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  • Re: Little Richard - I Am Everything - on CNN tonight at 9 PM ET

    From Bill B@21:1/5 to Bruce on Mon Sep 4 13:44:04 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary

    Thanks. Set my recorder. CNN?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Mon Sep 4 13:49:13 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:44:06 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary

    Thanks. Set my recorder. CNN?

    Yes

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 4 13:23:32 2023
    Two hour documentary

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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Bruce on Mon Sep 4 14:22:00 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:49:15 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:44:06 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary

    Thanks. Set my recorder. CNN?
    Yes

    I meant it is unusual to see a documentary on CNN as far as I'm aware.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Mon Sep 4 14:23:05 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:22:03 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:49:15 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:44:06 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary

    Thanks. Set my recorder. CNN?
    Yes
    I meant it is unusual to see a documentary on CNN as far as I'm aware.

    They have them at night on weekends and holidays.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Mark D. on Mon Sep 4 14:51:13 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 4:22:00 PM CDT, "Bill B" <bb...@optonline.net> wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:49:15 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:44:06 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary

    Thanks. Set my recorder. CNN?
    Yes

    I meant it is unusual to see a documentary on CNN as far as I'm aware.
    The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in the worst current manner.

    I don't consider the current matter of discussing mistreatment because of race to be bad at all, and I have heard that much of it is about his gayness. Richard never had a gender problem. He was a man who liked men. Just a regular old homosexual.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mark D.@21:1/5 to Bill B on Mon Sep 4 21:43:09 2023
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 4:22:00 PM CDT, "Bill B" <bbug2@optonline.net> wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:49:15 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:44:06 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary

    Thanks. Set my recorder. CNN?
    Yes

    I meant it is unusual to see a documentary on CNN as far as I'm aware.

    The way they've been advertising it and even doing onterviews about it, it's probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in the worst current manner.

    --md

    remove "xx" for email

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mark D.@21:1/5 to Bruce on Mon Sep 4 23:43:36 2023
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 4:51:13 PM CDT, "Bruce" <SavoyBG@aol.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 4:22:00 PM CDT, "Bill B" <bb...@optonline.net> wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:49:15 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:44:06 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary

    Thanks. Set my recorder. CNN?
    Yes

    I meant it is unusual to see a documentary on CNN as far as I'm aware.
    The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's >> probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in >> the worst current manner.

    I don't consider the current matter of discussing mistreatment because of race
    to be bad at all, and I have heard that much of it is about his gayness. Richard never had a gender problem. He was a man who liked men. Just a regular
    old homosexual.

    Nowadays its all gender, with one flag--LBGTQ+. Not that there's anything
    wrong with that.

    --md

    remove "xx" for email

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dean F.@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 4 17:46:33 2023
    Saw it in a movie theater and rather enjoyed it, even if the filmmaker (who is gay) clearly had an agenda to fill.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Dean F. on Mon Sep 4 17:49:58 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 8:46:35 PM UTC-4, Dean F. wrote:

    Saw it in a movie theater and rather enjoyed it, even if the filmmaker (who is gay) clearly had an agenda to fill.

    Every filmmaker has an agenda. Even if it's 100% about music with not even a mention of his sexuality, that's an agenda.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Mark D. on Mon Sep 4 17:36:35 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:43:45 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 4:51:13 PM CDT, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 4:22:00 PM CDT, "Bill B" <bb...@optonline.net> wrote: >>
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:49:15 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:44:06 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote: >>>>>> Two hour documentary

    Thanks. Set my recorder. CNN?
    Yes

    I meant it is unusual to see a documentary on CNN as far as I'm aware. >> The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's
    probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in
    the worst current manner.

    I don't consider the current matter of discussing mistreatment because of race
    to be bad at all, and I have heard that much of it is about his gayness. Richard never had a gender problem. He was a man who liked men. Just a regular
    old homosexual.
    Nowadays its all gender, with one flag--LBGTQ+. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
    --md

    I don't think it's all gender, otherwise there's wouldn't be the L and the G. They have just lumped all of the non-hetero classifications together. Makes them a much bigger group of people.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mark D.@21:1/5 to Bruce on Tue Sep 5 02:40:28 2023
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 7:36:35 PM CDT, "Bruce" <SavoyBG@aol.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:43:45 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 4:51:13 PM CDT, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 4:22:00 PM CDT, "Bill B" <bb...@optonline.net> wrote: >>>>
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:49:15 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:44:06 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote: >>>>>>> On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote: >>>>>>>> Two hour documentary

    Thanks. Set my recorder. CNN?
    Yes

    I meant it is unusual to see a documentary on CNN as far as I'm aware. >>>> The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's
    probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in
    the worst current manner.

