In his biography of John Lennon, Albert Goldman wrote that the paramedics who received John's body were appalled at the wretched condition he was in.

The Times of London gave Yoko the opportunity to respond. She stated:

"Sure, John dieted -- we never hid that. He always hated how fat he thought he looked in pictures with the Beatles. He was concerned about keeping slim and looking good. He did it the way everyone does. Exercise. Plenty of long walks. Not eating
sweets, though he loved them. Not eating pork or meat in general. His diet was mostly fish, and somewhere between macrobiotic and vegetarian.

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Notice Yoko's change of subject. Goldman says that the doctors who tried to save Lennon were appalled at his bad health. Yoko's response is, "Sure, John dieted."

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On 2024-04-04, Norbert <nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote:

Notice Yoko's change of subject. Goldman says that the
doctors who tried to save Lennon were appalled at his
bad health. Yoko's response is, "Sure, John dieted."

Sounds like U.S. presidential material to me....

--
oldernow
xyz001 at nym.hush.com

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What is your point in bringing this up?

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My point? I had hoped to stir up discussion. Nothing more than that.

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Well, for starters, Goldman's statement has been taken out of context, as he also says in that paragraph on page 688 that 'the staff' thought it might have been better if they had waited for the ambulance. So the 'paramedics' statement about the '
condition' of John's body can be interpreted as cya...

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He really only looked "fat" (more like slightly overweight) around
1966, but he apparently considered himself fat long after that.

Takes your body a while to figure out what it wants to do when you're relatively young.

Plus some of the serious drugs he was doing in the late '60s can take
its toll on your weight, that's probably what slimmed him down by the
early '70s.

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I think that Mozart and John Lennon both fell prey to what Bob Dylan calls "Murder(s) Most Foul". This is considered to be the 'perfect murder', with the assassins walking away undetected.

In Mozart's case, he had been caused to consume tiny amounts of poison over a long period of time, administered without his knowledge by some family members, some 'friends' (of whom Salieri was one). In his case, I think his body was so weakened by these
secret attacks that he succumbed, following the fatal dose, probably given to him by Salieri...There was no autopsy, and his body was tossed into an unmarked grave. This was supposedly 'death by natural causes'.

In John Lennon's case, no matter how severely his health was ravaged by the drugs he consumed on his own, plus those administered to him without his knowledge or consent by those who wanted to, in effect, turn him into a mind-controlled zombie, he did
not succumb to the ill effects, and, so, the only alternative left to those who wanted him dead was to have him killed.

So, no matter what shape his body was in when he was killed, it could have been even worse...

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Pamela, where do you get this stuff on Mozart's death? I haven't looked into it much, I admit, but my understanding was that Mozart had always been of shaky health, that he had a weak immune system, and that there are numerous infections that could
adequately account for his demise.

Lennon's case is complicated, because Yoko really did want to be rid of him (as illustrated by the Bermuda incident and Sam Green's commentary), but there just isn't any connection between Yoko and MDC.

Lennon was a magnet nuts and LSD freaks. There's the famous footage in the Imagine film of the homeless guy who pursued JL, and May Pang describes other, similar encounters.

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On 19/04/2024 3:53 am, Norbert wrote:

Pamela, where do you get this stuff on Mozart's death?  I haven't looked into it much, I admit, but my understanding was that Mozart had always
been of shaky health, that he had a weak immune system, and that there
are numerous infections that could adequately account for his demise. Lennon's case is complicated, because Yoko really did want to be rid of
him (as illustrated by the Bermuda incident and Sam Green's commentary),
but there just isn't any connection between Yoko and MDC.

Lennon was a magnet nuts and LSD freaks.  There's the famous footage in
the Imagine film of the homeless guy who pursued JL, and May Pang
describes other, similar encounters.

"Lennon was a magnet for nuts..."

That's for sure ;- )

geoff

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What was it that so fascinated nuts with John Lennon? Were the nuts acid casualties who perceived a kindred (albeit more famous) spirit in JL? Was it that Lennon's psychedelic lyrics were so murky that these dope fiends were able to (so they thought)
detect messages to themselves?

