I haven't seen a thread on this for a while so hoping for an update. Presumably we include harpsichord, clavichord and various types of firewood, though my primary interest is the piano.
Several complete piano versions from the likes of Richter, Feinberg, Gould, Gavrilov, Fischer, Tureck, Schiff and others........
So who are your choices to navigate us through this major work?
Just listening to the WTC this morning. I made a rag, tag and bobtail playlist on YT of Book 1, containing Gavrilov, Backhaus, Gieseking, Gould, Nikolayeva, Demus, Richter and Myra Hess. Can't remember how I put it together but it must have beenindividual P&Fs that caught my fancy in what was available on YT.
Can we update this thread for whatever we have available in 2023? May not be much different.
On Saturday, 11 March 2023 at 12:59:02 UTC, HT wrote:
Update in what sense? Posting our favorites per P&F?
HenkSure, if you'd like to. I imagine this is a work that most of us come back to at one time or another.
Update in what sense? Posting our favorites per P&F?
Henk
Just listening to the WTC this morning. I made a rag, tag and bobtail playlist on YT of Book 1, containing Gavrilov, Backhaus, Gieseking, Gould, Nikolayeva, Demus, Richter and Myra Hess. Can't remember how I put it together but it must have beenindividual P&Fs that caught my fancy in what was available on YT.
Can we update this thread for whatever we have available in 2023? May not be much different.
Can we update this thread for whatever we have available in 2023? May not be much different.
I play a P&F every day - in isolation (suspecting that I'm the only one enjoying that moment). I'll see what I can do with the list.
Henk
released viol transcriptions but I haven't heard them, and Tzimon Barto's is about to be rereleased.Can we update this thread for whatever we have available in 2023? May not be much different.Enrico Baiano's and Naova Otsuka's new recordings are at least interesting, I've not really had time to listen to them attentively but I can see they're interesting and I have friends who say they think they're actually quite good. Phantasm have
Bach WTC book I piano version.Lang, Margulis, McGregor, Pollini, Richter, Schiff, Sokolov.
First round. Listened to all the BWV 846 fugues I could find and eliminated the performers I didn't like and hadn't heard of before (with one exception). Among the better know I won't return to Aimard, Hewitt, HJLim, Jando, Jarrett, Koroliov, Lang
Henk
Just listening to the WTC this morning. I made a rag, tag and bobtail playlist on YT of Book 1, containing Gavrilov, Backhaus, Gieseking,
Gould, Nikolayeva, Demus, Richter and Myra Hess. Can't remember
how I put it together but it must have been individual P&Fs that caught
my fancy in what was available on YT.
Can we update this thread for whatever we have available in 2023?
May not be much different.
I don't use any streaming service, so I have to make do
with YouTube which doesn't have the best choice here.
Bach WTC book I piano version.
First round. Listened to all the BWV
846 fugues I could find and eliminated
the performers I didn't like and hadn't
heard of before (with one exception).
Among the better know I won't return
to Aimard, Hewitt, HJLim, Jando, Jarrett,
Koroliov, Lang Lang, Margulis, McGregor,
Pollini, Richter, Schiff, Sokolov.
Second round. I'll next compare the
performances on YT of BWV 867
prelude and fugue. It will take
some time.
On Saturday, 11 March 2023 at 20:34:14 UTC, HT wrote:Lang, Margulis, McGregor, Pollini, Richter, Schiff, Sokolov.
Bach WTC book I piano version.
First round. Listened to all the BWV 846 fugues I could find and eliminated the performers I didn't like and hadn't heard of before (with one exception). Among the better know I won't return to Aimard, Hewitt, HJLim, Jando, Jarrett, Koroliov, Lang
Henk
Agree with all those except the occasional Hewitt.
I have no idea if Bach played with elegance and charm. He was a genius, so why not? Whatever the answer to that is, I like my Bach played with as much elegance and charm as can be achieved on a modern piano. Why not?
On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 10:36:23 PM UTC, Andy Evans wrote:
I have no idea if Bach played with elegance and charm.
Elegance and charm was Hewitt’s aim in the 2008
recording so I’m not surprised you say what you said.
