• Blackbird - Beyonce

    From Bruce@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 29 23:08:40 2024
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSfFwLwRQwY

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  • From Norbert@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 30 17:14:29 2024
    Beyonce sounds pretty good, but I'd have held back a bit on all the additional vocals and effects. I'd give Beyonce more a capella time and let th4 other stuff come in more gradually.

    The tapping sound is a lot like what was on the original -- except this is clearly a machine.

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  • From Norbert@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 5 11:51:34 2024
    I retract my question about McCartney's claim about the song being in part about the civil rights movement. I came across an older quote in which he says, "I had in mind a black woman rather than a bird."

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  • From Norbert@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 5 11:47:26 2024
    McCartney has praised Beyonce's version of the song, and he says she "reinforces the civil rights message" that inspired him to write it in the first place.

    Is this revisionism or was he really inspired by the civil rights movement?

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  • From oldernow@21:1/5 to Norbert on Fri Apr 5 16:45:06 2024
    On 2024-04-05, Norbert <nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote:

    I retract my question about McCartney's claim about
    the song being in part about the civil rights movement.
    I came across an older quote in which he says, "I had in
    mind a black woman rather than a bird."

    I'm tired of everything have to be *about* something other that
    simply being what it is. It's a beautiful song, beautifully recorded,
    utterly unforgettable. And yet that's apparently not good enough. It
    has to be *about* something "bigger".

    Tired.... so fucking tired....

    --
    oldernow
    xyz001 at nym.hush.com

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  • From Norbert@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 5 18:57:42 2024
    I didn't think it *was* about any major social issue and was skeptical, at first, about McCartney's response to Beyonce's version of the song. Then I found an older quote from Paul that supported it.

    I think a lot of the Beatles' songs aren't particularly about anything -- and I agree, that's fine. However, if a songwriter wants to tackle an issue, that could be great, too, especially if it's done well as with "Blackbird."

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  • From oldernow@21:1/5 to Norbert on Fri Apr 5 19:48:27 2024
    On 2024-04-05, Norbert <nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote:

    I didn't think it *was* about any major social issue and
    was skeptical, at first, about McCartney's response to
    Beyonce's version of the song. Then I found an older
    quote from Paul that supported it.

    I think a lot of the Beatles' songs aren't particularly
    about anything -- and I agree, that's fine. However, if a
    songwriter wants to tackle an issue, that could be great,
    too, especially if it's done well as with "Blackbird."

    My admittedly over the top response was more to "moderns"
    hell-bent on hijacking something already amazing into the more
    purely conceptual space of "Aboutness", as though the rest of us
    somehow missed The Real Value, which new enlightenment/wokeness
    predictably devolves further into shaming/canceling those who
    don't acknowledge said "Aboutness" as though the actual - if
    not *only* - value.

    Example:

    "There goes 'oldernow' again, being insensitive to the plight of
    black girls by ignoring that Higher Truth in order to *merely*
    praise the song/arrangement/lyrics/recording!"

    I swear said slope is getting slipperier by the instant.

    Then again, the wife and I are currently plagued by some respiratory
    bug, so it could be the illness talking....

    --
    oldernow
    xyz001 at nym.hush.com

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  • From Norbert@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 5 20:40:07 2024
    I hear what you're saying, believe me.

    And I only like songs that deal with social issues if they're good songs -- say, Gordon Lightfoot's "The Patriot's Dream" which dealt with the Vietnam War -- and if it's a cause I believe in.

    Lennon and Ono dealt with real causes all over Sometime In New York City, but the songs were beyond bad and those were nutcase fringe causes. It's the worst album ever by a former Beatle -- unless you count John and Yoko's other collaborationa.

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  • From oldernow@21:1/5 to Norbert on Fri Apr 5 21:32:12 2024
    On 2024-04-05, Norbert <nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote:

    And I only like songs that deal with social issues
    if they're good songs -- say, Gordon Lightfoot's "The
    Patriot's Dream" which dealt with the Vietnam War --
    and if it's a cause I believe in.

    I've typically not liked songs dealing with social issues: it
    felt like people out of their skill-stack zone even when I was
    teenaged. And if I'm remembering correctly, most of that sentiment
    was borne of John and Yoko's straying that direction.

    Lennon and Ono dealt with real causes all over Sometime
    In New York City, but the songs were beyond bad and those
    were nutcase fringe causes. It's the worst album ever
    by a former Beatle -- unless you count John and Yoko's
    other collaborationa.

