• Mozart's Symphony No. 41

    From TR@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 12 11:34:52 2022
    A somewhat unusual performance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfOQ1C0EHfY

    Never heard of that orchestra.

    Chris

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  • From MELMOTH@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 12 14:39:36 2022
    Après mûre réflexion, TR a écrit :
    A somewhat unusual performance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfOQ1C0EHfY

    Never heard of that orchestra.

    Amazing!...Without a leader or score!...Bravo!...

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  • From Herman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 12 06:23:52 2022
    Of course there is a leader, that's the violinist with the frizzy auburn hair. She's Lonneke van Straalen and she started this (basically pick-up) orchestra. She's also a violinist in the Netherlands Chamber Orchestra. Many of the members of the Mozart
    thing are recruited from either this orchestra or the Netherlands Philharmonic. One should keep in mind graduates from today's music schools are phenomenally trained, technically advanced musicians who don't really need brutish dictator/conductors like Szell or any other conductor of the of that bygone era anymore. They can play
    Mozart or Haydn symphonies all by themselves.

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  • From raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 12 14:10:21 2022
    On Wednesday, 12 October 2022 at 22:34:56 UTC+11, TR wrote:
    A somewhat unusual performance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfOQ1C0EHfY

    Never heard of that orchestra.

    Chris

    A very nice performance. I wonder if the reverberant sound adds to the sharp tuttis, as a performance quality.

    Ray Hall, Taree

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  • From Andrew Clarke@21:1/5 to Herman on Wed Oct 12 13:21:08 2022
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 12:23:55 AM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
    Of course there is a leader, that's the violinist with the frizzy auburn hair. She's Lonneke van Straalen and she started this (basically pick-up) orchestra. She's also a violinist in the Netherlands Chamber Orchestra. Many of the members of the Mozart
    thing are recruited from either this orchestra or the Netherlands Philharmonic.
    One should keep in mind graduates from today's music schools are phenomenally trained, technically advanced musicians who don't really need brutish dictator/conductors like Szell or any other conductor of the of that bygone era anymore. They can play
    Mozart or Haydn symphonies all by themselves.

    I loved this performance, and perhaps we need to be careful about the dismissive use of the expression 'pick-up band' as others do. The days of people dedicating their lives to sawing or honking away in a big orchestra under a big boss conductor are well
    and truly on the way out, probably. And that's how music grows.

    Andrew Clarke
    Canberra

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  • From Herman@21:1/5 to andrewc...@gmail.com on Wed Oct 12 19:55:51 2022
    On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 10:21:11 PM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
    The days of people dedicating their lives to sawing or honking away in a big orchestra under a big boss conductor are well and truly on the way out, probably. And that's how music grows.

    You don't understand. Most of the people in this video are in a "big orchestra" making a living. This conductorless band is just an additional activity. There are virtually no professional musicians who just do one thing. Lonneke, for instance, also
    teaches violin, privately - just like most orchestral musicians do. The talk about this being the way orchestras will look like in the future, standing on their feet, in day clothes, being so energetic, is just silly marketing. Orchestras sitting down
    are just as energetic, they just don't waste their energy in swaying to and fro. The only thing one can say for sure is at some point most orchestras will be majority female.

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  • From Andrew Clarke@21:1/5 to Herman on Wed Oct 12 20:43:08 2022
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 1:55:53 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 10:21:11 PM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
    The days of people dedicating their lives to sawing or honking away in a big orchestra under a big boss conductor are well and truly on the way out, probably. And that's how music grows.

    You don't understand. Most of the people in this video are in a "big orchestra" making a living. This conductorless band is just an additional activity. There are virtually no professional musicians who just do one thing. Lonneke, for instance, also
    teaches violin, privately - just like most orchestral musicians do. The talk about this being the way orchestras will look like in the future, standing on their feet, in day clothes, being so energetic, is just silly marketing. Orchestras sitting down
    are just as energetic, they just don't waste their energy in swaying to and fro. The only thing one can say for sure is at some point most orchestras will be majority female.