    I don't consider the current matter of discussing mistreatment because of race
    to be bad at all, and I have heard that much of it is about his gayness. >>> Richard never had a gender problem. He was a man who liked men. Just a regular
    old homosexual.
    Nowadays its all gender, with one flag--LBGTQ+. Not that there's anything
    wrong with that.
    --md

    I don't think it's all gender, otherwise there's wouldn't be the L and the G. They have just lumped all of the non-hetero classifications together. Makes them a much bigger group of people.

    That's the point, they see thmselves as one group. Anyway, I caught the beginning of the LR doc and I think it's going to be better than I had
    thought.

    --md

    remove "xx" for email

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mark D.@21:1/5 to Bruce on Tue Sep 5 03:10:53 2023
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 9:48:26 PM CDT, "Bruce" <SavoyBG@aol.com> wrote:

    I know a couple of gay guys who think that the trans people are fucking weirdos that they don't want to be associated with. I

    How old are they?

    --md

    remove "xx" for email

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Mark D. on Mon Sep 4 19:48:26 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 10:40:36 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 7:36:35 PM CDT, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 7:43:45 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 4:51:13 PM CDT, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 4:22:00 PM CDT, "Bill B" <bb...@optonline.net> wrote: >>>>
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:49:15 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote: >>>>>> On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:44:06 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote: >>>>>>> On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote: >>>>>>>> Two hour documentary

    Thanks. Set my recorder. CNN?
    Yes

    I meant it is unusual to see a documentary on CNN as far as I'm aware. >>>> The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's
    probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in
    the worst current manner.

    I don't consider the current matter of discussing mistreatment because of race
    to be bad at all, and I have heard that much of it is about his gayness. >>> Richard never had a gender problem. He was a man who liked men. Just a regular
    old homosexual.
    Nowadays its all gender, with one flag--LBGTQ+. Not that there's anything >> wrong with that.
    --md

    I don't think it's all gender, otherwise there's wouldn't be the L and the G.
    They have just lumped all of the non-hetero classifications together. Makes
    them a much bigger group of people.

    That's the point, they see themselves as one group.

    I don't think so. I know a couple of gay guys who think that the trans people are fucking weirdos that they don't want to be associated with. I think it's more like somebody decided to try and combine all these groups together because they thought they
    could build a bigger voice if they could make it seem like every non hetero was on board with them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Mark D. on Mon Sep 4 20:39:26 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 11:11:01 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
    On Sep 4, 2023 at 9:48:26 PM CDT, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:

    I know a couple of gay guys who think that the trans people are fucking weirdos that they don't want to be associated with. I
    How old are they?

    65 and 76 I think. But there's young gay guys who feel the same way.

    https://victoryinstitute.org/a-look-at-transphobia-within-the-lgbtq-community/

    Note: This blog contains language and terms that may have changed in meaning over time, as well as some now considered slurs; they are used in their historical context in this blog.

    To fully serve the LGBTQ community and make America truly representative, we need to start by examining the prejudices within our community. Both political organizing and the LGBTQ community began with people who today may identify as transgender.
    However, trans women and men are often neglected by those who set political priorities of our community, if not treated with outright hostility and prejudice. This blog will focus on historical and ongoing prejudice towards transgender men and women by
    cisgender gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals.

    Attitudes towards transgender folks from both queer and cishet1 people are reflected in the lack of transgender elected officials. According to the Out for America Report that Victory Institute published in June, an LGBTQ elected official in the US today
    is most likely to be a white gay male. Almost 80 percent of out officials are white, 57 percent are gay, and 59 percent are male. Transgender men and women are thus severely underrepresented, with one trans woman in a state legislature, Danica Roem, and
    eight more in local positions, totaling 1.6 percent of all LGBTQ elected officials. Additionally, Roem and others in this count, such as Minneapolis city councilmembers Andrea Jenkins and Phillipe Cunningham, were elected just last year.

    In 1969, the year of the Stonewall Uprising, hardly anyone knew or identified with the term transgender. However, individuals who would come to identify as trans were already living their lives as their authentic selves, such as Christine Jorgensen, who
    became famous in the early 1950s for her reassignment surgery. Gay liberation activists such as Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera referred to themselves as gay, among a variety of other terms, indicating a fluidity and lack of focus on labels.

