• Re: Getting To 'The Riff Stage' (2/2)

    From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to geoff on Sat Jun 4 10:36:41 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    Perhaps I'm just so far ahead that it is impossible for someone like yourself to appreciate anything that presents as so complex, which was the trick of The Beatles, concealing their advanced intellect into something accessible. This is the
    deconstructing of that, so it is a cerebral approach to demystify the creative process. It is highly disingenuous to discard a perfect solution capriciously and with malice - if all we need is Love, that is not it.

    I left out what the riff is actually saying, at a couple of points it matches the vocal line, but carries a different message.

    The band was being criticized for meaningless platitudes, superficial romantic scenarios, and general noise: of course you would object to the set of facts that turns that around, and puts the onus on the audience to recognize what many collectively own
    as their Faith, because most obviously could not.

    Being ahead of the curve with musical analysis is subjective, but doing so with prophecy is more conclusive. I did not realize it, but I focused on a quatrain with a line about the recent school shooting in Texas, in late November 2020.

    23 November 2020

    https://groups.google.com/g/alt.prophecies.nostradamus/c/AfnDRGPJxeg/m/D02MdlD3AwAJ


    Le gouverneur du regne bien savant
    Ne consenter voulant au fait Royal
    Mellile classe par le contraire vent
    Le remettra à son plus déloyal

    The thoroughly crafty governor of the realm
    Not intending to consent to the Royal deed;
    Melilla fleet through the contrary wind
    Will consign him to his most disloyal

    <<
    Despite a document newly advancing superficial features of a transition, it is no secret efforts to overturn the result of the recent election remain underway; apparently a concession would be the Regal move that is being avoided according to line 2,
    which would uphold the tradition of a peaceful transfer of power as performed by prior temporal 'kings,' whereas the alternative bears an unseemly tyrannical aspect. The latter portion of VI.45 suggests a karmic response. Melilla is an autonomous Spanish
    city on the northern coast of Africa, bordering Morocco; its name derived from the Latin word for honey ('mel') reflects the location being known for beekeeping – two ancient coins minted in the city depict a bee, with inscriptions RSADR and RSA, both
    for its earlier name Rusadir, when it was a Punic and Roman territory. Rusadir can be translated as 'Cape of the Powerful One,'...


    The untranslated word 'classe' oddly fits better than switching to 'fleet' with Latin; Uvalde is known as a major producer of honey. When the shooting occurred, asteroid Lilith, named for a Wind Succubus, was about half a degree from a conjunction,
    which happened in the aftermath on 26 May 2022. I was thinking of an opposition which was not the meaning, many months early: but the collection of elements, a town associated with honey, a classroom setting, the timing with the Lilith celestial wind
    character - if you calculated probabilities instead of how to gather a mob you'd understand the highly unlikely coalescing of these various elements could constitute fulfillment.

    It is the same with The Beatles: I have presented a clear confluence with a detailed musical contemplation on each stage of the Christian story given in reverse order, which to be coincidental would be astronomically improbable; that each song can be
    further illuminated to demonstrate that is the genuine theme may be infuriating, but if it could not be done by someone else then their invented form of communication actually would have failed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Sat Jun 4 12:54:06 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    You should hear the outtake where John Lennon gets the group to rally in a session by reminding them the reason they are all there is Jesus Christ, albeit in a funny voice - it was played on the Carter radio show.

    Perhaps I'm just so far ahead that it is impossible for someone like yourself to appreciate anything that presents as so complex, which was the trick of The Beatles, concealing their advanced intellect into something accessible. This is the
    deconstructing of that, so it is a cerebral approach to demystify the creative process. It is highly disingenuous to discard a perfect solution capriciously and with malice - if all we need is Love, that is not it.

    I left out what the riff is actually saying, at a couple of points it matches the vocal line, but carries a different message.

    The band was being criticized for meaningless platitudes, superficial romantic scenarios, and general noise: of course you would object to the set of facts that turns that around, and puts the onus on the audience to recognize what many collectively
    own as their Faith, because most obviously could not.

    Being ahead of the curve with musical analysis is subjective, but doing so with prophecy is more conclusive. I did not realize it, but I focused on a quatrain with a line about the recent school shooting in Texas, in late November 2020.

    23 November 2020

    https://groups.google.com/g/alt.prophecies.nostradamus/c/AfnDRGPJxeg/m/D02MdlD3AwAJ


    Le gouverneur du regne bien savant
    Ne consenter voulant au fait Royal
    Mellile classe par le contraire vent
    Le remettra à son plus déloyal

    The thoroughly crafty governor of the realm
    Not intending to consent to the Royal deed;
    Melilla fleet through the contrary wind
    Will consign him to his most disloyal

    <<
    Despite a document newly advancing superficial features of a transition, it is no secret efforts to overturn the result of the recent election remain underway; apparently a concession would be the Regal move that is being avoided according to line 2,
    which would uphold the tradition of a peaceful transfer of power as performed by prior temporal 'kings,' whereas the alternative bears an unseemly tyrannical aspect. The latter portion of VI.45 suggests a karmic response. Melilla is an autonomous Spanish
    city on the northern coast of Africa, bordering Morocco; its name derived from the Latin word for honey ('mel') reflects the location being known for beekeeping – two ancient coins minted in the city depict a bee, with inscriptions RSADR and RSA, both
    for its earlier name Rusadir, when it was a Punic and Roman territory. Rusadir can be translated as 'Cape of the Powerful One,'...


    The untranslated word 'classe' oddly fits better than switching to 'fleet' with Latin; Uvalde is known as a major producer of honey. When the shooting occurred, asteroid Lilith, named for a Wind Succubus, was about half a degree from a conjunction,
    which happened in the aftermath on 26 May 2022. I was thinking of an opposition which was not the meaning, many months early: but the collection of elements, a town associated with honey, a classroom setting, the timing with the Lilith celestial wind
    character - if you calculated probabilities instead of how to gather a mob you'd understand the highly unlikely coalescing of these various elements could constitute fulfillment.

    It is the same with The Beatles: I have presented a clear confluence with a detailed musical contemplation on each stage of the Christian story given in reverse order, which to be coincidental would be astronomically improbable; that each song can be
    further illuminated to demonstrate that is the genuine theme may be infuriating, but if it could not be done by someone else then their invented form of communication actually would have failed.

    If people paid attention to what things sounded like, they could have just as easily heard "She Loves You" as a homage to Tolkien's fantasy novels. Journalists would write the mania caused crowds to scream when The Beatles walked onstage as if they were
    seeing an eight-legged arachnoid of superhuman proportions. The repetition of "Yeah" three times was followed by a final "Yeah" with an added sixth harmony. Paul's father did not understand why "Yes" would not be a proper substitute. George Martin
    said the added sixth sounded like something the Andrews Sisters would use to dissuade them, but they insisted. The engineer looking at the lyrics was unimpressed, but once the session commenced he found the actual music exhilarating.

    The key is knowing about the spider character Shelob, so the refrain resembles,

    'Shelob Grew -
    A
    GREAT
    PAIR

    Shelob Grew -
    A
    GREAT
    PAIR

    Shelob Grew -
    A
    GREAT
    FANG

    -PAIR!'

    The shifting tonality resets how the mind would perceive the verbalization. In a special that never aired McCartney said he liked to be doing two things at once in his music.

    Each musical element that I've ascribed to an incident towards the end of John's gospel has a parallel transcription along the fantasy secular tangent. The three guitar chords struck distinctively suggest,

    'From -
    TOL -
    Kien'

    And the brief growling passage played between verses by George Harrison sustains the sinister mental picture, articulated like,

    'GI-ant
    Ta-RAN-tula!'

    The song was always constructed with those features, my pointing it out is merely a superfluous consequence.

    "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

    (Matthew 13:13)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Sat Jun 4 21:10:20 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    It is a musical dramatization of Iscariot mocking the Savior's most controversial teachings, as Satan is entering him to perform the damnable task of the actual betrayal. John Lennon spoke about how concerned they were with song sequencing on
    albums, closing and opening sides with strong material. The next song opening Side Two is "Good Day Sunshine," where the piano bit in the middle deftly continues the story with how some other Apostles had not caught the betrayal hint, and believed Judas
    had departed to make preparations for another supper at a later date.
    Do you get professional help for this ? Should be covered if you have medical insurance.

    geoff
    You should hear the outtake where John Lennon gets the group to rally in a session by reminding them the reason they are all there is Jesus Christ, albeit in a funny voice - it was played on the Carter radio show.

    Perhaps I'm just so far ahead that it is impossible for someone like yourself to appreciate anything that presents as so complex, which was the trick of The Beatles, concealing their advanced intellect into something accessible. This is the
    deconstructing of that, so it is a cerebral approach to demystify the creative process. It is highly disingenuous to discard a perfect solution capriciously and with malice - if all we need is Love, that is not it.

    I left out what the riff is actually saying, at a couple of points it matches the vocal line, but carries a different message.

    The band was being criticized for meaningless platitudes, superficial romantic scenarios, and general noise: of course you would object to the set of facts that turns that around, and puts the onus on the audience to recognize what many collectively
    own as their Faith, because most obviously could not.

    Being ahead of the curve with musical analysis is subjective, but doing so with prophecy is more conclusive. I did not realize it, but I focused on a quatrain with a line about the recent school shooting in Texas, in late November 2020.

    23 November 2020

    https://groups.google.com/g/alt.prophecies.nostradamus/c/AfnDRGPJxeg/m/D02MdlD3AwAJ


    Le gouverneur du regne bien savant
    Ne consenter voulant au fait Royal
    Mellile classe par le contraire vent
    Le remettra à son plus déloyal

    The thoroughly crafty governor of the realm
    Not intending to consent to the Royal deed;
    Melilla fleet through the contrary wind
    Will consign him to his most disloyal

    <<
    Despite a document newly advancing superficial features of a transition, it is no secret efforts to overturn the result of the recent election remain underway; apparently a concession would be the Regal move that is being avoided according to line 2,
    which would uphold the tradition of a peaceful transfer of power as performed by prior temporal 'kings,' whereas the alternative bears an unseemly tyrannical aspect. The latter portion of VI.45 suggests a karmic response. Melilla is an autonomous Spanish
    city on the northern coast of Africa, bordering Morocco; its name derived from the Latin word for honey ('mel') reflects the location being known for beekeeping – two ancient coins minted in the city depict a bee, with inscriptions RSADR and RSA, both
    for its earlier name Rusadir, when it was a Punic and Roman territory. Rusadir can be translated as 'Cape of the Powerful One,'...


    The untranslated word 'classe' oddly fits better than switching to 'fleet' with Latin; Uvalde is known as a major producer of honey. When the shooting occurred, asteroid Lilith, named for a Wind Succubus, was about half a degree from a conjunction,
    which happened in the aftermath on 26 May 2022. I was thinking of an opposition which was not the meaning, many months early: but the collection of elements, a town associated with honey, a classroom setting, the timing with the Lilith celestial wind
    character - if you calculated probabilities instead of how to gather a mob you'd understand the highly unlikely coalescing of these various elements could constitute fulfillment.

    It is the same with The Beatles: I have presented a clear confluence with a detailed musical contemplation on each stage of the Christian story given in reverse order, which to be coincidental would be astronomically improbable; that each song can be
    further illuminated to demonstrate that is the genuine theme may be infuriating, but if it could not be done by someone else then their invented form of communication actually would have failed.
    If people paid attention to what things sounded like, they could have just as easily heard "She Loves You" as a homage to Tolkien's fantasy novels. Journalists would write the mania caused crowds to scream when The Beatles walked onstage as if they
    were seeing an eight-legged arachnoid of superhuman proportions. The repetition of "Yeah" three times was followed by a final "Yeah" with an added sixth harmony. Paul's father did not understand why "Yes" would not be a proper substitute. George Martin
    said the added sixth sounded like something the Andrews Sisters would use to dissuade them, but they insisted. The engineer looking at the lyrics was unimpressed, but once the session commenced he found the actual music exhilarating.

    The key is knowing about the spider character Shelob, so the refrain resembles,

    'Shelob Grew -
    A
    GREAT
    PAIR

    Shelob Grew -
    A
    GREAT
    PAIR

    Shelob Grew -
    A
    GREAT
    FANG

    -PAIR!'

    The shifting tonality resets how the mind would perceive the verbalization. In a special that never aired McCartney said he liked to be doing two things at once in his music.

    Each musical element that I've ascribed to an incident towards the end of John's gospel has a parallel transcription along the fantasy secular tangent. The three guitar chords struck distinctively suggest,

    'From -
    TOL -
    Kien'

    And the brief growling passage played between verses by George Harrison sustains the sinister mental picture, articulated like,

    'GI-ant
    Ta-RAN-tula!'

    The song was always constructed with those features, my pointing it out is merely a superfluous consequence.

    "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

    (Matthew 13:13)

    I realize that there's no way anyone could understand what I meant about my books that are commercial failures playing into any prophecies nobody acknowledges, but since the explanation is so complicated I thought to provide it on request. However,
    since I am getting the equivalent of fart noises to block out the PA announcement about boarding lifeboats on the Titanic, you should face the unpleasant reality of your own collective delusions where oblivious ignorance defines conformity.

    In the Get Back documentary they spoke about possibly re-creating some version of the "Around The Beatles" television special, which was done at the time of Shakespeare's four hundredth birthday in April 1964; playing Pyramus, Thisbe, Moonshine and Lion,
    The Beatles enacted a scene from "A Midsummer Night's Dream" for a live audience in-the-round. For a cover to the "A Hard Day's Night" era material installment in my book series, my homage depicted the band as pages from another scene (with Ringo in
    French courier garb), including the authentic casting of a spotlight on an orange-ish wall (using a color photo) that lightened it to a large yellowish spot. The book was published on 28 March 2012. Showing where that fits in the Nostradamus quatrains
    is simple as 1-2-3: Century I, Quatrain 23.

    At the third month the Sun rising;
    Boar, Leopard, set for combat at the field of Mars;
    The tired Leopard extending his gaze heavenward
    Would see an Eagle frolicking around the Sun

    Throughout the writings there is an 'Aigle' character, mysterious personage of the seer's future, translates to 'Eagle,' which could mean Eagal. The book with the inadvertent Sunrise imagery did emerge just before third month March ended in 2012, but
    the second line is about 2005.

    The Boar became Pope Francis I, and the Leopard as Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI: their 'combat' for the papacy was in the conclave of 2005. John Paul II died 2 April 2005, and there was an interregnum period between then and the first conclave on 18 April
    2005 - but during that period on 13 April 2005 there was a conjunction of Mars with Neptune. This is the subject of IX.50 line 3:

    The red one pales, the male (symbol) at the interregnum

    Notice only Mars is mentioned, Neptune is not given as the cause of Mars going pale.

    The jump back from 2012 to 2005 for identification is understandable if one considers the papacy in 2012: on 30 May 2012 Benedict made a public address concerning the Vatican leaks scandal; and 28 February 2013 Benedict (who had been the subject of an
    article titled, "Can This Leopard Change His Spots?") resigned the papacy.

    My more recent book, regarding the "Beatles For Sale" era, strangely was attended by strong winds during the writing process. Its characters had been ruined to gibberish through some glitch, so recovery was a problem; it existed in two parts, one
    history, the other musical analysis, until they were combined and published on 13 June 2020, simultaneous with a conjunction of Mars and Neptune (again).

    A window into that phase is given in IV.100.

    With celestial fire at the Royal edifice
    When the illumination of Mars will flicker
    Seven months of conflict, people dead through malfeasance;
    Rouen, Evreux at the King who will not waver

    It all seems very cryptic and gobbledygook, but it made sense in 2020. The 'celestial fire' was a penumbral lunar eclipse, turning the Moon a fiery reddish color, on 5 July 2020. The Moon was then very near the asteroid Pallas (with 'Palace' sound-
    alike wordplay) and Jupiter (king of the planets, like Zeus) - so that was the 'Royal edifice.'

    Mars had its light pale or flicker by conjunction with Neptune on 13 June 2020, for line 2.

    This was the time of the protests after the Floyd murder, which lasted about seven months, and focused on justice for a list of names of people said to have died through malfeasance - that's line 3.

    The final line is something no newscaster could endorse, because it departs from rational logic into encoding. Rather than actually speaking of the locations in France, they are referencing saints associated with those places, whose feast days fall at
    events of concern - this is how timing was obscured.

    For Rouen, there is Saint Medard of 8 June, which in 2020 was the day I found myself on a tangent about The Holy Shroud, from the subliminal content of "I Don't Want To Spoil The Party," which corresponds. I determined, as heard from a guest recently on
    radio, that the Catholic Church refused to allow three separate samples, and forced scientists to take one sample from a place already used, that was thought to be an over-worn corner the Savoy family repaired with expert reweaving techniques, so the
    carbon-dating tests from a single bad sample, against scientific protocols, were all useless. The actual image is caused by radiation that cannot be duplicated, creating a photographic negative before such a thing technically existed. The style of
    fabric, spores, accurate anatomy for the scriptural depiction of The Crucifixion, and blood with high bilirubin content all point towards authenticity.

    So with Evreux we have Saint Leutfridis of 21 June, which in 2020 was the day of an annular solar eclipse - and it is the astronomical spectacle of solar eclipses that receive the designation of 'King' in the prophecies. I was also informed that the
    book was available in paperback version on 21 June 2020.

    There are also a couple of lines from VIII.85 that seem parallel.

    At the annex from Aquilon Turnip will remove light
    Then people will be suffocating in bed lacking assistance

    The word I replaced with 'turnip' is 'Nanar,' which transliterated to 'Navet,' for 'Turnip' - but a search for correlations brought out an old almanac instruction to plant turnips timed from the festival for Neptune. So there could be the missing
    reference to Neptune, then with Mars missing altogether because making things easy is not a priority. [Aquilon is possible encoding for the US.]