It would be more useful to list the
versions you liked. As Herman and
John Gavin like to say, highlight the
"positive".
It would also be more useful if you
could state (however briefly) the
reasons why you liked a version
or not.
On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 3:00:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
Proof of Bach’s transcendental greatness is
that such radically different interpretations
as Landowska and Feinberg can be excellent
and compelling.
How about HJ Lim and John Lewis?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQKqPVtrEiKM1HGAMiZLvTlSwwNNdugUy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22yLbGU3obA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH7LJO5H7oI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTEUs4wo-9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9SarP5SYSE
PS. Landowska's is not an "interpretation". She
said many times she played Bach as he meant
to be played. IIRC she advised Herbert Samuel
to play Bach on the harpsichord. Reportedly
Samuel said "But, Mme Landowska, I don't
like the harpsichord". To which Landowska
replied "very well, Mr.Samuel, you play Bach
your way, and I play Bach his way!". What
an arrogant bitch!
Proof of Bach’s transcendental greatness is
that such radically different interpretations
as Landowska and Feinberg can be excellent
and compelling.
Op zondag 12 maart 2023 om 00:52:18 UTC+1 schreef Dan Koren:
It would be more useful to list the
versions you liked. As Herman and
John Gavin like to say, highlight the
"positive".
As indicated in my post, this is highlighting
the positive. All the rest I do more or less
like. The next step is to determine who I
like best.
The third step will be to determine who of
the ones I like best plays ta BWV 8xx the
best - in my humble opinion of course.
It would also be more useful if you
could state (however briefly) the
reasons why you liked a version
or not.
I will certainly do so in the third round.
Good to hear you want all things to
be done properly.
As long as I'm a member of RMCR,
I have had this feeling that you'd
make a great moderator.
Op zondag 12 maart 2023 om 00:52:18 UTC+1 schreef Dan Koren:opinion of course.
It would be more useful to list theAs indicated in my post, this is highlighting the positive. All the rest I do more or less like. The next step is to determine who I like best. The third step will be to determine who of the ones I like best plays ta BWV 8xx the best - in my humble
versions you liked. As Herman and
John Gavin like to say, highlight the
"positive".
It would also be more useful if youI will certainly do so in the third round.
could state (however briefly) the
reasons why you liked a version
or not.
Good to hear you want all things to be done properly. As long as I'm a member of RMCR, I have had this feeling that you'd make a great moderator.
Henk
IIRC she advised Herbert Samuel
to play Bach on the harpsichord. ReportedlyThat kitten should have smacked her face!
Samuel said "But, Mme Landowska, I don't
like the harpsichord". To which Landowska
replied "very well, Mr.Samuel, you play Bach
your way, and I play Bach his way!". What
an arrogant bitch!
That kitten should have smacked her face!
As long as I'm a member of RMCR,I have no interest in being a moderator.
I have had this feeling that you'd
make a great moderator.
I prefer to be a catalyst.
Melmoth would
make an ideal moderator.
On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 11:27:54 AM UTC+1, Herman wrote:
That kitten should have smacked her face!
And again, violence against female
performers advocated, no surprise
here.
On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 11:27:54 AM UTC+1, Herman wrote:
That kitten should have smacked her face!
And again, violence against female
performers advocated, no surprise
here.
On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 8:20:46 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 16:12:30 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
You have been excommunicated, effectiveYou must listen only to HJ Lim, of course.Please, no! She would be close to the bottom
of the list - impulsive shapeless playing with
a lot of micro-pauses before notes.
immediately! ;-)
Now seriously, HJ Lim is the only pianist
who makes the WTC sound completely
fresh, as if it were improvised on the spot
like jazz. Compared to her, everyone else
sounds square, dull, wooden and boring.
Even Richter, Fischer, Gulda and Feinberg.
From the mainstream performances, the
only one I can still tolerate is Feltsman.
I also like John Lewis + MJQ.
dk
Here's my YouTube playlist. It was made up in
function of the individual P&Fs that were available.
