• Re: Tchaikovsky "Manfred" Finale - Soviet version

    From Christopher Howell@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 5 02:50:10 2023
    Add Caetani (Markevitch's son, shame on him!) to those who play the "Soviet" ending (RAI Nazionale 4.11.2011). I didn't check if he also made cuts, but with a timing of 14:59, and his tempi are not slow, I would assume not.
    Add also Sokhiev (Berlin PO 2014) as reported here: https://slippedisc.com/2014/06/wrong-tchaikovsky-ending-at-the-berlin-philharmonic/

    Since not all Soviet conductors played it this way (Rozhdestvensky didn't, neither did Fedoseyev), and since Steinberg who was certainly not a Soviet conductor seems the earliest recorded case, perhaps we should be looking for a different name - "loud
    ending", "vulgar ending", or simply "wrong ending".

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  • From Christopher Howell@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 5 02:58:45 2023
    Add also van Zweden (Dallas 2011) https://myscena.org/paul-robinson/dso-and-van-zweden-a-persuasive-manfred-in-dallas-2/. And this critic thinks it a great improvement

    The way things are going, it will be difficult to hear a performance with Tchaikovsky's own ending at all

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  • From Kerrison@21:1/5 to Christopher Howell on Thu Jan 5 09:36:57 2023
    On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC, Christopher Howell wrote:
    Add also van Zweden (Dallas 2011) https://myscena.org/paul-robinson/dso-and-van-zweden-a-persuasive-manfred-in-dallas-2/. And this critic thinks it a great improvement

    The way things are going, it will be difficult to hear a performance with Tchaikovsky's own ending at all

    And we mustn't forget that Arturo "Do as written" Toscanini lopped over 100 bars - about 5 minutes of music - out of the finale too, though he stuck with the usual published closing pages. In his "Toscanini and the Art of Conducting" Robert C. Marsh
    opined that "by editing and selective rescoring, Toscanini made this a better work than Tchaikovsky left it." Well, that's alright then. However, if Stokowski had done exactly the same thing, even though he never conducted it in his entire life, you can
    bet that R. C. Marsh would have given him hell!

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  • From Bob Harper@21:1/5 to Kerrison on Thu Jan 5 16:35:04 2023
    On 1/5/23 9:36 AM, Kerrison wrote:
    On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC, Christopher Howell wrote:
    Add also van Zweden (Dallas 2011) https://myscena.org/paul-robinson/dso-and-van-zweden-a-persuasive-manfred-in-dallas-2/. And this critic thinks it a great improvement

    The way things are going, it will be difficult to hear a performance with Tchaikovsky's own ending at all

    And we mustn't forget that Arturo "Do as written" Toscanini lopped over 100 bars - about 5 minutes of music - out of the finale too, though he stuck with the usual published closing pages. In his "Toscanini and the Art of Conducting" Robert C. Marsh
    opined that "by editing and selective rescoring, Toscanini made this a better work than Tchaikovsky left it." Well, that's alright then. However, if Stokowski had done exactly the same thing, even though he never conducted it in his entire life, you can
    bet that R. C. Marsh would have given him hell!

    The Marsh book was my imprint on Toscanini, and when his recordings
    started being reissued on Victrola, I bought a lot of them. They're all
    gone now, though I do still have a few from the Naxos 1939 Beethoven
    Cycle and the EMI Icon box with the BBC, and a few Pearls with the
    NYPSO. Haven't listened for a while. I do remember the BBC Beethoven 4
    as being excellent.

    Bob Harper

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