On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 7:41:19 PM UTC+1, Néstor Castiglione wrote:

On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 2:07:46 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:

I’ve been listening to his Grieg Lyric Pieces.

Someone told me that after the war, EMI really milked Gieseking’s facility to sight read, and had him record tons of music which he hardly knew and which he had no real interest in. And there’s a sense of that here, it’s kind of so easy and

spontaneous. But in this Grieg at least I think it’s a good thing: it’s as if he’s creating the music for the first time and discovering it as he plays.

This could be my imagination going into overdrive of course. But I’m enjoying it! And I want to hear some more of him.

I feel similarly about Gieseking's recording of Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words. It's maybe my favorite recording in all of Gieseking's discography.

Speaking about the Lyric Pieces, he recorded the Arietta, Op. 12, no. 1 for EMI, but for whatever reason it has never been issued on any format. Anybody know why?

The Songs Without Words is indeed special - partly because it isn’t lyrical! Or at least, that’s how or feels to me. I’ve been meaning to revisit these performances ever since you posted and have only gotten round to it today - it is a great
pleasure to hear.

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https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8022254--walter-gieseking-1933-1947


Anyone heard these “previously unissued’ performances on Music and Arts?

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On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 9:50:56 AM UTC, Mandryka wrote:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8022254--walter-gieseking-1933-1947

Anyone heard these “previously unissued’ performances on Music and Arts?

Found it on Spotify (search for Gieseking (1933 - 1947) )

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Mandryka schrieb am Donnerstag, 25. August 2022 um 18:41:19 UTC+2:

Any thoughts about the slow movement in the K491 with Karajan?

Gieseking is one of my favourite Mozart pianists, but I was actually quite disappointed in his KV 491 from what I heard, I didn't even make it to the slow movement. But thinking about it, he may actually be quite good in the slow movement; will listen
later when I have more time on my hands.

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On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:17:06 AM UTC, Marc S wrote:

Mandryka schrieb am Donnerstag, 25. August 2022 um 18:41:19 UTC+2:

Any thoughts about the slow movement in the K491 with Karajan?

Gieseking is one of my favourite Mozart pianists, but I was actually quite disappointed in his KV 491 from what I heard, I didn't even make it to the slow movement. But thinking about it, he may actually be quite good in the slow movement; will listen

later when I have more time on my hands.

I'm not sure when the 491 with Karajan was recorded, but I'm pretty sure it was very late in his career. Gieseking was in a bad road accident in the late '40s in which his wife died and he suffered two broken ankles. The performances after that are
sometimes marked by a feeling of someone enduring hardship without showing their feelings or complaining. That central movement of 491 is a case in point.

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Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:35:09 UTC+1:

Mandryka schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 19:38:41 UTC+1:

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:17:06 AM UTC, Marc S wrote:

Mandryka schrieb am Donnerstag, 25. August 2022 um 18:41:19 UTC+2:

Any thoughts about the slow movement in the K491 with Karajan?

Gieseking is one of my favourite Mozart pianists, but I was actually quite disappointed in his KV 491 from what I heard, I didn't even make it to the slow movement. But thinking about it, he may actually be quite good in the slow movement; will

listen later when I have more time on my hands.

I'm not sure when the 491 with Karajan was recorded, but I'm pretty sure it was very late in his career. Gieseking was in a bad road accident in the late '40s in which his wife died and he suffered two broken ankles. The performances after that are

sometimes marked by a feeling of someone enduring hardship without showing their feelings or complaining. That central movement of 491 is a case in point.

Thanks for this information, didn't know about this, and thanks for your thoughts.

Haven't yet read much about Gieseking's life. I remember reading Rubinstein and Horowitz being impressed by his pianism, but also "sabotaging" (or something) his career in the USA because of his connection to the Nazis (about which I haven't read too

much yet, but yes, it seems he was in one way or the other fond of the ideology as from what I have had; maybe not as much as others, but still not innocent).

Recording as from this page seems to be from 1953: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/12323289-Grieg-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-Von-Karajan-Concerto-En-La-Mineur

Haven't listened to it yet btw, I don't think I will have time today.

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Mandryka schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 19:38:41 UTC+1:

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:17:06 AM UTC, Marc S wrote:

Mandryka schrieb am Donnerstag, 25. August 2022 um 18:41:19 UTC+2:

Any thoughts about the slow movement in the K491 with Karajan?

Gieseking is one of my favourite Mozart pianists, but I was actually quite disappointed in his KV 491 from what I heard, I didn't even make it to the slow movement. But thinking about it, he may actually be quite good in the slow movement; will

listen later when I have more time on my hands.

I'm not sure when the 491 with Karajan was recorded, but I'm pretty sure it was very late in his career. Gieseking was in a bad road accident in the late '40s in which his wife died and he suffered two broken ankles. The performances after that are

sometimes marked by a feeling of someone enduring hardship without showing their feelings or complaining. That central movement of 491 is a case in point.

Thanks for this information, didn't know about this, and thanks for your thoughts.