    It is evident that the lines between the different identities today known as LGBTQ were blurred and not fixed. Pinpointing discrimination in the past between the groups would seem to be difficult, but in reality, Rivera and Johnson themselves remarked
    about how they felt they did not fit into the then-newly emerging gay rights movement. They felt that, as drag queens and transvestites, they were being ignored by a movement they helped get started. In 1973, Rivera was scorned, booed, and hissed at when
    she attempted to speak at that year’s liberation march, as the lesbian women who had the stage at the time did not want to allow a drag queen to speak.

    Another perspective, from Miss Major Griffin-Gracy, prominent transgender activist and Stonewall veteran, further describes the mainstream gay rights movement as one that shuts out transgender folks and people of color. She stated in an interview with
    Jessica Stern that, “I feel like we’ve been pushed to the outside and then prevented from looking in. It’s the stares, the noninclusion over decision-making, exclusion from events that would build this movement. I think if they could eradicate us,
    they would.”

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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 07:50:16 2023
    On 9/5/2023 7:34 AM, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:

    The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's >> probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in >> the worst current manner.

    Twenty minutes was enough for me.

    I have no problem with members of the LBGTQ community being proud of their sexuality, but I do wish the lifestyle wasn't constantly being shoved in my face. Overtly over the top transsexuals reading to little kids in a library or even some of the drug
    commercials make me cringe. If I hear "Hi, I'm Orlando" one more time. I might throw something through my TV screen, if I haven't already done that while Jonathan Lawson explains the three "Ps" of life insurance for the zillionth time.

    I resent being made to feel like I was a deviant because I'm straight.
    -----------
    Okay, please tell me that's an exaggeration. Otherwise you sound like
    one of these jerks who claims "reverse racism is a bigger problem than
    racism."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Mark D. on Tue Sep 5 04:34:45 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:

    The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in the worst current manner.

    Twenty minutes was enough for me.

    I have no problem with members of the LBGTQ community being proud of their sexuality, but I do wish the lifestyle wasn't constantly being shoved in my face. Overtly over the top transsexuals reading to little kids in a library or even some of the drug
    commercials make me cringe. If I hear "Hi, I'm Orlando" one more time. I might throw something through my TV screen, if I haven't already done that while Jonathan Lawson explains the three "Ps" of life insurance for the zillionth time.

    I resent being made to feel like I was a deviant because I'm straight.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to Bruce on Tue Sep 5 09:08:07 2023
    On 9/4/2023 4:23 PM, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary
    ----------
    I watched and enjoyed the first hour, but then I fell asleep.
    I doubt Esquerita actually taught LR to play the piano.
    I was glad to see the acknowledgment of Billy Wright. Most viewers
    wouldn't know who he was.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 07:10:06 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 9:29:25 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:

    I am what I say I am. If you want to put a label on it, feel free.

    Okay.....how is transphobic?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to DianeE on Tue Sep 5 06:29:23 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 7:50:20 AM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
    On 9/5/2023 7:34 AM, Bill B wrote:


    I have no problem with members of the LBGTQ community being proud of their sexuality, but I do wish the lifestyle wasn't constantly being shoved in my face. Overtly over the top transsexuals reading to little kids in a library or even some of the
    drug commercials make me cringe. If I hear "Hi, I'm Orlando" one more time. I might throw something through my TV screen, if I haven't already done that while Jonathan Lawson explains the three "Ps" of life insurance for the zillionth time.

    I resent being made to feel like I was a deviant because I'm straight.
    -----------
    Okay, please tell me that's an exaggeration. Otherwise you sound like
    one of these jerks who claims "reverse racism is a bigger problem than racism."

    The only exaggeration is I wouldn't throw something through my TV screen. I am what I say I am. If you want to put a label on it, feel free.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 07:18:10 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 7:34:47 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:

    I resent being made to feel like I was a deviant because I'm straight.

    That should give you a small idea how they feel, made to feel like a pariah every day of their lives.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 07:16:36 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 7:34:47 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:

    The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's
    probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in
    the worst current manner.
    Twenty minutes was enough for me.

    I have no problem with members of the LBGTQ community being proud of their sexuality, but I do wish the lifestyle wasn't constantly being shoved in my face. Overtly over the top transsexuals reading to little kids in a library or even some of the drug
    commercials make me cringe. If I hear "Hi, I'm Orlando" one more time. I might throw something through my TV screen, if I haven't already done that while Jonathan Lawson explains the three "Ps" of life insurance for the zillionth time.

    I thought you were recording it? That way you don't have to watch those commercials.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 07:25:31 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 9:29:25 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:

    I am what I say I am.

