers would make a much better job of it, however nothing could move me to buy a Telemann CD. Telemann did not compose for CD players but for people who
from the 555. These cherry picked sonatas are usually taken from say, those 300 or so which are gems (yes, that’s still a lot).I wouldn't really know how to measure whether Vivaldi is better than Telemann, and it's a fairly meaningless exercise anyway. Perhaps his melodic gift was a little stronger.Scarlatti has always been my favorite baroque composer after Bach. I don’t quite agree that all 555 sonatas are gems. That illusion is likely perpetuated by the fact that the vast majority of Scarlatti Sonata recordings are cherry-picked selections
Listen to some of the volumes on the Naxos complete series (with different pianists). Take any single CD and you’ll find a mix of gems mixed with forgettable works. The superlative pianists in that series (Scherbakov and Frith) are great enough tomake even the 2nd rate Sonatas sound interesting.
I would never buy complete sets from one performer, like Scott Ross or Belder or Grante. It’s too much - quantity does not equal quality IMO.
Scarlatti has always been my favorite baroque composer after Bach.
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 3:00:03 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
Scarlatti has always been my favorite baroque composer after Bach.wow, that's interesting. It doesn't bug you that it's all in the same tiny genre of keyboard miniature?
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 10:30:57 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:miniatures and little else.
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 3:00:03 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
Well, you’re right and wrong about that. He did compose other music, particularly religious choral music and others. But you’re right the keyboard sonatas are his claim to fame. Some recordings make him sound like the composer of sparklingScarlatti has always been my favorite baroque composer after Bach.wow, that's interesting. It doesn't bug you that it's all in the same tiny genre of keyboard miniature?
But to hear his full range you have to hear it from a performer who has a big imagination as opposed to just crisp fingers. Most people would reject my recommendation, but the recording that really demonstrates Scarlatti as a genius way ahead of histime and daring as well are the recordings by Landowska. A romantic approach to many of the sonatas have always been highly convincing to me and her choice of sonatas show Scarlatti’s astounding range.
I also have my prejudices – one of them being that the endless Concerti Grossi by the likes of Albinoni and Locatelli and friends bore me to tears. In fact classical FM stations play them constantly because of their deep vanilla flavor. Of coursethere are other great baroque composers, Handel, Purcell, and, Rameau to name a few.
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 12:05:21 AM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:of Scarlatti and it drove me crazy.
My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of
a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
This is lifted from the WAYTL topic.
I am not aware of any 'popularity' of Scarlatti. Some pro performers play a couple Scarlatti pieces as warm-ups or encores, and of course their are a lot of amateur pianists who play Scarlatti sonatas at home. I once sat through a recital of 45 minutes
Telemann is an excellent composer for amateur recorder or violin. Of course professional performers would make a much better job of it, however nothing could move me to buy a Telemann CD. Telemann did not compose for CD players but for people who couldplay or perform his music, and that's what they're doing right now. I call that successful.
I wouldn't really know how to measure whether Vivaldi is better than Telemann, and it's a fairly meaningless exercise anyway. Perhaps his melodic gift was a little stronger.
I also have my prejudices – one of them being that the endless Concerti Grossi by the likes of Albinoni and Locatelli and friends bore me to tears. In fact classical FM stations play them constantly because of their deep vanilla flavor. Of coursethere are other great baroque composers, Handel, Purcell, and, Rameau to name a few.
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 12:05:21 AM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:of Scarlatti and it drove me crazy.
My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of
their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of
concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos
are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of
recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti
sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so
seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of
a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach
suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
This is lifted from the WAYTL topic.
I am not aware of any 'popularity' of Scarlatti. Some pro performers play a couple Scarlatti pieces as warm-ups or encores, and of course their are a lot of amateur pianists who play Scarlatti sonatas at home. I once sat through a recital of 45 minutes
Telemann is an excellent composer for amateur recorder or violin. Of course professional performers would make a much better job of it, however nothing could move me to buy a Telemann CD. Telemann did not compose for CD players but for people who couldplay or perform his music, and that's what they're doing right now. I call that successful.