Haven't yet read much about Gieseking's life. I remember reading Rubinstein and Horowitz being impressed by his pianism, but also "sabotaging" (or something) his career in the USA because of his connection to the Nazis (about which I haven't read too
much yet, but yes, it seems he was in one way or the other fond of the ideology as from what I have had; maybe not as much as others, but still not innocent).

Recording as from this page seems to be from 1953: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/12323289-Grieg-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-Von-Karajan-Concerto-En-La-Mineur

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Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:35:09 UTC+1:

Recording as from this page seems to be from 1953: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/12323289-Grieg-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-Von-Karajan-Concerto-En-La-Mineur

it's just the release date... sorry

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Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:37:02 UTC+1:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:35:09 UTC+1:

Recording as from this page seems to be from 1953: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/12323289-Grieg-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-Von-Karajan-Concerto-En-La-Mineur

it's just the release date... sorry

Ah found them: Recorded June 6 & 11, 1951 in London.

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/13135359-Grieg-Walter-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-von-Karajan-Concerto-In-A-Minor-Op-16

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I remember now that it was recorded in London in 1951 -- they had a marathon week of concerto recordings - Grieg, Schumann, two Beethovens, Mozart.

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Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:37:46 UTC+1:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:37:02 UTC+1:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:35:09 UTC+1:

Recording as from this page seems to be from 1953: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/12323289-Grieg-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-Von-Karajan-Concerto-En-La-Mineur

it's just the release date... sorry

Ah found them: Recorded June 6 & 11, 1951 in London.

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/13135359-Grieg-Walter-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-von-Karajan-Concerto-In-A-Minor-Op-16

God damn it... it's not even the right concerto, fuck discogs honestly, badly arranged. It was listed as a seperate release from the KV 491 recording - I'd be interested as well. Anyway, I will look into this further tomorrow.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 8:46:22 PM UTC, Marc S wrote:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:37:46 UTC+1:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:37:02 UTC+1:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:35:09 UTC+1:

Recording as from this page seems to be from 1953: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/12323289-Grieg-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-Von-Karajan-Concerto-En-La-Mineur

it's just the release date... sorry

Ah found them: Recorded June 6 & 11, 1951 in London.

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/13135359-Grieg-Walter-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-von-Karajan-Concerto-In-A-Minor-Op-16

God damn it... it's not even the right concerto, fuck discogs honestly, badly arranged. It was listed as a seperate release from the KV 491 recording - I'd be interested as well. Anyway, I will look into this further tomorrow.

1953. I was wrong to say 1951. They recorded the Schumann a couple of days before. In 1951 they had a crazy concerto marathon, but not 491.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7978595--walter-gieseking-poet-of-the-keyboard

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tirsdag den 24. januar 2023 kl. 10.50.56 UTC+1 skrev Mandryka:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8022254--walter-gieseking-1933-1947

Anyone heard these “previously unissued’ performances on Music and Arts?

Absolutely wonderful! One of my favourite boxes of Gieseking´s radio and live performances. I actually envy you the possibility of experiencing it for the first time

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Mandryka schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 22:25:42 UTC+1:

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 8:46:22 PM UTC, Marc S wrote:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:37:46 UTC+1:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:37:02 UTC+1:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:35:09 UTC+1:

Recording as from this page seems to be from 1953: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/12323289-Grieg-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-Von-Karajan-Concerto-En-La-Mineur

it's just the release date... sorry

Ah found them: Recorded June 6 & 11, 1951 in London.

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/13135359-Grieg-Walter-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-von-Karajan-Concerto-In-A-Minor-Op-16

God damn it... it's not even the right concerto, fuck discogs honestly, badly arranged. It was listed as a seperate release from the KV 491 recording - I'd be interested as well. Anyway, I will look into this further tomorrow.

1953. I was wrong to say 1951. They recorded the Schumann a couple of days before. In 1951 they had a crazy concerto marathon, but not 491.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7978595--walter-gieseking-poet-of-the-keyboard

Thank you for pointing it out. Just saw the replies.

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On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Mandryka schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 22:25:42 UTC+1:

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 8:46:22 PM UTC, Marc S wrote:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:37:46 UTC+1:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:37:02 UTC+1:

Marc S schrieb am Dienstag, 24. Januar 2023 um 21:35:09 UTC+1:

Recording as from this page seems to be from 1953: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/12323289-Grieg-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-Von-Karajan-Concerto-En-La-Mineur

it's just the release date... sorry

Ah found them: Recorded June 6 & 11, 1951 in London.

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/13135359-Grieg-Walter-Gieseking-Philharmonia-Orchestra-Herbert-von-Karajan-Concerto-In-A-Minor-Op-16

God damn it... it's not even the right concerto, fuck discogs honestly, badly arranged. It was listed as a seperate release from the KV 491 recording - I'd be interested as well. Anyway, I will look into this further tomorrow.