    Herman, I understand perfectly well. Nobody can survive on what a musician gets paid in a London orchestra, so they all teach or work in other ensembles. These being the case, it really isn't fair for critics to complain about 'pick-up bands' - I have
    one particular critic in mind - as it's questionable whether the work they do for (say) Jurowsky at the LPO is qualitatively better than the work they do for (say) John Wilson at the Sinfonia of London.

    I didn't see an undue amount of swaying in this performance - perhaps it's regarded as excessive in The Netherlands, especially the more Calvinist bits. I have seen Tafelmusik perform in Canberra, also standing and also playing from memory and they didn'
    t sway all that much either. For some real jutterbug, try Les Ombres:

    <https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhz74z>

    Andrew Clarke
    Canberra

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  • From Herman@21:1/5 to andrewc...@gmail.com on Wed Oct 12 23:47:48 2022
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 5:43:10 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:



    I didn't see an undue amount of swaying in this performance - perhaps it's regarded as excessive in The Netherlands, especially the more Calvinist bits.

    Nah, it's just me. I really don't like stand-up classic, with its concomitant swaying about and buckling at the knees. I think it's distracting and I also can't help wondering what these performers are going to do when they hit age 50, or whenever it is
    that one's knees say "Hey, fella, take it easy, please!"

    This is only halfway through the average classical performer's life / career... Are they all going to switch to cello or harp?

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  • From Herman@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 13 00:08:51 2022
    Like I said, the only sure thing I can see for the near future is that orchestras will be increasingly composed of women performers, with the lower brass as a lone male holout.

    The other thing one can see happening is the incredible repertoire shrink. Pyranello plays Mozart 41, Beethoven 5 and Dvorak's New World.

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  • From Herman@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 13 00:44:02 2022
    the usual pattern: people are having a discussion about music, and there is Mr Stupid again, trying to derail things.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Herman on Thu Oct 13 00:30:01 2022
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 12:09:04 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:

    Like I said, the only sure thing I can see
    for the near future is that orchestras will be
    increasingly composed of women performers,

    Anything wrong with that ?!?

    dk

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  • From Andrew Clarke@21:1/5 to Herman on Thu Oct 13 04:51:32 2022
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 5:47:50 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 5:43:10 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:



    I didn't see an undue amount of swaying in this performance - perhaps it's regarded as excessive in The Netherlands, especially the more Calvinist bits.
    Nah, it's just me. I really don't like stand-up classic, with its concomitant swaying about and buckling at the knees. I think it's distracting and I also can't help wondering what these performers are going to do when they hit age 50, or whenever it
    is that one's knees say "Hey, fella, take it easy, please!"

    This is only halfway through the average classical performer's life / career... Are they all going to switch to cello or harp?

    I'm sure some members of Tafelmusik are of riper years and they didn't seem too bothered by standing, or even moving to different places on the stage between pieces.

    Andrew Clarke
    Canberra

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  • From Herman@21:1/5 to andrewc...@gmail.com on Thu Oct 13 08:33:07 2022
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 1:51:35 PM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 5:47:50 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 5:43:10 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:


    I'm sure some members of Tafelmusik are of riper years and they didn't seem too bothered by standing, or even moving to different places on the stage between pieces.

    Okay, I guess so. One of the advantages of learning the violin is you do it standing on your feet. That's a good way to stay in shape.
    The happy (?) few who become soloists perform and rehearse on their feet. But if I were an orchestra violinist I couldn't imagine doing hours of rehearsals and the concert standing. But I guess not everyone thinks this way.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Herman on Thu Oct 13 08:40:25 2022
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 8:33:10 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 1:51:35 PM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 5:47:50 PM UTC+11, Herman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 5:43:10 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:


    I'm sure some members of Tafelmusik are of riper years and
    they didn't seem too bothered by standing, or even moving to
    different places on the stage between pieces.