I wouldn't really know how to measure whether Vivaldi is better than Telemann, and it's a fairly meaningless exercise anyway. Perhaps his melodic gift was a little stronger.
As for Scarlatti's popularity, for sure I'm approaching this from my own perspective. I'm always impressed by composers who make magic out of the smallest things, and the variety of the Scarlatti sonatas amazes me
As for the popularity of Scarlatti, I'll leave it up to the piano folks
to comment.(I'm not one though I was a student of Charles Rosen - don't ask).
About my claim about every one of the Scarlatti's being a "gem", while I must have been admonished a million times about my habit of
exaggerating, so many of of them are diamonds that it shouldn't matter
that a few are merely pearls...
One thing worth considering is that Scarlatti had access to pianos in Maria Magdalena Barbara’s instrument collection. [...] He’s an important composer partly because he was one of the first to explore the piano’s potential.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 7:08:37 AM UTC+2, Mandryka wrote:in our age.
One thing worth considering is that Scarlatti had access to pianos in Maria Magdalena Barbara’s instrument collection. [...] He’s an important composer partly because he was one of the first to explore the piano’s potential.
I don't know about that. One might as well say Scarlatti's music shows he was very much interested in imitating the dry plucked sound of the guitar and lute which is easier achieved on harpsichord and clavichord than on pianoforte.
It is hard to escape the impression that there is a lot of conclusion-oriented talking of people who desperately want early eighteenth century composers to be anticipating the Steinway piano, even if there is no reason why they would.
It's like the arms industry. I mean, there is that silly old guy Seymour B. who sans blushing says 'if JSB had lived in our age he'd chosen a Steinway' - while the whole point of JSB (and his contemporaries, among whom Scarlatti) is they did NOT live
And to give a concrete example, try these two performances of Scarlatti's K 516, both played by Enrico Baiano, the first on a harpsichord, the second on a piano
https://open.spotify.com/track/0odEubBe24GZpsLDc1uxH7?si=f3e32fa57d1f4729 https://open.spotify.com/track/0odEubBe24GZpsLDc1uxH7?si=f3e32fa57d1f4729
One might as well say Scarlatti's music shows he was very much
interested in imitating the dry plucked sound of the guitar and lute
which is easier achieved on harpsichord and clavichord than on
pianoforte.
This is one that works for me. Rhythm without erratic rubato and color.
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 12:05:21 AM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:of Scarlatti and it drove me crazy.
My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of
their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of
concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos
are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of
recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti
sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so
seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of
a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach
suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
This is lifted from the WAYTL topic.
I am not aware of any 'popularity' of Scarlatti. Some pro performers play a couple Scarlatti pieces as warm-ups or encores, and of course their are a lot of amateur pianists who play Scarlatti sonatas at home. I once sat through a recital of 45 minutes
Telemann is an excellent composer for amateur recorder or violin. Of course professional performers would make a much better job of it, however nothing could move me to buy a Telemann CD. Telemann did not compose for CD players but for people who couldplay or perform his music, and that's what they're doing right now. I call that successful.
I wouldn't really know how to measure whether Vivaldi is better than Telemann, and it's a fairly meaningless exercise anyway. Perhaps his melodic gift was a little stronger.
On 10/26/22 2:15 AM, Herman wrote:
One might as well say Scarlatti's music shows he was very muchIt's been suggested the thick added-note chords and acciaccaturi are
interested in imitating the dry plucked sound of the guitar and lute
which is easier achieved on harpsichord and clavichord than on
pianoforte.
suited to the Cristofori because of the relatively mellow attacks.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 1:05:43 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:the same - track after track. YUK.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 12:20:00 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
This is one that works for me. Rhythm without erratic rubato and color.
And why would 'rubato and color' on a (copy of an) instrument of the era be erratic?
Why would pre-Beethoven musicians all have played like robots?
To me this makes these Puyana performances unbearable. And of course the horrible modern harpsichords he used.You lost me at “of course” and ‘horrible”. I should have said Rhythm without erratic rubato and WITH color. I will occasionally scroll through the tracks of an “authentic” harpsichord recording on Spotify and the timbre is always exactly
But I have to admit. There’s one thing that I’m highly curious about regarding historic harpsichords. If you throw them into a river will they float or will they sink? Can I start an experiment with the one from your household?