    Interesting that you chose a phrase that is the title of a gay anthem to say the same thing that these folks say about themselves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zreTvtpTeoU

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Bruce on Tue Sep 5 07:39:38 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:10:09 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 9:29:25 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:

    I am what I say I am. If you want to put a label on it, feel free.
    Okay.....how is transphobic?

    Definition:
    having a dislike of publicly transgender people.

    It's close. If you said aggressively public and eliminated parades and shows you'd be spot on.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 07:45:24 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:39:39 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:10:09 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 9:29:25 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:

    I am what I say I am. If you want to put a label on it, feel free.
    Okay.....how is transphobic?
    Definition:
    having a dislike of publicly transgender people.

    It's close. If you said aggressively public and eliminated parades and shows you'd be spot on.

    I see other definitions.

    irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against transgender people

    having or showing a dislike of or strong prejudice against transgender people.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 07:50:25 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:39:39 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:10:09 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 9:29:25 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:

    I am what I say I am. If you want to put a label on it, feel free.
    Okay.....how is transphobic?
    Definition:
    having a dislike of publicly transgender people.

    It's close. If you said aggressively public and eliminated parades and shows you'd be spot on.

    Hey, I'm a little weirded out when I see that shit too, but nowhere near to the point where I feel like

    "I resent being made to feel like I was a deviant because I'm straight."

    But I don't feel weirded out at all when I see a trans man. I think it's the same reason why I am weirded out a little by gay men, but not at all by lesbians.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Bruce on Tue Sep 5 08:23:28 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:50:27 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

    But I don't feel weirded out at all when I see a trans man. I think it's the same reason why I am weirded out a little by gay men, but not at all by lesbians.

    I once had a trans female impersonator sit on my lap. No problem.

    How would you feel about Caitlin Jenner sitting on your lap?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 08:40:02 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 11:23:30 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:50:27 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

    But I don't feel weirded out at all when I see a trans man. I think it's the same reason why I am weirded out a little by gay men, but not at all by lesbians.

    I once had a trans female impersonator sit on my lap. No problem.

    Bachelor Party?

    By the way, trans and female impersonator are mutually exclusive. Trans means they actually have had some surgery and/or take hormones and live as the opposite gender that they were born with. Female impersonator is no more than Milton Berle, Flip Wilson,
    or the 2 guys (Curtis, Lemon) in "Some Like It Hot."

    Was your a man dressed as a woman, or a woman who used to be a man?

    How would you feel about Caitlin Jenner sitting on your lap?

    Probably not as weird as I would if you sat on my lap.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Bruce on Tue Sep 5 08:52:01 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 11:40:04 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 11:23:30 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:50:27 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

    But I don't feel weirded out at all when I see a trans man. I think it's the same reason why I am weirded out a little by gay men, but not at all by lesbians.

    I once had a trans female impersonator sit on my lap. No problem.
    Bachelor Party?

    By the way, trans and female impersonator are mutually exclusive. Trans means they actually have had some surgery and/or take hormones and live as the opposite gender that they were born with. Female impersonator is no more than Milton Berle, Flip
    Wilson, or the 2 guys (Curtis, Lemon) in "Some Like It Hot."

    Was yours a man dressed as a woman, or a woman who used to be a man?

    A female impersonator could be taking hormones or have had some surgery. My experience was during a casino show and it was a man impersonating a female star. Can't remember which one.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 08:58:23 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 11:52:03 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:

    A female impersonator could be taking hormones or have had some surgery.

    Then they would be "transitioning" and eventually not be a female impersonator anymore.

    My experience was during a casino show and it was a man impersonating a female star. Can't remember which one.

    They like to do Streisand. Could be a regular old gay guy who is a female impersonator, or like Berle or Wilson, just a hetero guy who impersonates a woman for part of their job.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dean F.@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 5 09:08:42 2023
    A good friend of mine has been a therapist for 20+ years. She has worked with hundreds of survivors of childhood sexual abuse. In most cases, the abuser was a relative or family friend. In other cases, it was a member of the clergy. In not a single case,
    however, was the abuser transgender or a drag queen. So these right-wing liars can stick that "groomer" garbage where the sun doesn't shine--and I don't mean their hearts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dean F.@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 09:13:02 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 7:34:47 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:

    I resent being made to feel like I was a deviant because I'm straight.

    Only you can make yourself feel that way. Stop projecting your insecurities onto others.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Steve Mc@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 5 09:17:36 2023
    The thing that struck me in the documentary was on some building ,
    engraved in stone, was ' Colored Waiting Room'.