    The 'annex' could mean simply another installment in a series, which it was. Of course the historic backdrop was the onset of the Covid-19 pandemic, explaining with gruesome accuracy the lethal affliction of the lower respiratory tract as a basic
    adverse effect.

    How would the seer refer to a book divulging the esoteric secrets of the "Help!" era? The answer seems to be in VI.16 -

    The villains of the Temple where stood the Black Forest
    Will make an inn and fire of Lombardy

    The Crucifixion phase would be populated with the 'villains of the Temple': and the cover image set in the Austrian Alps brings us very near the fabled Black Forest.

    The first half of VI.16 already happened with the Aurora, Colorado theater shooting of 20 July 2012 -

    That which will be ravished by the young 'Milve'
    Through the Normans of France and Picardy

    The word 'Milve' should be translated for 'Hawk,' but it is an anagram, missing one letter for 'Vilmer' (or Wulmar), the saint of Picardy with the 20 July feast day.

    It is up to people to choose which path is more reckless, compiling facts that could dependably bring comprehension to what is actually transpiring, or mocking someone who has apparently done so.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to RJKe...@yahoo.com on Thu Jul 14 12:08:13 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to stave off
    Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Thu Jul 14 13:59:49 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their equally outlandish
    fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a higher level of
    insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to stave off
    Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.

    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A Second Time." John
    wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the key of e minor,
    the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively. Beyond the vocal
    twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for 'spectral' vocal-
    texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks, solos, and of
    course riffs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RJKellog@yahoo.com@21:1/5 to eagali...@gmail.com on Fri Jul 15 06:13:18 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their equally outlandish
    fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a higher level of
    insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to stave off
    Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A Second Time." John
    wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the key of e minor,
    the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively. Beyond the vocal
    twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for 'spectral' vocal-
    texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks, solos, and of course
    riffs.

    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to RJKe...@yahoo.com on Fri Jul 15 10:44:07 2022
    [continued from previous message]


    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa 1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their equally outlandish
    fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a higher level of
    insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to stave off
    Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A Second Time." John
    wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the key of e minor,
    the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively. Beyond the vocal
    twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for 'spectral' vocal-
    texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks, solos, and of course
    riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public

    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to looking back to now,
    "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I explain it is the
    third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the instructor, thinking
    it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by whatever Allen
    Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song by him they
    absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the whimsically macabre
    nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded like what I had
    written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that is not
    practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been properly 'consumed' by
    adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RJKellog@yahoo.com@21:1/5 to eagali...@gmail.com on Sat Jul 16 08:45:30 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon they wanted the
    opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their Cavern Club
    debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa 1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their equally
    outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a higher level
    of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to stave off
    Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A Second Time."
    John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the key of e
    minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively. Beyond the
    vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for 'spectral' vocal-
    texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks, solos, and of course
    riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to looking back to
    now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I explain it is the
    third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the instructor,
    thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by whatever
    Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song by him they
    absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the whimsically macabre
    nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded like what I
    had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that is not
    practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been properly 'consumed'
    by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"

    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to RJKe...@yahoo.com on Fri Jul 22 12:01:04 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a 'Remembrance of Him,'
    that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison had said the group was
    always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon they wanted the
    opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their Cavern Club
    debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa 1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their equally
    outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a higher
    level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to stave
    off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A Second Time."
    John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the key of e
    minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively. Beyond the
    vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for 'spectral'
    vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks, solos, and of
    course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to looking back to
    now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I explain it is the
    third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the instructor,
    thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by whatever
    Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song by him they
    absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the whimsically macabre
    nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded like what I
    had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that is not
    practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been properly 'consumed'
    by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.

    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to guitar is
    immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics to guide
    through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were schoolmates,
    Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was when my own
    family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the incident occurred,
    since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite recording.

    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In the Get Back film
    they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any special chord.
    When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by acoustic guitar. And
    when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the relevant gospel
    passage.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RJKellog@yahoo.com@21:1/5 to eagali...@gmail.com on Fri Jul 22 13:36:20 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    George Harrison saying they had thrown boulders into the waters and were waiting for a tsunami-like ripple does not seem like a non-serious expectation. Lennon chided the others for saying good things about their own songs, calling them 'big-
    headed' about the tunes, prompting Harrison to protest that the interviewer merely asked if they liked their own songs. The results John wanted would not be forthcoming, and he soured on the artifice towards getting to the 'nitty-gritty.'

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a 'Remembrance of Him,'
    that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison had said the group was
    always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon they wanted
    the opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their Cavern Club
    debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa 1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their equally
    outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a higher
    level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to stave
    off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A Second Time."
    John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the key of e
    minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively. Beyond the
    vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for 'spectral'
    vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks, solos, and of
    course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to looking back
    to now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I explain it is the
    third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the instructor,
    thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by whatever
    Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song by him
    they absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the whimsically
    macabre nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded like what
    I had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that is not
    practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been properly '
    consumed' by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.
    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to guitar is
    immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics to guide
    through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were schoolmates,
    Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was when my own
    family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the incident
    occurred, since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite recording.

    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In the Get Back
    film they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any special chord.
    When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by acoustic guitar. And
    when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the relevant gospel
    passage.

    Thanks for all the info.

    Right. Lennon was proud of the feedback in 'I Feel Fine' even in the later interviews, pointing out that the Beatles incorporated feedback into a song before the Who or Hendrix.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Fri Jul 22 13:36:16 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    George Harrison saying they had thrown boulders into the waters and were waiting for a tsunami-like ripple does not seem like a non-serious expectation. Lennon chided the others for saying good things about their own songs, calling them 'big-
    headed' about the tunes, prompting Harrison to protest that the interviewer merely asked if they liked their own songs. The results John wanted would not be forthcoming, and he soured on the artifice towards getting to the 'nitty-gritty.'

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a 'Remembrance of Him,'
    that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison had said the group was
    always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon they wanted
    the opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their Cavern Club
    debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa 1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their equally
    outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a higher
    level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to stave
    off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A Second Time."
    John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the key of e
    minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively. Beyond the
    vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for 'spectral'
    vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks, solos, and of
    course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to looking back
    to now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I explain it is the
    third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the instructor,
    thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by whatever
    Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song by him
    they absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the whimsically
    macabre nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded like what
    I had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that is not
    practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been properly '
    consumed' by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.
    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to guitar is
    immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics to guide
    through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were schoolmates,
    Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was when my own
    family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the incident
    occurred, since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite recording.

    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In the Get Back
    film they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any special chord.
    When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by acoustic guitar. And
    when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the relevant gospel
    passage.

    Attributing myself from a parallel thread on another newsgroup:

    <{< While in the Hopi prophecies the nuclear bombings in Japan of August 1945 was predicted as a 'Gourd of Ashes' being dropped, few have noted it occurred when the planets formed a Bowl like the May 2022 Urn configuration. From the excerpted texts at
    the linked page it can be seen the Hopi have a history that extends farther back than the Deluge, and were anticipating the progressive advances in transportation, from wagons to 'highways in the sky,' the shimmering face of the United Nations building
    as a 'House of Mica,' the Moon landing, specific cultural changes and so on.

    Their prophetic source also warned the Hopi not to be too complicit with the temptation of technology, because it would be accompanied by life going out of balance with wars, lies and corruption, which would produce disruptive Earth changes ("earthquakes,
    floods, drought, fires, tornadoes") in consequence. Disaffected murderous youth was foretold. They believe that at the critical time outside assistance would arrive in a form they recognize, when humanity is faced with a binary choice between returning
    to harmony with Nature, or facing Oblivion. The Hopis spoke of a Great Purification Day, and the world turning over four times...

    As for the Hopi claim that the Apollo 11 crew brought something back with them from the Moon in 1969, there is actually some esoteric support for that view. The astronauts were in quarantine after their return from 27 July 1969, but that was only for
    things like germs and microbes. During the seduction of Jared, a troop of demons copulated with human females to spawn the Nephilim, hoping to defile the righteous human family with the corrupt descendants of Cain: the result was the Nephilim, a giant
    race that cannibalized children. Angels appealed to God to control the Nephilim, and the Deluge command was made - but the Nephilim would be made to slaughter each other before the Flood. In the Book of Jubilees, the spirits of the Nephilim killed many
    people after the Deluge, until a resolution was reached where a tenth could remain under the direction of Satan, continuing to mislead humanity by whatever means. The remainder were to be sent to a place of punishment that was unnamed...

    Perhaps the only way to banish the wicked spirits of the Nephilim was to anchor their etheric bodies to a strong gravitational field as the Moon would provide, so that return to Earth alone would be impossible for them. So Apollo 11 walking in on this
    Ghost Prison could have actually facilitated an escape via the bubble of their space capsule.

    A Marian apparition identified 1864 as a year when Satan would be allowed to corrupt the Church: the rare Pluto-Node opposition occurred in 1864, symbolizing the Tail of the Dragon in Hades; the First Vatican Council commenced as an aspiration from that
    point, culminating in the controversial 1870 declaration of Papal Infallibility. When the Pluto-Node opposition recurred on 1 August 1969, it included the ominous quirk of the Moon being at the Node: so it was Pluto at the Tail of the Dragon, and the
    Moon at the Dragon's Head - thus it appears the Moon itself has released its wicked captives, to assist Satan in all his endeavors.

    Review the course of 1968-1969. The Devil fathering his own anti-Messianic son was the theme of "Rosemary's Baby," whose star Mia Farrow found herself in India with The Beatles, who were meditating to develop material for the White Album. Since the group
    was regressing from the Lost Years of the "Magical Mystery Tour" into the Infancy period for Christ, the gospels took a back seat to apocryphal Infancy texts: so meditation-addict Prudence Farrow was exhorted to 'come out to play.' The childhood theme
    was carried throughout subliminally, so "Helter Skelter" is the British equivalent of a playground slide: still the message came through that something wicked was 'coming down fast.'

    The visualization of the "Abbey Road" cover image on 8 August 1969 was like a matador waving a red cape in front of the Satanic Bull, and with his demonic cohort augmented by the recently-released Nephilim, the destructive action proceeded swiftly as
    scripture suggests. The Manson family, in its effort to stage a murder similar to what was done to Gary Hinman, so that Bobby Beausoleil in jail would be falsely presumed innocent, perpetrated the unbelievably heinous slaughter of the pregnant wife of
    the director of "Rosemary's Baby" (and others), after midnight ended the day of 8 August 1969 in the pacific time zone. Before the Apollo 11 astronauts were allowed to make contact with the general public, 10 August 1969, 'Helter Skelter' was found
    scrawled in blood at the horrific scene.

    The immense counter-cultural gathering at Woodstock remaining peaceful despite problems was undercut; and the entire peace movement was smeared by the story of crazy hippies who would perpetrate civilian massacre that could even turn the stomach of the
    military (the My Lai massacre occurred the day "Lady Madonna" was released). But the real target was humanity attempting to acquire salvation through the vision of Revelation (the satanic goal is that not even one person be saved): the case would emerge
    the Manson cult fundamentally believed the peace and love espoused by non-Establishment people like The Beatles was an insidious lie, that they were secretly commanding a race war to be incited with every violence imaginable. It did not matter to them
    that McCartney said "Blackbird" was written in promotion of civil rights, or that The Beatles had refused to participate in any segregation practices on their US visits. Hatred can be so strong in some people that they naturally transfer their own
    prejudices onto whomever they admire.

    Today's Hopi people are probably not aware that the seer has focused on the cover of my March 2012 book "A Heard Dream's Rite" for having imagery of the rising sun (I.23, V.24), which they were anticipating >}>

    NEW RESEARCH(!):

    The 18 July 1968 session for "Helter Skelter" slipped into a version of "Blue Moon" with extended duration.

    https://kalender-365.de/blue-moons.php

    A Blue Moon is a second Full Moon in the same month. The previous Blue Moon occurred on the day of The Beatles' last concert, 31 August 1966; the next would be on 31 May 1969, ending at the month when the Apollo 11 mission for the Moon landing was being
    prepared

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/1968/07/18/recording-cry-baby-cry-helter-skelter/

    <<The day’s second session began at 10.30pm and ended at 3.30am. The Beatles recorded three takes of ‘Helter Skelter’, which were essentially rehearsals; they lasted 10’40”, 12’35” and 27’11” respectively.

    The last was the longest recording in the group’s career. An edited mix of take two, meanwhile, was released on 1996’s Anthology 3.

    I made it clear to George Martin when we doing Anthology 3, that the fans are desperate to hear this and I urged him to listen to it, because I don’t think initially he was going to do so. He listened to it, and he said: “Well, why is this important?
    I said forget the quality of the sound, or forget the fact that it’s not quite in tune or whatever, what a producer would normally be looking for, just respect the fact please that it is hailed as the most important outtake of them all, and the fans
    will go crazy if you don’t include this on the Anthology.

    So he took all that on board, which George always does, and he’s very good at that sort of thing, he listens. But, the next time I went in there, they said: “Here it is,” and it was like five minutes, and they’d trimmed it right down. And in fact
    they didn’t use the 27-minute one, there was another one as well that was 12 minutes, which they used, and they’d trimmed it down to five minutes. They said: “This is all people will stand, they won’t stand the whole thing.” And I said: “Well,
    I think a lot of them will actually…”

    Mark Lewisohn >>

    << At this stage ‘Helter Skelter’ was a blues-based jam, although most of the lyrics and chord changes were in place.

    They recorded the long versions of ‘Helter Skelter’ with live tape echo. Echo would normally be added at remix stage otherwise it can’t be altered, but this time they wanted it live. One of the versions developed into a jam which went into and then
    back out of a somewhat bizarre version of ‘Blue Moon’. The problem was, although we were recording them at 15 ips [inches per second] – which meant that we’d get roughly half an hour of time on the tape – the machine we were running for the
    tape echo was going at 30 ips, in other words 15 minutes… The Beatles were jamming away, completely oblivious to the world and we didn’t know what to do because they all had foldback in their headphones so that they could hear the echo. We knew that
    if we stopped it they would notice.

    In the end we decided that the best thing to do was stop the tape echo machine and rewind it. So at one point the echo suddenly stopped and you could hear ‘bllllrrrrippppp’ as it was spooled back. This prompted Paul to put in some kind of clever
    vocal improvisation based around the chattering sound!

    These recordings featured two electric guitars, bass and drums all on the same track, and McCartney’s vocals on another. It is possible that Lennon played the bass on these recordings.

    Following this session, The Beatles didn’t return to ‘Helter Skelter’ until 9 September 1968. >>

    *

    This is the chronology of the Apollo 11 mission, after the 31 May 1969 Blue Moon --

    https://www.space.com/nasa-one-month-to-apollo-11-moon-landing.html

    << On June 11, Apollo 11's mission was finally set when Lt. Gen. Sam C. Phillips, the Apollo program director at NASA, formally announced that NASA intended to land on the moon a month later, assuming all preflight activities went smoothly.

    Between June 14 and 16, Armstrong completed eight flights with the Lunar Landing Training Vehicle, which finished his training with the craft. (He had completed 12 simulated moon landings in the vehicle and its predecessor in previous months.)

    Also on June 16, the astronauts simulated the arrival of the Mobile Quarantine Facility, an Airstream trailer that would house the returning crew members in isolation to ensure they didn't bring back any infections from the moon.

    Between June 14 and 16, Armstrong completed eight flights with the Lunar Landing Training Vehicle, which finished his training with the craft. (He had completed 12 simulated moon landings in the vehicle and its predecessor in previous months.)

    Also on June 16, the astronauts simulated the arrival of the Mobile Quarantine Facility, an Airstream trailer that would house the returning crew members in isolation to ensure they didn't bring back any infections from the moon.

    ...over 400,000, close to half a million people worked behind the scenes on just the Apollo 11 mission alone. From engineers to "human computers,” which included the three African-American women featured in the book and film "Hidden Figures," to
    scientists, administrators, cleaning crews and so many more, it took an enormous collaborative effort to actually complete this seemingly impossible task.

    That work paid off on July 20, 1969, when an estimated 600 million people around the globe sat, glued to their television sets to watch the crew's historic first steps on the moon. >>

    *

    Ordinarily, I would find the transcription detected for "Helter Skelter" along this tangent to be far too esoteric to be conscious, however they did lyrically reference the Blue Moon phenomenon in the outtake version, suggesting perhaps a limit for
    divulging knowledge. While the basic level of insight involves Young Christ in a certain childhood game incident from the Infancy text, re-listening tells an entirely different story, which is so critical for Humanity that it will be provided here.

    The riff in "Helter Skelter" is menacing and rambling, with the alternate transcription,

    'Return Of The Nephilim'-

    This gets repeated, until a strong bass note suggesting,

    'FROM...'

    Then there is the harshly-sounding electric guitar shrieking,

    'The
    SILV'RY
    MOON!'

    McCartney ad-libbed a warning into the solo,

    "Look out! 'Cause here she comes!"

    Then the guitar solo articulates with frightening clarity:

    'When The -

    MOON -

    VISIT -

    Carries A Stowaway BACK,

    There'll Be A LOT Of
    WOE'

    They could not have known that the Apollo 11 mission would be conducted after the next year's Blue Moon, so the outtake is particularly strange. It is a lot to result from merely hearing about a very loud song by The Who (which turned out to be the
    comparatively sedate "I Can See For Miles") and wanting to outdo that.

    As a character in "Casino Royale" said, the release of demonic entities after the Moon landing would explain a lot of things. But for the Hopi notion of Balance versus Oblivion, a better recommendation would be "Koyaanisqatsi," where time lapse imagery
    insinuates fateful industrial conflict with the processes of the natural environment: meaning "Life Out Of Balance," its depictions of modern living are presented as self-evident of impending Doom.

