• Re: Peter Hill - Pianist

    From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Mon Oct 3 08:35:35 2022
    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 4:31:44 PM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
    I'm really impressed by the poetry that this guy makes, here in WTC 2 especially

    https://open.spotify.com/album/71sRsV19MqrSFPJUJR4Yfe

    in fact at the moment it's by far my favourite modern piano WTC 2.

    But not just there, also in the Diabelli Variations

    https://open.spotify.com/album/0EnR2ZXkUCA1DyNwN9068y

    I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.

    I can do better than "poetic" Well balanced, the balance between expressive and intellectual. That's what makes him a great pianist!

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 3 08:31:41 2022
    I'm really impressed by the poetry that this guy makes, here in WTC 2 especially

    https://open.spotify.com/album/71sRsV19MqrSFPJUJR4Yfe

    in fact at the moment it's by far my favourite modern piano WTC 2.

    But not just there, also in the Diabelli Variations

    https://open.spotify.com/album/0EnR2ZXkUCA1DyNwN9068y

    I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Mon Oct 3 18:36:19 2022
    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 8:35:38 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    That's what makes him a great pianist!

    Your notions of "greatness" and "pianism"
    are the pettiest petit bourgeois I've ever
    encountered! How did you manage to
    collect so much dust between your
    ears? You really need better dust
    filters in your ears!

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Mon Oct 3 18:17:46 2022
    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 8:35:38 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    Well balanced, the balance between expressive and
    intellectual. That's what makes him a great pianist!

    Nope. "Balance" is in the ears of the listener. Every
    person's ears are wired differently from others'.

    "Intellectual" is between the ears of the listener.
    That space may be filled differently in different
    skulls. In some cases it may even be left empty.

    "Intellectual" belongs to literature and philosophy,
    not to PERFORMING ARTS! This forum is about
    PERFORMING ARTS, not about literature or
    philosophy! Throw out the "intellectual" !!!

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Todd M. McComb on Mon Oct 3 19:00:09 2022
    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
    In article <53b1261c-366c-4609...@googlegroups.com>,
    Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
    I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
    his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.
    He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
    works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time.
    Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
    from you....

    Yes indeed, and the fact he is not better remembered
    should be a pretty clear hint as to why he is not better
    remembered -- pardon the circular logic which I think
    is quite appropriate when talking about birds! ;-)

    This is the one and only Catalogue d'Oiseaux that is
    approved by the Audubon Society:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kbfAKpFFZwq3MVtA5Iaby0sYdwIwoOLRM

    https://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-doiseaux-Fauvette-jardins-2003-07-01/dp/B00Y3YZK9U

    dk

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  • From Todd M. McComb@21:1/5 to howie.stone01@gmail.com on Tue Oct 4 01:40:49 2022
    In article <53b1261c-366c-4609-8f2d-9f17f8bf4a27n@googlegroups.com>,
    Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com> wrote:
    I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
    his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.

    He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
    works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time.
    Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
    from you....

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to Peter on Mon Oct 3 21:05:27 2022
    On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 4:57:05 AM UTC+1, Peter wrote:
    My recollection is that he edited the volume, "A Messiaen Companion" or some title like that. Never got around to reading it, although I probably should, since I love most of OM's work.

    I have to admit I prefer Aimard to Hill in the Catalog; it seems more musical. It would be good to do a head-to-head, however, because one could be swayed simply by recording quality in repertoire like this.
    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
    In article <53b1261c-366c-4609...@googlegroups.com>,
    Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
    I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
    his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.
    He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
    works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time. Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
    from you....

    Maybe one day I’ll come to appreciate the oiseaux, but so far it has eluded me - and not for want of trying.

    There’s a lot of Bach by Hill which I haven’t heard, the French suites and Goldberg Variations. What surprised me so much was how agreeable his Diabelli Variations are. I know the music on record pretty well, I mean, I’ve spent time listening to
    what people have made of it. Hill brings something interesting to the party for me.