    I guess that was ingrained in their consciousness.

    --
    Steve Mc

    DNA to SBC to respond

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Dean F. on Tue Sep 5 11:15:24 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 12:13:03 PM UTC-4, Dean F. wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 7:34:47 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:

    I resent being made to feel like I was a deviant because I'm straight.
    Only you can make yourself feel that way. Stop projecting your insecurities onto others.

    It was a metaphor for excessive LGBTQ propaganda. I have no insecurities in that area.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Sep 5 18:34:28 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 7:34:47 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:

    The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's
    probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in
    the worst current manner.

    Twenty minutes was enough for me.

    I have no problem with members of the LBGTQ community being proud of their sexuality, but I do wish the lifestyle wasn't constantly being shoved in my face.

    I did not get ANY of this feeling that you did. I am 2/3 through with the show and it's really good....better than I was expecting. I had forgotten about his travels in the late 40s and early 50s before he had ever recorded. He was with 2 or 3 different
    traveling shows and even appeared on stage as a woman at times. I wish I could hear what he sounded like doing "Caldonia" in the late 40s. I don't think he ever recorded the song. It's not on Youtube. I would think that it was probably like James Brown's
    version.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCRcS9rnDzM

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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 5 19:37:23 2023
    Some people were not happy when Richard denounced his homosexuality in the 1970s and went around saying that God wanted Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From RWC@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 5 22:57:16 2023
    On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 04:34:45 -0700 (PDT), Bill B <bbug2@optonline.net>
    wrote:

    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20?PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:

    The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's >> probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in >> the worst current manner.

    Twenty minutes was enough for me.

    I have no problem with members of the LBGTQ community being proud of their sexuality.

    I'm uncomfortable with the T and Q component.

    Currently I'm happy to believe that LBG were simply born that way
    and have naturally existed forever - even if being LG is ultimately dysfunctional as regards reproduction.

    I resent being made to feel like I was a deviant because I'm straight.

    For someone confidently hetero, an exaggeration surely.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Bruce on Thu Sep 7 05:48:33 2023
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 9:34:30 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 7:34:47 AM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 5:43:20 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:

    The way they've been advertising it and even doing interviews about it, it's
    probably going to emphasize LR's mistreatment because of race and gender, in
    the worst current manner.

    Twenty minutes was enough for me.

    I have no problem with members of the LBGTQ community being proud of their sexuality, but I do wish the lifestyle wasn't constantly being shoved in my face.

    I did not get ANY of this feeling that you did. I am 2/3 through with the show and it's really good....better than I was expecting. I had forgotten about his travels in the late 40s and early 50s before he had ever recorded. He was with 2 or 3
    different traveling shows and even appeared on stage as a woman at times.

    I just watched the rest of it and agree that it was really good.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bob Roman@21:1/5 to Bruce on Fri Sep 8 20:18:49 2023
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary

    I enjoyed the film.

    I agree with Dean that the filmmaker's agenda felt heavy handed at times. I don't have a problem with an agenda -- as Bruce said, everyone has an agenda -- but sometimes an agenda can get in the way of nuance.

    You all have been talking about whether gay and trans fit naturally under one umbrella. That's a discussion worth having. But the filmmaker, and the selected talking heads, all seemed to assume they do. And that umbrella is the term "queer." But they
    also seem to argue that queer is primarily just a synonym for subversive, and if you take it that broad you lose a lot of specificity.

    One moment that I enjoyed, because it was different from anything else, was the rare moment of disagreement among the talking heads. One asserted that Richard got away with being a black idol for teenagers because his effeminacy made him feel less
    threatening. A macho Richard, potentially "coming for the white women" would be more of a threat. That assertion was followed up immediately by Billy Vera calling it is counterintuitive to believe that '50s middle America supported someone BECAUSE they
    were gay. It is possible to see the grain of truth in both arguments, and I wish there had been more give and take like that.

    I also agree with Diane that it was good to see the film discuss the influence on Richard of people like Billy Wright and Esquerita. I wish there had been more analysis of Richard's musical biography. I wish they had discussed Johnny Otis's failed
    attempts to make Richard a star, in between the early RCA recordings and the star-making Specialty recordings. I wish there had been discussion of Richard's attempts to fit in as a '60s soul singer on Vee Jay and Okeh ("I Don't Know What You've Got But
    It's Got Me" is one of the best recordings of his career, and his "Don't Deceive Me" is the definitive version of that song.) I wish the film discussed Richard's early '70s Reprise recordings, as well as his late '80s comeback (mostly single tracks on
    multi-artist concept albums) when he seemed to be trying hardest to balance the competing impulses on his music.