    That same Balance, not the notion of the constellation Libra, but the Scales of Cosmic Justice, is the sense that Nostradamus apparently intended in Century V Quatrain 42, where the Aigle (Eagle for Eagal) name was used: the reference to Lombardy holds
    for 16 July 2022 (feast day for Saint Domnio), when the Indictment Grand Trine prodigy emerged for Geneva with the Moon at a Apex on the Eleventh House cusp - the other two points were Venus, and a union of the Vertex and Fortune.

    The situation rearranges for 9 September 2022 as the Hopi "Purification Day," celestial trial of Venus as the Babylon Harlot (for the 10 August 1945 Venus-Node conjunct, aftermath of the Japanese nuclear bombings), featuring her in innocent Virgo with
    her counselor the Sun, whose trine is pointing at Ouranos (the Uranium source, implying an alternate indictment) with the Dragon's Head Node itself. A weird protracted Grand Trine persists throughout the proceedings. The Moon opposes Venus like a
    prosecuting attorney. Just before the Judgment Grand Trine has Juno (near the Moon, other points Lilith and South Node) meet the false Prime Vertical of the Eleventh House cusp Apex, the Verdict seems handed down by the Vertex-Venus sextile (16 July
    2022 11:30 pm CEST [5:30 pm EDT]).

    This initial fiery cataclysm is part of a double punishment that includes a great flood, with that material included in the conjectured schedule. It does not seem even abnormal climate changes are sufficient to produce all the predicted effects, and the
    location of the exotic physics experiments is specifically identified. Even the Part of Fortune making separate aspects with Saturn and Ceres at the critical time is included as the wings of Babylon, nicknamed Sadness and Misery (Ceres was in a
    convergence 11 January 2020 related to onset of the covid pandemic): in the August 1945 Bowl configuration, Saturn and Ceres were the end-bodies of a large grouping adjacent to Venus, like tips of opposing wings.

    The 9 September timing is also during a Vestal conjunct phase, and coincides remembrance of Christian martyrs in Nagasaki, the Great Martyrdom having transpired in 10 September 1622. The wheels of Cosmic Justice take time to turn just as with human
    litigation, and the implied awareness of the events 400 years prior demonstrates this is not a one-sided exercise, despite the outcome being predetermined.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to RJKe...@yahoo.com on Fri Jul 22 15:49:48 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    The group collectively said they knew what they meant by their songs, eventually people would figure it out, but things take on millions of meanings in an incomprehensible process, and to elaborate further would be like hearing it their way
    for you. Lennon blurted out the 'subliminal' answer when Tom Snyder asked how such innocuous stuff as Beatles music could have so powerful a cultural effect.

    George Harrison saying they had thrown boulders into the waters and were waiting for a tsunami-like ripple does not seem like a non-serious expectation. Lennon chided the others for saying good things about their own songs, calling them '
    big-headed' about the tunes, prompting Harrison to protest that the interviewer merely asked if they liked their own songs. The results John wanted would not be forthcoming, and he soured on the artifice towards getting to the 'nitty-gritty.'

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a 'Remembrance of Him,'
    that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison had said the group
    was always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon they wanted
    the opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their Cavern Club
    debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa 1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their equally
    outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a higher
    level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to
    stave off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A Second Time.
    " John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the key of
    e minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively. Beyond
    the vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for 'spectral'
    vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks, solos, and of
    course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to looking back
    to now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I explain it is the
    third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the instructor,
    thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by whatever
    Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song by him
    they absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the whimsically
    macabre nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded like
    what I had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that is not
    practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been properly '
    consumed' by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.
    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to guitar is
    immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics to guide
    through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were schoolmates,
    Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was when my own
    family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the incident
    occurred, since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite recording.

    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In the Get Back
    film they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any special
    chord. When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by acoustic guitar.
    And when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the relevant gospel
    passage.
    Thanks for all the info.

    Right. Lennon was proud of the feedback in 'I Feel Fine' even in the later interviews, pointing out that the Beatles incorporated feedback into a song before the Who or Hendrix.

    I reconstructed the feedback incident for "The Quality Of Mersey" (July 2020). It is true that Lennon felt most comfortable justifying his guitar work on a stylistic basis, so "You Can't Do That" was his Wilson Pickett impersonation, "Not A Second Time"
    was more Smokey Robinson, heavy metal formulated for "Ticket To Ride." The feedback trick relied on actually triggering a sympathetic reaction creating a synthetic audio loop, very difficult to accidentally use properly the first time in a creative
    context.

    The purpose was to get a certain sound, in that case an 'O' long vowel sound, as part of an intro. The song had some sophistication, beyond the subliminal guitar riff and solo elements, as an urbane contrast to the rustic presentation of "She's A Woman"
    on the flip side of the single. John and Paul had an ongoing contest to compose the A-side of the next hit single, and Lennon prevailed with a tune written around the fast-paced riff. There were cryptic utterances in the opening as well, and a single
    dog barking at the end. So subtly introducing more than people would have expected, with the majority of the iceberg still below the surfacing of consciousness.

    The dissonance and electronic distortion would be developed during the psychedelic era in some yet-unexplored ways, however precise further use of feedback specifically is not certain. Performances like McCartney's of "Taxman" and "Good Morning Good
    Morning" rival or surpass some of Hendrix's best electric guitar work in my opinion, with searing power under masterful control. There are parts of "Yer Blues" and "She's So Heavy" that are played in an extremely complex fashion, aside from more '
    instrumentally comprehensible' portions.

    Certainly they used the reverse technique more than feedback, abetted by George Martin, who was filmed in an early era explaining how sounds could be manipulated after they were recorded, saying this a cymbal, then asking have you heard it backwards.
    The way Martin edited the end of "Rain" indicated he not only comprehended what the reverse-lyrics were, but how to cleverly alter the message with a slight change of the backwards vocal track. John would mimic what his voice sounded like in the coda
    with that sound texture, while making sure to garble what the message really was into gibberish. Martin had done comedy records, he was familiar with sound effects as well as orchestral scoring.

    The participation of Martin was crucial to "Strawberry Fields Forever," combining two takes in different keys and tempos, by finding they had a convergence point with the speed changed on each. There are reversed cymbals on that track.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Fri Jul 22 22:50:17 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    They were very interested in what critics would say at first, seeming to be amused by how futile it would be to apply the mathematical observations of musicology to what they produced. You are referring to the 'Aeolian cadences' remark,
    which is gibberish to those untrained in the theory, so he was unaware whether it applied to his song thus his ridicule is irrelevant. Their level at "Not A Second Time" was interjecting 'Ave and Hallelu- yeah' into an empty measure, most critics wouldn'
    t notice that. Listening to a song for harmonic progression is different from hearing a guitar solo as an instrumental voice.

    The group collectively said they knew what they meant by their songs, eventually people would figure it out, but things take on millions of meanings in an incomprehensible process, and to elaborate further would be like hearing it their
    way for you. Lennon blurted out the 'subliminal' answer when Tom Snyder asked how such innocuous stuff as Beatles music could have so powerful a cultural effect.

    George Harrison saying they had thrown boulders into the waters and were waiting for a tsunami-like ripple does not seem like a non-serious expectation. Lennon chided the others for saying good things about their own songs, calling them '
    big-headed' about the tunes, prompting Harrison to protest that the interviewer merely asked if they liked their own songs. The results John wanted would not be forthcoming, and he soured on the artifice towards getting to the 'nitty-gritty.'

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a 'Remembrance of
    Him,' that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison had said the
    group was always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon they
    wanted the opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their
    Cavern Club debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa 1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their equally
    outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a
    higher level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to
    stave off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A Second
    Time." John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the key
    of e minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively. Beyond
    the vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for 'spectral'
    vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks, solos, and of
    course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to looking
    back to now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I explain it is
    the third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the instructor,
    thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by whatever
    Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song by him
    they absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the whimsically
    macabre nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded like
    what I had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that is not
    practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been properly '
    consumed' by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.
    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to guitar is
    immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics to guide
    through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were schoolmates,
    Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was when my
    own family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the incident
    occurred, since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite recording.


    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In the Get Back
    film they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any special
    chord. When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by acoustic guitar.
    And when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the relevant gospel
    passage.
    Thanks for all the info.

    Right. Lennon was proud of the feedback in 'I Feel Fine' even in the later interviews, pointing out that the Beatles incorporated feedback into a song before the Who or Hendrix.
    I reconstructed the feedback incident for "The Quality Of Mersey" (July 2020). It is true that Lennon felt most comfortable justifying his guitar work on a stylistic basis, so "You Can't Do That" was his Wilson Pickett impersonation, "Not A Second Time"
    was more Smokey Robinson, heavy metal formulated for "Ticket To Ride." The feedback trick relied on actually triggering a sympathetic reaction creating a synthetic audio loop, very difficult to accidentally use properly the first time in a creative
    context.

    The purpose was to get a certain sound, in that case an 'O' long vowel sound, as part of an intro. The song had some sophistication, beyond the subliminal guitar riff and solo elements, as an urbane contrast to the rustic presentation of "She's A Woman"
    on the flip side of the single. John and Paul had an ongoing contest to compose the A-side of the next hit single, and Lennon prevailed with a tune written around the fast-paced riff. There were cryptic utterances in the opening as well, and a single
    dog barking at the end. So subtly introducing more than people would have expected, with the majority of the iceberg still below the surfacing of consciousness.

    The dissonance and electronic distortion would be developed during the psychedelic era in some yet-unexplored ways, however precise further use of feedback specifically is not certain. Performances like McCartney's of "Taxman" and "Good Morning Good
    Morning" rival or surpass some of Hendrix's best electric guitar work in my opinion, with searing power under masterful control. There are parts of "Yer Blues" and "She's So Heavy" that are played in an extremely complex fashion, aside from more '
    instrumentally comprehensible' portions.

    Certainly they used the reverse technique more than feedback, abetted by George Martin, who was filmed in an early era explaining how sounds could be manipulated after they were recorded, saying this a cymbal, then asking have you heard it backwards.
    The way Martin edited the end of "Rain" indicated he not only comprehended what the reverse-lyrics were, but how to cleverly alter the message with a slight change of the backwards vocal track. John would mimic what his voice sounded like in the coda
    with that sound texture, while making sure to garble what the message really was into gibberish. Martin had done comedy records, he was familiar with sound effects as well as orchestral scoring.

    The participation of Martin was crucial to "Strawberry Fields Forever," combining two takes in different keys and tempos, by finding they had a convergence point with the speed changed on each. There are reversed cymbals on that track.

    The "Can You Take Me Back" brief song fragment bridging "Cry Baby Cry" and "Revolution 9" has a distinctly Native American sound. During the Apple era, there was someone tasked with casting the I Ching for important decisions; events were given surreal
    scheduled times like 5:16, seemingly derived from astrology.

    Looking at the triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn commencing past three weeks after Lennon's assassination, using the same method of recognizing significant dates, it functions as a review of his particular specific decisions that could be
    perceived negatively. This sequence began 31 December 1980, which in 1970 was the date Paul McCartney would file to legally dissolve The Beatles, since Lennon would not go public with his decision to end the group. These coincidences are on the
    controversial side, recalling dates from his life where others might have a problem, with nothing genuinely negative from him to merit that feeling.

    The second was on 4 March 1981, which in 1966 was the date the London Evening Standard article by Maureen Cleave was released, which stirred opposite controversies on either side of the Atlantic, because John was relentlessly honest without being
    explicitly demonstrative about the subliminal transference issue.

    The third union of Jupiter and Saturn in that cycle was on 24 July 1981, which in 1967 was the date of publication for an
    advertisement in The London Times where The Beatles added their names to a list denouncing cannabis prohibition.

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/1967/07/24/the-beatles-call-for-the-legalisation-of-marijuana/

    As for the lyrics of "Helter Skelter" implying the Moon-Stowaway theme, "miles above you" is only literally true in an outer space context, and the role-playing for this character may come from 'prior experience.' "Will you, won't you," "Do you don't
    you want me to love you," "Tell me, Tell me, Tell me the Answer": this is a binary thinker, a narcissist with a huge ego seeking to obsessively attach to a demagogic leader (or several), insisting to know who is for or against him personally, towards a
    total purge of detractors. McCartney role-plays the hybrid-demonic spirit banished to the barren Moon (yet rapidly returning to Earth), challenging a staid performing musician like himself -

    "Well, You MAY Be A Lover,
    But You AIN'T No Dancer!"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RJKellog@yahoo.com@21:1/5 to eagali...@gmail.com on Sat Jul 23 11:28:02 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    They were very interested in what critics would say at first, seeming to be amused by how futile it would be to apply the mathematical observations of musicology to what they produced. You are referring to the 'Aeolian cadences' remark,
    which is gibberish to those untrained in the theory, so he was unaware whether it applied to his song thus his ridicule is irrelevant. Their level at "Not A Second Time" was interjecting 'Ave and Hallelu- yeah' into an empty measure, most critics wouldn'
    t notice that. Listening to a song for harmonic progression is different from hearing a guitar solo as an instrumental voice.

    The group collectively said they knew what they meant by their songs, eventually people would figure it out, but things take on millions of meanings in an incomprehensible process, and to elaborate further would be like hearing it their
    way for you. Lennon blurted out the 'subliminal' answer when Tom Snyder asked how such innocuous stuff as Beatles music could have so powerful a cultural effect.

    George Harrison saying they had thrown boulders into the waters and were waiting for a tsunami-like ripple does not seem like a non-serious expectation. Lennon chided the others for saying good things about their own songs, calling them
    'big-headed' about the tunes, prompting Harrison to protest that the interviewer merely asked if they liked their own songs. The results John wanted would not be forthcoming, and he soured on the artifice towards getting to the 'nitty-gritty.'

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a 'Remembrance of
    Him,' that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison had said the
    group was always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon they
    wanted the opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their
    Cavern Club debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa 1980.


    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their equally
    outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a
    higher level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt to
    stave off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A Second
    Time." John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the
    key of e minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively.
    Beyond the vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for '
    spectral' vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks,
    solos, and of course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to looking
    back to now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I explain it is
    the third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the
    instructor, thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by
    whatever Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song by
    him they absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the whimsically
    macabre nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded
    like what I had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that
    is not practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been properly '
    consumed' by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.
    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to guitar
    is immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics to
    guide through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were schoolmates,
    Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was when my
    own family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the incident
    occurred, since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite
    recording.

    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In the Get
    Back film they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any special
    chord. When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by acoustic guitar.
    And when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the relevant gospel
    passage.
    Thanks for all the info.

    Right. Lennon was proud of the feedback in 'I Feel Fine' even in the later interviews, pointing out that the Beatles incorporated feedback into a song before the Who or Hendrix.
    I reconstructed the feedback incident for "The Quality Of Mersey" (July 2020). It is true that Lennon felt most comfortable justifying his guitar work on a stylistic basis, so "You Can't Do That" was his Wilson Pickett impersonation, "Not A Second
    Time" was more Smokey Robinson, heavy metal formulated for "Ticket To Ride." The feedback trick relied on actually triggering a sympathetic reaction creating a synthetic audio loop, very difficult to accidentally use properly the first time in a creative
    context.

    The purpose was to get a certain sound, in that case an 'O' long vowel sound, as part of an intro. The song had some sophistication, beyond the subliminal guitar riff and solo elements, as an urbane contrast to the rustic presentation of "She's A
    Woman" on the flip side of the single. John and Paul had an ongoing contest to compose the A-side of the next hit single, and Lennon prevailed with a tune written around the fast-paced riff. There were cryptic utterances in the opening as well, and a
    single dog barking at the end. So subtly introducing more than people would have expected, with the majority of the iceberg still below the surfacing of consciousness.

    The dissonance and electronic distortion would be developed during the psychedelic era in some yet-unexplored ways, however precise further use of feedback specifically is not certain. Performances like McCartney's of "Taxman" and "Good Morning Good
    Morning" rival or surpass some of Hendrix's best electric guitar work in my opinion, with searing power under masterful control. There are parts of "Yer Blues" and "She's So Heavy" that are played in an extremely complex fashion, aside from more '
    instrumentally comprehensible' portions.

    Certainly they used the reverse technique more than feedback, abetted by George Martin, who was filmed in an early era explaining how sounds could be manipulated after they were recorded, saying this a cymbal, then asking have you heard it backwards.
    The way Martin edited the end of "Rain" indicated he not only comprehended what the reverse-lyrics were, but how to cleverly alter the message with a slight change of the backwards vocal track. John would mimic what his voice sounded like in the coda
    with that sound texture, while making sure to garble what the message really was into gibberish. Martin had done comedy records, he was familiar with sound effects as well as orchestral scoring.

    The participation of Martin was crucial to "Strawberry Fields Forever," combining two takes in different keys and tempos, by finding they had a convergence point with the speed changed on each. There are reversed cymbals on that track.

    The "Can You Take Me Back" brief song fragment bridging "Cry Baby Cry" and "Revolution 9" has a distinctly Native American sound. During the Apple era, there was someone tasked with casting the I Ching for important decisions; events were given surreal
    scheduled times like 5:16, seemingly derived from astrology.

    Looking at the triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn commencing past three weeks after Lennon's assassination, using the same method of recognizing significant dates, it functions as a review of his particular specific decisions that could be
    perceived negatively. This sequence began 31 December 1980, which in 1970 was the date Paul McCartney would file to legally dissolve The Beatles, since Lennon would not go public with his decision to end the group. These coincidences are on the
    controversial side, recalling dates from his life where others might have a problem, with nothing genuinely negative from him to merit that feeling.

    The second was on 4 March 1981, which in 1966 was the date the London Evening Standard article by Maureen Cleave was released, which stirred opposite controversies on either side of the Atlantic, because John was relentlessly honest without being
    explicitly demonstrative about the subliminal transference issue.