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  • From Herman@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Mon Oct 3 20:38:55 2022
    On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 3:17:48 AM UTC+2, dan....@gmail.com wrote:


    "Intellectual" belongs to literature and philosophy,
    not to PERFORMING ARTS! This forum is about
    PERFORMING ARTS, not about literature or
    philosophy! Throw out the "intellectual" !!!

    dk

    Wrong.
    This forum is about Dan Koren and the empty space between his ears.
    All other content is to be shot down.

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  • From Peter@21:1/5 to Todd M. McComb on Mon Oct 3 20:57:03 2022
    My recollection is that he edited the volume, "A Messiaen Companion" or some title like that. Never got around to reading it, although I probably should, since I love most of OM's work.

    I have to admit I prefer Aimard to Hill in the Catalog; it seems more musical. It would be good to do a head-to-head, however, because one could be swayed simply by recording quality in repertoire like this.

    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
    In article <53b1261c-366c-4609...@googlegroups.com>,
    Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
    I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
    his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.
    He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
    works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time.
    Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
    from you....

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  • From raymond.hallbear1@gmail.com@21:1/5 to dan....gmail.com on Mon Oct 3 21:34:10 2022
    On Tuesday, 4 October 2022 at 13:00:12 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
    In article <53b1261c-366c-4609...googlegroups.com>,
    Mandryka <howie....gmail.com> wrote:
    I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
    his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.
    He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
    works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time.
    Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
    from you....
    Yes indeed, and the fact he is not better remembered
    should be a pretty clear hint as to why he is not better
    remembered -- pardon the circular logic which I think
    is quite appropriate when talking about birds! ;-)

    This is the one and only Catalogue d'Oiseaux that is
    approved by the Audubon Society:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kbfAKpFFZwq3MVtA5Iaby0sYdwIwoOLRM

    https://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-doiseaux-Fauvette-jardins-2003-07-01/dp/B00Y3YZK9U

    dk

    Have you heard Aimard in these pieces?

    Ray Hall, Taree

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Mon Oct 3 21:32:29 2022
    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:05:30 PM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    What surprised me so much was how agreeable his Diabelli
    Variations are. I know the music on record pretty well, I mean,
    I’ve spent time listening to what people have made of it. Hill
    brings something interesting to the party for me.

    But it is no party at all. The Diabellicals are disagreeable by
    design. They should smack on in the face until one's jaws
    disconnect from one's skull. If you don't experience it then
    it is not a good performance. Listen to this:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXyWTaIzLvQ_DEwx6md6sNfDAHDq-BMnk

    Then pick up your jaw, clean it, sterilize it, and pack it
    carefully. Then send it to the committee as proof you
    actually listened to it.

    dk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to raymond....@gmail.com on Mon Oct 3 22:03:00 2022
    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:34:12 PM UTC-7, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, 4 October 2022 at 13:00:12 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
    In article <53b1261c-366c-4609...googlegroups.com>,
    Mandryka <howie....gmail.com> wrote:
    I'm sure there are other great things -- I have vague memories of
    his Schoenberg being outstanding, Messiaen too.
    He made first recordings of Catalog d'oiseaux & some other late
    works by Messiaen, so I certainly appreciated them/him at the time. Haven't heard much since, although this isn't the first rave here
    from you....
    Yes indeed, and the fact he is not better remembered
    should be a pretty clear hint as to why he is not better
    remembered -- pardon the circular logic which I think
    is quite appropriate when talking about birds! ;-)

    This is the one and only Catalogue d'Oiseaux that is
    approved by the Audubon Society:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kbfAKpFFZwq3MVtA5Iaby0sYdwIwoOLRM
    https://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-doiseaux-Fauvette-jardins-2003-07-01/dp/B00Y3YZK9U

    Have you heard Aimard in these pieces?

    Of course I have. I did not like him. I also
    did not like him in anything else I heard
    him play. Too fussy, too intellectual, and
    too sophisticated. For me, Ugorsky nails
    this works, as he does almost everything
    else I heard him play.