1953. I was wrong to say 1951. They recorded the Schumann a couple of days before. In 1951 they had a crazy concerto marathon, but not 491.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7978595--walter-gieseking-poet-of-the-keyboard

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't know what was wrong with me the last time. Maybe even my favorite KV 491 alongside Schnabel. WRT 2nd movement: it's not my favorite slow movement of mozart's pcs, which is why I thought that Gieseking -
given his style - after you mentioned him, would actually work quite well here, and yes, very beautiful.

What's your opinion? Do you like Gieseking's or Gould's take more, and why?

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dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

dk

I think in some way you actually like me, haha. Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes (Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that; only paranoid people would assume others to be shizo for changing their mind after reconsidering things...

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dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Well, you can't hate me if you're putting in work posting youtube links. Delude yourself more.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do.

There is a simple reason for this: my mind is faster than yours, thus my taste evolves faster.

Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

I do not believe your statement to be true, and you seem to forget that I do not like HJ Lim... but thanks for linking, maybe I'll find something nice. Not clicking on the HJ Lim links though - maybe some others will.

op. 31 no. 2:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiI8gA69iI

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4KS4dCh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbPdqennq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvJDErN37M

op. 53:

Gilels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8HFK9Qv7M

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-qf4OO1VhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuDykIjbgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_kwTERnMc

op. 57:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwzud6zIYA

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJ_SOhsbj4

WTC Book 1:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPoMHwkV39I

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

Alborada del Gracioso:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WtfA8jOYY

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkj-xn11F58

(note she walks/sits on water!)

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

Liszt Sonata:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3HcyTo_oo

Leschenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys66KJe4kBk

Hammerfuckingklavier:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5TWFMmPs

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYT67nV76M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-oytHPA0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOt--GPleU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2Qlv_711U

BMW 1052:

Le Lipatti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xby0P4YVYaQ
La Polina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg_WmeLxQk

...... and one can find countless more examples.

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 22:09:50 UTC+1:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Well, you can't hate me if you're putting in work posting youtube links. Delude yourself more.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do.

There is a simple reason for this: my mind is faster than yours, thus my taste evolves faster.

Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

I do not believe your statement to be true, and you seem to forget that I do not like HJ Lim... but thanks for linking, maybe I'll find something nice. Not clicking on the HJ Lim links though - maybe some others will.

op. 31 no. 2:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiI8gA69iI

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4KS4dCh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbPdqennq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvJDErN37M

op. 53:

Gilels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8HFK9Qv7M

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-qf4OO1VhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuDykIjbgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_kwTERnMc

op. 57:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwzud6zIYA

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJ_SOhsbj4

WTC Book 1:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPoMHwkV39I

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

Alborada del Gracioso:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WtfA8jOYY

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkj-xn11F58

(note she walks/sits on water!)

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

Liszt Sonata:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3HcyTo_oo

Leschenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys66KJe4kBk

Hammerfuckingklavier:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5TWFMmPs

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYT67nV76M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-oytHPA0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOt--GPleU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2Qlv_711U

BMW 1052:

Le Lipatti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xby0P4YVYaQ
La Polina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg_WmeLxQk

...... and one can find countless more examples.

dk

considering HJ Lim your taste actually devolved.

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On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do. Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:


op. 31 no. 2:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiI8gA69iI

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4KS4dCh7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbPdqennq8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvJDErN37M

op. 53:

Gilels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8HFK9Qv7M

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-qf4OO1VhM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuDykIjbgo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_kwTERnMc


op. 57:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwzud6zIYA

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJ_SOhsbj4


WTC Book 1:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPoMHwkV39I

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA


Alborada del Gracioso:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WtfA8jOYY

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkj-xn11F58

(note she walks/sits on water!)


Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk


Liszt Sonata:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3HcyTo_oo

Leschenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys66KJe4kBk


Hammerfuckingklavier:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5TWFMmPs

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYT67nV76M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-oytHPA0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOt--GPleU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2Qlv_711U


BMW 1052:

Le Lipatti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xby0P4YVYaQ
La Polina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg_WmeLxQk


...... and one can find countless more examples.

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 1:09:50 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Well, you can't hate me if you're putting in work
posting youtube links. Delude yourself more.

No one hates you more than you hate yourself. One
does not need a degree in clinical psychology to be
able to tell.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do.

There is a simple reason for this: my mind is
faster than yours, thus my taste evolves faster.

Your mind oscillates so fast it is self destructing.

Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

I do not believe your statement to be true, and
you seem to forget that I do not like HJ Lim...

You clearly did not read what I wrote and you
did not understand it. Whether one likes any
of the performances mentioned is besides
the point -- which is that there has been
plenty of change to challenge settled
notions of music interpretation and
piano performance. Wether one likes
the old(er) or the new(er) approaches
is a matter of personal preference.

but thanks for linking, maybe I'll find
something nice. Not clicking on the
HJ Lim links though - maybe some
others will.

Your loss. Keep in mind even the
finest sauerkraut can sour too
much over time to be edible.

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 22:12:35 UTC+1:

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 22:09:50 UTC+1:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Well, you can't hate me if you're putting in work posting youtube links. Delude yourself more.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do.

There is a simple reason for this: my mind is faster than yours, thus my taste evolves faster.

Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

I do not believe your statement to be true, and you seem to forget that I do not like HJ Lim... but thanks for linking, maybe I'll find something nice. Not clicking on the HJ Lim links though - maybe some others will.

op. 31 no. 2:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiI8gA69iI

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4KS4dCh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbPdqennq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvJDErN37M

op. 53:

Gilels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8HFK9Qv7M

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-qf4OO1VhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuDykIjbgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_kwTERnMc

op. 57:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwzud6zIYA

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJ_SOhsbj4

WTC Book 1:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPoMHwkV39I

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

Alborada del Gracioso:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WtfA8jOYY

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkj-xn11F58

(note she walks/sits on water!)

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

Liszt Sonata:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3HcyTo_oo

Leschenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys66KJe4kBk

Hammerfuckingklavier:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5TWFMmPs

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYT67nV76M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-oytHPA0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOt--GPleU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2Qlv_711U

BMW 1052:

Le Lipatti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xby0P4YVYaQ
La Polina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg_WmeLxQk

...... and one can find countless more examples.

dk

considering HJ Lim your taste actually devolved.

what I meant was regressed... devolve means something else, I meant de-evolved.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:58:30 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do. Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

op. 31 no. 2:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiI8gA69iI

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4KS4dCh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbPdqennq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvJDErN37M

op. 53:

Gilels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8HFK9Qv7M

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-qf4OO1VhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuDykIjbgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_kwTERnMc

op. 57:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwzud6zIYA

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJ_SOhsbj4

WTC Book 1:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPoMHwkV39I

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

Alborada del Gracioso:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WtfA8jOYY

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkj-xn11F58

(note she walks/sits on water!)

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

Liszt Sonata:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3HcyTo_oo

Leschenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys66KJe4kBk

Hammerfuckingklavier:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5TWFMmPs

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYT67nV76M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-oytHPA0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOt--GPleU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2Qlv_711U

BMW 1052:

Le Lipatti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xby0P4YVYaQ
La Polina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg_WmeLxQk

Also consider op. 39 no. 6:

Le Rachmaninov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUb6Jsnepe4

La Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shSSDbONGnQ


dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 22:49:35 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 1:09:50 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Well, you can't hate me if you're putting in work
posting youtube links. Delude yourself more.

No one hates you more than you hate yourself. One

Says who? The self-hating Jew?

does not need a degree in clinical psychology to be
able to tell.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do.

There is a simple reason for this: my mind is
faster than yours, thus my taste evolves faster.

Your mind oscillates so fast it is self destructing.

Not really. I am quite aware of things, my mind oscilliates with music, not with HJ Lim.

Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

I do not believe your statement to be true, and
you seem to forget that I do not like HJ Lim...

You clearly did not read what I wrote and you
did not understand it. Whether one likes any
of the performances mentioned is besides
the point -- which is that there has been
plenty of change to challenge settled
notions of music interpretation and
piano performance. Wether one likes
the old(er) or the new(er) approaches
is a matter of personal preference.

I perfectly understand your statement; I believe you are showcasing signs of paranoia again in assuming that I didn't understand you.

I believe that there are many performances that are still standing as compelling and unique after five decades - maybe even more than when they were first released, being confronted with the rubbish today, they almost seem like a message in a bottle,
showing us that music had better times.

but thanks for linking, maybe I'll find
something nice. Not clicking on the
HJ Lim links though - maybe some
others will.

Your loss. Keep in mind even the
finest sauerkraut can sour too
much over time to be edible.

This might be true for sauerkraut, but not for me, who is a proud kraut.

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 9:49:35 PM UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 1:09:50 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Well, you can't hate me if you're putting in work
posting youtube links. Delude yourself more.

No one hates you more than you hate yourself. One
does not need a degree in clinical psychology to be
able to tell.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do.

There is a simple reason for this: my mind is
faster than yours, thus my taste evolves faster.

Your mind oscillates so fast it is self destructing.

Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

I do not believe your statement to be true, and
you seem to forget that I do not like HJ Lim...

You clearly did not read what I wrote and you
did not understand it. Whether one likes any
of the performances mentioned is besides
the point -- which is that there has been
plenty of change to challenge settled
Wether one likes
the old(er) or the new(er) approaches
is a matter of personal preference.

but thanks for linking, maybe I'll find
something nice. Not clicking on the
HJ Lim links though - maybe some
others will.

Your loss. Keep in mind even the
finest sauerkraut can sour too
much over time to be edible.

dk

Im not sure your right Dan. For example, I don’t believe that Richter was ne plus ultra in WTC1, or op 106 or the Liszt sonata. There have always been people who found fault, and would have said that Richter could have learned a thing or two from, let�
��s say, Arrau and Rosalyn Tureck. I can’t speak about the concertos and Spanish music because I don’t know much about them, but I’d be surprised if the same wasn’t true (especially in Spain!)