    The third union of Jupiter and Saturn in that cycle was on 24 July 1981, which in 1967 was the date of publication for an
    advertisement in The London Times where The Beatles added their names to a list denouncing cannabis prohibition.

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/1967/07/24/the-beatles-call-for-the-legalisation-of-marijuana/

    As for the lyrics of "Helter Skelter" implying the Moon-Stowaway theme, "miles above you" is only literally true in an outer space context, and the role-playing for this character may come from 'prior experience.' "Will you, won't you," "Do you don't
    you want me to love you," "Tell me, Tell me, Tell me the Answer": this is a binary thinker, a narcissist with a huge ego seeking to obsessively attach to a demagogic leader (or several), insisting to know who is for or against him personally, towards a
    total purge of detractors. McCartney role-plays the hybrid-demonic spirit banished to the barren Moon (yet rapidly returning to Earth), challenging a staid performing musician like himself -

    "Well, You MAY Be A Lover,
    But You AIN'T No Dance
    I always assumed the 'Can you Take me back' piece was a sortt of surprise ending to 'Cry Baby Cry'..

    Whatever the intention, it's beautiful and mysterious.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to RJKe...@yahoo.com on Sat Jul 23 11:42:48 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    Did John want his fans to take the songs seriously? I'm not sure. Didn't he tell the homeless guy (I'm thinking of that footage in the "'Imagine: John Lennon' film ) that one interpretation of the lyrics was as good as any other?
    Also I feel that John would have been scornful of any serious musical analysis. Remember the reference to 'exotic birds'? I think he wanted people to like his music. Or at least buy it. But not take it too seriously.
    They were very interested in what critics would say at first, seeming to be amused by how futile it would be to apply the mathematical observations of musicology to what they produced. You are referring to the 'Aeolian cadences'
    remark, which is gibberish to those untrained in the theory, so he was unaware whether it applied to his song thus his ridicule is irrelevant. Their level at "Not A Second Time" was interjecting 'Ave and Hallelu- yeah' into an empty measure, most critics
    wouldn't notice that. Listening to a song for harmonic progression is different from hearing a guitar solo as an instrumental voice.

    The group collectively said they knew what they meant by their songs, eventually people would figure it out, but things take on millions of meanings in an incomprehensible process, and to elaborate further would be like hearing it
    their way for you. Lennon blurted out the 'subliminal' answer when Tom Snyder asked how such innocuous stuff as Beatles music could have so powerful a cultural effect.

    George Harrison saying they had thrown boulders into the waters and were waiting for a tsunami-like ripple does not seem like a non-serious expectation. Lennon chided the others for saying good things about their own songs, calling
    them 'big-headed' about the tunes, prompting Harrison to protest that the interviewer merely asked if they liked their own songs. The results John wanted would not be forthcoming, and he soured on the artifice towards getting to the 'nitty-gritty.'

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a 'Remembrance
    of Him,' that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison had said the
    group was always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon they
    wanted the opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their
    Cavern Club debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa
    1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their
    equally outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a
    higher level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt
    to stave off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A
    Second Time." John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the
    key of e minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively.
    Beyond the vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for '
    spectral' vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks,
    solos, and of course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to
    looking back to now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I
    explain it is the third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the
    instructor, thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by
    whatever Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song by
    him they absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the whimsically
    macabre nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded
    like what I had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that
    is not practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been properly
    'consumed' by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.
    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to guitar
    is immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics to
    guide through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were
    schoolmates, Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was when
    my own family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the
    incident occurred, since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite
    recording.

    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In the Get
    Back film they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any
    special chord. When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by acoustic
    guitar. And when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the relevant
    gospel passage.
    Thanks for all the info.

    Right. Lennon was proud of the feedback in 'I Feel Fine' even in the later interviews, pointing out that the Beatles incorporated feedback into a song before the Who or Hendrix.
    I reconstructed the feedback incident for "The Quality Of Mersey" (July 2020). It is true that Lennon felt most comfortable justifying his guitar work on a stylistic basis, so "You Can't Do That" was his Wilson Pickett impersonation, "Not A Second
    Time" was more Smokey Robinson, heavy metal formulated for "Ticket To Ride." The feedback trick relied on actually triggering a sympathetic reaction creating a synthetic audio loop, very difficult to accidentally use properly the first time in a creative
    context.

    The purpose was to get a certain sound, in that case an 'O' long vowel sound, as part of an intro. The song had some sophistication, beyond the subliminal guitar riff and solo elements, as an urbane contrast to the rustic presentation of "She's A
    Woman" on the flip side of the single. John and Paul had an ongoing contest to compose the A-side of the next hit single, and Lennon prevailed with a tune written around the fast-paced riff. There were cryptic utterances in the opening as well, and a
    single dog barking at the end. So subtly introducing more than people would have expected, with the majority of the iceberg still below the surfacing of consciousness.

    The dissonance and electronic distortion would be developed during the psychedelic era in some yet-unexplored ways, however precise further use of feedback specifically is not certain. Performances like McCartney's of "Taxman" and "Good Morning
    Good Morning" rival or surpass some of Hendrix's best electric guitar work in my opinion, with searing power under masterful control. There are parts of "Yer Blues" and "She's So Heavy" that are played in an extremely complex fashion, aside from more '
    instrumentally comprehensible' portions.

    Certainly they used the reverse technique more than feedback, abetted by George Martin, who was filmed in an early era explaining how sounds could be manipulated after they were recorded, saying this a cymbal, then asking have you heard it
    backwards. The way Martin edited the end of "Rain" indicated he not only comprehended what the reverse-lyrics were, but how to cleverly alter the message with a slight change of the backwards vocal track. John would mimic what his voice sounded like in
    the coda with that sound texture, while making sure to garble what the message really was into gibberish. Martin had done comedy records, he was familiar with sound effects as well as orchestral scoring.

    The participation of Martin was crucial to "Strawberry Fields Forever," combining two takes in different keys and tempos, by finding they had a convergence point with the speed changed on each. There are reversed cymbals on that track.

    The "Can You Take Me Back" brief song fragment bridging "Cry Baby Cry" and "Revolution 9" has a distinctly Native American sound. During the Apple era, there was someone tasked with casting the I Ching for important decisions; events were given
    surreal scheduled times like 5:16, seemingly derived from astrology.

    Looking at the triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn commencing past three weeks after Lennon's assassination, using the same method of recognizing significant dates, it functions as a review of his particular specific decisions that could be
    perceived negatively. This sequence began 31 December 1980, which in 1970 was the date Paul McCartney would file to legally dissolve The Beatles, since Lennon would not go public with his decision to end the group. These coincidences are on the
    controversial side, recalling dates from his life where others might have a problem, with nothing genuinely negative from him to merit that feeling.

    The second was on 4 March 1981, which in 1966 was the date the London Evening Standard article by Maureen Cleave was released, which stirred opposite controversies on either side of the Atlantic, because John was relentlessly honest without being
    explicitly demonstrative about the subliminal transference issue.

    The third union of Jupiter and Saturn in that cycle was on 24 July 1981, which in 1967 was the date of publication for an
    advertisement in The London Times where The Beatles added their names to a list denouncing cannabis prohibition.

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/1967/07/24/the-beatles-call-for-the-legalisation-of-marijuana/

    As for the lyrics of "Helter Skelter" implying the Moon-Stowaway theme, "miles above you" is only literally true in an outer space context, and the role-playing for this character may come from 'prior experience.' "Will you, won't you," "Do you don't
    you want me to love you," "Tell me, Tell me, Tell me the Answer": this is a binary thinker, a narcissist with a huge ego seeking to obsessively attach to a demagogic leader (or several), insisting to know who is for or against him personally, towards a
    total purge of detractors. McCartney role-plays the hybrid-demonic spirit banished to the barren Moon (yet rapidly returning to Earth), challenging a staid performing musician like himself -

    "Well, You MAY Be A Lover,
    But You AIN'T No Dance
    I always assumed the 'Can you Take me back' piece was a sortt of surprise ending to 'Cry Baby Cry'..

    Whatever the intention, it's beautiful and mysterious.

    It was a separate song from "Cry Baby Cry," and the snippet used was from a longer take that's been played on Carter's radio show frequently; apparently it was not copyrighted as an actual song, but a great piece to use there. My impression of "Cry Baby
    Cry" is a cross between a lullaby and a military march, with descending notes symbolizing bombs dropping from planes, with startling percussion for the explosive moment they reach the ground.

    The story of the banished Nephilim can be found in The Book of Jubilees, Chapter 10.

    http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/jubilees/10.htm

    << And in the third week of this jubilee the unclean demons began to lead astray the children of the sons of Noah, and to make to err and destroy them.
    And the sons of Noah came to Noah their father, and they told him concerning the demons which were leading astray and blinding and slaying his sons' sons.
    And he prayed before the Lord his God, and said:
    'God of the spirits of all flesh, who hast shown mercy unto me
    And hast saved me and my sons from the waters of the flood,
    And hast not caused me to perish as Thou didst the sons of perdition;

    For Thy grace has been great towards me,
    And great has been Thy mercy to my soul;

    Let Thy grace be lift up upon my sons,
    And let not wicked spirits rule over them
    Lest they should destroy them from the earth.

    But do Thou bless me and my sons, that we may increase and Multiply and replenish the earth.
    And Thou knowest how Thy Watchers, the fathers of these spirits, acted in my day: and as for these spirits which are living, imprison them and hold them fast in the place of condemnation, and let them not bring destruction on the sons of thy servant, my
    God; for these are malignant, and created in order to destroy.
    And let them not rule over the spirits of the living; for Thou alone canst exercise dominion over them. And let them not have power over the sons of the righteous from henceforth and for evermore.'

    And the Lord our God bade us to bind all.

    And the chief of the spirits, Mastêmâ, came and said: 'Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them harken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the
    power of my will on the sons of men; for these are for corruption and leading astray before my judgment, for great is the wickedness of the sons of men.'

    And He said: Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation.'

    And one of us He commanded that we should teach Noah all their medicines; for He knew that they would not walk in uprightness, nor strive in righteousness.
    And we did according to all His words: all the malignant evil ones we bound in the place of condemnation and a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan on the earth.
    And we explained to Noah all the medicines of their diseases, together with their seductions, how he might heal them with herbs of the earth.
    And Noah wrote down all things in a book as we instructed him concerning every kind of medicine. Thus the evil spirits were precluded from (hurting) the sons of Noah.
    And he gave all that he had written to Shem, his eldest son; for he loved him exceedingly above all his sons.
    And Noah slept with his fathers, and was buried on Mount Lubar in the land of Ararat.
    Nine hundred and fifty years he completed in his life, nineteen jubilees and two weeks and five years.
    And in his life on earth he excelled the children of men save Enoch because of the righteousness, wherein he was perfect. For Enoch's office was ordained for a testimony to the generations of the world, so that he should recount all the deeds of
    generation unto generation, till the day of judgment. >>

    The story of the Tower of Babel follows, in close agreement with the Genesis version. The story of the Nephilim being spawned was limited in King James' Genesis to the verse about the sons of God finding the daughters of Men fair.

    The conflict caused by Canaan, for refusing to move to the land that was his by casting lots, made it a land that was 'promised' to Abram's clan without officially possessing it, a serious rift in the Human Family that was exploited later.

    << And Ham and his sons went into the land which he was to occupy, which he acquired as his portion in the land of the south.
    And Canaan saw the land of Lebanon to the river of Egypt, that it was very good, and he went not into the land of his inheritance to the west (that is to) the sea, and he dwelt in the land of Lebanon, eastward and westward from the border of Jordan and
    from the border of the sea.
    And Ham, his father, and Cush and Mizraim his brothers said unto him: 'Thou hast settled in a land which is not thine, and which did not fall to us by lot: do not do so; for if thou dost do so, thou and thy sons will fall in the land and (be) accursed
    through sedition; for by sedition ye have settled, and by sedition will thy children fall, and thou shalt be rooted out for ever.
    Dwell not in the dwelling of Shem; for to Shem and to his sons did it come by their lot.
    Cursed art thou, and cursed shalt thou be beyond all the sons of Noah, by the curse by which we bound ourselves by an oath in the presence of the holy judge, and in the presence of Noah our father.'
    But he did not harken unto them, and dwelt in the land of Lebanon from Hamath to the entering of Egypt, he and his sons until this day.
    And for this reason that land is named Canaan. >>

    The name for the Nephilim chief, Mastema, means Hostility. While being confused with Satan, he is instead a powerful neutral angel tasked with testing the worthiness of created souls towards judgment of righteousness or iniquity. Passing his test is
    cause for delight; failure of his subjects to avert from his evil temptations infuriates him with the power to deliver divine vengeance. A quote attributed to him is:

    << "You humans don't need us angels to protect you 24 hours a day.
    You already have all the weapons to defeat evil.
    You have the Truth,
    The Hope,
    And above all you have the Love." >>

    https://gods-and-demons.fandom.com/wiki/Mastema

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to RJKe...@yahoo.com on Sat Jul 23 12:36:54 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    Did John want his fans to take the songs seriously? I'm not sure. Didn't he tell the homeless guy (I'm thinking of that footage in the "'Imagine: John Lennon' film ) that one interpretation of the lyrics was as good as any other?
    Also I feel that John would have been scornful of any serious musical analysis. Remember the reference to 'exotic birds'? I think he wanted people to like his music. Or at least buy it. But not take it too seriously.
    They were very interested in what critics would say at first, seeming to be amused by how futile it would be to apply the mathematical observations of musicology to what they produced. You are referring to the 'Aeolian cadences'
    remark, which is gibberish to those untrained in the theory, so he was unaware whether it applied to his song thus his ridicule is irrelevant. Their level at "Not A Second Time" was interjecting 'Ave and Hallelu- yeah' into an empty measure, most critics
    wouldn't notice that. Listening to a song for harmonic progression is different from hearing a guitar solo as an instrumental voice.

    The group collectively said they knew what they meant by their songs, eventually people would figure it out, but things take on millions of meanings in an incomprehensible process, and to elaborate further would be like hearing it
    their way for you. Lennon blurted out the 'subliminal' answer when Tom Snyder asked how such innocuous stuff as Beatles music could have so powerful a cultural effect.

    George Harrison saying they had thrown boulders into the waters and were waiting for a tsunami-like ripple does not seem like a non-serious expectation. Lennon chided the others for saying good things about their own songs, calling
    them 'big-headed' about the tunes, prompting Harrison to protest that the interviewer merely asked if they liked their own songs. The results John wanted would not be forthcoming, and he soured on the artifice towards getting to the 'nitty-gritty.'

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a 'Remembrance
    of Him,' that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison had said the
    group was always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon they
    wanted the opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their
    Cavern Club debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa
    1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their
    equally outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a
    higher level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt
    to stave off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A
    Second Time." John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in the
    key of e minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively.
    Beyond the vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for '
    spectral' vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks,
    solos, and of course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to
    looking back to now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I
    explain it is the third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the
    instructor, thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by
    whatever Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song by
    him they absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the whimsically
    macabre nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded
    like what I had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that
    is not practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been properly
    'consumed' by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.
    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to guitar
    is immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics to
    guide through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were
    schoolmates, Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was when
    my own family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the
    incident occurred, since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite
    recording.

    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In the Get
    Back film they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any
    special chord. When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by acoustic
    guitar. And when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the relevant
    gospel passage.
    Thanks for all the info.

    Right. Lennon was proud of the feedback in 'I Feel Fine' even in the later interviews, pointing out that the Beatles incorporated feedback into a song before the Who or Hendrix.
    I reconstructed the feedback incident for "The Quality Of Mersey" (July 2020). It is true that Lennon felt most comfortable justifying his guitar work on a stylistic basis, so "You Can't Do That" was his Wilson Pickett impersonation, "Not A Second
    Time" was more Smokey Robinson, heavy metal formulated for "Ticket To Ride." The feedback trick relied on actually triggering a sympathetic reaction creating a synthetic audio loop, very difficult to accidentally use properly the first time in a creative
    context.

    The purpose was to get a certain sound, in that case an 'O' long vowel sound, as part of an intro. The song had some sophistication, beyond the subliminal guitar riff and solo elements, as an urbane contrast to the rustic presentation of "She's A
    Woman" on the flip side of the single. John and Paul had an ongoing contest to compose the A-side of the next hit single, and Lennon prevailed with a tune written around the fast-paced riff. There were cryptic utterances in the opening as well, and a
    single dog barking at the end. So subtly introducing more than people would have expected, with the majority of the iceberg still below the surfacing of consciousness.

    The dissonance and electronic distortion would be developed during the psychedelic era in some yet-unexplored ways, however precise further use of feedback specifically is not certain. Performances like McCartney's of "Taxman" and "Good Morning
    Good Morning" rival or surpass some of Hendrix's best electric guitar work in my opinion, with searing power under masterful control. There are parts of "Yer Blues" and "She's So Heavy" that are played in an extremely complex fashion, aside from more '
    instrumentally comprehensible' portions.

    Certainly they used the reverse technique more than feedback, abetted by George Martin, who was filmed in an early era explaining how sounds could be manipulated after they were recorded, saying this a cymbal, then asking have you heard it
    backwards. The way Martin edited the end of "Rain" indicated he not only comprehended what the reverse-lyrics were, but how to cleverly alter the message with a slight change of the backwards vocal track. John would mimic what his voice sounded like in
    the coda with that sound texture, while making sure to garble what the message really was into gibberish. Martin had done comedy records, he was familiar with sound effects as well as orchestral scoring.

    The participation of Martin was crucial to "Strawberry Fields Forever," combining two takes in different keys and tempos, by finding they had a convergence point with the speed changed on each. There are reversed cymbals on that track.