    And as much as I agree with the bias that wild Richard is more fun than buttoned-down Richard, I think they were overly dismissive of Richard's gospel recordings. There are some gems in there.

    But, like I said up top, I did enjoy the film.

    --
    BR

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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bob Roman on Fri Sep 8 20:39:27 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 11:18:51 PM UTC-4, Bob Roman wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary
    I enjoyed the film.

    One moment that I enjoyed, because it was different from anything else, was the rare moment of disagreement among the talking heads. One asserted that Richard got away with being a black idol for teenagers because his effeminacy made him feel less
    threatening. A macho Richard, potentially "coming for the white women" would be more of a threat. That assertion was followed up immediately by Billy Vera calling it is counterintuitive to believe that '50s middle America supported someone BECAUSE they
    were gay. It is possible to see the grain of truth in both arguments, and I wish there had been more give and take like that.

    I don't think any of the public knew or even suspected that Richard was gay, and nobody I know who was around at that time thought that he was at all effeminate. You have to remember, hardly anyone ever saw him just talking back then. You heard his
    records, none of which (in the 50s) sound the least bit effeminate. Or maybe you saw him lip synching one of his hits in a movie. It wasn't like he was on talk shows like he was decades later.

    I also agree with Diane that it was good to see the film discuss the influence on Richard of people like Billy Wright and Esquerita. I wish there had been more analysis of Richard's musical biography. I wish they had discussed Johnny Otis's failed
    attempts to make Richard a star, in between the early RCA recordings and the star-making Specialty recordings.

    Yes, the Peacock stuff was barely even mentioned. I think all they had was a poster or something of the Tempo Toppers and maybe a mention of trying him as part of a vocal group.

    I wish there had been discussion of Richard's attempts to fit in as a '60s soul singer on Vee Jay and Okeh ("I Don't Know What You've Got But It's Got Me" is one of the best recordings of his career,

    I definitely completely disagree on the merits of "I Don't Know What You Got." Yes, it was his only real soul hit, but it does not even rank among my 50 favorites by him.

    LITTLE RICHARD
    1. Long Tall Sally
    2. Tutti-Frutti
    3. Slippin' And Slidin'
    4. Good Golly, Miss Molly
    5. Rip It Up
    6. Keep A-Knockin'
    7. Ain't Nothin' Happenin'
    8. I'm In Love Again
    9. I Brought It All On Myself
    10. Ready Teddy
    11. True Fine Mama
    12. Miss Ann
    13. Send Me Some Lovin'
    14. Lucille
    15. Baby
    16. The Girl Can't Help It
    17. Every Hour
    18. Get Rich Quick
    19. Hey Hey Hey Hey
    20. Taxi Blues
    21. Kansas City
    22. Rice, Red Beans And Turnip Greens
    23. Ooh! My Soul
    24. Early One Morning
    25. Little Richard's Boogie
    26. Jenny, Jenny
    27. I'll Never Let You Go
    28. Heeby-Jeebies
    29. Every Night About This Time
    30. Fool At The Wheel
    31. Bama Lama Bama Loo
    32. Ain't That Good News
    33. All Night Long
    34. By The Light of The Silvery Moon
    35. I Got It
    36. She's My Star
    37. Why Did You Leave Me?
    38. Can't Believe You Wanna Leave
    39. She's Got It
    40. All Around The World
    41. She Knows How to Rock
    42. Directly from My Heart
    43. Baby Face
    44. Oh Why
    45. Freedom Blues
    46. Lonesome And Blue
    47. Always
    48. I'm Just A Lonely Guy
    49. I Love My Baby
    50. Valley of Tears

    and his "Don't Deceive Me" is the definitive version of that song.)

    Again, I vehemently disagree. I don't even keep an MP3 of that. Chuck Willis' original hit version is far better IMO.

    I wish the film discussed Richard's early '70s Reprise recordings, as well as his late '80s comeback (mostly single tracks on multi-artist concept albums) when he seemed to be trying hardest to balance the competing impulses on his music.

    Yes, they made it seem as though all he did after the 50s was keep singing his old hits in live appearances until he went all Gospel for awhile. Watching the movie you'd think that he never recorded after the 50s except for remakes of the older hits. "
    Freedom Blues" is in my top 50, and I liked a couple of others on Reprise too, like "Somebody Saw You."

    And as much as I agree with the bias that wild Richard is more fun than buttoned-down Richard, I think they were overly dismissive of Richard's gospel recordings. There are some gems in there.