What I’m saying is, it’s not “notions of music interpretation and [modern] piano performance” which have changed. It’s just that there are new performers presenting new perspectives, which DK finds himself preferring to Richter etc.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 23:41:03 UTC+1:

Mandryka schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 23:22:04 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 9:49:35 PM UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 1:09:50 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Well, you can't hate me if you're putting in work
posting youtube links. Delude yourself more.

No one hates you more than you hate yourself. One
does not need a degree in clinical psychology to be
able to tell.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do.

There is a simple reason for this: my mind is
faster than yours, thus my taste evolves faster.

Your mind oscillates so fast it is self destructing.

Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

I do not believe your statement to be true, and
you seem to forget that I do not like HJ Lim...

You clearly did not read what I wrote and you
did not understand it. Whether one likes any
of the performances mentioned is besides
the point -- which is that there has been
plenty of change to challenge settled
Wether one likes
the old(er) or the new(er) approaches
is a matter of personal preference.

but thanks for linking, maybe I'll find
something nice. Not clicking on the
HJ Lim links though - maybe some
others will.

Your loss. Keep in mind even the
finest sauerkraut can sour too
much over time to be edible.

dk

Im not sure your right Dan. For example, I don’t believe that Richter was ne plus ultra in WTC1, or op 106 or the Liszt sonata. There have always been people who found fault, and would have said that Richter could have learned a thing or two from,

let’s say, Arrau and Rosalyn Tureck. I can’t speak about the concertos and Spanish music because I don’t know much about them, but I’d be surprised if the same wasn’t true (especially in Spain!)

Saying that there are always people who find fault with a piece of art, does not amount to be an argument against the existence of aesthetic truth (that one work of art is better than the other). Why would you think it is?

What I’m saying is, it’s not “notions of music interpretation and [modern] piano performance” which have changed. It’s just that there are new performers presenting new perspectives, which DK finds himself preferring to Richter etc.

You often tend to level things. Ofc the "notions of music interpretation and [modern] piano performance" have changed. They change as society changes.

I remember Thielemann it was I believe saying "Furtwängler is great, but you can't do it like that today anymore"... obviously the notion of music interpration has changed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Marc S schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 23:41:03 UTC+1:

Mandryka schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 23:22:04 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 9:49:35 PM UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 1:09:50 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Well, you can't hate me if you're putting in work
posting youtube links. Delude yourself more.

No one hates you more than you hate yourself. One
does not need a degree in clinical psychology to be
able to tell.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do.

There is a simple reason for this: my mind is
faster than yours, thus my taste evolves faster.

Your mind oscillates so fast it is self destructing.

Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

I do not believe your statement to be true, and
you seem to forget that I do not like HJ Lim...

You clearly did not read what I wrote and you
did not understand it. Whether one likes any
of the performances mentioned is besides
the point -- which is that there has been
plenty of change to challenge settled
Wether one likes
the old(er) or the new(er) approaches
is a matter of personal preference.

but thanks for linking, maybe I'll find
something nice. Not clicking on the
HJ Lim links though - maybe some
others will.

Your loss. Keep in mind even the
finest sauerkraut can sour too
much over time to be edible.

dk

Im not sure your right Dan. For example, I don’t believe that Richter was ne plus ultra in WTC1, or op 106 or the Liszt sonata. There have always been people who found fault, and would have said that Richter could have learned a thing or two from,

let’s say, Arrau and Rosalyn Tureck. I can’t speak about the concertos and Spanish music because I don’t know much about them, but I’d be surprised if the same wasn’t true (especially in Spain!)

Saying that there are always people who find fault with a piece of art, does not amount to be an argument against the existence of aesthetic truth (that one work of art is better than the other). Why would you think it is?

What I’m saying is, it’s not “notions of music interpretation and [modern] piano performance” which have changed. It’s just that there are new performers presenting new perspectives, which DK finds himself preferring to Richter etc.

You often tend to level things. Ofc the "notions of music interpretation and [modern] piano performance" have changed. They change as society changes.

The notion of what a female or male is changes as well with society, it has gone so far even, that basic biological reality is denied with men wanting to be viewed as women. And the government and lefties are even supporting this nonsense.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Mandryka schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 23:22:04 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 9:49:35 PM UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 1:09:50 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Well, you can't hate me if you're putting in work
posting youtube links. Delude yourself more.

No one hates you more than you hate yourself. One
does not need a degree in clinical psychology to be
able to tell.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do.

There is a simple reason for this: my mind is
faster than yours, thus my taste evolves faster.

Your mind oscillates so fast it is self destructing.

Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

I do not believe your statement to be true, and
you seem to forget that I do not like HJ Lim...

You clearly did not read what I wrote and you
did not understand it. Whether one likes any
of the performances mentioned is besides
the point -- which is that there has been
plenty of change to challenge settled
Wether one likes
the old(er) or the new(er) approaches
is a matter of personal preference.

but thanks for linking, maybe I'll find
something nice. Not clicking on the
HJ Lim links though - maybe some
others will.