    The "Can You Take Me Back" brief song fragment bridging "Cry Baby Cry" and "Revolution 9" has a distinctly Native American sound. During the Apple era, there was someone tasked with casting the I Ching for important decisions; events were given
    surreal scheduled times like 5:16, seemingly derived from astrology.

    Looking at the triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn commencing past three weeks after Lennon's assassination, using the same method of recognizing significant dates, it functions as a review of his particular specific decisions that could be
    perceived negatively. This sequence began 31 December 1980, which in 1970 was the date Paul McCartney would file to legally dissolve The Beatles, since Lennon would not go public with his decision to end the group. These coincidences are on the
    controversial side, recalling dates from his life where others might have a problem, with nothing genuinely negative from him to merit that feeling.

    The second was on 4 March 1981, which in 1966 was the date the London Evening Standard article by Maureen Cleave was released, which stirred opposite controversies on either side of the Atlantic, because John was relentlessly honest without being
    explicitly demonstrative about the subliminal transference issue.

    The third union of Jupiter and Saturn in that cycle was on 24 July 1981, which in 1967 was the date of publication for an
    advertisement in The London Times where The Beatles added their names to a list denouncing cannabis prohibition.

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/1967/07/24/the-beatles-call-for-the-legalisation-of-marijuana/

    As for the lyrics of "Helter Skelter" implying the Moon-Stowaway theme, "miles above you" is only literally true in an outer space context, and the role-playing for this character may come from 'prior experience.' "Will you, won't you," "Do you don't
    you want me to love you," "Tell me, Tell me, Tell me the Answer": this is a binary thinker, a narcissist with a huge ego seeking to obsessively attach to a demagogic leader (or several), insisting to know who is for or against him personally, towards a
    total purge of detractors. McCartney role-plays the hybrid-demonic spirit banished to the barren Moon (yet rapidly returning to Earth), challenging a staid performing musician like himself -

    "Well, You MAY Be A Lover,
    But You AIN'T No Dance
    I always assumed the 'Can you Take me back' piece was a sortt of surprise ending to 'Cry Baby Cry'..

    Whatever the intention, it's beautiful and mysterious.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNUF7wy9gpU

    That is the entire first take, the used portion is towards the end. The rhythm and rattling sounds distinctly Native American. They put on something like the Hopi Kachina Mask with that one. I remember listening to it with a high school friend who had
    a reaction that it was hypnotically inducing the state of 'going back,' a sense of primal return.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Sat Jul 23 14:50:12 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    That Lennon was not 'getting deep' about the songs should not be the take-away, but that he was suggesting we should. Sure, "It's Only Love" could be considered a weak effort from his point of view; but we respond to music
    without analyzing its subconscious import. The musical component of "Every Little Thing" resurfaced in the Get Back sessions, not because its message needed a reprise, but because of its haunting iconic quality. Sometimes the music and lyrics have close
    meanings, as with "The Inner Light," about the powerful Aura of Christ, with the coda music suggesting this illumination came
    e: John
    'From Within...
    From Within...
    From Within...'
    Did John want his fans to take the songs seriously? I'm not sure. Didn't he tell the homeless guy (I'm thinking of that footage in the "'Imagine: John Lennon' film ) that one interpretation of the lyrics was as good as any other?
    Also I feel that John would have been scornful of any serious musical analysis. Remember the reference to 'exotic birds'? I think he wanted people to like his music. Or at least buy it. But not take it too seriously.
    They were very interested in what critics would say at first, seeming to be amused by how futile it would be to apply the mathematical observations of musicology to what they produced. You are referring to the 'Aeolian cadences'
    remark, which is gibberish to those untrained in the theory, so he was unaware whether it applied to his song thus his ridicule is irrelevant. Their level at "Not A Second Time" was interjecting 'Ave and Hallelu- yeah' into an empty measure, most critics
    wouldn't notice that. Listening to a song for harmonic progression is different from hearing a guitar solo as an instrumental voice.

    The group collectively said they knew what they meant by their songs, eventually people would figure it out, but things take on millions of meanings in an incomprehensible process, and to elaborate further would be like hearing it
    their way for you. Lennon blurted out the 'subliminal' answer when Tom Snyder asked how such innocuous stuff as Beatles music could have so powerful a cultural effect.

    George Harrison saying they had thrown boulders into the waters and were waiting for a tsunami-like ripple does not seem like a non-serious expectation. Lennon chided the others for saying good things about their own songs, calling
    them 'big-headed' about the tunes, prompting Harrison to protest that the interviewer merely asked if they liked their own songs. The results John wanted would not be forthcoming, and he soured on the artifice towards getting to the 'nitty-gritty.'

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a 'Remembrance
    of Him,' that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison had said the
    group was always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon they
    wanted the opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their
    Cavern Club debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed circa
    1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their
    equally outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains a
    higher level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an attempt
    to stave off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A
    Second Time." John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in
    the key of e minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively.
    Beyond the vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for '
    spectral' vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks,
    solos, and of course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to
    looking back to now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I
    explain it is the third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the
    instructor, thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by
    whatever Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one song
    by him they absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the
    whimsically macabre nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it sounded
    like what I had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction, but that
    is not practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been
    properly 'consumed' by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.
    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to
    guitar is immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics
    to guide through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were
    schoolmates, Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was when
    my own family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the
    incident occurred, since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite
    recording.

    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In the
    Get Back film they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any
    special chord. When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by acoustic
    guitar. And when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the relevant
    gospel passage.
    Thanks for all the info.

    Right. Lennon was proud of the feedback in 'I Feel Fine' even in the later interviews, pointing out that the Beatles incorporated feedback into a song before the Who or Hendrix.
    I reconstructed the feedback incident for "The Quality Of Mersey" (July 2020). It is true that Lennon felt most comfortable justifying his guitar work on a stylistic basis, so "You Can't Do That" was his Wilson Pickett impersonation, "Not A
    Second Time" was more Smokey Robinson, heavy metal formulated for "Ticket To Ride." The feedback trick relied on actually triggering a sympathetic reaction creating a synthetic audio loop, very difficult to accidentally use properly the first time in a
    creative context.

    The purpose was to get a certain sound, in that case an 'O' long vowel sound, as part of an intro. The song had some sophistication, beyond the subliminal guitar riff and solo elements, as an urbane contrast to the rustic presentation of "She's A
    Woman" on the flip side of the single. John and Paul had an ongoing contest to compose the A-side of the next hit single, and Lennon prevailed with a tune written around the fast-paced riff. There were cryptic utterances in the opening as well, and a
    single dog barking at the end. So subtly introducing more than people would have expected, with the majority of the iceberg still below the surfacing of consciousness.

    The dissonance and electronic distortion would be developed during the psychedelic era in some yet-unexplored ways, however precise further use of feedback specifically is not certain. Performances like McCartney's of "Taxman" and "Good Morning
    Good Morning" rival or surpass some of Hendrix's best electric guitar work in my opinion, with searing power under masterful control. There are parts of "Yer Blues" and "She's So Heavy" that are played in an extremely complex fashion, aside from more '
    instrumentally comprehensible' portions.

    Certainly they used the reverse technique more than feedback, abetted by George Martin, who was filmed in an early era explaining how sounds could be manipulated after they were recorded, saying this a cymbal, then asking have you heard it
    backwards. The way Martin edited the end of "Rain" indicated he not only comprehended what the reverse-lyrics were, but how to cleverly alter the message with a slight change of the backwards vocal track. John would mimic what his voice sounded like in
    the coda with that sound texture, while making sure to garble what the message really was into gibberish. Martin had done comedy records, he was familiar with sound effects as well as orchestral scoring.

    The participation of Martin was crucial to "Strawberry Fields Forever," combining two takes in different keys and tempos, by finding they had a convergence point with the speed changed on each. There are reversed cymbals on that track.

    The "Can You Take Me Back" brief song fragment bridging "Cry Baby Cry" and "Revolution 9" has a distinctly Native American sound. During the Apple era, there was someone tasked with casting the I Ching for important decisions; events were given
    surreal scheduled times like 5:16, seemingly derived from astrology.

    Looking at the triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn commencing past three weeks after Lennon's assassination, using the same method of recognizing significant dates, it functions as a review of his particular specific decisions that could be
    perceived negatively. This sequence began 31 December 1980, which in 1970 was the date Paul McCartney would file to legally dissolve The Beatles, since Lennon would not go public with his decision to end the group. These coincidences are on the
    controversial side, recalling dates from his life where others might have a problem, with nothing genuinely negative from him to merit that feeling.

    The second was on 4 March 1981, which in 1966 was the date the London Evening Standard article by Maureen Cleave was released, which stirred opposite controversies on either side of the Atlantic, because John was relentlessly honest without being
    explicitly demonstrative about the subliminal transference issue.

    The third union of Jupiter and Saturn in that cycle was on 24 July 1981, which in 1967 was the date of publication for an
    advertisement in The London Times where The Beatles added their names to a list denouncing cannabis prohibition.

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/1967/07/24/the-beatles-call-for-the-legalisation-of-marijuana/

    As for the lyrics of "Helter Skelter" implying the Moon-Stowaway theme, "miles above you" is only literally true in an outer space context, and the role-playing for this character may come from 'prior experience.' "Will you, won't you," "Do you don'
    t you want me to love you," "Tell me, Tell me, Tell me the Answer": this is a binary thinker, a narcissist with a huge ego seeking to obsessively attach to a demagogic leader (or several), insisting to know who is for or against him personally, towards a
    total purge of detractors. McCartney role-plays the hybrid-demonic spirit banished to the barren Moon (yet rapidly returning to Earth), challenging a staid performing musician like himself -

    "Well, You MAY Be A Lover,
    But You AIN'T No Dance
    I always assumed the 'Can you Take me back' piece was a sortt of surprise ending to 'Cry Baby Cry'..

    Whatever the intention, it's beautiful and mysterious.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNUF7wy9gpU

    That is the entire first take, the used portion is towards the end. The rhythm and rattling sounds distinctly Native American. They put on something like the Hopi Kachina Mask with that one. I remember listening to it with a high school friend who had
    a reaction that it was hypnotically inducing the state of 'going back,' a sense of primal return.

    The splashdown of the Apollo 11 crew on 24 July 1969 was very close to the 25 July 1969 date, when after being told to merely frighten Gary Hinman out of a supposed $20,000 inheritance, Bobby Beausoleil witnessed as Manson suddenly arrived with a samurai
    sword, and sliced off Hinman's ear with it. Beausoleil had never seen this extreme violence before and asked why, getting a chilling reply: "To show you how to be a man!"

    Others were left to stitch up Hinman with dental floss, ultimately only to torture him until he was killed on 27 July, while reciting a Buddhist prayer.

    So there was a sudden super-malevolent change in the unstable criminal Manson that can be traced very close to the atmospheric re-entry of the Apollo 11 mission spacecraft.

    The Hopi prophecies are common knowledge, with the Moon landing as an ominous prospect.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Sun Jul 24 05:21:23 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    But anyone feeling they could understand his music without doing as he advised, breaking down one's mental barriers to actually experience the sound-crafting he had achieved, allowing the instrumental factor to subliminally
    bridge the lyrical ideas into new clarity, could not attain that level of appreciation even with a series of explanations. It was the sort of cluelessness that frustrated him, because he could not walk people through his thought processes: to do so would
    be an admission his entire effort was a failure nobody could get on their own. But he and his group were repackaging the Christian story in an audio format nobody was expecting, or could easily recognize. He realized the job was done well enough to put
    the responsibility elsewhere.

    That Lennon was not 'getting deep' about the songs should not be the take-away, but that he was suggesting we should. Sure, "It's Only Love" could be considered a weak effort from his point of view; but we respond to music
    without analyzing its subconscious import. The musical component of "Every Little Thing" resurfaced in the Get Back sessions, not because its message needed a reprise, but because of its haunting iconic quality. Sometimes the music and lyrics have close
    meanings, as with "The Inner Light," about the powerful Aura of Christ, with the coda music suggesting this illumination came
    e: John
    'From Within...
    From Within...
    From Within...'
    Did John want his fans to take the songs seriously? I'm not sure. Didn't he tell the homeless guy (I'm thinking of that footage in the "'Imagine: John Lennon' film ) that one interpretation of the lyrics was as good as any other?
    Also I feel that John would have been scornful of any serious musical analysis. Remember the reference to 'exotic birds'? I think he wanted people to like his music. Or at least buy it. But not take it too seriously.
    They were very interested in what critics would say at first, seeming to be amused by how futile it would be to apply the mathematical observations of musicology to what they produced. You are referring to the 'Aeolian cadences'
    remark, which is gibberish to those untrained in the theory, so he was unaware whether it applied to his song thus his ridicule is irrelevant. Their level at "Not A Second Time" was interjecting 'Ave and Hallelu- yeah' into an empty measure, most critics
    wouldn't notice that. Listening to a song for harmonic progression is different from hearing a guitar solo as an instrumental voice.

    The group collectively said they knew what they meant by their songs, eventually people would figure it out, but things take on millions of meanings in an incomprehensible process, and to elaborate further would be like hearing it
    their way for you. Lennon blurted out the 'subliminal' answer when Tom Snyder asked how such innocuous stuff as Beatles music could have so powerful a cultural effect.

    George Harrison saying they had thrown boulders into the waters and were waiting for a tsunami-like ripple does not seem like a non-serious expectation. Lennon chided the others for saying good things about their own songs,
    calling them 'big-headed' about the tunes, prompting Harrison to protest that the interviewer merely asked if they liked their own songs. The results John wanted would not be forthcoming, and he soured on the artifice towards getting to the 'nitty-gritty.
    '

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a '
    Remembrance of Him,' that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison
    had said the group was always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon
    they wanted the opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their
    Cavern Club debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed
    circa 1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their
    equally outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever attains
    a higher level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an
    attempt to stave off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A
    Second Time." John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be in
    the key of e minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use intuitively.
    Beyond the vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.

    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for '
    spectral' vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks,
    solos, and of course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to
    looking back to now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I
    explain it is the third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the
    instructor, thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by
    whatever Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one
    song by him they absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the
    whimsically macabre nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it
    sounded like what I had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction,
    but that is not practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been
    properly 'consumed' by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.
    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to
    guitar is immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics
    to guide through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were
    schoolmates, Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's
    habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was
    when my own family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the
    incident occurred, since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite
    recording.

    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In the
    Get Back film they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any
    special chord. When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by acoustic
    guitar. And when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the relevant
    gospel passage.
    Thanks for all the info.

    Right. Lennon was proud of the feedback in 'I Feel Fine' even in the later interviews, pointing out that the Beatles incorporated feedback into a song before the Who or Hendrix.
    I reconstructed the feedback incident for "The Quality Of Mersey" (July 2020). It is true that Lennon felt most comfortable justifying his guitar work on a stylistic basis, so "You Can't Do That" was his Wilson Pickett impersonation, "Not A
    Second Time" was more Smokey Robinson, heavy metal formulated for "Ticket To Ride." The feedback trick relied on actually triggering a sympathetic reaction creating a synthetic audio loop, very difficult to accidentally use properly the first time in a
    creative context.

    The purpose was to get a certain sound, in that case an 'O' long vowel sound, as part of an intro. The song had some sophistication, beyond the subliminal guitar riff and solo elements, as an urbane contrast to the rustic presentation of "She's
    A Woman" on the flip side of the single. John and Paul had an ongoing contest to compose the A-side of the next hit single, and Lennon prevailed with a tune written around the fast-paced riff. There were cryptic utterances in the opening as well, and a
    single dog barking at the end. So subtly introducing more than people would have expected, with the majority of the iceberg still below the surfacing of consciousness.

    The dissonance and electronic distortion would be developed during the psychedelic era in some yet-unexplored ways, however precise further use of feedback specifically is not certain. Performances like McCartney's of "Taxman" and "Good Morning
    Good Morning" rival or surpass some of Hendrix's best electric guitar work in my opinion, with searing power under masterful control. There are parts of "Yer Blues" and "She's So Heavy" that are played in an extremely complex fashion, aside from more '
    instrumentally comprehensible' portions.

    Certainly they used the reverse technique more than feedback, abetted by George Martin, who was filmed in an early era explaining how sounds could be manipulated after they were recorded, saying this a cymbal, then asking have you heard it
    backwards. The way Martin edited the end of "Rain" indicated he not only comprehended what the reverse-lyrics were, but how to cleverly alter the message with a slight change of the backwards vocal track. John would mimic what his voice sounded like in
    the coda with that sound texture, while making sure to garble what the message really was into gibberish. Martin had done comedy records, he was familiar with sound effects as well as orchestral scoring.

    The participation of Martin was crucial to "Strawberry Fields Forever," combining two takes in different keys and tempos, by finding they had a convergence point with the speed changed on each. There are reversed cymbals on that track.

    The "Can You Take Me Back" brief song fragment bridging "Cry Baby Cry" and "Revolution 9" has a distinctly Native American sound. During the Apple era, there was someone tasked with casting the I Ching for important decisions; events were given
    surreal scheduled times like 5:16, seemingly derived from astrology.

    Looking at the triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn commencing past three weeks after Lennon's assassination, using the same method of recognizing significant dates, it functions as a review of his particular specific decisions that could be
    perceived negatively. This sequence began 31 December 1980, which in 1970 was the date Paul McCartney would file to legally dissolve The Beatles, since Lennon would not go public with his decision to end the group. These coincidences are on the
    controversial side, recalling dates from his life where others might have a problem, with nothing genuinely negative from him to merit that feeling.

    The second was on 4 March 1981, which in 1966 was the date the London Evening Standard article by Maureen Cleave was released, which stirred opposite controversies on either side of the Atlantic, because John was relentlessly honest without being
    explicitly demonstrative about the subliminal transference issue.