What's obvious is that there are a number of good
pianists here, but that the choice varies very much
with each individual P&F. Often a question of speed
- I chose the speeds that seemed to sit well with each
P&F. And also touch - even Gould can be sensitive to
touch on occasion. Both Gould and Nikolayeva "take
apart" the voices. Sometimes this works, but I generally
chose more flowing versions from Gieseking, Demus
and others.
Book 1
1. Backhaus
2. Gavrilov
3. Hess
4. Gieseking
5. Gavrilov
6. Demus
7. Demus
8. Gieseking
9. Gieseking
10. Nikolayeva
11. Demus
12. Demus
13. Gieseking
14. Demus
15. Demus
16. Gieseking
17. Gieseking
18. Gieseking
19. Gieseking
20. Nikolayeva
21. Gould
22. Gieseking
23. Gould
24. Gieseking
Book 2
1. Nikolayeva
2. Demidenko
3. Demidenko
4. Otto
5. Demidenko
6. Nikolayeva
7. Anderszewski
8. Nikolayeva
9. Anderszewski
10. Nikolayeva
11. Anderszewski
12. Anderszewski
13. Hewitt
14. Hewitt
15. Hewitt
16. Hewitt
17. Hewitt
18. Nikolayeva
19. Nikolayeva
20. Hewitt
21. Nikolayeva
22. Nikolayeva
23. Hewitt
24. Anderszewski
Here's my YouTube playlist. It was made up in function of the individual P&Fs that were available.sensitive to touch on occasion. Both Gould and Nikolayeva "take apart" the voices. Sometimes this works, but I generally chose more flowing versions from Gieseking, Demus and others.
What's obvious is that there are a number of good pianists here, but that the choice varies very much with each individual P&F. Often a question of speed - I chose the speeds that seemed to sit well with each P&F. And also touch - even Gould can be
Book 1
1. Backhaus
2. Gavrilov
3. Hess
4. Gieseking
5. Gavrilov
6. Demus
7. Demus
8. Gieseking
9. Gieseking
10. Nikolayeva
11. Demus
12. Demus
13. Gieseking
14. Demus
15. Demus
16. Gieseking
17. Gieseking
18. Gieseking
19. Gieseking
20. Nikolayeva
21. Gould
22. Gieseking
23. Gould
24. Gieseking
Book 2
1. Nikolayeva
2. Demidenko
3. Demidenko
4. Otto
5. Demidenko
6. Nikolayeva
7. Anderszewski
8. Nikolayeva
9. Anderszewski
10. Nikolayeva
11. Anderszewski
12. Anderszewski
13. Hewitt
14. Hewitt
15. Hewitt
16. Hewitt
17. Hewitt
18. Nikolayeva
19. Nikolayeva
20. Hewitt
21. Nikolayeva
22. Nikolayeva
23. Hewitt
24. Anderszewski
On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 11:51:42 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 8:20:46 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 16:12:30 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
You have been excommunicated, effectiveYou must listen only to HJ Lim, of course.Please, no! She would be close to the bottom
of the list - impulsive shapeless playing with
a lot of micro-pauses before notes.
immediately! ;-)
Now seriously, HJ Lim is the only pianist
who makes the WTC sound completely
fresh, as if it were improvised on the spot
like jazz. Compared to her, everyone else
sounds square, dull, wooden and boring.
Even Richter, Fischer, Gulda and Feinberg.
From the mainstream performances, the
only one I can still tolerate is Feltsman.
I also like John Lewis + MJQ.
Landowska -- dead in the water.
Who is Otto?
On Sunday, 12 March 2023 at 16:31:04 UTC, Mandryka wrote:well as CD recordings."
Who is Otto?
Gerlinde Otto. She made a decent set without reaching the heights. "Professor at the Academy of Music in Weimar. In addition to her solo career, Gerlinde Otto is a versatile chamber musician and Lied-accompanist. She has been on the jury at international piano competitions and contributed to radio and television as
Not on YT afaik:
Fellner. BWV 867 not on YT
Hess. BWV 867 not on YT.
Olafsson. BWV 867 not on YT.
BWV 867 P&F
BWV 867 P&F #22 Book 1
Performers who'll go to the next/last round:
Henk
On Sunday, 12 March 2023 at 18:04:30 UTC, HT wrote:possibly Kempff but not sure. This is for the 2 books, not just BWV867. I would not be interested in the other pianists on your list.