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 12:20:00 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
This is one that works for me. Rhythm without erratic rubato and color.
And why would 'rubato and color' on a (copy of an) instrument of the era be erratic?
Why would pre-Beethoven musicians all have played like robots?
To me this makes these Puyana performances unbearable. And of course the horrible modern harpsichords he used.
That is so funny. Not. You know, the 'firewood' thing has started a really nasty thing here. What a great idea, talking about destroying stuff from other people's homes.
'the timbre is always exactly the same - track after track'
You do know, do you, that harpsichords have different registers?
On 10/25/2022 5:51 AM, Herman wrote:minutes of Scarlatti and it drove me crazy.
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 12:05:21 AM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:
My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of
their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of
concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos >> are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of
recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti >> sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so >> seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of >> a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach
suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
This is lifted from the WAYTL topic.
I am not aware of any 'popularity' of Scarlatti. Some pro performers play a couple Scarlatti pieces as warm-ups or encores, and of course their are a lot of amateur pianists who play Scarlatti sonatas at home. I once sat through a recital of 45
could play or perform his music, and that's what they're doing right now. I call that successful.Telemann is an excellent composer for amateur recorder or violin. Of course professional performers would make a much better job of it, however nothing could move me to buy a Telemann CD. Telemann did not compose for CD players but for people who
I wouldn't really know how to measure whether Vivaldi is better than Telemann, and it's a fairly meaningless exercise anyway. Perhaps his melodic gift was a little stronger.For some reason, Scarlatti sonatas have been transferred to guitar more
(I'm quite sure) than any other composer of piano works, though the vast majority of the sonatas have probably NOT been arranged for guitar.
K. 322, K 380 and a few others have been played to death.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 8:17:53 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:the same - track after track. YUK.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 1:05:43 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 12:20:00 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:You lost me at “of course” and ‘horrible”. I should have said Rhythm without erratic rubato and WITH color. I will occasionally scroll through the tracks of an “authentic” harpsichord recording on Spotify and the timbre is always exactly
And why would 'rubato and color' on a (copy of an) instrument of the era be erratic?
This is one that works for me. Rhythm without erratic rubato and color. >>>>
Why would pre-Beethoven musicians all have played like robots?
To me this makes these Puyana performances unbearable. And of course the horrible modern harpsichords he used.
But I have to admit. There’s one thing that I’m highly curious about regarding historic harpsichords. If you throw them into a river will they float or will they sink? Can I start an experiment with the one from your household?
That is so funny. Not.
'the timbre is always exactly the same - track after track'
You do know, do you, that harpsichords have different registers? Also, there are different style hapsichords. French, Flemish and Italian. Most professional harpsichord soloists have several instruments, for different kinds of music.
If a composer were commercially minded, wouldn't it be more advantageous for him to compose music that could be played on as many different instruments as possible or to compose music that would also appeal to musicians who played other instruments?
I wonder if you could recommend
a few CDs that recorded the harpsichord more accurately, allowing the subtleties to be appreciated? (It could be ones of Scarlatti - or
Couperin, Frescobaldi, etc) Thanks!!
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 10:32:33 AM UTC-7, Steven Bornfeld wrote:minutes of Scarlatti and it drove me crazy.
On 10/25/2022 5:51 AM, Herman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 12:05:21 AM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:
My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of >> their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of
concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos
are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of
recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti
sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so
seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of >> a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach >> suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
This is lifted from the WAYTL topic.
I am not aware of any 'popularity' of Scarlatti. Some pro performers play a couple Scarlatti pieces as warm-ups or encores, and of course their are a lot of amateur pianists who play Scarlatti sonatas at home. I once sat through a recital of 45
could play or perform his music, and that's what they're doing right now. I call that successful.Telemann is an excellent composer for amateur recorder or violin. Of course professional performers would make a much better job of it, however nothing could move me to buy a Telemann CD. Telemann did not compose for CD players but for people who
If a composer were commercially minded, wouldn't it be more advantageous for him to compose music that could be played on as many different instruments as possible or to compose music that would also appeal to musicians who played other instruments?I wouldn't really know how to measure whether Vivaldi is better than Telemann, and it's a fairly meaningless exercise anyway. Perhaps his melodic gift was a little stronger.For some reason, Scarlatti sonatas have been transferred to guitar more (I'm quite sure) than any other composer of piano works, though the vast majority of the sonatas have probably NOT been arranged for guitar.