    The third union of Jupiter and Saturn in that cycle was on 24 July 1981, which in 1967 was the date of publication for an
    advertisement in The London Times where The Beatles added their names to a list denouncing cannabis prohibition.

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/1967/07/24/the-beatles-call-for-the-legalisation-of-marijuana/

    As for the lyrics of "Helter Skelter" implying the Moon-Stowaway theme, "miles above you" is only literally true in an outer space context, and the role-playing for this character may come from 'prior experience.' "Will you, won't you," "Do you
    don't you want me to love you," "Tell me, Tell me, Tell me the Answer": this is a binary thinker, a narcissist with a huge ego seeking to obsessively attach to a demagogic leader (or several), insisting to know who is for or against him personally,
    towards a total purge of detractors. McCartney role-plays the hybrid-demonic spirit banished to the barren Moon (yet rapidly returning to Earth), challenging a staid performing musician like himself -

    "Well, You MAY Be A Lover,
    But You AIN'T No Dance
    I always assumed the 'Can you Take me back' piece was a sortt of surprise ending to 'Cry Baby Cry'..

    Whatever the intention, it's beautiful and mysterious.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNUF7wy9gpU

    That is the entire first take, the used portion is towards the end. The rhythm and rattling sounds distinctly Native American. They put on something like the Hopi Kachina Mask with that one. I remember listening to it with a high school friend who
    had a reaction that it was hypnotically inducing the state of 'going back,' a sense of primal return.
    The splashdown of the Apollo 11 crew on 24 July 1969 was very close to the 25 July 1969 date, when after being told to merely frighten Gary Hinman out of a supposed $20,000 inheritance, Bobby Beausoleil witnessed as Manson suddenly arrived with a
    samurai sword, and sliced off Hinman's ear with it. Beausoleil had never seen this extreme violence before and asked why, getting a chilling reply: "To show you how to be a man!"

    Others were left to stitch up Hinman with dental floss, ultimately only to torture him until he was killed on 27 July, while reciting a Buddhist prayer.

    So there was a sudden super-malevolent change in the unstable criminal Manson that can be traced very close to the atmospheric re-entry of the Apollo 11 mission spacecraft.

    The Hopi prophecies are common knowledge, with the Moon landing as an ominous prospect.

    The Blue Moon of 30 April 1961 was the harbinger for President John Kennedy's 25 May 1961 speech to a joint session of Congress where he prioritized landing on the Moon as a national goal. It could have been that the remnant Nephilim contingent here
    knew humans had become technologically capable of retrieving their ninety percent cohort trapped on the Moon, and impressed a false urgency for the prestige, inducing people to forget there was no discernible practical advantage.

    There is also a probable reason that the new demonic reinforcements would immediately focus on Manson: what occurred with the infamous killings was a twisted karmic replay of The Slaughter Of The Innocents mass-killing scenario, suggesting he was a
    reincarnation of King Herod who commanded it. There is a loop in "Revolution 9" that names Herod, which was not perceived consciously, apparently even when repeated. The wicked spirits seek to use known enemies of Christ (in reincarnations unknown to
    humans), amplifying their inclinations towards iniquity to insane levels.

    There was a strange coincidence with the opening of the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland, during the period of the Tate and La Bianca murders --

    https://www.mouseplanet.com/12973/Disneyland_Haunted_Mansion_1969#:~:text=The%20mansion%20officially%20opened%20as,of%20Disneyland%20guests%20experienced%20it.

    << Employee previews of the Mansion held on the nights of August 7 and 8 ran so smoothly that it was followed by unannounced "soft" openings on August 9 and 10, where limited numbers of park guests were allowed to ride.

    The exterior of the Haunted Mansion was merely a shell -- requiring guests to enter the "stretching room."

    A "Midnight" Press Event was held on the evening of August 11 from 10:30 pm to midnight. Fifty members of the press were given a special press package upon their arrival at the park that included a "Press Ghost" pass attached to a small glow-in-the-dark
    skull (a "skeleton key") which would be worn throughout the evening. They began the late night by being wined and dined at Club 33 and then Disneyland Ambassador Shari Bescos escorted them to the attraction.

    The mansion officially opened as advertised in the newspapers and the park to all guests the morning of August 12, 1969. However, today, the Walt Disney Company claims that August 9 was the real opening of the attraction since that was the first time
    that a handful of Disneyland guests experienced it.

    Eerily, actress Sharon Tate was murdered along with others early Saturday morning, August 9, 1969 by the disciples of Charles Manson, and that event overshadowed all other news that weekend.

    While today, we just accept the Haunted Mansion as one of the iconic Disneyland attractions, it was quite a challenge getting to that official opening of the "Phantom Phantasy" as early Disney publicity called it in 1969.

    While Walt reviewed many early concepts and previewed elements of the attraction on a 1965 episode entitled "Disneyland's Tenth Anniversary" on his weekly television show The Wonderful World of Color, he never saw the completed show and it was the first
    major Disney attraction to open without the direct supervision of Walt Disney.

    Associated Press writer Bob Thomas who would later author an acclaimed biography of Walt Disney wrote on August 19, 1969 for the San Diego Evening Tribune newspaper: "Many times I listened to [Walt Disney] spin ghostly tales he planned to dramatize in a
    Haunted Mansion at the Anaheim park. The project went through many states… but Walt was never satisfied with the illusions, and he died before his dream could be realized." >>

    There was about a decade of planning for the dark ride, its completion synchronized so that at the time the actual 'Stowaway from Moon Prison' scenario was occurring, such an insidious notion was also being satirized as family fun at the foremost
    amusement park: the finale of the ride is a caution to be wary of ghosts that are hitchhiking to follow patrons home. Then the 'doom buggies' slide past a row of mirrors, where various luminous ghoulish characters can be seen with patrons in the
    reflection.

    The August 1969 sequence implies a secret pageant having been smoothly coordinated by patiently malevolent forces intending an eventual consummation of humanity with its most sinister historic impulses, avoiding the path of Christian Salvation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RJKellog@yahoo.com@21:1/5 to eagali...@gmail.com on Mon Jul 25 05:45:08 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    But anyone feeling they could understand his music without doing as he advised, breaking down one's mental barriers to actually experience the sound-crafting he had achieved, allowing the instrumental factor to subliminally
    bridge the lyrical ideas into new clarity, could not attain that level of appreciation even with a series of explanations. It was the sort of cluelessness that frustrated him, because he could not walk people through his thought processes: to do so would
    be an admission his entire effort was a failure nobody could get on their own. But he and his group were repackaging the Christian story in an audio format nobody was expecting, or could easily recognize. He realized the job was done well enough to put
    the responsibility elsewhere.

    That Lennon was not 'getting deep' about the songs should not be the take-away, but that he was suggesting we should. Sure, "It's Only Love" could be considered a weak effort from his point of view; but we respond to music
    without analyzing its subconscious import. The musical component of "Every Little Thing" resurfaced in the Get Back sessions, not because its message needed a reprise, but because of its haunting iconic quality. Sometimes the music and lyrics have close
    meanings, as with "The Inner Light," about the powerful Aura of Christ, with the coda music suggesting this illumination came
    e: John
    'From Within...
    From Within...
    From Within...'
    Did John want his fans to take the songs seriously? I'm not sure. Didn't he tell the homeless guy (I'm thinking of that footage in the "'Imagine: John Lennon' film ) that one interpretation of the lyrics was as good as any
    other? Also I feel that John would have been scornful of any serious musical analysis. Remember the reference to 'exotic birds'? I think he wanted people to like his music. Or at least buy it. But not take it too seriously.
    They were very interested in what critics would say at first, seeming to be amused by how futile it would be to apply the mathematical observations of musicology to what they produced. You are referring to the 'Aeolian cadences'
    remark, which is gibberish to those untrained in the theory, so he was unaware whether it applied to his song thus his ridicule is irrelevant. Their level at "Not A Second Time" was interjecting 'Ave and Hallelu- yeah' into an empty measure, most critics
    wouldn't notice that. Listening to a song for harmonic progression is different from hearing a guitar solo as an instrumental voice.

    The group collectively said they knew what they meant by their songs, eventually people would figure it out, but things take on millions of meanings in an incomprehensible process, and to elaborate further would be like hearing
    it their way for you. Lennon blurted out the 'subliminal' answer when Tom Snyder asked how such innocuous stuff as Beatles music could have so powerful a cultural effect.

    George Harrison saying they had thrown boulders into the waters and were waiting for a tsunami-like ripple does not seem like a non-serious expectation. Lennon chided the others for saying good things about their own songs,
    calling them 'big-headed' about the tunes, prompting Harrison to protest that the interviewer merely asked if they liked their own songs. The results John wanted would not be forthcoming, and he soured on the artifice towards getting to the 'nitty-gritty.
    '

    John seemed to believe in the power of rock and roll through The Beatles to advance Christ's real agenda, until the project was completed without the conscious acknowledgment: it was the message in the music together, a '
    Remembrance of Him,' that could change things with avant-garde aural communication. But with transference the reaction was 'Who Needs HIM When We Have YOU?!' So John lashed out at Paul for 'granny music,' faced with a problem he could not fix. Harrison
    had said the group was always about various genres, not one type of music - it is the message that mattered, the mode was to create appeal.

    Another story that has been told repeatedly on Carter's radio show is how Jesus attended a Beatles recording session.

    McCartney had a visitor at his home claiming to be Jesus, Paul invited him to the session for "Fixing A Hole" at Regent Studios (not EMI), thinking he was a strung-out hippie. The session progressed to final playback, whereupon
    they wanted the opinion of 'Jesus' - but he was not seen again, by anyone, supposedly vanished from the studio without exiting. That was 9 February 1967, three years after their Ed Sullivan debut (when I first saw them), which was three years after their
    Cavern Club debut (switched from booking jazz bands). A total solar eclipse darkened Europe within a week of the 9 February 1961 Cavern debut.

    John was born during the time of a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, which is extremely rare and signifies major social change - a previous instance was 6 BCE, associated with The Nativity. A similar condition existed
    circa 1980.

    The three dates of the circa 1940 conjunctions would take on significance later.

    August 8, 1940 at 14 degrees 27 minutes Taurus: 8 August 1969 was the date the "Abbey Road" cover photograph was taken.

    October 20, 1940 at 12 degrees 28 minutes Taurus, both Jupiter and Saturn in retrograde - this was eleven days after the birth of John Lennon: 20 October 1969 was the release date of John and Yoko's "Wedding Album."

    February 15, 1941 at 9 degrees 7 minutes Taurus: February 15, 1964 was the date The Beatles reached number one in the US album charts for "Meet The Beatles."

    There is no omniscient personage beyond the Godhead, servants would play roles with relatively limited knowledge. Shakespeare warned us in "Macbeth" that outlandish prophecies should not be dismissed as impossible, because their
    equally outlandish fulfillments are inevitable if the augury is genuine.

    Any Power that can orchestrate human events on a celestial schedule could also add into the mix foretelling whatever reactions are to manifest, in a pre-Judgment that is both perfectly fair and absolutely accurate. Whoever
    attains a higher level of insight would be consequently more accountable than when they were uninformed.

    The resistance to the Beatle-Christ realization is motivated by the subconscious knowledge it would manifest The Great Mourning that precedes The Uplifting of the Second Coming Messiah, so persisting in that resistance is an
    attempt to stave off Salvation Itself, in favor of Oblivion.
    In my 2011 book "Not Full So Black" from page 100 this particular William Mann review episode is recounted - summarizing excerpts:

    "I can't help having a quiet giggle when straight-faced critics start feeding all sorts of hidden meanings into the stuff we write" was a quote, while Lennon got the song wrong, thinking it was "It Won't Be Long" instead of "Not A
    Second Time." John wavered between insulting Mann with "He uses a whole lot of musical terminology, and he's a twit," and being grateful with "He made us acceptable to intellectuals - it worked, and we were flattered."

    Probably for the song in question John's inspiration was the style of Smokey Robinson. Quoted passage:

    << The Aeolian observation regards a song that is in a major key resolving on the VI chord, the sixth harmonic step from the tonic; it has further been noted the song appears in G Major, while the bridge-like portion seems to be
    in the key of e minor, the vi chord in its minor mode. >>

    There is nothing about the musicology, or lack thereof, that impacts the subliminal import of the song: an Aeolian cadence is merely a categorization based on a specific harmonic progression, which Lennon happened to use
    intuitively. Beyond the vocal twist, there is a piano solo by George Martin that is thematic predicate to the half-speed guitar solo of "A Hard Day's Night" - restatement of similar ideas presented on a different instrument is a completely new experience.


    It was a tremendous feat for producer George Martin to include many double-tracked vocals while still using twin-track mono on their second album. John joked they nearly double-tracked themselves off the record, knowing it was for
    'spectral' vocal-texture effect. But a quote like "It was just chords, like any other chords" implies it was never the chords, or even the beat, that was the dominant focus: those were part of the rhythm track structure for the intros, outros, hooks,
    solos, and of course riffs.
    'They're just chords, like any other chords,' eh? It's a classic John (in interview mode) type of line.

    But was that his attitude while forming and recording those chords? He'll, no! Otherwise why would there be so much innovation in the band's music?

    John just liked to be irreverent in public
    It is a strange comment from a musician, they had sought out people who knew special chords in the early days. The chords played a significant role in "Things We Said Today": McCartney called it "future nostalgia," looking forward to
    looking back to now, "which quite a good trick. It has interesting chords. It goes C, F, which is all normal, the normal thing might be going to F minor, but to go to B-flat was quite good. It was a sophisticated little tune." During the analysis I
    explain it is the third phrase of the verses on the lyric "Someday" where the 'interesting chords' appear, before the fourth phrase returns to more familiar territory.

    John was nicknamed 'The Weird Beatle' by the press, undercutting pretentiousness was his hallmark. When a fellow art student was getting praise for abstract art, John completed a roomful of canvases overnight in a similar style: the
    instructor, thinking it was the work of his pet pupil, immediately praised the new artwork - until learning the identity of the actual artist. So even if an academic type were correct, Lennon would tend to challenge them. He was obviously overwhelmed by
    whatever Allen Klein had said about his group.

    In a college auditorium class, a young woman sat next to me and struck up a unsolicited conversation about how much she hated John Lennon. He was a polarizing figure. But I think even people who actively dislike him have a least one
    song by him they absolutely love. People who otherwise are disinterested in The Beatles have told me their exceptions: the altruistic concept of "All You Need Is Love"; the elegiac tune "In My Life"; the danceable rhythm of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da"; the
    whimsically macabre nature of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," and so on.

    I had the experience of playing "Day Tripper" while showing my transcriptions to a now-late uncle who would go to Rome for the priesthood - the reaction was typically eyes widening and jaw dropping, which he exhibited, agreeing it
    sounded like what I had written. I have played "Here Comes The Sun" for a blind woman near death, and seen a look of delight on her face. I wish I could privately enlighten everyone in a way that is personal to them, and observe the physical reaction,
    but that is not practical.

    There is a line in "Nobody Told Me" where John sings, "They're starving back in China, so finish what you've got" - I believe that was his way of saying The Beatles put a lot on our plate collectively, very little of which has been
    properly 'consumed' by adequate comprehension. We might presume Lennon also inquired about Ono's natal chart, and knew that their Saturn situations were a perfect match: he might have acknowledged that in his song "Woman" with the line,

    "After all,
    It is written in the stars"
    Who did they turn to for knowledge of chords, if you don't mind my asking? I know that McCartney knew more than Lennon when they met. And supposedly George knew more than Paul in the very beginning.

    I read or heard that John didn't even know how to tune his guitar until he met Paul.
    I was recalling an anecdote about John and Paul traveling to meet such a person, not sure if that story is related to overhearing a drummer who would be used for awhile. John's mother Julia knew banjo chords, so how those were adapted to
    guitar is immaterial: playing by ear, musicians can find the sounds they want, chords are note combinations that have harmonious resonance which can be learnt. In the Get Back film Paul especially can be seen singing the chord letters rather than lyrics
    to guide through the tune.

    McCartney did impress Lennon at their first meeting with knowing how to tune the guitar and playing through songs knowing all the words, but Lennon had to teach himself using a mirror, since Paul was left-handed. Paul and George were
    schoolmates, Harrison was interested in the guitar from an early age: so Paul tried to bring George in because of his instrumental prowess, but Lennon was reluctant at first because of George being so young at the time.

    As his brother said, Paul's interest in the guitar began when his mother died from cancer (31 October 1956), since she had bought him one he had not used. Mary McCartney was a midwife who wore an official uniform that resembled a nun's
    habit.

    Aunt Mimi's husband, George Toogood Smith, died of a liver hemorrhage in early June 1955. George Smith had given John his first harmonica. Lennon gave some of the clothes belonging to his late uncle to Harrison. (The post-1955 period was
    when my own family dynamic as one of three siblings was happening.)

    Julia Lennon was the group's first musical director, following their bookings enthusiastically. On 15 July 1958, an off-duty drunk-driving policeman struck her in view of one of John's friends - Lennon was never told the exact place the
    incident occurred, since he was known to pass it often.

    During the Garabandal 'Night of Screams' where the young girl visionaries were being shown something too horrific to describe, John was getting backstage advice on how to play the harmonica from someone who had impressed him on a favorite
    recording.

    Chords are mathematical inventions, The Beatles were interested in sound-crafting, beyond normal instrumentation: the feedback opening of "I Feel Fine" was a discovery they experimented with before trying to pass off as spontaneous. In
    the Get Back film they become intrigued with a small electronic device that could be manipulated to produce various sounds, and George even attempts to play his own nose.

    There is also the piano work, at first done by George Martin, then with McCartney flourishing, as when he provided incredible electric guitar solos for the others. That astonishing array of talent from McCartney is more prominent than any
    special chord. When critics called Sgt Pepper an album by producer Martin, Paul was quick to correct, "It's OUR album."

