Knoxville Girl - Louvin Brothers
Ready Teddy - Little Richard
I'm Coming Home - Hide-A-Ways
Raw Deal - Junior Thompson
So Glad You're Mine - Elvis
Little Girl Of Mine - Cleftones
You're Gonna Treat Me Right - Jimmy Stayton
You're Undecided - Johnny Burnette Trio
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 18:46:15 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
wrote:
I'm Coming Home - Hide-A-WaysDecent enough uptempo flip to their beautiful version of the Kern
"Show Boat" ballad "Can't Help Loving That Girl Of MIne". I have this
as 1956 too but I see an awful lot of sources claiming it is from
1954. What's the up to date story on this one?
Raw Deal - Junior ThompsonAfter Carl,The Burnettes and Charlie Feathers I guess Junior here has
just about the next best rockabilly numbers of 1956---together on the
super Meteor label double sider "Raw Deal"/"Mama's Little Baby"
recorded in Memphis.
For starters I would hesitate in calling some items in your list as
pure rockabilly
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 3:29:32 AM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 18:46:15 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>=20
wrote:
I'm Coming Home - Hide-A-WaysDecent enough uptempo flip to their beautiful version of the Kern=20
"Show Boat" ballad "Can't Help Loving That Girl Of MIne". I have this=20
as 1956 too but I see an awful lot of sources claiming it is from=20
1954. What's the up to date story on this one?
In the 20th century It was usually shown as either 1955 or 1957 (Kreiter ha= >s 1955), but about 15-20 years ago we finally got some real evidence when y= >our Upper Darby buddy turned up a copy from a radio station with a date sta= >mp of Sep 1956 on the label.=20
Raw Deal - Junior ThompsonAfter Carl,The Burnettes and Charlie Feathers I guess Junior here has=20
just about the next best rockabilly numbers of 1956---together on the=20
super Meteor label double sider "Raw Deal"/"Mama's Little Baby"=20
recorded in Memphis.
I'm afraid that we part company drastically on this opinion. I prefer "Mama= >'s Little Baby" (an 8) and don't even think that much of "Raw Deal," which = >is only a 7. I have at least a dozen other acts as having better rockabilly=
releases in 1956. Here are the rockabilly items that I like better than ei=
ther side of the JT, with their positions on my 1956 list. We can argue lat= >er about whether or not some of these are rockabilly, but I don't see the J= >unior Thompson as all that great.
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:37:50 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
For starters I would hesitate in calling some items in your list as=20
pure rockabilly=20
We are just talking rockabilly, not "pure rockabilly," whatever that is. I = >don't see how Gene could not be rockabilly in 1956. There's no other instru= >ments than guitars, bass and drums. Not even piano or sax. And certainly no=
trumpet which you allow for Sonny Burgess while still categorizing him as =
rockabilly.=20
I can't think of anywhere that would not categorize Gene as being rockabill= >y.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 12:12:16 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:37:50 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
For starters I would hesitate in calling some items in your list as=20
pure rockabilly=20
We are just talking rockabilly, not "pure rockabilly," whatever that is. I = >don't see how Gene could not be rockabilly in 1956. There's no other instru= >ments than guitars, bass and drums. Not even piano or sax. And certainly no=
trumpet which you allow for Sonny Burgess while still categorizing him as =
rockabilly.=20
I can't think of anywhere that would not categorize Gene as being rockabill= >y.
You do now
On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 12:12:16 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:37:50 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
For starters I would hesitate in calling some items in your list as=20
pure rockabilly=20
We are just talking rockabilly, not "pure rockabilly," whatever that is. I =
don't see how Gene could not be rockabilly in 1956. There's no other instru=
ments than guitars, bass and drums. Not even piano or sax. And certainly no=
trumpet which you allow for Sonny Burgess while still categorizing him as =
rockabilly.=20
I can't think of anywhere that would not categorize Gene as being rockabill=
y.