K. 322, K 380 and a few others have been played to death.
On 10/26/2022 2:58 PM, Herman wrote:
That is so funny. Not.
Having demonstrated over the years that you have no sense of humor (as
in zero) you couldn't possibly know what is funny to normal people.
One thing worth considering is that Scarlatti had access to pianos in Maria Magdalena Barbara’s instrument collection. Not pianos like modern instruments obvs., less pure pitches than that, and less power. But still, instruments with more dynamicvariation than a clavichord, and less brilliance than a harpsichord. He’s an important composer partly because he was one of the first to explore the piano’s potential. There’s a disc by Enrico Baiano on Stradivarius which explores this - a good
On 10/25/2022 5:51 AM, Herman wrote:minutes of Scarlatti and it drove me crazy.
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 12:05:21 AM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:
My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of
their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of
concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos >> are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of
recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti >> sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so >> seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of >> a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach
suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
This is lifted from the WAYTL topic.
I am not aware of any 'popularity' of Scarlatti. Some pro performers play a couple Scarlatti pieces as warm-ups or encores, and of course their are a lot of amateur pianists who play Scarlatti sonatas at home. I once sat through a recital of 45
could play or perform his music, and that's what they're doing right now. I call that successful.Telemann is an excellent composer for amateur recorder or violin. Of course professional performers would make a much better job of it, however nothing could move me to buy a Telemann CD. Telemann did not compose for CD players but for people who
I wouldn't really know how to measure whether Vivaldi is better than Telemann, and it's a fairly meaningless exercise anyway. Perhaps his melodic gift was a little stronger.For some reason, Scarlatti sonatas have been transferred to guitar more
(I'm quite sure) than any other composer of piano works, though the vast majority of the sonatas have probably NOT been arranged for guitar.
K. 322, K 380 and a few others have been played to death.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 8:15:52 AM UTC+1, Herman wrote:in our age.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 7:08:37 AM UTC+2, Mandryka wrote:
One thing worth considering is that Scarlatti had access to pianos in Maria Magdalena Barbara’s instrument collection. [...] He’s an important composer partly because he was one of the first to explore the piano’s potential.
I don't know about that. One might as well say Scarlatti's music shows he was very much interested in imitating the dry plucked sound of the guitar and lute which is easier achieved on harpsichord and clavichord than on pianoforte.
It is hard to escape the impression that there is a lot of conclusion-oriented talking of people who desperately want early eighteenth century composers to be anticipating the Steinway piano, even if there is no reason why they would.
It's like the arms industry. I mean, there is that silly old guy Seymour B. who sans blushing says 'if JSB had lived in our age he'd chosen a Steinway' - while the whole point of JSB (and his contemporaries, among whom Scarlatti) is they did NOT live
There has to be a first composer who wrote with piano sounds in mind. It’s not an unreasonable hypothesis that that composer was Scarlatti. His sponsor owned pianos, and some of his music seems to exploit instrumental effects. IMO it’s likely thathe was into timbres, he wasn’t really writing music which was abstracted from instruments like Art of Fugue, at least not always. So I’d say that playing Scarlatti on a piano - I mean a fortepiano - as a good thing to try. You don’t know how it can
On 10/26/22 4:26 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
On 10/26/2022 2:58 PM, Herman wrote:
That is so funny. Not.
Having demonstrated over the years that you have no sense of humor (as in zero) you couldn't possibly know what is funny to normal people.
Hi Frank!
While I have enormous respect for John Gavin (particularly when he agrees with me) that joke strikes too close to home for Herman
I also agree with Herman that we need less nastiness here
Certainly no one comes here for my (lame) attempts at humor, but hopefully this won't drive people away the way nastiness does.