    Herman, please take notice I recommend
    someone who isn't Asian and who does
    not even have enough hair to notice.

    dk

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  • From Todd M. McComb@21:1/5 to dormanp@gmail.com on Tue Oct 4 04:53:10 2022
    In article <4e90167c-fa91-4daf-87a5-4e5e17eb8aaan@googlegroups.com>,
    Peter <dormanp@gmail.com> wrote:
    I have to admit I prefer Aimard to Hill in the Catalog; it seems
    more musical. It would be good to do a head-to-head, however,
    because one could be swayed simply by recording quality in repertoire
    like this.

    Oh, I think the Aimard set is a great performance (& a great
    recording). Hill was the first to do it, decades ago... head-to-head
    really isn't fair.

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 4 01:41:29 2022
    I just noticed that Hill has another Beethoven recording, four handers with Ben Frith. You’d have to like listening to Beethoven’s piano music to like this I think. There’s here’s one thing there which caught my attention - op 134 (Grosse Fugue
    transcription) which sounds really colourful actually on first listen - I don’t think there’s a better one on record.

    Re the oiseaux, I’m surprised that Hill recorded it before Loriod. I think there are two Loriod recordings - if I’m right she must have liked it.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Mandryka on Tue Oct 4 03:07:34 2022
    On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 1:41:32 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    I think there are two Loriod recordings -
    if I’m right she must have liked it.

    She didn't have a choice. She was
    Messiaen's wife. Maybe the first
    recording wasn't good enough
    and she was spanked.

    dk

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  • From Bob Harper@21:1/5 to Herman on Tue Oct 4 10:57:24 2022
    On 10/3/22 8:38 PM, Herman wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 3:17:48 AM UTC+2, dan....@gmail.com wrote:


    "Intellectual" belongs to literature and philosophy,
    not to PERFORMING ARTS! This forum is about
    PERFORMING ARTS, not about literature or
    philosophy! Throw out the "intellectual" !!!

    dk

    Wrong.
    This forum is about Dan Koren and the empty space between his ears.
    All other content is to be shot down.

    Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to that conclusion. It would
    be better if he could make his frequently perceptive comments without
    having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.

    Bob Harper

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  • From Mandryka@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 4 14:36:25 2022
    Well I listened to a couple of a Hill’s French Suites today. Lovely restrained delicate performances, room sized - nothing grandiose. Much more expressive than most modern piano players with no intrusive inorganic rubato.

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Bob Harper on Wed Oct 5 03:59:04 2022
    On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:

    Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to
    that conclusion. It would be better if he could
    make his frequently perceptive comments without
    having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.

    I am very much surprised, deeply touched and very
    flattered by someone prepending "Mr." to my name.
    This does not happen often, and whenever it does
    it usually happens in a government office. I do not
    like titles of any kind, they are oh so bourgeois.

    Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
    appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
    insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
    it only happens once in a lifetime!

    dk

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  • From JohnGavin@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Wed Oct 5 05:06:44 2022
    On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 6:59:07 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:

    Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to
    that conclusion. It would be better if he could
    make his frequently perceptive comments without
    having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.
    I am very much surprised, deeply touched and very
    flattered by someone prepending "Mr." to my name.
    This does not happen often, and whenever it does
    it usually happens in a government office. I do not
    like titles of any kind, they are oh so bourgeois.

    Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
    appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
    insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
    it only happens once in a lifetime!

    dk

    You are forgiven but you will eventually have to contend with the ghosts of the many non-Asian and non-Russian pianists who you have insulted over the years!

    By the way, Happy Durga Puja to our Hindu contributors.

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to dan....@gmail.com on Wed Oct 5 04:36:31 2022
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2022 um 12:59:07 UTC+2:
    On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:

    Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to
    that conclusion. It would be better if he could
    make his frequently perceptive comments without
    having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.
    I am very much surprised, deeply touched and very
    flattered by someone prepending "Mr." to my name.
    This does not happen often, and whenever it does
    it usually happens in a government office. I do not
    like titles of any kind, they are oh so bourgeois.