    You just wrecked my having successfully forgotten about that album
    for over 40 years, dammit! ;-)

    That said, I vaguely recall liking a few songs from it, although
    unfortunately the first that came to my internet-unassisted mind
    upon seeing the title was "Scumbag".... >_<

    --
    oldernow
    xyz001 at nym.hush.com

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  • From geoff@21:1/5 to oldernow on Sat Apr 6 10:42:11 2024
    On 6/04/2024 8:48 am, oldernow wrote:
    On 2024-04-05, Norbert <nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote:

    I didn't think it *was* about any major social issue and
    was skeptical, at first, about McCartney's response to
    Beyonce's version of the song. Then I found an older
    quote from Paul that supported it.

    I think a lot of the Beatles' songs aren't particularly
    about anything -- and I agree, that's fine. However, if a
    songwriter wants to tackle an issue, that could be great,
    too, especially if it's done well as with "Blackbird."

    My admittedly over the top response was more to "moderns"
    hell-bent on hijacking something already amazing into the more
    purely conceptual space of "Aboutness", as though the rest of us
    somehow missed The Real Value, which new enlightenment/wokeness
    predictably devolves further into shaming/canceling those who
    don't acknowledge said "Aboutness" as though the actual - if
    not *only* - value.

    Example:

    "There goes 'oldernow' again, being insensitive to the plight of
    black girls by ignoring that Higher Truth in order to *merely*
    praise the song/arrangement/lyrics/recording!"

    I swear said slope is getting slipperier by the instant.

    Then again, the wife and I are currently plagued by some respiratory
    bug, so it could be the illness talking....


    Al contraire - so much these days would appear to be about nothing at
    all,or about trivial shit.

    As opposed to 'then', when music typically actually was 'about'
    something - although this may have gone over the heads of some at the
    time ....

    geoff

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  • From oldernow@21:1/5 to geoff on Fri Apr 5 22:17:17 2024
    On 2024-04-05, geoff <geoff@nospamgeoffwood.org> wrote:
    On 6/04/2024 8:48 am, oldernow wrote:
    On 2024-04-05, Norbert <nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote:

    I didn't think it *was* about any major social issue and
    was skeptical, at first, about McCartney's response to
    Beyonce's version of the song. Then I found an older
    quote from Paul that supported it.

    I think a lot of the Beatles' songs aren't particularly
    about anything -- and I agree, that's fine. However, if a
    songwriter wants to tackle an issue, that could be great,
    too, especially if it's done well as with "Blackbird."

    My admittedly over the top response was more to "moderns"
    hell-bent on hijacking something already amazing into the more
    purely conceptual space of "Aboutness", as though the rest of us
    somehow missed The Real Value, which new enlightenment/wokeness
    predictably devolves further into shaming/canceling those who
    don't acknowledge said "Aboutness" as though the actual - if
    not *only* - value.

    Example:

    "There goes 'oldernow' again, being insensitive to the plight of
    black girls by ignoring that Higher Truth in order to *merely*
    praise the song/arrangement/lyrics/recording!"

    I swear said slope is getting slipperier by the instant.

    Then again, the wife and I are currently plagued by some respiratory
    bug, so it could be the illness talking....

    Al contraire - so much these days would appear to be about nothing at
    all,or about trivial shit.

    Well, and then there's that. :-)

    I don't know how to rewrite what I did to address what I was feeling
    at the time *and* what you're pointing out, which I don't disagree
    with. But I'll try some meandering, and maybe I chance upon it:

    I think part of what I was getting at was that I've tended to be more
    into the music than the meaning of any lyrics. But that's not to say
    I don't adore the *words* comprising the lyrics. However, for me the
    important aspects of the words are more their pronunciation, syllable
    metering, and musical notes underlying the vocalizing thereof.

    Take "Help!", for example. Fantastic lyrics. And yet none of them
    give me the kind of chills/goosebumps that the first "When" does.

    The power of that "When" for me isn't what 'when' means: it's the
    sound of the word, how it's vocally attacked, whatever musical note
    is underlying it relative to its surroundings, and that it's a single
    brief - yet sustained so exquisitely long - syllable sandwiched
    between that wonderful descending guitar thing, and my all-time
    favorite vocalist's voice entering the soundscape squarely in its
    zone that's always moved/spoken to me - that voice itself.

    Does that make any sense?

    As opposed to 'then', when music typically actually was 'about'
    something - although this may have gone over the heads of some at the
    time ....

    My take is music is no doubt about something ("meaning of lyrics"
    sense) to those who need it to be about something, starting with
    the composer. And that's fine. It's just that any aboutness simply
    hasn't typically added much to my joy over/with songs.