You do now
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 3:35:55 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 12:12:16 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>=20I =3D=20
wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:37:50 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:=20
For starters I would hesitate in calling some items in your list as=3D= >20=20=20
pure rockabilly=3D20=20
We are just talking rockabilly, not "pure rockabilly," whatever that is.=
no=3D=20don't see how Gene could not be rockabilly in 1956. There's no other ins= >tru=3D=20
ments than guitars, bass and drums. Not even piano or sax. And certainly=
trumpet which you allow for Sonny Burgess while still categorizing him = >as =3D=20You do now
rockabilly.=3D20=20
=20
I can't think of anywhere that would not categorize Gene as being rockab= >ill=3D=20
y.=20
=20
The one genre argument that we had that I still can't believe is when you i= >nsisted that "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" was not country. A number one=
BB chart country song written by (at the time) country artists, and a slow= ballad that doesn't rock at all. I think you claimed that it was rock and =
roll rather than country.
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 3:35:55 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 12:12:16 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:37:50 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:You do now
For starters I would hesitate in calling some items in your list as=20
pure rockabilly=20
We are just talking rockabilly, not "pure rockabilly," whatever that is. I =
don't see how Gene could not be rockabilly in 1956. There's no other instru=
ments than guitars, bass and drums. Not even piano or sax. And certainly no=
trumpet which you allow for Sonny Burgess while still categorizing him as =
rockabilly.=20
I can't think of anywhere that would not categorize Gene as being rockabill=
y.
I meant aside from you.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 20:29:32 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 3:35:55 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 12:12:16 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>=2020=20
wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:37:50 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:=20 >> >
For starters I would hesitate in calling some items in your list as=3D=
I =3D=20pure rockabilly=3D20=20=20
We are just talking rockabilly, not "pure rockabilly," whatever that is.=
tru=3D=20don't see how Gene could not be rockabilly in 1956. There's no other ins=
no=3D=20ments than guitars, bass and drums. Not even piano or sax. And certainly=
as =3D=20trumpet which you allow for Sonny Burgess while still categorizing him =
ill=3D=20rockabilly.=3D20=20
=20
I can't think of anywhere that would not categorize Gene as being rockab=
y.=20You do now
=20
The one genre argument that we had that I still can't believe is when you i=
nsisted that "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" was not country. A number one=
BB chart country song written by (at the time) country artists, and a slow=
ballad that doesn't rock at all. I think you claimed that it was rock and =
roll rather than country.
Yes I rtemember that
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 3:35:55 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 12:12:16 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>=20I =3D=20
wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:37:50 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:=20
For starters I would hesitate in calling some items in your list as=3D= >20=20=20
pure rockabilly=3D20=20
We are just talking rockabilly, not "pure rockabilly," whatever that is.=
no=3D=20don't see how Gene could not be rockabilly in 1956. There's no other ins= >tru=3D=20
ments than guitars, bass and drums. Not even piano or sax. And certainly=
trumpet which you allow for Sonny Burgess while still categorizing him = >as =3D=20You do now
rockabilly.=3D20=20
=20
I can't think of anywhere that would not categorize Gene as being rockab= >ill=3D=20
y.=20
=20
The one genre argument that we had that I still can't believe is when you i= >nsisted that "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" was not country. A number one=
BB chart country song written by (at the time) country artists, and a slow= ballad that doesn't rock at all. I think you claimed that it was rock and =
roll rather than country.
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 1:39:49 AM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 20:29:32 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
wrote:=20
=20
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 3:35:55 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:Yes I rtemember that=20
On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 12:12:16 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>=3D20= >=2020=3D20=20
wrote:=20
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 2:37:50 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:= >=3D20=20
=20
For starters I would hesitate in calling some items in your list as= >=3D3D=3D=20
I =3D3D=3D20=20pure rockabilly=3D3D20=3D20=20=3D20=20
We are just talking rockabilly, not "pure rockabilly," whatever that = >is.=3D=20
tru=3D3D=3D20=20don't see how Gene could not be rockabilly in 1956. There's no other = >ins=3D=20
no=3D3D=3D20=20ments than guitars, bass and drums. Not even piano or sax. And certai= >nly=3D=20
as =3D3D=3D20=20trumpet which you allow for Sonny Burgess while still categorizing h= >im =3D=20
ill=3D3D=3D20=20rockabilly.=3D3D20=3D20=20
=3D20=20
I can't think of anywhere that would not categorize Gene as being roc= >kab=3D=20
=20y.=3D20=20You do now=20
=3D20=20
The one genre argument that we had that I still can't believe is when yo= >u i=3D=20
nsisted that "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" was not country. A number = >one=3D=20
BB chart country song written by (at the time) country artists, and a s= >low=3D=20
ballad that doesn't rock at all. I think you claimed that it was rock a= >nd =3D=20
roll rather than country.=20
=20
If "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" was rock and roll as you claimed, would= >n't it have made the pop charts once "Heartbreak Hotel" broke out? It was s= >till #1 on the country chart for the first 2 or 3 weeks of "HH" making the = >pop charts. But it never charted pop even though it was on the country char= >ts until like the first week of July 1956, when Elvis by then had had sever= >al big pop chart hits.
