On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:30:42 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 11:57:34 PM UTC+1, MickeyBoy wrote:

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 2:39:58 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

Unbelievably good very early Kempff Liszt here

https://open.spotify.com/album/0OS6jAACERS4SWPIpyDLy5

The same transcription is on Steinway Legends from 1975. Kempff's performance of most of Italie on Pentatone 4-channel is beyond delicious. Every time I listen it sticks in my mind for days.

I just don’t enjoy the later performances, despite the good sound. I can’t say what it is and I could well be deceiving myself, but for me by the 1970s the magic has gone.

Having just been diagnosed with an arthritic thumb, I wonder if what you hear could be described as an arthritic quality. I hear a wonderfully musical combination of micro level phrasing and touch, at a cost of less big-picture sweep and declamation. To
achieve an ideal balance of the low and the high levels in a performance is impossible, but a very deft concentration of the low level cognizant of one's digital limitations can fit together to form a voice of the piece that speaks well.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sep 28, 2022, Mandryka wrote
(in article<cd390c70-2bfc-4825-ad41-ca913ac631f8n@googlegroups.com>):

Unbelievably good very early Kempff Liszt here

https://open.spotify.com/album/0OS6jAACERS4SWPIpyDLy5

or:

https://smile.amazon.com/Wilhelm-Kempff-Rare-Recordings/dp/B00004WJM4/

Spotify calls the Mozart 21st concerto "Elvira Madigan",

Kempff and the original Music And Arts CDs did not.

Both spotify and amazon get bad reviews for their weakness

in searching music, from the recent American Record Guide issue,

I have to agree on amazon as I know it by using it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sep 28, 2022, Herman wrote
(in article<e8b611e2-cec8-4282-acd9-f7f24feee3b2n@googlegroups.com>):

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 3:24:43 AM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:

More psychology: I think you are a fruit cake.

You would have to either remigrate to the Fifties for this to land succesfully, or go to a place (Russia or Hungary?) where antisemitism blossoms along with homophobia.

Putin outlawed antisemitism, do you agree with this or
disagree?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:

On 9/29/2022 2:36 PM, Pluted Pup wrote:

On Sep 28, 2022, Herman wrote
(in article<e8b611e2-cec8-4282...@googlegroups.com>):

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 3:24:43 AM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote: >>>

More psychology: I think you are a fruit cake.

You would have to either remigrate to the Fifties for
this to land succesfully, or go to a place (Russia or
Hungary?) where antisemitism blossoms along with
homophobia.

Putin outlawed antisemitism, do you agree with this
or disagree?

I don't know much about current antisemitism in Hungary,
but government to government, Hungary is one of Israel's
closest allies Europe.

Evidence?

That's something. According to Wikipedia the Nazis murdered
about 544,000 Hungarian Jews, with the cooperation of the
Hungarian government. There are somewhere around 50,000-
100,000 Jews living in Hungary today, as far as I can tell.

Anti-semitism or lack thereof is far more than a matter
between governments. Anti-Semitism is alive and thriving
in Hungary, government or not. It is deeply embedded in
the local culture, just as it is in Russian and other countries
in the vicinity. To put it bluntly, these are cultures that have
near zero tolerance for social, ethnic or religious diversity.

There are indeed Jews who live there, accepting calculated
risks because of various reasons -- mixed marriages or other
family ties, unmovable businesses or assets, or even blind
loyalty to the regimes or to its principles (I had someone like
this in my 2nd degree family).

Also see https://jewishjournal.com/culture/arts/178588/

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:

On 9/30/2022 12:07 AM, Dan Koren wrote:

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 12:09:40 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:

government or not. It is deeply embedded in
the local culture, just as it is in Russian and other countries
in the vicinity. To put it bluntly, these are cultures that have
near zero tolerance for social, ethnic or religious diversity.

I think "near zero" is a bit of an exaggeration, but OK.

I lived in those countries. You have not. Obviously if
one equates near zero to high risk of getting killed
or arrested or sent to the camps as soon as one
steps outside, this is not the case.

"Near zero" means that there is an extremely strong
current of opinion (stated or not) and shared belief
systems that tend to systematically push Jews out
of higher level positions in all walks of life and work.

One needs to look no farther than how Russia has
treated Jewish musicians. A very tiny fraction were
allowed to tour in the West relative to their standing
and proportions in the overall music scene.

For pianists, it was mainly Gilels and Berman. Other
top tier Jewisg pianists almost never toured outside
the Eastern bloc -- e.g. Zak, Flier, Ginzburg, Oborin,
Grinberg, Yudina, Margulis, Ugorsky, Mogilevsky,
Krainev, Feltsman, Faerman, Zilberstein, and so on.

I excluded Ashkenazy from this list because he was
officially allowed to emigrate (1963?) after marrying
his Icelandic sweetheart. I heard rumors this was
part of a deal to convince him to compete in the
1962 Tchaikovsky competition to prevent another
embarrassment by a Western pianist -- and then
John Ogdon happened!

For violinists, it was mainly Oistrakh and Kogan.

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 10:58:52 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:

Do you think I'm arguing with you?

How dare you not argue with me? ;-)

You are not arguing, however you
spend more time and more words
picking nits instead of proclaiming
The Truth! ;-)

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

hvt...@xs4all.nl schrieb am Dienstag, 27. September 2022 um 14:35:28 UTC+2:

Op dinsdag 27 september 2022 om 11:08:41 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 10:04:38 AM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:

Op maandag 26 september 2022 om 16:49:18 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 3:44:31 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:

nce by Harry Datyner, one of Edwin Fischer's

pupils.

Here is Kempff's metronome driven Chopin Barcarolle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLjXQslVQc

and here is one performed by a real artist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVHiixjai9o

Kempff's Chopin is ridiculous, not just the Barcarolle. My reference version for the Barcarolle is Lipatti.

Henk

See what you think of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XXnJiXPlrc&ab_channel=ADGO

This is worse than I expected. Perhaps the worst Barcarolle ever. Bozhanov can be an interesting musician when he keeps his pseudo-romanticism in control. Here he is completely carried away by his daemon.

Henk

Yes I can see why you say that, but I think the fluidity of it and the delicacy of it, are beautiful.

Have you heard Pletnev’s Verbier performance this year? Unfortunately I can’t see it online and I’m reluctant to upload it because my copy was a gift. But I think it may well be your sort of thing.

Let’s be absolutely clear about something, the worst Barcarolle ever, as everyone agrees, is Michel Block’s.

Thanks. I'll try to find Pletnev at Verbier. BTW, I must have been lucky: Block's Barcarolle is unknown to me.

Henk

Henk, if you have access to medici.tv, you can also watch it in HD. Watching Pletnev playing piano is for me like watching Kleiber conducting - part of the enjoyment of the music.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Henk, if you have access to medici.tv, you can also watch it in HD. Watching Pletnev playing piano is for me like watching Kleiber conducting - part of the enjoyment of the music.

Thanks! A great performance by Pletnev. His version of Op 61 is also great.

Henk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 7:38:46 PM UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:

Henk, if you have access to medici.tv, you can also watch it in HD. Watching Pletnev playing piano is for me like watching Kleiber conducting - part of the enjoyment of the music.

Thanks! A great performance by Pletnev. His version of Op 61 is also great.

Henk

He makes a lovely sound come out of the Kawai.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)