    Another example: the harmony and duration of the sustain of the
    final "yeah" in "She Loves You" reaches much more deeply into
    me than whatever the song is about, whatever it meant to others,
    to history, etc.

    Of *course* I've chanced upon all such analysis of such over the
    years, but whereas such tends toward 'tl;dr', the sound of that
    word presented by their voices at that moment in the song still
    drops my jaw involuntarily.

    --
    oldernow
    xyz001 at nym.hush.com

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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to oldernow on Sat Apr 6 02:11:47 2024
    oldernow wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, geoff <geoff@nospamgeoffwood.org> wrote:
    On 6/04/2024 8:48 am, oldernow wrote:
    On 2024-04-05, Norbert <nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote:

    I didn't think it *was* about any major social issue and
    was skeptical, at first, about McCartney's response to
    Beyonce's version of the song. Then I found an older
    quote from Paul that supported it.

    I think a lot of the Beatles' songs aren't particularly
    about anything -- and I agree, that's fine. However, if a
    songwriter wants to tackle an issue, that could be great,
    too, especially if it's done well as with "Blackbird."

    My admittedly over the top response was more to "moderns"
    hell-bent on hijacking something already amazing into the more
    purely conceptual space of "Aboutness", as though the rest of us
    somehow missed The Real Value, which new enlightenment/wokeness
    predictably devolves further into shaming/canceling those who
    don't acknowledge said "Aboutness" as though the actual - if
    not *only* - value.

    Example:

    "There goes 'oldernow' again, being insensitive to the plight of
    black girls by ignoring that Higher Truth in order to *merely*
    praise the song/arrangement/lyrics/recording!"

    I swear said slope is getting slipperier by the instant.

    Then again, the wife and I are currently plagued by some respiratory
    bug, so it could be the illness talking....

    Al contraire - so much these days would appear to be about nothing at
    all,or about trivial shit.

    Well, and then there's that. :-)

    I don't know how to rewrite what I did to address what I was feeling
    at the time *and* what you're pointing out, which I don't disagree
    with. But I'll try some meandering, and maybe I chance upon it:

    I think part of what I was getting at was that I've tended to be more
    into the music than the meaning of any lyrics. But that's not to say
    I don't adore the *words* comprising the lyrics. However, for me the important aspects of the words are more their pronunciation, syllable metering, and musical notes underlying the vocalizing thereof.

    Take "Help!", for example. Fantastic lyrics. And yet none of them
    give me the kind of chills/goosebumps that the first "When" does.

    The power of that "When" for me isn't what 'when' means: it's the
    sound of the word, how it's vocally attacked, whatever musical note
    is underlying it relative to its surroundings, and that it's a single
    brief - yet sustained so exquisitely long - syllable sandwiched
    between that wonderful descending guitar thing, and my all-time
    favorite vocalist's voice entering the soundscape squarely in its
    zone that's always moved/spoken to me - that voice itself.

    Does that make any sense?

    As opposed to 'then', when music typically actually was 'about'
    something - although this may have gone over the heads of some at the
    time ....

    My take is music is no doubt about something ("meaning of lyrics"
    sense) to those who need it to be about something, starting with
    the composer. And that's fine. It's just that any aboutness simply
    hasn't typically added much to my joy over/with songs.

    Another example: the harmony and duration of the sustain of the
    final "yeah" in "She Loves You" reaches much more deeply into
    me than whatever the song is about, whatever it meant to others,
    to history, etc.

    Of *course* I've chanced upon all such analysis of such over the
    years, but whereas such tends toward 'tl;dr', the sound of that
    word presented by their voices at that moment in the song still
    drops my jaw involuntarily.

    Great post. I'm like 95% with you here. In my case I have no interest at all in what the words are supposed to mean. They are only important phonetically. The little bit I differ with you is that you mentioned that "Help" had great lyrics. I have no idea
    if the lyrics are good because I've never been interested in figuring out what they are supposed to be saying.

    I have no idea what most of my favorite songs are about. Never cared to examine that. If I want somebody's opinion about social issues or about other aspects of life, I wouldn't ask some musician. I may as well ask my plumber before I ask John Lennon, or
    Bob Dylan.

    I once put "St. James Infirmary" by Bobby Bland on a playlist I was making for having sex too, thinking that it was something romantic. My girlfriend had to tell me that it's about a guy going down to the clinic because he got VD from his woman.

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  • From oldernow@21:1/5 to Bruce on Sat Apr 6 12:27:36 2024
    On 2024-04-06, Bruce <savoybg@aol.com> wrote:
    oldernow wrote:
    On 2024-04-05, geoff <geoff@nospamgeoffwood.org> wrote:

    Al contraire - so much these days would appear to be about nothing at
    all,or about trivial shit.