It should have gotten its chance in the Country Battle.
The same way that these other Billboard #1 1950's country singles did?
Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis Presley
I Want YOu,I Need You,I Love You - Elvis Presley
Hound Dog /Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley
All Shook Up - ,Elvis Presley
Teddy Bear -Elvis Presley
Jailhouse Rock - Elvis Presley
Whole Lot Of Shakin' Going On - Jerry Lee Lewis
Great Balls Of Fire - Jerry Lee Lewis
Bye Bye Love - The Everly Brothers
Wake Up Little Susie - The Everly Brothers
On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 07:42:25 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
wrote:
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 9:18:36 AM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
The same way that these other Billboard #1 1950's country singles did?
Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis Presley
I Want YOu,I Need You,I Love You - Elvis Presley
Hound Dog /Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley
All Shook Up - ,Elvis Presley
Teddy Bear -Elvis Presley
Jailhouse Rock - Elvis Presley
Whole Lot Of Shakin' Going On - Jerry Lee Lewis
Great Balls Of Fire - Jerry Lee Lewis
Bye Bye Love - The Everly Brothers
Wake Up Little Susie - The Everly Brothers
They were all top 5 pop chart hits.????
What does that have to do with what I said?
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 9:18:36 AM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
The same way that these other Billboard #1 1950's country singles did?
Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis Presley
I Want YOu,I Need You,I Love You - Elvis Presley
Hound Dog /Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley
All Shook Up - ,Elvis Presley
Teddy Bear -Elvis Presley
Jailhouse Rock - Elvis Presley
Whole Lot Of Shakin' Going On - Jerry Lee Lewis
Great Balls Of Fire - Jerry Lee Lewis
Bye Bye Love - The Everly Brothers
Wake Up Little Susie - The Everly Brothers
They were all top 5 pop chart hits.
Huh? You're saying that who's playing it on the radio and who the audience is
MATTERS when assigning a recording's genre?
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 11:31:26 AM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 07:42:25 -0800 (PST), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
wrote:
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 9:18:36 AM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:????
The same way that these other Billboard #1 1950's country singles did? >>>>
Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis Presley
I Want YOu,I Need You,I Love You - Elvis Presley
Hound Dog /Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley
All Shook Up - ,Elvis Presley
Teddy Bear -Elvis Presley
Jailhouse Rock - Elvis Presley
Whole Lot Of Shakin' Going On - Jerry Lee Lewis
Great Balls Of Fire - Jerry Lee Lewis
Bye Bye Love - The Everly Brothers
Wake Up Little Susie - The Everly Brothers
They were all top 5 pop chart hits.
What does that have to do with what I said?
Because those items proved to be rock and roll by being huge pop chart hits that were all popular with the mainstream audiences and were played on all the
rock and roll radio shows. Do you think Freed ever played "I Forgot To Remember To Forget?"
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 10:52:07 PM UTC-5, Mark D. wrote:
Huh? You're saying that who's playing it on the radio and who the audience is
MATTERS when assigning a recording's genre?
Of course. The Race or R&B or Soul or Black chart was never about what the record sounded like, it was ALWAYS about which records were popular in the black community. The "Pop" chart has nothing to do with genres either. It's just which songs are popular with the mainstream listeners.