Your loss. Keep in mind even the
finest sauerkraut can sour too
much over time to be edible.

dk

Im not sure your right Dan. For example, I don’t believe that Richter was ne plus ultra in WTC1, or op 106 or the Liszt sonata. There have always been people who found fault, and would have said that Richter could have learned a thing or two from,

let’s say, Arrau and Rosalyn Tureck. I can’t speak about the concertos and Spanish music because I don’t know much about them, but I’d be surprised if the same wasn’t true (especially in Spain!)


Saying that there are always people who find fault with a piece of art, does not amount to be an argument against the existence of aesthetic truth (that one work of art is better than the other). Why would you think it is?

What I’m saying is, it’s not “notions of music interpretation and [modern] piano performance” which have changed. It’s just that there are new performers presenting new perspectives, which DK finds himself preferring to Richter etc.

You often tend to level things. Ofc the "notions of music interpretation and [modern] piano performance" have changed. They change as society changes.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 9:16:05 AM UTC, Mandryka wrote:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 8:58:30 PM UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do. Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

op. 31 no. 2:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiI8gA69iI

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4KS4dCh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbPdqennq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvJDErN37M

op. 53:

Gilels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8HFK9Qv7M

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-qf4OO1VhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuDykIjbgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_kwTERnMc

op. 57:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwzud6zIYA

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJ_SOhsbj4

WTC Book 1:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPoMHwkV39I

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

Alborada del Gracioso:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WtfA8jOYY

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkj-xn11F58

(note she walks/sits on water!)

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

Liszt Sonata:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3HcyTo_oo

Leschenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys66KJe4kBk

Hammerfuckingklavier:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5TWFMmPs

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYT67nV76M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-oytHPA0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOt--GPleU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2Qlv_711U

BMW 1052:

Le Lipatti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xby0P4YVYaQ
La Polina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg_WmeLxQk

...... and one can find countless more examples.

dk

I’m enjoying Osetinskaya’s Shostakovich op 34 - one thing leads to another I guess. I’m not much interested in concertos right now.

Though for me, not as interesting as Virsaladze. Osetinskaya plays them as a sequence of separate pieces, some Virsaladze makes them sound like a whole.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 8:58:30 PM UTC, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do. Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

op. 31 no. 2:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiI8gA69iI

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4KS4dCh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbPdqennq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvJDErN37M

op. 53:

Gilels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8HFK9Qv7M

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-qf4OO1VhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuDykIjbgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_kwTERnMc

op. 57:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwzud6zIYA

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJ_SOhsbj4

WTC Book 1:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPoMHwkV39I

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

Alborada del Gracioso:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WtfA8jOYY

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkj-xn11F58

(note she walks/sits on water!)

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

Liszt Sonata:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3HcyTo_oo

Leschenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys66KJe4kBk

Hammerfuckingklavier:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5TWFMmPs

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYT67nV76M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-oytHPA0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOt--GPleU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2Qlv_711U

BMW 1052:

Le Lipatti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xby0P4YVYaQ
La Polina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg_WmeLxQk

...... and one can find countless more examples.

dk

I’m enjoying Osetinskaya’s Shostakovich op 34 - one thing leads to another I guess. I’m not much interested in concertos right now.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do. Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

op. 31 no. 2:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiI8gA69iI

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4KS4dCh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbPdqennq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvJDErN37M

This piece is more challenging than Schoenberg to my ears.

op. 53:

Gilels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8HFK9Qv7M

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-qf4OO1VhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuDykIjbgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_kwTERnMc

Same goes for this piece.

op. 57:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwzud6zIYA

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJ_SOhsbj4

Also for this.

WTC Book 1:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPoMHwkV39I

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

We've already had this discussion once, but you seem to have forgotten about it. Richter by far.

Alborada del Gracioso:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WtfA8jOYY

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkj-xn11F58

(note she walks/sits on water!)

Don't like the piece, I'd rather listen to some Webern.

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

I much prefer Berg over Albeniz.

Liszt Sonata:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3HcyTo_oo

Leschenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys66KJe4kBk

No thanks.

Hammerfuckingklavier:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5TWFMmPs

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYT67nV76M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-oytHPA0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOt--GPleU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2Qlv_711U

No thanks as well.

BMW 1052:

Le Lipatti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xby0P4YVYaQ
La Polina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg_WmeLxQk

Polina is ofc way better, but both are not to my taste. In the past I liked Richter and Pletnev (yes, very different approach) the most, I think - would have to reconsider, I was always a bit unsatisfied in something with the recordings I listened to;
Richter just seems a bit too heavy in parts for my taste (maybe especially because of the orchestra), even though he gets the phrasing better than Pletnev; would have to reconsider.

...... and one can find countless more examples.

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:37:41 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do. Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

op. 31 no. 2:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiI8gA69iI

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4KS4dCh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbPdqennq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvJDErN37M

This piece is more challenging than Schoenberg to my ears.

op. 53:

Gilels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8HFK9Qv7M

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-qf4OO1VhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuDykIjbgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_kwTERnMc

Same goes for this piece.

op. 57:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwzud6zIYA

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJ_SOhsbj4

Also for this.