    Well, and then there's that. :-)

    I don't know how to rewrite what I did to address what I was feeling
    at the time *and* what you're pointing out, which I don't disagree
    with. But I'll try some meandering, and maybe I chance upon it:

    I think part of what I was getting at was that I've tended to be more
    into the music than the meaning of any lyrics. But that's not to say
    I don't adore the *words* comprising the lyrics. However, for me the
    important aspects of the words are more their pronunciation, syllable
    metering, and musical notes underlying the vocalizing thereof.

    Take "Help!", for example. Fantastic lyrics. And yet none of them
    give me the kind of chills/goosebumps that the first "When" does.

    The power of that "When" for me isn't what 'when' means: it's the
    sound of the word, how it's vocally attacked, whatever musical note
    is underlying it relative to its surroundings, and that it's a single
    brief - yet sustained so exquisitely long - syllable sandwiched
    between that wonderful descending guitar thing, and my all-time
    favorite vocalist's voice entering the soundscape squarely in its
    zone that's always moved/spoken to me - that voice itself.

    Does that make any sense?

    As opposed to 'then', when music typically actually was 'about'
    something - although this may have gone over the heads of some at the
    time ....

    My take is music is no doubt about something ("meaning of lyrics"
    sense) to those who need it to be about something, starting with
    the composer. And that's fine. It's just that any aboutness simply
    hasn't typically added much to my joy over/with songs.

    Another example: the harmony and duration of the sustain of the
    final "yeah" in "She Loves You" reaches much more deeply into
    me than whatever the song is about, whatever it meant to others,
    to history, etc.

    Of *course* I've chanced upon all such analysis of such over the
    years, but whereas such tends toward 'tl;dr', the sound of that
    word presented by their voices at that moment in the song still
    drops my jaw involuntarily.

    Great post.

    Thank you!

    I'm like 95% with you here. In my case I have no interest
    at all in what the words are supposed to mean. They are
    only important phonetically. The little bit I differ with
    you is that you mentioned that "Help" had great lyrics. I
    have no idea if the lyrics are good because I've never
    been interested in figuring out what they are supposed to
    be saying.

    I should clarify.

    What I meant by "great" lyrics was that somewhere along the line,
    I was finally able to relate to the likes of "when I was younger,
    so much younger than today". So they became meaningful to my life
    circumstance. To have said they're "great" unqualified would have
    implied I've a deep understanding of the better/worse-ness of lyrics
    in some objective sense, which I don't. But it's pretty common
    for people to conflate liking something with it being objective
    good/great, as though their personal taste were some objective
    measuring device.

    I've written songs with lyrics. In every single case the lyrics were
    a reflection of personal experience. What they might mean to others,
    well, no idea. As I've seen written elsewhere "the words are mine;
    the meaning is *you*", which I believe is trying to say that what
    we falsely assume is *in* words ("meaning") is actually something
    we bring to their table, as it were. We bring the meaning. And
    it's our individual meaning, living purely in the context of our
    relative understanding (never mind how we're feeling in a given
    moment). It may happen to overlay with the meaning others bring,
    but even then, who can say given we're all coming at meaning from
    a completely different inner conceptual context (aka mind)?

    I have no idea what most of my favorite songs are
    about. Never cared to examine that. If I want somebody's
    opinion about social issues or about other aspects of life,
    I wouldn't ask some musician. I may as well ask my plumber
    before I ask John Lennon, or Bob Dylan.

    I always ask my wife, because then I know I'm getting The Truth
    instead of heresy. ;-)

    My all time favorite is "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away". It
    happened to mean something more personally relevant when I was
    younger, which as basically a sort of teenage personal pity party
    for not garnering the attention of girls the way others seemed
    to. But the music itself has remained a constant #1 for me, first
    and foremost the vocal. Oh my God, that vocal....

    (FWIW, I put it on continuous loop (well... kept manually hitting
    the "back" button given my car CD player didn't have the notion
    of automatic replay..) between the funeral home and where my mom
    was laid to rest. I can't say whether it was "fitting" from others'
    points of view, but doing that really helped cement a lot of memories
    from that day.)

    I once put "St. James Infirmary" by Bobby Bland on a
    playlist I was making for having sex too, thinking that
    it was something romantic. My girlfriend had to tell me
    that it's about a guy going down to the clinic because he
    got VD from his woman.

    That makes me think I'd like to read accounts of some of your
    Valentine's Day experiences. ;-)

    --
    oldernow
    xyz001 at nym.hush.com

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