There were loads of blues records that were hits on the R&B chart. But blues is a genre that predated R&B by several decades. So it can't be a sub genre of
R&B since it was around long before R&B. R&B is not really a genre anyway. It's a name for music that is popular in the black community, replacing the term "Race Music." By the late 40s Rock and Roll was becoming a popular genre in the black community, and by the early 50s it was THE MOST popular genre in the black community. At some point, I think in the 80s, Billboard started calling it "The Black Chart," which is wat it was all along.
There have always been hits in the black community that didn't fit into what thought of as rhythm and blues, or rock and roll, or soul, or whatever the current name of the chart was. There were jazz records that were R&B hits, Gospel records that were R&B hits, even pop records that were R&B hits, like "Cry" by Johnnie Ray, and several Roy Hamilton records in 1954-55.
What's your opinion. Is "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" country?
On Jan 13, 2023 at 10:11:39 PM CST, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
What's your opinion. Is "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" country?
I have no basis, given all that's been said, for having an opinion on that last question. Since I don't have to store many thousands of 45s, I have very little practical use for specifying by genres, and so mostly I don't think about the borderline cases.
records" and shove it in there alongside "Milk Cow Bues," "Hound Dog," "Love Me Tender" (if I bothered to keep a copy), "Old Shep," "Now or Never," and all
the rest of the genre-blurring records he made.
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 2:21:37 PM UTC-5, Mark D. wrote:
On Jan 13, 2023 at 10:11:39 PM CST, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
What's your opinion. Is "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" country?
I have no basis, given all that's been said, for having an opinion on that >> last question. Since I don't have to store many thousands of 45s, I have very
little practical use for specifying by genres, and so mostly I don't think >> about the borderline cases.
I don't think anybody files by genre and breaks up records by the same artist into separate genres.
Elvis, of course, is a rather special case and forced to file it somewhere, I'd probably invent a new genre called "Elvis
records" and shove it in there alongside "Milk Cow Bues," "Hound Dog," "Love >> Me Tender" (if I bothered to keep a copy), "Old Shep," "Now or Never," and all
the rest of the genre-blurring records he made.
So you don't fill out the tags on your MP3s and list a genre for each one?
Simple question. Does "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" fit better as country or rock and roll?
I know, you can't really say, because you "don't believe there are any meaningful lines between genres, just blurry gray areas"
On Jan 14, 2023 at 1:57:52 PM CST, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 2:21:37 PM UTC-5, Mark D. wrote:
On Jan 13, 2023 at 10:11:39 PM CST, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
What's your opinion. Is "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" country?
I have no basis, given all that's been said, for having an opinion on that >> last question. Since I don't have to store many thousands of 45s, I have very
little practical use for specifying by genres, and so mostly I don't think >> about the borderline cases.
I don't think anybody files by genre and breaks up records by the same artist
into separate genres.
Elvis, of course, is a rather special case and forced to file it somewhere, I'd probably invent a new genre called "Elvis
records" and shove it in there alongside "Milk Cow Bues," "Hound Dog," "Love
Me Tender" (if I bothered to keep a copy), "Old Shep," "Now or Never," and all
the rest of the genre-blurring records he made.
So you don't fill out the tags on your MP3s and list a genre for each one?No. I don't see any reason to since I usually listen to a mix of periods and artists, and often randomized, rather than a particular genre.
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
I know, you can't really say, because you "don't believe there are any
meaningful lines between genres, just blurry gray areas"
You gotta wonder why there is even such a word as "genre," given that "there are no meaningful lines between genres, just blurry gray areas."
I know you're not stupid, Bruce, but you sure respond stupidly when you're losing an argument.
Genres exist, to a large extent, because of marketing considerations. The record companies use them for convenience; record stores use them to organize
their stock (and collectors their purchases);
Many of the best artists, however, since being creatively different--messing up the
genre lines, in other words-- is often what the best artists want to do,
Think Ray Charles doing country songs, or anything by the Beatles after 1965,
I could say a lot more on this subject, but you're not really interested in my
point of view anyway,
I know you're not stupid, Bruce, but you sure respond stupidly when you're losing an argument. Or else you're too busy defending your original position to actually hear what the other person is saying. I'll try once more.
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