On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his >capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from?

Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed
every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion that blights our

lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label of all
Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly incalcuably varied in
timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while Zukoksky and Schroeder are
somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat grainy tone she brings to "
For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <ba899288-d923-4e3b-b894-b67e481c15dfn@googlegroups.com>,
Lawrence Kart <ljkart@aol.com> wrote:

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the >choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version --

Ogre/Ogress was a real force for a while... their discography of
Cage himself is among the largest. Their attitude production-wise
(& they only seem to have folded at the start of the pandemic...)
seemed to be to get this material out into the public (such that
e.g. many of their Cage albums involve overdubs), but Fong et al.
developed a real style.

That said, it'd be nice to have an updated version of Feldman's
_Violin and String Quartet_ -- Fong's being the only real contender
in that case.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Christina Fong plays Feldman Violin and String Quartet with a bit of vibrato. I quite enjoy what Fong does in small doses. I don’t think I’ve ever got through more than half an hour though. I can't explain why she appeals. It seems like simple,
honest, unpretentious music making to me -- speaks directly as it were. The phrase to describe how I hear her is: she plays violin like an angel. The music is extremely austere IMO, the most austere thing Feldman wrote. Fong cheers it up a bit whatever
the composer may have said about vibrato.

For John Cage is one of the few (only?) extreme long form Feldman pieces I like very much. Darragh Morgan and John Tilbury did the business for me last time I listened. There are lots of recordings of this one, and I’ve certainly not explored all of
them all!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 7:27:06 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his >capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from?

Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed
every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion that blights our

lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label of all

Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly incalcuably varied in

timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while Zukoksky and Schroeder are
somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat grainy tone she brings to "
For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

What do you think of Maurizio Barbetti's For Aaron Copland? (Haven't heard Fong's, and the set isn't easy to find in the UK.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFsgk3ilqw&list=OLAK5uy_lIEZ5M1JT4ZwL_oVyF1hKyJdQZuWeZNG8&index=3&ab_channel=MaurizioBarbetti-Topic

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <c2834372-880b-4497-ae7a-0a31e8c9a855n@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com> wrote:

Darragh Morgan and John Tilbury did the business for me last time
I listened.

Yes, that new version is well worth hearing.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:11:01 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 7:27:06 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his >capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from?

Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed
every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion that blights

our lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label of all

Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly incalcuably varied in

timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while Zukoksky and Schroeder are
somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat grainy tone she brings to "
For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

What do you think of Maurizio Barbetti's For Aaron Copland? (Haven't heard Fong's, and the set isn't easy to find in the UK.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFsgk3ilqw&list=OLAK5uy_lIEZ5M1JT4ZwL_oVyF1hKyJdQZuWeZNG8&index=3&ab_channel=MaurizioBarbetti-Topic

Don't know Barbetti's version.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:11:01 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 7:27:06 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his >capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from?

Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed
every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion that blights

our lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label of all

Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly incalcuably varied in

timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while Zukoksky and Schroeder are
somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat grainy tone she brings to "
For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

What do you think of Maurizio Barbetti's For Aaron Copland? (Haven't heard Fong's, and the set isn't easy to find in the UK.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFsgk3ilqw&list=OLAK5uy_lIEZ5M1JT4ZwL_oVyF1hKyJdQZuWeZNG8&index=3&ab_channel=MaurizioBarbetti-Topic

Found Barbetti on You Tube. Nice, but his timbre is more attenuated than Fong's and the shapes of her phrases are more songful; also her timbre is warmer and has a slight Hebraic throb at times, which IMO suits the work/evokes the dedicatee.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:55:31 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Kart wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:11:01 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 7:27:06 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his
capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from?

Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion that blights

our lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label of all

Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly incalcuably varied

in timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while Zukoksky and Schroeder are
somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat grainy tone she brings to "
For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

What do you think of Maurizio Barbetti's For Aaron Copland? (Haven't heard Fong's, and the set isn't easy to find in the UK.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFsgk3ilqw&list=OLAK5uy_lIEZ5M1JT4ZwL_oVyF1hKyJdQZuWeZNG8&index=3&ab_channel=MaurizioBarbetti-Topic

Found Barbetti on You Tube. Nice, but his timbre is more attenuated than Fong's and the shapes of her phrases are more songful; also her timbre is warmer and has a slight Hebraic throb at times, which IMO suits the work/evokes the dedicatee.

Another Feldman thought/question. This afternoon I belatedly listened to Flute and Orchestra for the first time and was at once startled and kind of tickled by the eventual sudden interjections by snarling brass. Did Feldman ever do that in a piece
before or since? Again, and maybe this is just me, in some way I found these passages almost amusing.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 9:55:31 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:11:01 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 7:27:06 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his
capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from?

Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion that blights

our lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label of all

Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly incalcuably varied

in timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while Zukoksky and Schroeder are
somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat grainy tone she brings to "
For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

What do you think of Maurizio Barbetti's For Aaron Copland? (Haven't heard Fong's, and the set isn't easy to find in the UK.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFsgk3ilqw&list=OLAK5uy_lIEZ5M1JT4ZwL_oVyF1hKyJdQZuWeZNG8&index=3&ab_channel=MaurizioBarbetti-Topic

Found Barbetti on You Tube. Nice, but his timbre is more attenuated than Fong's and the shapes of her phrases are more songful; also her timbre is warmer and has a slight Hebraic throb at times, which IMO suits the work/evokes the dedicatee.

Heard Fong now. What you say is what I hear too. Fong is imaginative with the phrasing.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oNrWmunT7Vs

A For the Viola in my Life IV I found on YouTube, quite nice. I’ve just ordered Harvey Solberger’s recording of it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 4:10:08 AM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:55:31 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Kart wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:11:01 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 7:27:06 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his
capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from?

Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion that

blights our lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label of all

Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly incalcuably varied

in timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while Zukoksky and Schroeder are
somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat grainy tone she brings to "
For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

What do you think of Maurizio Barbetti's For Aaron Copland? (Haven't heard Fong's, and the set isn't easy to find in the UK.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFsgk3ilqw&list=OLAK5uy_lIEZ5M1JT4ZwL_oVyF1hKyJdQZuWeZNG8&index=3&ab_channel=MaurizioBarbetti-Topic

Found Barbetti on You Tube. Nice, but his timbre is more attenuated than Fong's and the shapes of her phrases are more songful; also her timbre is warmer and has a slight Hebraic throb at times, which IMO suits the work/evokes the dedicatee.

Another Feldman thought/question. This afternoon I belatedly listened to Flute and Orchestra for the first time and was at once startled and kind of tickled by the eventual sudden interjections by snarling brass. Did Feldman ever do that in a piece

before or since? Again, and maybe this is just me, in some way I found these passages almost amusing.

This essay makes a similar point about Flute and Orchestra


https://www.cnvill.net/mfrizzardi.pdf

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 10:27:53 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 4:10:08 AM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:55:31 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Kart wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:11:01 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 7:27:06 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his
capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from?

Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion that

blights our lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label of

all Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly incalcuably

varied in timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while Zukoksky and
Schroeder are somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat grainy tone
she brings to "For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

What do you think of Maurizio Barbetti's For Aaron Copland? (Haven't heard Fong's, and the set isn't easy to find in the UK.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFsgk3ilqw&list=OLAK5uy_lIEZ5M1JT4ZwL_oVyF1hKyJdQZuWeZNG8&index=3&ab_channel=MaurizioBarbetti-Topic

Found Barbetti on You Tube. Nice, but his timbre is more attenuated than Fong's and the shapes of her phrases are more songful; also her timbre is warmer and has a slight Hebraic throb at times, which IMO suits the work/evokes the dedicatee.

Another Feldman thought/question. This afternoon I belatedly listened to Flute and Orchestra for the first time and was at once startled and kind of tickled by the eventual sudden interjections by snarling brass. Did Feldman ever do that in a piece

before or since? Again, and maybe this is just me, in some way I found these passages almost amusing.