BWV 867 P&F #22 Book 1
Performers who'll go to the next/last round:
Henk
I'm not convinced that you can tell anything definitive with just one P&F. I've listened to quite a large selection now, and from your list I'd take the same ones I listed - Gieseking, Demus (not the 1954), Nikolayeva, Gould, Feinberg, Fischer and
And for the rest of the WTC I'd add Gavrilov, Hewitt, Anderszewski, Demidenko, Backhaus and Hess.
Like you, this is work in progress for me. I may change some on my list.
Bach WTC book I piano version.Margulis, McGregor, Pollini, Richter, Schiff, Sokolov.
First round. Listened to all the BWV 846 fugues I could find and eliminated the performers I didn't like and hadn't heard of before (with one exception). Among the better know I won't return to Aimard, Hewitt, HJLim, Jando, Jarrett, Koroliov, Lang Lang,
Second round. I'll next compare the performances on YT of BWV 867 prelude and fugue. It will take some time.
Henk
On Sat, 11 Mar 2023, HT wrote:
Bach WTC book I piano version.
First round. Listened to all the BWV 846 fugues I could find and eliminated >> the performers I didn't like and hadn't heard of before (with one
exception). Among the better know I won't return to Aimard, Hewitt, HJLim, >> Jando, Jarrett, Koroliov, Lang Lang, Margulis, McGregor, Pollini, Richter, >> Schiff, Sokolov.
Second round. I'll next compare the performances on YT of BWV 867 prelude
and fugue. It will take some time.
Henk
Oh, great, advice on what not to listen to. :)
Can we expect 95 more such posts?
More seriously, it would be nice to know your personal criteria.
BWV 867 P&F
Performers who'll go to the next/last round:
Barenboim. Plays very well and is far more interesting than I expected. Crochet. The ideal elegant version.
Feinberg. Different from all the others. He proves that Bach and rubato go well together.
Feltsman. An almost perfect modern version.
Fischer. Perhaps my favourite version. In Belgium they would praise the "serenity" of his performance.
Gould. Different from all the others. It's like he is dissecting a frog. Ishizaka. Disappointing, after an excellent performance of the fugue of BWV 846, but still interesting enough.
Kempff. Excellent traditional version. Homecoming.
Nikolayeva. Friendly, warm, elegant.
Ugorskaya. Modern piano playing in the best sense of the word. Excellent technique. Very sympathetic version.
Xiao-Mei. Intriguing. I want to hear more.
Good but nog good enough:
Ashkenazy. His tone becomes a problem after som listening.
Demus. Correct and easy to listen to, but that's all.
Gieseking. Good. Better than Demus. The competition is great.
Gulda. Slow!
Horszowski. Difficult to listen to. Technique?
Lifschitz. Too metronomic.
Loesser. Good, like Gieseking but slightly less interesting.
Martins. Different from all others in a clumsy and sometimes clanging way. Pienaar. Correct and easy to listen to - but that's not enough.
Stadtfeld. As if he doesn't care.
Szasz. Not bad at all, but not good enough.
Tureck. If only she weren't so slow.
Woodward. The god Thor would immediately return home, hearing RW's hammering.
Yudina. Fascinating prelude but the fugue is a disaster.
Not on YT afaik:
Fellner. BWV 867 not on YT
Hess. BWV 867 not on YT.
Olafsson. BWV 867 not on YT.
Henk
On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 6:04:30 PM UTC, HT wrote:
BWV 867 P&F
Performers who'll go to the next/last round:
Barenboim. Plays very well and is far more
interesting than I expected.
Crochet. The ideal elegant version.
Feinberg. Different from all the others. He proves
that Bach and rubato go well together.
Feltsman. An almost perfect modern version.
Fischer. Perhaps my favourite version. In Belgium
they would praise the "serenity" of his performance.
Gould. Different from all the others. It's like he is
dissecting a frog.
Ishizaka. Disappointing, after an excellent performance
of the fugue of BWV 846, but still interesting enough.