One of the things that led me to become a participant here rather than a lurker is that, after years of dire predictions of its demise this group may be fading away. Think of how many members have gone over the last two years...
I'm trying my best to act like a... Tummler (if that is the right word)
And Frank, while I haven't always agreed with you, I appreciate your knowledge and the remarkable thoughtfulness of your posts.
I also agree with Herman that we need less nastiness here
You appear to have ignored, or not seen many of Herman's posts which are
rife with nastiness.
By starting more conversations and trying to be respectful I hope we can
help RMCR to thrive and grow.
Go for it. But don't hold your breath.
The way to get conversations back on topic
is to post on-topic.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 8:15:52 AM UTC+1, Herman wrote:in our age.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 7:08:37 AM UTC+2, Mandryka wrote:
One thing worth considering is that Scarlatti had access to pianos in Maria Magdalena Barbara’s instrument collection. [...] He’s an important composer partly because he was one of the first to explore the piano’s potential.
I don't know about that. One might as well say Scarlatti's music shows he was very much interested in imitating the dry plucked sound of the guitar and lute which is easier achieved on harpsichord and clavichord than on pianoforte.
It is hard to escape the impression that there is a lot of conclusion-oriented talking of people who desperately want early eighteenth century composers to be anticipating the Steinway piano, even if there is no reason why they would.
It's like the arms industry. I mean, there is that silly old guy Seymour B. who sans blushing says 'if JSB had lived in our age he'd chosen a Steinway' - while the whole point of JSB (and his contemporaries, among whom Scarlatti) is they did NOT live
There has to be a first composer who wrote with piano sounds in mind. It’s not an unreasonable hypothesis that that composer was Scarlatti. His sponsor owned pianos, and some of his music seems to exploit instrumental effects. IMO it’s likely thathe was into timbres, he wasn’t really writing music which was abstracted from instruments like Art of Fugue, at least not always. So I’d say that playing Scarlatti on a piano - I mean a fortepiano - as a good thing to try. You don’t know how it can
On 10/26/22 8:04 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
I also agree with Herman that we need less nastiness here
You appear to have ignored, or not seen many of Herman's posts which are rife with nastiness.
By starting more conversations and trying to be respectful I hope we can >> help RMCR to thrive and grow.
Go for it. But don't hold your breath.
The way to get conversations back on topicOne thing we should agree on is that - just like classical recordings -
is to post on-topic.
*we* could all be better!
And I have seen the bad blood here over the years, and certainly realize
that my habit of taking everyone's side at some point will result in my having no friends,,,
But that reminds me of a joke (everything does):
A couple walk into a priest's office.
Wife. We have not been getting along. We need your help in deciding
who is at fault! My husband is lazy and doesn't help around the house.
He neglects me and is always listening to that annoying music. He spends
our money on endless versions of Bruckner 8th so we can't afford to eat out...And his feet smell! It's definitely mainly his fault why we have a
bad relationship.
Priest. You're right.
Husband. Now wait a minute! My wife fritters away money on clothes, cosmetics, and geegaws. She is always gossiping with her friends or
posting on social media. Last night I was almost finished listening to Parsifal and she interrupted me to take out the trash just when I was
going to find out how it ends! She is obviously at fault!!
Priest. You're right.
Wife and Husband together. We can't both be right!!
Priest. You're right.
(A Tummler is someone that is employed by a resort to get folks to
socialize. He tells bad jokes and starts conversations to help lighten
the mood. I hope people don't mind my Tummling - let me know if you do).
I'll now take Frank's advice and get back to pontificating about music.
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go".
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 12:05:21 AM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:of Scarlatti and it drove me crazy.
My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of
a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
This is lifted from the WAYTL topic.
I am not aware of any 'popularity' of Scarlatti. Some pro performers play a couple Scarlatti pieces as warm-ups or encores, and of course their are a lot of amateur pianists who play Scarlatti sonatas at home. I once sat through a recital of 45 minutes
Telemann is an excellent composer for amateur recorder or violin. Of course professional performers would make a much better job of it, however nothing could move me to buy a Telemann CD. Telemann did not compose for CD players but for people who couldplay or perform his music, and that's what they're doing right now. I call that successful.