    You know, every now and then I visit this ng and I just want to say, I felt deeply touched seeing you mentioning my name occasionally - it seems you have not forgotten about me ;D

    Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
    appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
    insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
    it only happens once in a lifetime!

    dk

    I have not felt insulted by your opinions, rather frustrated by your idiocy.

    Anyway: G'mar chatima tovah, my dear friend ;D

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  • From Marc S@21:1/5 to Marc S on Wed Oct 5 04:41:20 2022
    Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2022 um 13:36:34 UTC+2:
    dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2022 um 12:59:07 UTC+2:
    On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:

    Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to
    that conclusion. It would be better if he could
    make his frequently perceptive comments without
    having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.
    I am very much surprised, deeply touched and very
    flattered by someone prepending "Mr." to my name.
    This does not happen often, and whenever it does
    it usually happens in a government office. I do not
    like titles of any kind, they are oh so bourgeois.

    You know, every now and then I visit this ng and I just want to say, I felt deeply touched seeing you mentioning my name occasionally - it seems you have not forgotten about me ;D
    Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
    appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
    insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
    it only happens once in a lifetime!

    dk
    I have not felt insulted by your opinions, rather frustrated by your idiocy.

    Anyway: G'mar chatima tovah, my dear friend ;D

    mr clawren ;D

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to JohnGavin on Wed Oct 5 07:35:11 2022
    On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 5:06:48 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 6:59:07 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 10:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:

    Mr. Koren's comments could indeed lead one to
    that conclusion. It would be better if he could
    make his frequently perceptive comments without
    having to insult others. Too much to ask, I suppose.
    I am very much surprised, deeply touched and very
    flattered by someone prepending "Mr." to my name.
    This does not happen often, and whenever it does
    it usually happens in a government office. I do not
    like titles of any kind, they are oh so bourgeois.

    Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
    appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
    insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
    it only happens once in a lifetime!

    You are forgiven but you will eventually have to
    contend with the ghosts of the many non-Asian
    and non-Russian pianists who you have insulted
    over the years!

    My apologies are only to this ng's members, not to
    artists on stage or on media, who are by definition
    (or were) open to criticism by performing for the
    public.

    I only criticized non-pianist pianists, whether ghosts
    or otherwise. Arrau does not get a free pass, even on
    Yom Kippur! ;-)

    dk

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  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 5 07:47:53 2022
    Op woensdag 5 oktober 2022 om 16:35:15 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

    Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
    appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
    insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
    it only happens once in a lifetime!

    If only God were as forgiving as we are ...

    Henk

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  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to hvt...@xs4all.nl on Wed Oct 5 08:34:46 2022
    On Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 7:47:56 AM UTC-7, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
    Op woensdag 5 oktober 2022 om 16:35:15 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
    Since today is Yom Kippur, I offer my sincerest
    appologies to anyone in this ng who ever felt
    insulted by my opinions. Make a note of it, as
    it only happens once in a lifetime!

    If only God were as forgiving as we are ...

    God will never forgive Arrau, Kempff and
    Backhaus.

    dk

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  • From Lewis Perin@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Oct 6 14:28:40 2022
    Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com> writes:

    On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 9:05:30 PM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

    What surprised me so much was how agreeable his Diabelli
    Variations are. I know the music on record pretty well, I mean,
    I’ve spent time listening to what people have made of it. Hill
    brings something interesting to the party for me.

    But it is no party at all. The Diabellicals are disagreeable by
    design. They should smack on in the face until one's jaws
    disconnect from one's skull. If you don't experience it then
    it is not a good performance. Listen to this:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nXyWTaIzLvQ_DEwx6md6sNfDAHDq-BMnk

    Then pick up your jaw, clean it, sterilize it, and pack it
    carefully. Then send it to the committee as proof you
    actually listened to it.

    Indeed. Ugorski’s performance is the one heard in our house.

    /Lew
    ---
    Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
    https://babelcarp.org

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