Kempff. Excellent traditional version. Homecoming.
Nikolayeva. Friendly, warm, elegant.
Ugorskaya. Modern piano playing in the best sense
of the word. Excellent technique. Very sympathetic
version. Xiao-Mei. Intriguing. I want to hear more.
Good but nog good enough:
Ashkenazy. His tone becomes a problem after
som listening.
Demus. Correct and easy to listen to, but that's all.
Gieseking. Good. Better than Demus. The competition is great.
Gulda. Slow!
Horszowski. Difficult to listen to. Technique?
Lifschitz. Too metronomic.
Loesser. Good, like Gieseking but slightly less interesting.
Martins. Different from all others in a clumsy and sometimes clanging way.
Pienaar. Correct and easy to listen to - but that's not enough.
Stadtfeld. As if he doesn't care.
Szasz. Not bad at all, but not good enough.
Tureck. If only she weren't so slow.
Woodward. The god Thor would immediately return home, hearing RW's hammering.
Yudina. Fascinating prelude but the fugue is a disaster.
Not on YT afaik:
Fellner. BWV 867 not on YT
Hess. BWV 867 not on YT.
Olafsson. BWV 867 not on YT.
On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 3:00:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
Proof of Bach’s transcendental greatness is
that such radically different interpretations
as Landowska and Feinberg can be excellent
and compelling.
How about HJ Lim and John Lewis?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQKqPVtrEiKM1HGAMiZLvTlSwwNNdugUy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22yLbGU3obA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH7LJO5H7oI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTEUs4wo-9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9SarP5SYSE
dk
PS. Landowska's is not an "interpretation". She
said many times she played Bach as he meant
to be played. IIRC she advised Herbert Samuel
to play Bach on the harpsichord. Reportedly
Samuel said "But, Mme Landowska, I don't
like the harpsichord". To which Landowska
replied "very well, Mr.Samuel, you play Bach
your way, and I play Bach his way!". What
an arrogant bitch!
On 2023-03-12 4:11 a.m., Dan Koren wrote:
On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 3:00:19 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
Proof of Bach’s transcendental greatness is
that such radically different interpretations
as Landowska and Feinberg can be excellent
and compelling.
How about HJ Lim and John Lewis?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQKqPVtrEiKM1HGAMiZLvTlSwwNNdugUy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22yLbGU3obA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH7LJO5H7oI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTEUs4wo-9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9SarP5SYSE
PS. Landowska's is not an "interpretation". She
said many times she played Bach as he meant
to be played. IIRC she advised Herbert Samuel
to play Bach on the harpsichord. Reportedly
Samuel said "But, Mme Landowska, I don't
like the harpsichord". To which Landowska
replied "very well, Mr.Samuel, you play Bach
your way, and I play Bach his way!". What
an arrogant bitch!
Didn't tortoise Tureck say that?
HJ Lim makes more music out of it than all the above combined:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5co3wLzKOhc
dk
On Sunday, 12 March 2023 at 23:32:10 UTC, Dan Koren wrote:
HJ Lim makes more music out of it than all the above combined:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5co3wLzKOhc
A WTC for driving your car into ditches.....
Surprisingly, we hardly disagree on who I am not taking to the third round. The exceptions are Gieseking and Demus (whom I know and appreciate, but not enough to re-listen to all 24 P&Fs).
Henk
On Sunday, 12 March 2023 at 21:51:37 UTC, HT wrote:
But my most pleasant discovery is Helene Grimaud,
who goes to the top of my list. Unfortunately all I can
find on YT is Book1 #1, #2, #4, and Book 2, #3 (prelude
only), #6, #9, #20. I don't know if she recorded any more
than that.
I see only 847, 849, 875, 879, 889, on Amazon Music. I
suspect these come from encores after her concerts.
On 2023-03-14 01:53:11 +0000, Dan Koren said:
 It is a well known trick among pianists to play a WTCprelfugue as an
encore in order to stop more encorerequests and to make the audience
leave.
Hilarious. And undoubtedly true!
-Owen
It is a well known trick among pianists to play a WTCprelfugue as an
encore in order to stop more encorerequests and to make the audience
leave.
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