WTC Book 1:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPoMHwkV39I

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

We've already had this discussion once, but you seem to have forgotten about it. Richter by far.

Alborada del Gracioso:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WtfA8jOYY

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkj-xn11F58

(note she walks/sits on water!)

Don't like the piece, I'd rather listen to some Webern.

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

I much prefer Berg over Albeniz.

Liszt Sonata:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3HcyTo_oo

Leschenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys66KJe4kBk

No thanks.

Hammerfuckingklavier:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5TWFMmPs

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYT67nV76M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-oytHPA0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOt--GPleU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2Qlv_711U

No thanks as well.

BMW 1052:

Le Lipatti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xby0P4YVYaQ
La Polina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg_WmeLxQk

Polina is ofc way better, but both are not to my
taste. In the past I liked Richter and Pletnev (yes,
very different approach) the most, I think - would
have to reconsider, I was always a bit unsatisfied
in something with the recordings I listened to;
Richter just seems a bit too heavy in parts for
my taste (maybe especially because of the
orchestra), even though he gets the phrasing
better than Pletnev; would have to reconsider.

...... and one can find countless more examples.

As usual, you missed the point completely.
This isn't about what anyone likes or dislikes.
No one cares about what Marc S likes or not.

The point is that there has been a great deal
of change in intepretation over the past 50 or
so years, and great improvements in typical
technical abilities to make us reconsider our
earlier preferences.

You also don't read accurately or remember
what you heard: none of the above examples
had Richter play with an orchestra.

Now go back to your bunker and take your
daily Haloperidol.

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:28:32 PM UTC, KimDenmark wrote:

tirsdag den 24. januar 2023 kl. 10.50.56 UTC+1 skrev Mandryka:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8022254--walter-gieseking-1933-1947

Anyone heard these “previously unissued’ performances on Music and Arts?

Absolutely wonderful! One of my favourite boxes of Gieseking´s radio and live performances. I actually envy you the possibility of experiencing it for the first time

I agree, it's excellent. Gieseking had Bach in his soul!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 26. Januar 2023 um 18:02:44 UTC+1:

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:37:41 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 21:58:30 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. Januar 2023 um 20:48:33 UTC+1:

On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:36:38 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

I actually love Gieseking in KV 491, magical, don't
know what was wrong with me the last time.

Another schizo episode maybe?

I think in some way you actually like me, haha.

Delusion.

Anyway, you also change your mind sometimes
(Michelangeli in part), no need to be shizo for that;

My musical taste has evolved over time, however I
do not change my mind every 20 minutes as you
appear to do. Music performance has changed
greatly since the mid 1900s. Performances that
were thought to be "ne plus ultra" at their times
no longer stand as compelling or unique after
five decades. Here are a few examples:

op. 31 no. 2:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqiI8gA69iI

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4KS4dCh7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbPdqennq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvJDErN37M

This piece is more challenging than Schoenberg to my ears.

op. 53:

Gilels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8HFK9Qv7M

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-qf4OO1VhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIuDykIjbgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_kwTERnMc

Same goes for this piece.

op. 57:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwzud6zIYA

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFJ_SOhsbj4

Also for this.

WTC Book 1:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPoMHwkV39I

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8MA0miKxA

We've already had this discussion once, but you seem to have forgotten about it. Richter by far.

Alborada del Gracioso:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WtfA8jOYY

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkj-xn11F58

(note she walks/sits on water!)

Don't like the piece, I'd rather listen to some Webern.

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

I much prefer Berg over Albeniz.

Liszt Sonata:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3HcyTo_oo

Leschenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys66KJe4kBk

No thanks.

Hammerfuckingklavier:

Richter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5TWFMmPs

HJ Lim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYT67nV76M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-oytHPA0U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOt--GPleU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2Qlv_711U

No thanks as well.

BMW 1052:

Le Lipatti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xby0P4YVYaQ
La Polina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osg_WmeLxQk

Polina is ofc way better, but both are not to my
taste. In the past I liked Richter and Pletnev (yes,
very different approach) the most, I think - would
have to reconsider, I was always a bit unsatisfied
in something with the recordings I listened to;
Richter just seems a bit too heavy in parts for
my taste (maybe especially because of the
orchestra), even though he gets the phrasing
better than Pletnev; would have to reconsider.

...... and one can find countless more examples.

As usual, you missed the point completely.

You didn't make a point, since your argumentation was completely flawed, it was condensed to a few youtube links and some "wise" words.

This isn't about what anyone likes or dislikes.
No one cares about what Marc S likes or not.

I care about what I like though. Just organizing my thoughts. Am I forbidden of doing so? I am not asking anyone to care about it, certainly not you.

The point is that there has been a great deal
of change in intepretation over the past 50 or
so years, and great improvements in typical
technical abilities to make us reconsider our
earlier preferences.

Well your argumenation, which is based solely on the technical side of things, certainly didn't convince me to reconsider my preferences.

You also have to keep in mind - and I know this is difficult for you since you seem to forget a lot of things - is that I discovered some recordings that you consider to be "earlier preferences" quite late in my listening journey.