Goldman wrote that it was the November, 1980 Esquire magazine article about Lennon that set MDC off, convincing him that Lennon had become a "phony," what with its references to Lennon's real estate purchases -- which were actually the work of Yoko and
her retinue of psychic advisors.

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There has been a cover-up about the death of Mozart that is only now being revealed. False statements about his health are part of the cover-up...

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I think a connection between MDC and Yoko may lie with Bob Dylan...

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Pamela, can you be more specific on any of this? If MDC had any connection with Yoko wouldn't his wife have known? From what I've read, MDC conveyed everything to her.

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Are you thinking Yoko may have had some contact with Gloria?

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No! I'm saying that if MDC was working in collusion with anybody, Gloria would have known. She never indicated any such knowledge. MDC was motivated to kill by his own defective, delusional, acid-fried mind.

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How do we know if Gloria was forthcoming?

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I'm pretty sure she spoke with some of the authors of articles and books about her husband's murder of JL. She always came across to me as warped by religion and deferential towards her sick husband.

Now, some of this stuff left me furious that she did not notify authorities of her husband's plans -- in fact, I'm furious that she did not suffer legal consequences for her failure to do so.

However, I have yet to encounter any indication that she or MDC had prior connections to, say, Yoko.

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I am uncomfortable with what I have read about Gloria. Everything seems nebulous. I have to wonder if she was goading him or influencing him in some way. I do not trust anything she has said...

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Gloria seems pretty weird, I'll give you that. That she would go for a freak like MDC is already odd. I think, however, that she was vulnerable due to her religious upbringing, all of which she took way too seriously.

(Here in suburban MA., where I live, just about everybody has taken the religious faith they were raised with -- and transferred it to Trump, of all people. Great; their new Jesus is a convicted sexual abuser.)

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I don't know what you mean.

John had a brief phase in which he strove to show that he could write in a Dylanesque style (albeit better than Dylan), but I think he got over it all very quickly -- to the point were he was outright mocking Dylan on "Serve Yersef."

According to Fred Seaman, Lennon heard Dylan's "You Gotta Serva Somebody," and sarcastically responded to t with: "Oh, Bob wants to be a waiter now" (not bad!).

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BTW, I think Bob Dylan has a connection to John's original destiny.

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On 23/04/2024 11:59 pm, Norbert wrote:

Gloria seems pretty weird, I'll give you that.  That she would go for a freak like MDC is already odd.  I think, however, that she was
vulnerable due to her religious upbringing, all of which she took way
too seriously.
(Here in suburban MA., where I live, just about everybody has taken the religious faith they were raised with -- and transferred it to Trump, of
all people.  Great; their new Jesus is a convicted sexual abuser.)

Totally vile in every possible way that should balk to anybody claiming
to be a Christian (or any other religious faith or philosophy for that
matter).

geoff

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On 24/04/2024 12:19 am, pamina58 wrote:

BTW, I think Bob Dylan has a connection to John's original destiny.

No kidding !

geoff

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=5891&group=rec.music.beatles#5891

I think John thought Yoko had a connection to his original destiny...

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The Trump-worship in suburban Massachusetts is thoroughly disgusting. Why would they worship this ignorant, misogynistic, anti-democratic screw-up, of all people?

I think it's partly because it takes no effort to emulate someone like Trump. It takes some intelligence and discipline to appreciate a great philosopher or scientist. Trump? All it takes to be like Trump is ignorance and the desire to indulge in a
lot of false bragging.

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Where and how did Dylan goad John?

John famously did a few Dylan-inspired songs -- purely of his own volition -- before moving on.

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I think Bob was intent on goading John...

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I think we're seeing just the tip of the iceberg...

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You have to know where to look...

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Why do you suppose that? I've seen copies of John's famous diaries; they contained no Dylan references that I recall.

John documented his interests with his songs, and although these include a few Dylan pastiches, there re no Dylan references other than the ones in "Yer Blues" and "Serve Yerself."

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Bob knew what John was after.

I think Bob goaded John about not being able to claim his original destiny due to his marrying Cynthia. I think this happened early on.

Cynthia says Bob was at a "drop in when in town" status with them...

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