This essay makes a similar point about Flute and Orchestra

https://www.cnvill.net/mfrizzardi.pdf

I'm delighted that the author of that essay also found humor in those snarling forte interjections in Flute and Orchestra. One never knows whether one's subjective responses are at all sensible or merely private and maybe even a bit goofy.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 10:54:55 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Kart wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 10:27:53 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 4:10:08 AM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:55:31 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Kart wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:11:01 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 7:27:06 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his
capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from?

Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed
every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion that

blights our lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label of

all Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly incalcuably

varied in timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while Zukoksky and
Schroeder are somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat grainy tone
she brings to "For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

What do you think of Maurizio Barbetti's For Aaron Copland? (Haven't heard Fong's, and the set isn't easy to find in the UK.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFsgk3ilqw&list=OLAK5uy_lIEZ5M1JT4ZwL_oVyF1hKyJdQZuWeZNG8&index=3&ab_channel=MaurizioBarbetti-Topic

Found Barbetti on You Tube. Nice, but his timbre is more attenuated than Fong's and the shapes of her phrases are more songful; also her timbre is warmer and has a slight Hebraic throb at times, which IMO suits the work/evokes the dedicatee.

Another Feldman thought/question. This afternoon I belatedly listened to Flute and Orchestra for the first time and was at once startled and kind of tickled by the eventual sudden interjections by snarling brass. Did Feldman ever do that in a piece

before or since? Again, and maybe this is just me, in some way I found these passages almost amusing.

This essay makes a similar point about Flute and Orchestra

https://www.cnvill.net/mfrizzardi.pdf

I'm delighted that the author of that essay also found humor in those snarling forte interjections in Flute and Orchestra. One never knows whether one's subjective responses are at all sensible or merely private and maybe even a bit goofy.

Yesterday a copy of Feldman's Violin and Orchestra arrived. What an opulent work at times, at leasts by MF's standards. This thought probably would have driven him crazy, but I was reminded a bit of  the opening movement, "Nacht," of Richard Strauss'
Alpine Symphony.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 5:16:50 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 10:54:55 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Kart wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 10:27:53 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 4:10:08 AM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:55:31 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Kart wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:11:01 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 7:27:06 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>, Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his
capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from? Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed

every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion that

blights our lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label

of all Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly incalcuably

varied in timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while Zukoksky and
Schroeder are somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat grainy tone
she brings to "For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

What do you think of Maurizio Barbetti's For Aaron Copland? (Haven't heard Fong's, and the set isn't easy to find in the UK.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFsgk3ilqw&list=OLAK5uy_lIEZ5M1JT4ZwL_oVyF1hKyJdQZuWeZNG8&index=3&ab_channel=MaurizioBarbetti-Topic

Found Barbetti on You Tube. Nice, but his timbre is more attenuated than Fong's and the shapes of her phrases are more songful; also her timbre is warmer and has a slight Hebraic throb at times, which IMO suits the work/evokes the dedicatee.

Another Feldman thought/question. This afternoon I belatedly listened to Flute and Orchestra for the first time and was at once startled and kind of tickled by the eventual sudden interjections by snarling brass. Did Feldman ever do that in a

piece before or since? Again, and maybe this is just me, in some way I found these passages almost amusing.

This essay makes a similar point about Flute and Orchestra

https://www.cnvill.net/mfrizzardi.pdf

I'm delighted that the author of that essay also found humor in those snarling forte interjections in Flute and Orchestra. One never knows whether one's subjective responses are at all sensible or merely private and maybe even a bit goofy.

Yesterday a copy of Feldman's Violin and Orchestra arrived. What an opulent work at times, at leasts by MF's standards. This thought probably would have driven him crazy, but I was reminded a bit of the opening movement, "Nacht," of Richard Strauss'

Alpine Symphony.