You also don't read accurately or remember
what you heard: none of the above examples
had Richter play with an orchestra.

I know. What are you talking about? I was talking about Richter in BWV 1052, just thinking.

Now go back to your bunker and take your
daily Haloperidol.

dk

I think it's rather you that shouldn't forget to take his pills, I'm still young.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:37:41 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

I much prefer Berg over Albeniz.

If you prefer Berg over Albeniz you
are deaf and dumb and an absolute
kraut. All good music is German,
right? There is no other music
than German, right? Imbecile!
Kraut! Brainfucked Nazi!

dk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Mandryka schrieb am Donnerstag, 26. Januar 2023 um 18:09:48 UTC+1:

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:28:32 PM UTC, KimDenmark wrote:

tirsdag den 24. januar 2023 kl. 10.50.56 UTC+1 skrev Mandryka:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8022254--walter-gieseking-1933-1947

Anyone heard these “previously unissued’ performances on Music and Arts?

Absolutely wonderful! One of my favourite boxes of Gieseking´s radio and live performances. I actually envy you the possibility of experiencing it for the first time

I agree, it's excellent. Gieseking had Bach in his soul!

Very good idea, I shall listen later.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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dan....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 26. Januar 2023 um 18:18:42 UTC+1:

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 4:37:41 AM UTC-8, Marc S wrote:

Lavapies:

Alicia de Larrocha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGujQSnzYA

Gustavo Diaz Jerez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbnpo_IbxMk

I much prefer Berg over Albeniz.

If you prefer Berg over Albeniz you
are deaf and dumb and an absolute
kraut. All good music is German,
right? There is no other music
than German, right? Imbecile!
Kraut! Brainfucked Nazi!

dk

What happened to you, man...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:09:48 PM UTC, Mandryka wrote:

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:28:32 PM UTC, KimDenmark wrote:

tirsdag den 24. januar 2023 kl. 10.50.56 UTC+1 skrev Mandryka:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8022254--walter-gieseking-1933-1947

Anyone heard these “previously unissued’ performances on Music and Arts?

Absolutely wonderful! One of my favourite boxes of Gieseking´s radio and live performances. I actually envy you the possibility of experiencing it for the first time

I agree, it's excellent. Gieseking had Bach in his soul!

Schumann more in his soul than Bach -- this Symphonic Etudes is incandescent!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Marc S schrieb am Donnerstag, 26. Januar 2023 um 22:40:05 UTC+1:

Mandryka schrieb am Donnerstag, 26. Januar 2023 um 18:35:56 UTC+1:

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:09:48 PM UTC, Mandryka wrote:

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:28:32 PM UTC, KimDenmark wrote:

tirsdag den 24. januar 2023 kl. 10.50.56 UTC+1 skrev Mandryka:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8022254--walter-gieseking-1933-1947

Anyone heard these “previously unissued’ performances on Music and Arts?

Absolutely wonderful! One of my favourite boxes of Gieseking´s radio and live performances. I actually envy you the possibility of experiencing it for the first time

I agree, it's excellent. Gieseking had Bach in his soul!

Schumann more in his soul than Bach -- this Symphonic Etudes is incandescent!

I have to say after reconsidering some Mendelssohn and while doing so being remembered of others works I heard of him, no thanks. Much prefer Schumann, Brahms (even though I have problems with his denseness) and Mahler. I guess my ranking would be

something like Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Haydn, Schubert (not sure if I will be switching them one day), Schumann, Brahms, Mahler, (not so sure between Brahms and Mahler wrt places as well), Schoenberg, Webern, Berg (but the last 3 might change in places;
actually more places might change, but these are more or less my preferences now, and I am becoming more sure the more I think about it).

I don't think Gieseking is good in Schumann from what I heard; and I don't like his Bach as well. But his Mozart I like.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Mandryka schrieb am Donnerstag, 26. Januar 2023 um 18:35:56 UTC+1:

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 5:09:48 PM UTC, Mandryka wrote:

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:28:32 PM UTC, KimDenmark wrote:

tirsdag den 24. januar 2023 kl. 10.50.56 UTC+1 skrev Mandryka:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8022254--walter-gieseking-1933-1947

Anyone heard these “previously unissued’ performances on Music and Arts?

Absolutely wonderful! One of my favourite boxes of Gieseking´s radio and live performances. I actually envy you the possibility of experiencing it for the first time

I agree, it's excellent. Gieseking had Bach in his soul!

Schumann more in his soul than Bach -- this Symphonic Etudes is incandescent!

I have to say after reconsidering some Mendelssohn and while doing so being remembered of others works I heard of him, no thanks. Much prefer Schumann, Brahms (even though I have problems with his denseness) and Mahler. I guess my ranking would be
something like Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Haydn, Schubert (not sure if I will be switching them one day), Schumann, Brahms, Mahler, (not so sure between Brahms and Mahler wrt places as well), Schoenberg, Webern, Berg (but the last 3 might change in places;
actually more places might change, but these are more or less my preferences now, and I am becoming more sure the more I think about it).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)