    In "A Day In The Life," McCartney's section in the middle has the piano, seeming to add some ragtime tension for the hustle-and-bustle of reality - yet it is another subliminal bit, just like the expressive drum fills augmented by
    acoustic guitar. And when that final Chord is struck using three pianos, it still could only have a single-syllable transcription, with the harmonic depth carrying the resonant meaning: an utterable mono-syllabic word used with semantic ambiguity in the
    relevant gospel passage.
    Thanks for all the info.

    Right. Lennon was proud of the feedback in 'I Feel Fine' even in the later interviews, pointing out that the Beatles incorporated feedback into a song before the Who or Hendrix.
    I reconstructed the feedback incident for "The Quality Of Mersey" (July 2020). It is true that Lennon felt most comfortable justifying his guitar work on a stylistic basis, so "You Can't Do That" was his Wilson Pickett impersonation, "Not A
    Second Time" was more Smokey Robinson, heavy metal formulated for "Ticket To Ride." The feedback trick relied on actually triggering a sympathetic reaction creating a synthetic audio loop, very difficult to accidentally use properly the first time in a
    creative context.

    The purpose was to get a certain sound, in that case an 'O' long vowel sound, as part of an intro. The song had some sophistication, beyond the subliminal guitar riff and solo elements, as an urbane contrast to the rustic presentation of "She'
    s A Woman" on the flip side of the single. John and Paul had an ongoing contest to compose the A-side of the next hit single, and Lennon prevailed with a tune written around the fast-paced riff. There were cryptic utterances in the opening as well, and a
    single dog barking at the end. So subtly introducing more than people would have expected, with the majority of the iceberg still below the surfacing of consciousness.

    The dissonance and electronic distortion would be developed during the psychedelic era in some yet-unexplored ways, however precise further use of feedback specifically is not certain. Performances like McCartney's of "Taxman" and "Good
    Morning Good Morning" rival or surpass some of Hendrix's best electric guitar work in my opinion, with searing power under masterful control. There are parts of "Yer Blues" and "She's So Heavy" that are played in an extremely complex fashion, aside from
    more 'instrumentally comprehensible' portions.

    Certainly they used the reverse technique more than feedback, abetted by George Martin, who was filmed in an early era explaining how sounds could be manipulated after they were recorded, saying this a cymbal, then asking have you heard it
    backwards. The way Martin edited the end of "Rain" indicated he not only comprehended what the reverse-lyrics were, but how to cleverly alter the message with a slight change of the backwards vocal track. John would mimic what his voice sounded like in
    the coda with that sound texture, while making sure to garble what the message really was into gibberish. Martin had done comedy records, he was familiar with sound effects as well as orchestral scoring.

    The participation of Martin was crucial to "Strawberry Fields Forever," combining two takes in different keys and tempos, by finding they had a convergence point with the speed changed on each. There are reversed cymbals on that track.

    The "Can You Take Me Back" brief song fragment bridging "Cry Baby Cry" and "Revolution 9" has a distinctly Native American sound. During the Apple era, there was someone tasked with casting the I Ching for important decisions; events were given
    surreal scheduled times like 5:16, seemingly derived from astrology.

    Looking at the triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn commencing past three weeks after Lennon's assassination, using the same method of recognizing significant dates, it functions as a review of his particular specific decisions that could
    be perceived negatively. This sequence began 31 December 1980, which in 1970 was the date Paul McCartney would file to legally dissolve The Beatles, since Lennon would not go public with his decision to end the group. These coincidences are on the
    controversial side, recalling dates from his life where others might have a problem, with nothing genuinely negative from him to merit that feeling.

    The second was on 4 March 1981, which in 1966 was the date the London Evening Standard article by Maureen Cleave was released, which stirred opposite controversies on either side of the Atlantic, because John was relentlessly honest without
    being explicitly demonstrative about the subliminal transference issue.

    The third union of Jupiter and Saturn in that cycle was on 24 July 1981, which in 1967 was the date of publication for an
    advertisement in The London Times where The Beatles added their names to a list denouncing cannabis prohibition.

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/1967/07/24/the-beatles-call-for-the-legalisation-of-marijuana/

    As for the lyrics of "Helter Skelter" implying the Moon-Stowaway theme, "miles above you" is only literally true in an outer space context, and the role-playing for this character may come from 'prior experience.' "Will you, won't you," "Do you
    don't you want me to love you," "Tell me, Tell me, Tell me the Answer": this is a binary thinker, a narcissist with a huge ego seeking to obsessively attach to a demagogic leader (or several), insisting to know who is for or against him personally,
    towards a total purge of detractors. McCartney role-plays the hybrid-demonic spirit banished to the barren Moon (yet rapidly returning to Earth), challenging a staid performing musician like himself -

    "Well, You MAY Be A Lover,
    But You AIN'T No Dance
    I always assumed the 'Can you Take me back' piece was a sortt of surprise ending to 'Cry Baby Cry'..

    Whatever the intention, it's beautiful and mysterious.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNUF7wy9gpU

    That is the entire first take, the used portion is towards the end. The rhythm and rattling sounds distinctly Native American. They put on something like the Hopi Kachina Mask with that one. I remember listening to it with a high school friend who
    had a reaction that it was hypnotically inducing the state of 'going back,' a sense of primal return.
    The splashdown of the Apollo 11 crew on 24 July 1969 was very close to the 25 July 1969 date, when after being told to merely frighten Gary Hinman out of a supposed $20,000 inheritance, Bobby Beausoleil witnessed as Manson suddenly arrived with a
    samurai sword, and sliced off Hinman's ear with it. Beausoleil had never seen this extreme violence before and asked why, getting a chilling reply: "To show you how to be a man!"

    Others were left to stitch up Hinman with dental floss, ultimately only to torture him until he was killed on 27 July, while reciting a Buddhist prayer.

    So there was a sudden super-malevolent change in the unstable criminal Manson that can be traced very close to the atmospheric re-entry of the Apollo 11 mission spacecraft.

    The Hopi prophecies are common knowledge, with the Moon landing as an ominous prospect.
    The Blue Moon of 30 April 1961 was the harbinger for President John Kennedy's 25 May 1961 speech to a joint session of Congress where he prioritized landing on the Moon as a national goal. It could have been that the remnant Nephilim contingent here
    knew humans had become technologically capable of retrieving their ninety percent cohort trapped on the Moon, and impressed a false urgency for the prestige, inducing people to forget there was no discernible practical advantage.

    There is also a probable reason that the new demonic reinforcements would immediately focus on Manson: what occurred with the infamous killings was a twisted karmic replay of The Slaughter Of The Innocents mass-killing scenario, suggesting he was a
    reincarnation of King Herod who commanded it. There is a loop in "Revolution 9" that names Herod, which was not perceived consciously, apparently even when repeated. The wicked spirits seek to use known enemies of Christ (in reincarnations unknown to
    humans), amplifying their inclinations towards iniquity to insane levels.

    There was a strange coincidence with the opening of the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland, during the period of the Tate and La Bianca murders --

    https://www.mouseplanet.com/12973/Disneyland_Haunted_Mansion_1969#:~:text=The%20mansion%20officially%20opened%20as,of%20Disneyland%20guests%20experienced%20it.

    << Employee previews of the Mansion held on the nights of August 7 and 8 ran so smoothly that it was followed by unannounced "soft" openings on August 9 and 10, where limited numbers of park guests were allowed to ride.

    The exterior of the Haunted Mansion was merely a shell -- requiring guests to enter the "stretching room."

    A "Midnight" Press Event was held on the evening of August 11 from 10:30 pm to midnight. Fifty members of the press were given a special press package upon their arrival at the park that included a "Press Ghost" pass attached to a small glow-in-the-
    dark skull (a "skeleton key") which would be worn throughout the evening. They began the late night by being wined and dined at Club 33 and then Disneyland Ambassador Shari Bescos escorted them to the attraction.

    The mansion officially opened as advertised in the newspapers and the park to all guests the morning of August 12, 1969. However, today, the Walt Disney Company claims that August 9 was the real opening of the attraction since that was the first time
    that a handful of Disneyland guests experienced it.

    Eerily, actress Sharon Tate was murdered along with others early Saturday morning, August 9, 1969 by the disciples of Charles Manson, and that event overshadowed all other news that weekend.

    While today, we just accept the Haunted Mansion as one of the iconic Disneyland attractions, it was quite a challenge getting to that official opening of the "Phantom Phantasy" as early Disney publicity called it in 1969.

    While Walt reviewed many early concepts and previewed elements of the attraction on a 1965 episode entitled "Disneyland's Tenth Anniversary" on his weekly television show The Wonderful World of Color, he never saw the completed show and it was the
    first major Disney attraction to open without the direct supervision of Walt Disney.

    Associated Press writer Bob Thomas who would later author an acclaimed biography of Walt Disney wrote on August 19, 1969 for the San Diego Evening Tribune newspaper: "Many times I listened to [Walt Disney] spin ghostly tales he planned to dramatize in
    a Haunted Mansion at the Anaheim park. The project went through many states… but Walt was never satisfied with the illusions, and he died before his dream could be realized." >>

    There was about a decade of planning for the dark ride, its completion synchronized so that at the time the actual 'Stowaway from Moon Prison' scenario was occurring, such an insidious notion was also being satirized as family fun at the foremost
    amusement park: the finale of the ride is a caution to be wary of ghosts that are hitchhiking to follow patrons home. Then the 'doom buggies' slide past a row of mirrors, where various luminous ghoulish characters can be seen with patrons in the
    reflection.

    The August 1969 sequence implies a secret pageant having been smoothly coordinated by patiently malevolent forces intending an eventual consummation of humanity with its most sinister historic impulses, avoiding the path of Christian Salvation

    LOL, the Disney 'Haunted Mansion' ride was carried through on 'Doom Buggies'. Manson would have liked that name. But the timing of the Tate murders and opening of the Disney ride was as you say a coincidence. Manson & his followers were hanging out in
    secluded spots IIRC...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Tue Dec 6 15:09:13 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    The Great Mercury Reign ends when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 around 5 am CET.
    A further moment before the Saturnin-defined interval ends in less than an hour (10:40 pm CET / 4:40 pm EST) has Venus at the Fifth House cusp, and the Moon as vertical Apex of the vestiges of its Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, appearing Upright, so
    that the grouping with Venus is below what would have been the Balance line oriented another way.

    The Mercury Reign cannot be the time of onset, when the Saturnin period precedes as when the worst happens.

    If eulogizing and bereavement for Kirstie Alley is part of the prophecy, the fire-&-flood catastrophe seems very close indeed.

    The final line of VI.70 implies the event will not be satisfied with anything except the sole title 'Victor,' now implying the 7 December feast for Saint Victor of Piacenza.

    So not far into the Great Mercury Reign for X.79, yet clearly beyond the immediately prior Saturnin interval.

    Par Saturnins endurera le pire

    By Saturnins the worst will be endured

    [V.24]

    Les Saturnins brules par les meuniers

    The Saturnins burned by the millers

    [VI.17]

    So the early portion of the Great Mercury Reign, ensuing from the Saturnin period, appears to be the cataclysmic onset time - on 7 December 2022 specifically.

    A little bit after Sunset in Geneva is when the critical sequence commences on that evening.

    Sunset at 4:45 pm CET brings the Fortune jump from slightly below the Ecliptic to slightly above, not a big change due to the solar-lunar near opposition.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point at 5:02 pm CET, with Fortune then nearing Venus.

    The critical triggering condition may be when Venus is conjoined by Fortune 7 December 2022 5:08 pm CET: not only is it strange timing, just before Venus falls beneath the horizon, but also the East Point comes into a position where it reconstitutes the
    Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, eliminating need for the progressed Moon.

    As this East Point transitory Grand Trine forms at 5:09 pm CET, the Vertex is with the South Node - that sudden Grand Trine could be the 'Good Omen' that besieges a city in II.66.

    The East Point connection is broken before Venus reaches the Descendant, happening at 5:30 pm CET.

    So this particular prophecy was given in stages rather than focusing on a single moment, full of enigmatic remarks that seem sometimes conflicting or imprecise.

    The Venus-Fortune conjunction is at 7 December 2022 11:08 am EST / 8:08 am PST.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Wed Dec 7 11:49:31 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    There is a slight difference between Vitrix and Vertex: Vitrix is translated as Conqueress, but the meaning is that Trinitarian Felix would die forlorn from grief about the Grand Trine employed in a mass slaughter prophecy. But it should be
    considered that having the Vertex complete a Grand Trine in the natal chart could make Kirstie Alley the Lady of the Vertex whose life would be celebrated during the Hecatomb-Sacrifice.

    His Vertex Lady will be celebrated during the Sacrifice

    The Victor of VI.70 would be Saint Victor of Piacenza with the 7 December feast.

    In IV.95 line 4 the use of Victor is ambiguously followed by 'puine' which could indicate Mercury as solar cadet.

    Victor puine en Armonique terre

    Victor, cadet into Brittany territory

    The same saint Victor of 7 December in 2022 is within the Great Mercury Reign, as would be 9 December as Brittany soil, via feast for Saint Boduc.

    The Great Mercury Reign ends when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 around 5 am CET.
    A further moment before the Saturnin-defined interval ends in less than an hour (10:40 pm CET / 4:40 pm EST) has Venus at the Fifth House cusp, and the Moon as vertical Apex of the vestiges of its Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, appearing Upright,
    so that the grouping with Venus is below what would have been the Balance line oriented another way.

    The Mercury Reign cannot be the time of onset, when the Saturnin period precedes as when the worst happens.
    If eulogizing and bereavement for Kirstie Alley is part of the prophecy, the fire-&-flood catastrophe seems very close indeed.

    The final line of VI.70 implies the event will not be satisfied with anything except the sole title 'Victor,' now implying the 7 December feast for Saint Victor of Piacenza.

    So not far into the Great Mercury Reign for X.79, yet clearly beyond the immediately prior Saturnin interval.

    Par Saturnins endurera le pire

    By Saturnins the worst will be endured

    [V.24]

    Les Saturnins brules par les meuniers

    The Saturnins burned by the millers

    [VI.17]

    So the early portion of the Great Mercury Reign, ensuing from the Saturnin period, appears to be the cataclysmic onset time - on 7 December 2022 specifically.

    A little bit after Sunset in Geneva is when the critical sequence commences on that evening.

    Sunset at 4:45 pm CET brings the Fortune jump from slightly below the Ecliptic to slightly above, not a big change due to the solar-lunar near opposition.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point at 5:02 pm CET, with Fortune then nearing Venus.

    The critical triggering condition may be when Venus is conjoined by Fortune 7 December 2022 5:08 pm CET: not only is it strange timing, just before Venus falls beneath the horizon, but also the East Point comes into a position where it reconstitutes
    the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, eliminating need for the progressed Moon.

    As this East Point transitory Grand Trine forms at 5:09 pm CET, the Vertex is with the South Node - that sudden Grand Trine could be the 'Good Omen' that besieges a city in II.66.

    The East Point connection is broken before Venus reaches the Descendant, happening at 5:30 pm CET.

    So this particular prophecy was given in stages rather than focusing on a single moment, full of enigmatic remarks that seem sometimes conflicting or imprecise.

    The Venus-Fortune conjunction is at 7 December 2022 11:08 am EST / 8:08 am PST.

    There seems to be a connection with the anniversary of the 8 December 1980 event that ended hopes for a reunion of The Beatles, foretold in I.57 as stated prior.

    In VI.70 the seer guides through the 2-3 December 2022 lunar and solar aspects with Chiron, identifies the further lunar conjunct as Ouranos (Heavens) around 5 December, then alludes to the 7 December feast for Saint Victor Piacenza as a necessary date
    to reach.

    In II.66 the opening line foretold the 28 October 2022 Pelosi home invasion hammer attack; then the 4 December 2022 situation at Geneva Dawn was described, when Fortune made a jump from the position of Pallas. The final line suggests finding an ironic '
    Good Omen' by which the city would be besieged.

    In V.18 Saint Felix of Valois as Trinitarian with 20 November feast was invoked, hinting at a woman with a Grand Trine involving the Vertex (Vitrix) in her natal chart: this suggests the recent passing of Kirstie Alley, with a Jupiter-Ouranos-Vertex
    Grand Trine for Wichita 12 January 1951 2:36 pm CST, is the Lady honored or celebrated through the time of massive fatalities from the force of terror incident (I.94).

    In V.66 the 25 October 2022 solar eclipse seems the subject of the 'gold engraving' in the final line, because it coincided with the feast of Trajan martyr Saint Minias of Florence. The 'Sun and Moon' in line 3 are associated with glittering metals,
    however this is not necessarily a conjunction; another Trajan martyr (from the same year 250) feast was found 5 December for Saint Bassus of Nice.

    In V.42 the Revelation Cup of Wrath theme is revealed through the angels administering the dark task of delivering Divine Fury, with a focus on the Black Forest region (suggesting Geneva) for the building of a fire; the references to a Tavern and
    Lombardy match the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting into 20 November 2022, via feast for Saint Benignus. Feast for Saint Mirocles of Milan made 3 December another Lombardy date.

    The 4 December date corresponded with numerous potential matches: Saint Bernard degli Uberti for Parma in VII.5; Saint Clement of Alexandria as the Bible reader of V.83; Saint Apro for Lyons (VIII.34) and Gaul (X.58).

    The Saturnin period has been defined as a resumed Vestal Reign, leading into the supremacy of Great Mercury (X.79), which will last until Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    Of two notable anniversaries, the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and the 8 December 1980 assassination of John Lennon, the latter seems more likely to be critically indicated, from observing the celestial movements.