    Okay, I guess so. One of the advantages of learning the violin is
    you do it standing on your feet. That's a good way to stay in shape.

    One could even ski or run a marathon while playing. Not sure about
    swimming though.

    The happy (?) few who become soloists perform and rehearse on
    their feet. But if I were an orchestra violinist I couldn't imagine doing hours of rehearsals and the concert standing. But I guess not everyone
    thinks this way.

    One could switch to playing cello to be forever seated. I hope you
    have developed enough power in your arms to muscle a cello bow.

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Herman on Thu Oct 13 08:19:55 2022
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 12:44:04 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 12:09:04 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:

    Like I said, the only sure thing I can see
    for the near future is that orchestras will be
    increasingly composed of women performers,

    Anything wrong with that ?!?

    the usual pattern: people are having a
    discussion about music, and there is Mr
    Stupid again, trying to derail things.

    The usual pattern appears to be that
    Mr. Racist makes a blatant racist and/
    or sexist comment that has nothing to
    do with music, then calls everyone else
    names. The ratio of women to men in
    orchestras has nothing (if anything)
    to do with music. Then he accuses
    others of being racist or sexist.

    dk

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  • From Bob Harper@21:1/5 to Herman on Thu Oct 13 10:29:19 2022
    On 10/12/22 11:47 PM, Herman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 5:43:10 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:



    I didn't see an undue amount of swaying in this performance - perhaps it's regarded as excessive in The Netherlands, especially the more Calvinist bits.

    Nah, it's just me. I really don't like stand-up classic, with its concomitant swaying about and buckling at the knees. I think it's distracting and I also can't help wondering what these performers are going to do when they hit age 50, or whenever it
    is that one's knees say "Hey, fella, take it easy, please!"

    Easy. They will sit down. Take it from someone whose knees said that
    quite a while back :-)

    Bob Harper

    This is only halfway through the average classical performer's life / career... Are they all going to switch to cello or harp?

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to andrewc...@gmail.com on Thu Oct 13 11:41:24 2022
    On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 8:43:10 PM UTC-7, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:

    Nobody can survive on what a musician gets paid in a London orchestra,

    Or anywhere else. Read this:

    https://www.musicindustryhowto.com/how-much-do-pianists-make/

    We should pass a law to levy a "frivolous activity" tax on
    football, baseball, soccer and basketball players. 50% of
    their income should be withheld to fund classical music
    and jazz.

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Bob Harper on Thu Oct 13 11:44:37 2022
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 10:29:24 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:

    Easy. They will sit down. Take it from someone
    whose knees said that quite a while back :-)


    The most effective way to keep one's knees flexible
    in old age is to ski and skate. And genuflex regularly:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvhYqeGp_Do

    dk

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  • From Andrew Clarke@21:1/5 to Bob Harper on Thu Oct 13 16:25:40 2022
    On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 4:29:24 AM UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
    On 10/12/22 11:47 PM, Herman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 5:43:10 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:



    I didn't see an undue amount of swaying in this performance - perhaps it's regarded as excessive in The Netherlands, especially the more Calvinist bits.

    Nah, it's just me. I really don't like stand-up classic, with its concomitant swaying about and buckling at the knees. I think it's distracting and I also can't help wondering what these performers are going to do when they hit age 50, or whenever it
    is that one's knees say "Hey, fella, take it easy, please!"
    Easy. They will sit down. Take it from someone whose knees said that
    quite a while back :-)

    Bob Harper

    This is only halfway through the average classical performer's life / career... Are they all going to switch to cello or harp?

    Ensembles like I Fagiolini, Tafelmusik and Pynarello will, as they age, perform from wheelchairs propelled about the stage by young ladies dressed as Taylor Swift. That should bring in the youth audience.

    Pynarello, named after their Dutch sponsors who manufacture various household detergents, seem to perform in various genres. They recently celebrated their fifth birthday, hence the Beethoven's Fifth.

    Andrew Clarke
    Canberra

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