I wouldn't really know how to measure whether Vivaldi is better than Telemann, and it's a fairly meaningless exercise anyway. Perhaps his melodic gift was a little stronger.
When did Scarlatti first encounter the pianoforte?:
On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:19:28 AM UTC+2, gggg gggg wrote:enslaved or just shot.
When did Scarlatti first encounter the pianoforte?:
It's always a sign that a topic is reaching its end when gggg starts posting multiple vaguely related links.
However, I said before that the whole question of when and if 'Scarlatti encountered a pianoforte' reminds me of rather colonial narratives where the entire life purpose of native people was to finally, fatally, run into white civilized people and get
Scarlatti wasn't an early eighteenth century composer and virtuoso waiting to become a Beethoven precursor. He was an early eighteenth century composer, and naturally, his ties were with the present and the past. Not the future.
On Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 12:05:21 AM UTC+2, Notsure01 wrote:of Scarlatti and it drove me crazy.
My point is that there are some prolific composers
(Boccherini, Milhaud) that are known for a few works - but the rest of their music is neglected. For Vivaldi, there are huge quantities of concertos, and while there is that famous piece, other sets of concertos are prominent also (I enjoy L'Estro Armonico). Compare the number of recordings of Vivaldi to those of Telemann...
While I agree with Herman's point, the fact that there are 555 Scarlatti sonatas (each a gem) hasn't affected his popularity.
Maybe Vivaldi is simply a better composer than Telemann?
(We could get into a discussion now of why certain favorite works are so seldom performed - a perennial subject for sure - but that is worthy of
a separate thread).
(And I like Telemann's A Minor suite for recorder better than the Bach suites -- and enjoy the Overture Burlesque de Quichotte.
This is lifted from the WAYTL topic.
I am not aware of any 'popularity' of Scarlatti. Some pro performers play a couple Scarlatti pieces as warm-ups or encores, and of course their are a lot of amateur pianists who play Scarlatti sonatas at home. I once sat through a recital of 45 minutes
Telemann is an excellent composer for amateur recorder or violin. Of course professional performers would make a much better job of it, however nothing could move me to buy a Telemann CD. Telemann did not compose for CD players but for people who couldplay or perform his music, and that's what they're doing right now. I call that successful.
I wouldn't really know how to measure whether Vivaldi is better than Telemann, and it's a fairly meaningless exercise anyway. Perhaps his melodic gift was a little stronger.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2022 at 6:11:09 PM UTC-7, Notsure01 wrote:
On 10/26/22 8:04 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
I also agree with Herman that we need less nastiness here
You appear to have ignored, or not seen many of Herman's posts which are rife with nastiness.
By starting more conversations and trying to be respectful I hope we can >> help RMCR to thrive and grow.
Go for it. But don't hold your breath.
The way to get conversations back on topicOne thing we should agree on is that - just like classical recordings - *we* could all be better!
is to post on-topic.
And I have seen the bad blood here over the years, and certainly realize that my habit of taking everyone's side at some point will result in my having no friends,,,
But that reminds me of a joke (everything does):
A couple walk into a priest's office.
Wife. We have not been getting along. We need your help in deciding
who is at fault! My husband is lazy and doesn't help around the house.
He neglects me and is always listening to that annoying music. He spends our money on endless versions of Bruckner 8th so we can't afford to eat out...And his feet smell! It's definitely mainly his fault why we have a bad relationship.
Priest. You're right.
Husband. Now wait a minute! My wife fritters away money on clothes, cosmetics, and geegaws. She is always gossiping with her friends or
posting on social media. Last night I was almost finished listening to Parsifal and she interrupted me to take out the trash just when I was
going to find out how it ends! She is obviously at fault!!
Priest. You're right.
Wife and Husband together. We can't both be right!!
Priest. You're right.
(A Tummler is someone that is employed by a resort to get folks to socialize. He tells bad jokes and starts conversations to help lighten
the mood. I hope people don't mind my Tummling - let me know if you do).
I'll now take Frank's advice and get back to pontificating about music.
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go".You gotta have pretty thick skin to stick around THIS place.
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