    I can't think of any particular one of his Gospel recordings that I've heard that were better than just okay. What do you think are some of the best ones?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bob Roman@21:1/5 to Bruce on Sat Sep 9 05:47:33 2023
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 11:39:29 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

    What do you think are some of the best ones?

    I think "It's Real" is really good. It starts with mellow soulfulness and builds in intensity as it goes. Even the testifying in the middle sounds organic. It's not a "Little Richard" performance, but it is Richard Penniman showing himself to be a very
    talented singer.

    I don't care for the choir behind him on "Joy Joy Joy," but I think Richard's performance on that single is very good.

    "Every Time I Feel the Spirit" sounds cheaply recorded, and the arrangement is muddy, but I think he is good on it.

    I like his version of "Crying In the Chapel" as much as Elvis's. It's not as good as Sonny Til, but it's certainly better than B.J. Thomas.

    --
    BR

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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to Bob Roman on Sat Sep 9 09:32:59 2023
    On 9/9/2023 8:47 AM, Bob Roman wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 11:39:29 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

    What do you think are some of the best ones?

    I think "It's Real" is really good. It starts with mellow soulfulness and builds in intensity as it goes. Even the testifying in the middle sounds organic. It's not a "Little Richard" performance, but it is Richard Penniman showing himself to be a very
    talented singer.

    I don't care for the choir behind him on "Joy Joy Joy," but I think Richard's performance on that single is very good.

    "Every Time I Feel the Spirit" sounds cheaply recorded, and the arrangement is muddy, but I think he is good on it.

    I like his version of "Crying In the Chapel" as much as Elvis's. It's not as good as Sonny Til, but it's certainly better than B.J. Thomas.
    -----------
    I think his version of "Milky White Way" is pretty good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6ynkUJqntg

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to Bob Roman on Sat Sep 9 09:48:18 2023
    On 9/8/2023 11:18 PM, Bob Roman wrote:


    You all have been talking about whether gay and trans fit naturally under one umbrella. That's a discussion worth having. But the filmmaker, and the selected talking heads, all seemed to assume they do. And that umbrella is the term "queer." But they
    also seem to argue that queer is primarily just a synonym for subversive, and if you take it that broad you lose a lot of specificity.

    One moment that I enjoyed, because it was different from anything else, was the rare moment of disagreement among the talking heads. One asserted that Richard got away with being a black idol for teenagers because his effeminacy made him feel less
    threatening. A macho Richard, potentially "coming for the white women" would be more of a threat. That assertion was followed up immediately by Billy Vera calling it is counterintuitive to believe that '50s middle America supported someone BECAUSE they
    were gay. It is possible to see the grain of truth in both arguments, and I wish there had been more give and take like that.
    ------------
    Richard *himself* wasn't perceived as a threat, but his *music*
    certainly was. Almost the reverse of Chuck Berry.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to Bob Roman on Sat Sep 9 09:36:44 2023
    On 9/8/2023 11:18 PM, Bob Roman wrote:
    On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
    Two hour documentary

    I enjoyed the film.

    I agree with Dean that the filmmaker's agenda felt heavy handed at times. I don't have a problem with an agenda -- as Bruce said, everyone has an agenda -- but sometimes an agenda can get in the way of nuance.

    You all have been talking about whether gay and trans fit naturally under one umbrella. That's a discussion worth having. But the filmmaker, and the selected talking heads, all seemed to assume they do. And that umbrella is the term "queer." But they
    also seem to argue that queer is primarily just a synonym for subversive, and if you take it that broad you lose a lot of specificity.

    One moment that I enjoyed, because it was different from anything else, was the rare moment of disagreement among the talking heads. One asserted that Richard got away with being a black idol for teenagers because his effeminacy made him feel less
    threatening. A macho Richard, potentially "coming for the white women" would be more of a threat. That assertion was followed up immediately by Billy Vera calling it is counterintuitive to believe that '50s middle America supported someone BECAUSE they
    were gay. It is possible to see the grain of truth in both arguments, and I wish there had been more give and take like that.
    ------------
    It's pretty rare for *any* documentary to feature talking heads
    disagreeing with each other, though, isn't it?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bob Roman@21:1/5 to DianeE on Sat Sep 9 07:08:32 2023
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:36:46 AM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:

    It's pretty rare for *any* documentary to feature talking heads
    disagreeing with each other, though, isn't it?

    Ken Burns's "Civil War" did a good job with that. You can't get much farther apart than Shelby Foote romanticizing the Confederacy and Barbara Fields laying bare its ugliness (and the fact that it never really went away).