Which one, Widman or Faust? Feldman’s music for large ensemble is often opulent I think - and I find it challenging to say the least (I’m not a great fan of orchestral music by anyone!)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 12:12:33 AM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 5:16:50 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 10:54:55 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Kart wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 10:27:53 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 4:10:08 AM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:55:31 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Kart wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 3:11:01 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 7:27:06 PM UTC, ljk...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:08:02 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:17:19 PM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:

In article <8f4cc4ee-8f98-4e51...@googlegroups.com>, Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:

The blurb says "Morton Feldman viewed Piano and String Quartet as his
capstone work" Does anyone know where idea comes from? Never heard the notion. But it wouldn't surprise me if he viewed

every one of his late piece that way... until the next one.

It's one of my favorites, though.

Yes it's very good, I listened Tilbury/Smith Quartet today.

I found this nice comment on Tilbury's website, talking about Howard Skempton's Notti Stellate a Vagli

"Rather than expressing a ‘form’ Skempton’s pieces express a state of being, and in this he resembles Morton Feldman. The music creates space and release for both performer and listener, providing an antidote to the congestion

that blights our lives; and in this important respect, Skempton, it seems to me, is satisfying a contemporary need."

Enthusiast
Moderator

12.8k

I'm curious at the moment about recordings of Feldman's "for John Cage" (for piano and violin). Over time I've acquired three of this 1982 work -- one by Christina Fong and Paul Hersey in a 2-CD collection on the obscure Ogre/Ogress label

of all Feldman's chamber music for violin, viola and piano, one with Eric Carlson and Alec Karis on Bridge, and a third with the late Paul Zukofsky and Marianne Schroeder on CP2.

Going by names/reputations, one of the latter two would seem to be the choice, but I much prefer the uncannily intimate Fong/Hersey version -- it seems to progress on a series of continuous underlying breaths, and the seemingly

incalcuably varied in timing pauses between piano and violin are full of rhythmic meaning -- geez, at times it almost swings! Carlson and Karis, by contrast are recorded rather close up, and phrasing is rather abrupt and segmented at times, while
Zukoksky and Schroeder are somewhere in between. FWIW Fong/Hersey runs 66 minutes, Carlson/Karis 71:46, and Zukofsky/Schroeder 77:10. I'll add that Fong's performance of Feldman's "For Aaron Copland" (1981) is a gem and reveals that the hushed somewhat
grainy tone she brings to "For John Cage" (this I find ideal for the work) is not the only string in her bow, so to speak. On "For Aaron Copland" her approach is warmer, more songful, and at times it even has a slight Hebraic throb.

What do you think of Maurizio Barbetti's For Aaron Copland? (Haven't heard Fong's, and the set isn't easy to find in the UK.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFsgk3ilqw&list=OLAK5uy_lIEZ5M1JT4ZwL_oVyF1hKyJdQZuWeZNG8&index=3&ab_channel=MaurizioBarbetti-Topic

Found Barbetti on You Tube. Nice, but his timbre is more attenuated than Fong's and the shapes of her phrases are more songful; also her timbre is warmer and has a slight Hebraic throb at times, which IMO suits the work/evokes the dedicatee.

Another Feldman thought/question. This afternoon I belatedly listened to Flute and Orchestra for the first time and was at once startled and kind of tickled by the eventual sudden interjections by snarling brass. Did Feldman ever do that in a

piece before or since? Again, and maybe this is just me, in some way I found these passages almost amusing.

This essay makes a similar point about Flute and Orchestra

https://www.cnvill.net/mfrizzardi.pdf

I'm delighted that the author of that essay also found humor in those snarling forte interjections in Flute and Orchestra. One never knows whether one's subjective responses are at all sensible or merely private and maybe even a bit goofy.

Yesterday a copy of Feldman's Violin and Orchestra arrived. What an opulent work at times, at leasts by MF's standards. This thought probably would have driven him crazy, but I was reminded a bit of the opening movement, "Nacht," of Richard Strauss'

Alpine Symphony.

Which one, Widman or Faust? Feldman’s music for large ensemble is often opulent I think - and I find it challenging to say the least (I’m not a great fan of orchestral music by anyone!)

Widman

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)