    --
    BR

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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 9 09:35:32 2023
    One thing I liked about the movie is that it showed him using his piano
    skills, not just banging the box. Unlike, say, Amos Milburn or Jerry
    Lee Lewis, Richard didn't do a lot of piano work in his act. But there
    was a clip in the movie that showed him playing, and by George he could
    play.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bob Roman@21:1/5 to DianeE on Sat Sep 9 07:21:12 2023
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:33:02 AM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:

    I think his version of "Milky White Way" is pretty good.

    yes

    --
    BR

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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to DianeE on Sat Sep 9 08:18:26 2023
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:33:02 AM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
    On 9/9/2023 8:47 AM, Bob Roman wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 11:39:29 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

    What do you think are some of the best ones?

    I think "It's Real" is really good. It starts with mellow soulfulness and builds in intensity as it goes. Even the testifying in the middle sounds organic. It's not a "Little Richard" performance, but it is Richard Penniman showing himself to be a
    very talented singer.

    I don't care for the choir behind him on "Joy Joy Joy," but I think Richard's performance on that single is very good.

    "Every Time I Feel the Spirit" sounds cheaply recorded, and the arrangement is muddy, but I think he is good on it.

    I like his version of "Crying In the Chapel" as much as Elvis's. It's not as good as Sonny Til, but it's certainly better than B.J. Thomas.
    -----------
    I think his version of "Milky White Way" is pretty good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6ynkUJqntg

    Yes, at least the arrangement is not intrusive, and the background singers are all male, which helps.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bob Roman on Sat Sep 9 08:17:27 2023
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:47:35 AM UTC-4, Bob Roman wrote:
    On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 11:39:29 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

    What do you think are some of the best ones?
    I think "It's Real" is really good. It starts with mellow soulfulness and builds in intensity as it goes. Even the testifying in the middle sounds organic. It's not a "Little Richard" performance, but it is Richard Penniman showing himself to be a very
    talented singer.

    I think this shows off his singing talent well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg7qnrIWAS0

    As for "It's Real," the organ and choir kill it for me.

    I don't care for the choir behind him on "Joy Joy Joy," but I think Richard's performance on that single is very good.

    Same, but I can't find a gospel recording by him that even as good as his third rate 50s things.

    "Every Time I Feel the Spirit" sounds cheaply recorded, and the arrangement is muddy, but I think he is good on it.

    Can't take the loud organ and chorus.

    I like his version of "Crying In the Chapel" as much as Elvis's. It's not as good as Sonny Til, but it's certainly better than B.J. Thomas.

    Just the chorus opening and the violins stop it from being as good as the Elvis version, which itself is essentially a non entity to me. I've never in my life played it on my own accord. I don't know why you'd bring up BJT, but I just played it, and its
    minimalist arrangement makes it better to me than the LR version.

    The original version is also better than the LR version for me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM1PzEWnZZ0

    But no other version is even close to the Orioles for me. I guess the Elvis is number 2 by default, but a long way back.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 10 13:29:21 2023
    Richard sang the theme song from the TV Show "The Magic School Bus."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egmmYxXhScQ

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to Bruce on Sun Sep 10 19:01:49 2023
    On 9/10/2023 4:29 PM, Bruce wrote:
    Richard sang the theme song from the TV Show "The Magic School Bus."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egmmYxXhScQ
    --------
    My daughter used to watch that show. Can't remember if I knew it was
    him or not. Not a very memorable theme song.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bob Roman@21:1/5 to DianeE on Sun Sep 10 16:16:28 2023
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:35:34 AM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
    One thing I liked about the movie is that it showed him using his piano skills, not just banging the box. Unlike, say, Amos Milburn or Jerry
    Lee Lewis, Richard didn't do a lot of piano work in his act. But there
    was a clip in the movie that showed him playing, and by George he could play.

    Richard playing piano (and singing backup) behind Joe Walsh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qECG_u4uTSA

    --
    BR

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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to Bob Roman on Sun Sep 10 19:23:28 2023
    On 9/10/2023 7:16 PM, Bob Roman wrote:
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 9:35:34 AM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
    One thing I liked about the movie is that it showed him using his piano
    skills, not just banging the box. Unlike, say, Amos Milburn or Jerry
    Lee Lewis, Richard didn't do a lot of piano work in his act. But there
    was a clip in the movie that showed him playing, and by George he could
    play.

    Richard playing piano (and singing backup) behind Joe Walsh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qECG_u4uTSA



    But that's exactly what I was talking about. He doesn't get a solo.

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