    Before Dawn for Geneva 8 December 2022 6:28 am CET there will be an augmented Sagittarius Sun - Gemini Mars opposition (both at 16 degrees 5 minutes): the Moon will have only surpassed Mars (the next lunar conjunct after Ouranos) by a fraction of a
    degree, so they appear together; and the Sun will be at the East Point. The chart looks especially ominous, because Fortune is at the Descendant, reconstituting a Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres (that originated as a Lunar Grand Trine). This is likely
    the condition hinted by 'Sol et Lune' from V.66.

    When Dawn arrives for Geneva at 8:11 am CET, since the Sun and Moon are in opposition the jump for Fortune is a slight distance, staying in Gemini with a leap from around 3 degrees to the Moon's position past 17.5 degrees.

    When Venus rises at 9:05 am CET, it is clearly not going to be replay of the 9-11 attacks, where Mercury was rising locally at event onset: nothing seems engaged then.

    A different story emerges.

    Those which had been perceived as Under The Balance 17 November 2022 12:47 am CET become background identification for V.42, meaning the Sun, Venus, and Mercury, will cross the Midheaven point in succession, as the Gemini Moon moves towards its trine
    with Aquarian Saturn past twenty degrees (IX.44, 72).

    The Sun at Midheaven 12:28 pm CET does not appear very ominous.

    When Venus arrives at Midheaven 8 December 2022 1:18 pm CET [/ 7:18 am EST / 4:18 am PST], the Vertex and Fortune are clustered with Ceres at the Descendant; and the Moon is eleven minutes of a degree from its trine with Saturn.

    The implication is the cataclysm occurs when Venus is at the Apex (non-skewed Prime Vertical), exalted over Geneva's celestial Vault, and the lunar trine with Saturn is the prominent fateful aspect. This timing precludes Mercury reaching Midheaven before
    the onset: and when Midheaven is midway between Venus and Mercury at 1:27 pm CET, the Vertex drops to the Descendant, as a possible secondary triggering condition nine minutes after Venus at Midheaven.

    Mercury reaching Midheaven in the seer's version is grouped along with Venus, although that incident at 1:38 pm CET would invalidate the 'Venus as Mystery Babylon' theme, if the fiery explosion happens subsequently.

    Saturn has its lunar trine at 1:40 pm CET, with both Saturn and the Moon positioned at 20 degrees 21 minutes in their respective signs, coinciding closely with Mercury at the Midheaven point.

    The next lunar aspect is a square with Neptune 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET, suggesting the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3, presumably while the sustained trembling is an ongoing reality. The US state of Georgia runoff election having its result
    determined recently completes the 'newly-elected' portion of VI.21, with 'great sustained trembling' to follow; the remainder of VI.21 concerned the country of Georgia in an uprising circa August 2008.

    The rulership of Great Mercury (X.79) terminates when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET, yet that timing is not clearly associated with anything specifically. Applying the VII.5 scheduling for the two inexplicable nights that descend
    suggests perhaps a full day of unusual vibrations and sensations, leading into an otherwise normal night when the sustained trembling finally subsides.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Wed Dec 7 15:11:59 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    Then the Vertex slips through Scorpio to make a Grand Trine around 2:36 pm CST.

    It is odd to notice the word 'Vitrix' in V.18, regarding the solution for Saint Felix of Valois --

    Celebrera son Vitrix l'hecatombe

    There is a slight difference between Vitrix and Vertex: Vitrix is translated as Conqueress, but the meaning is that Trinitarian Felix would die forlorn from grief about the Grand Trine employed in a mass slaughter prophecy. But it should be
    considered that having the Vertex complete a Grand Trine in the natal chart could make Kirstie Alley the Lady of the Vertex whose life would be celebrated during the Hecatomb-Sacrifice.

    His Vertex Lady will be celebrated during the Sacrifice

    The Victor of VI.70 would be Saint Victor of Piacenza with the 7 December feast.

    In IV.95 line 4 the use of Victor is ambiguously followed by 'puine' which could indicate Mercury as solar cadet.

    Victor puine en Armonique terre

    Victor, cadet into Brittany territory

    The same saint Victor of 7 December in 2022 is within the Great Mercury Reign, as would be 9 December as Brittany soil, via feast for Saint Boduc.

    The Great Mercury Reign ends when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 around 5 am CET.
    A further moment before the Saturnin-defined interval ends in less than an hour (10:40 pm CET / 4:40 pm EST) has Venus at the Fifth House cusp, and the Moon as vertical Apex of the vestiges of its Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, appearing Upright,
    so that the grouping with Venus is below what would have been the Balance line oriented another way.

    The Mercury Reign cannot be the time of onset, when the Saturnin period precedes as when the worst happens.
    If eulogizing and bereavement for Kirstie Alley is part of the prophecy, the fire-&-flood catastrophe seems very close indeed.

    The final line of VI.70 implies the event will not be satisfied with anything except the sole title 'Victor,' now implying the 7 December feast for Saint Victor of Piacenza.

    So not far into the Great Mercury Reign for X.79, yet clearly beyond the immediately prior Saturnin interval.

    Par Saturnins endurera le pire

    By Saturnins the worst will be endured

    [V.24]

    Les Saturnins brules par les meuniers

    The Saturnins burned by the millers

    [VI.17]

    So the early portion of the Great Mercury Reign, ensuing from the Saturnin period, appears to be the cataclysmic onset time - on 7 December 2022 specifically.

    A little bit after Sunset in Geneva is when the critical sequence commences on that evening.

    Sunset at 4:45 pm CET brings the Fortune jump from slightly below the Ecliptic to slightly above, not a big change due to the solar-lunar near opposition.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point at 5:02 pm CET, with Fortune then nearing Venus.

    The critical triggering condition may be when Venus is conjoined by Fortune 7 December 2022 5:08 pm CET: not only is it strange timing, just before Venus falls beneath the horizon, but also the East Point comes into a position where it reconstitutes
    the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, eliminating need for the progressed Moon.

    As this East Point transitory Grand Trine forms at 5:09 pm CET, the Vertex is with the South Node - that sudden Grand Trine could be the 'Good Omen' that besieges a city in II.66.

    The East Point connection is broken before Venus reaches the Descendant, happening at 5:30 pm CET.

    So this particular prophecy was given in stages rather than focusing on a single moment, full of enigmatic remarks that seem sometimes conflicting or imprecise.

    The Venus-Fortune conjunction is at 7 December 2022 11:08 am EST / 8:08 am PST.
    There seems to be a connection with the anniversary of the 8 December 1980 event that ended hopes for a reunion of The Beatles, foretold in I.57 as stated prior.

    In VI.70 the seer guides through the 2-3 December 2022 lunar and solar aspects with Chiron, identifies the further lunar conjunct as Ouranos (Heavens) around 5 December, then alludes to the 7 December feast for Saint Victor Piacenza as a necessary date
    to reach.

    In II.66 the opening line foretold the 28 October 2022 Pelosi home invasion hammer attack; then the 4 December 2022 situation at Geneva Dawn was described, when Fortune made a jump from the position of Pallas. The final line suggests finding an ironic '
    Good Omen' by which the city would be besieged.

    In V.18 Saint Felix of Valois as Trinitarian with 20 November feast was invoked, hinting at a woman with a Grand Trine involving the Vertex (Vitrix) in her natal chart: this suggests the recent passing of Kirstie Alley, with a Jupiter-Ouranos-Vertex
    Grand Trine for Wichita 12 January 1951 2:36 pm CST, is the Lady honored or celebrated through the time of massive fatalities from the force of terror incident (I.94).

    In V.66 the 25 October 2022 solar eclipse seems the subject of the 'gold engraving' in the final line, because it coincided with the feast of Trajan martyr Saint Minias of Florence. The 'Sun and Moon' in line 3 are associated with glittering metals,
    however this is not necessarily a conjunction; another Trajan martyr (from the same year 250) feast was found 5 December for Saint Bassus of Nice.

    In V.42 the Revelation Cup of Wrath theme is revealed through the angels administering the dark task of delivering Divine Fury, with a focus on the Black Forest region (suggesting Geneva) for the building of a fire; the references to a Tavern and
    Lombardy match the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting into 20 November 2022, via feast for Saint Benignus. Feast for Saint Mirocles of Milan made 3 December another Lombardy date.

    The 4 December date corresponded with numerous potential matches: Saint Bernard degli Uberti for Parma in VII.5; Saint Clement of Alexandria as the Bible reader of V.83; Saint Apro for Lyons (VIII.34) and Gaul (X.58).

    The Saturnin period has been defined as a resumed Vestal Reign, leading into the supremacy of Great Mercury (X.79), which will last until Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    Of two notable anniversaries, the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and the 8 December 1980 assassination of John Lennon, the latter seems more likely to be critically indicated, from observing the celestial movements.

    Before Dawn for Geneva 8 December 2022 6:28 am CET there will be an augmented Sagittarius Sun - Gemini Mars opposition (both at 16 degrees 5 minutes): the Moon will have only surpassed Mars (the next lunar conjunct after Ouranos) by a fraction of a
    degree, so they appear together; and the Sun will be at the East Point. The chart looks especially ominous, because Fortune is at the Descendant, reconstituting a Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres (that originated as a Lunar Grand Trine). This is likely
    the condition hinted by 'Sol et Lune' from V.66.

    When Dawn arrives for Geneva at 8:11 am CET, since the Sun and Moon are in opposition the jump for Fortune is a slight distance, staying in Gemini with a leap from around 3 degrees to the Moon's position past 17.5 degrees.

    When Venus rises at 9:05 am CET, it is clearly not going to be replay of the 9-11 attacks, where Mercury was rising locally at event onset: nothing seems engaged then.

    A different story emerges.

    Those which had been perceived as Under The Balance 17 November 2022 12:47 am CET become background identification for V.42, meaning the Sun, Venus, and Mercury, will cross the Midheaven point in succession, as the Gemini Moon moves towards its trine
    with Aquarian Saturn past twenty degrees (IX.44, 72).

    The Sun at Midheaven 12:28 pm CET does not appear very ominous.

    When Venus arrives at Midheaven 8 December 2022 1:18 pm CET [/ 7:18 am EST / 4:18 am PST], the Vertex and Fortune are clustered with Ceres at the Descendant; and the Moon is eleven minutes of a degree from its trine with Saturn.

    The implication is the cataclysm occurs when Venus is at the Apex (non-skewed Prime Vertical), exalted over Geneva's celestial Vault, and the lunar trine with Saturn is the prominent fateful aspect. This timing precludes Mercury reaching Midheaven
    before the onset: and when Midheaven is midway between Venus and Mercury at 1:27 pm CET, the Vertex drops to the Descendant, as a possible secondary triggering condition nine minutes after Venus at Midheaven.

    Mercury reaching Midheaven in the seer's version is grouped along with Venus, although that incident at 1:38 pm CET would invalidate the 'Venus as Mystery Babylon' theme, if the fiery explosion happens subsequently.

    Saturn has its lunar trine at 1:40 pm CET, with both Saturn and the Moon positioned at 20 degrees 21 minutes in their respective signs, coinciding closely with Mercury at the Midheaven point.

    The next lunar aspect is a square with Neptune 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET, suggesting the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3, presumably while the sustained trembling is an ongoing reality. The US state of Georgia runoff election having its result
    determined recently completes the 'newly-elected' portion of VI.21, with 'great sustained trembling' to follow; the remainder of VI.21 concerned the country of Georgia in an uprising circa August 2008.

    The rulership of Great Mercury (X.79) terminates when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET, yet that timing is not clearly associated with anything specifically. Applying the VII.5 scheduling for the two inexplicable nights that descend
    suggests perhaps a full day of unusual vibrations and sensations, leading into an otherwise normal night when the sustained trembling finally subsides.

    The brief reappearance of the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres through Fortune being fortuitously positioned at the Descendant during the Mars solar opposition, augmented by the separate yet coordinated Moon and East point placements, as an isolated
    incident clearly manifests the menacing 'Good Omen' for the final line of II.66, to restate the obvious.

    The Sun-Mars opposition of 8 December 2022 is not itself the time of onset, but a short-term precursor that could be mistaken for an auspicious occurrence: a bad omen masquerading as a good one. The setup for the actual incident to debase Venus arrives
    swiftly from that final sign.

    The Mobile Sign of I.54 arrived earlier, with Venus at the Nadir under the Balance for Geneva during the partisan determination of the US House of Representatives; V.42 referred back to that 17 November 2022 situation, while looking forward to 8 December
    with Venus at Midheaven.

    My theory of the Saturnin-Vestal period does not seem to be necessary or correct: the Saturn lunar trine at the time of onset is sufficient for the 'Saturnin' term, having a timely connection. However the Great Mercury Reign does seem properly assessed.

    The 8 December 2022 is the 42nd year since the 1980 assassination of John Lennon, which was the subject of I.57; it is also the feast of the Immaculate Conception, referring to the spiritual purity of Christ's Mother Mary.

    Par grand discord la terre tremblera
    Accord rompu dressant la tete au ciel
    Bouche sanglante dans le sang nagera
    Au sol la face ointe de lait and miel

    The world's South Pacific to tremble from the great discord -
    Harmony thus being broken, towards Heaven the head uplifting -
    The mouth engulfed, swimming in blood, unable to speak a word -
    The face on the ground anointed with Milk And Honey recording

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Thu Dec 8 05:56:00 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    Lady by force of terror honored

    The report of the recent death of celebrity actress Kirstie Alley could be what was intended, in another real-world prediction unexpectedly fulfilled.
    One site gives Kirstie Alley's birth time as 2 pm local CST, on 12 January 1951, in Wichita, Kansas.

    https://aaps.space/kundli/kirstie-alley/

    I found a near-trine at 2 pm CST between Jupiter at 7 degrees Pisces, and Ouranos at 6 degrees 50 minutes Cancer.

    Then the Vertex slips through Scorpio to make a Grand Trine around 2:36 pm CST.

    It is odd to notice the word 'Vitrix' in V.18, regarding the solution for Saint Felix of Valois --

    Celebrera son Vitrix l'hecatombe

    There is a slight difference between Vitrix and Vertex: Vitrix is translated as Conqueress, but the meaning is that Trinitarian Felix would die forlorn from grief about the Grand Trine employed in a mass slaughter prophecy. But it should be
    considered that having the Vertex complete a Grand Trine in the natal chart could make Kirstie Alley the Lady of the Vertex whose life would be celebrated during the Hecatomb-Sacrifice.

    His Vertex Lady will be celebrated during the Sacrifice

    The Victor of VI.70 would be Saint Victor of Piacenza with the 7 December feast.

    In IV.95 line 4 the use of Victor is ambiguously followed by 'puine' which could indicate Mercury as solar cadet.

    Victor puine en Armonique terre

    Victor, cadet into Brittany territory

    The same saint Victor of 7 December in 2022 is within the Great Mercury Reign, as would be 9 December as Brittany soil, via feast for Saint Boduc.

    The Great Mercury Reign ends when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 around 5 am CET.
    A further moment before the Saturnin-defined interval ends in less than an hour (10:40 pm CET / 4:40 pm EST) has Venus at the Fifth House cusp, and the Moon as vertical Apex of the vestiges of its Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, appearing
    Upright, so that the grouping with Venus is below what would have been the Balance line oriented another way.

    The Mercury Reign cannot be the time of onset, when the Saturnin period precedes as when the worst happens.
    If eulogizing and bereavement for Kirstie Alley is part of the prophecy, the fire-&-flood catastrophe seems very close indeed.

    The final line of VI.70 implies the event will not be satisfied with anything except the sole title 'Victor,' now implying the 7 December feast for Saint Victor of Piacenza.

    So not far into the Great Mercury Reign for X.79, yet clearly beyond the immediately prior Saturnin interval.

    Par Saturnins endurera le pire

    By Saturnins the worst will be endured

    [V.24]

    Les Saturnins brules par les meuniers

    The Saturnins burned by the millers

    [VI.17]

    So the early portion of the Great Mercury Reign, ensuing from the Saturnin period, appears to be the cataclysmic onset time - on 7 December 2022 specifically.

    A little bit after Sunset in Geneva is when the critical sequence commences on that evening.

    Sunset at 4:45 pm CET brings the Fortune jump from slightly below the Ecliptic to slightly above, not a big change due to the solar-lunar near opposition.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point at 5:02 pm CET, with Fortune then nearing Venus.

    The critical triggering condition may be when Venus is conjoined by Fortune 7 December 2022 5:08 pm CET: not only is it strange timing, just before Venus falls beneath the horizon, but also the East Point comes into a position where it
    reconstitutes the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, eliminating need for the progressed Moon.

    As this East Point transitory Grand Trine forms at 5:09 pm CET, the Vertex is with the South Node - that sudden Grand Trine could be the 'Good Omen' that besieges a city in II.66.

    The East Point connection is broken before Venus reaches the Descendant, happening at 5:30 pm CET.

    So this particular prophecy was given in stages rather than focusing on a single moment, full of enigmatic remarks that seem sometimes conflicting or imprecise.

    The Venus-Fortune conjunction is at 7 December 2022 11:08 am EST / 8:08 am PST.
    There seems to be a connection with the anniversary of the 8 December 1980 event that ended hopes for a reunion of The Beatles, foretold in I.57 as stated prior.

    In VI.70 the seer guides through the 2-3 December 2022 lunar and solar aspects with Chiron, identifies the further lunar conjunct as Ouranos (Heavens) around 5 December, then alludes to the 7 December feast for Saint Victor Piacenza as a necessary
    date to reach.

    In II.66 the opening line foretold the 28 October 2022 Pelosi home invasion hammer attack; then the 4 December 2022 situation at Geneva Dawn was described, when Fortune made a jump from the position of Pallas. The final line suggests finding an
    ironic 'Good Omen' by which the city would be besieged.

    In V.18 Saint Felix of Valois as Trinitarian with 20 November feast was invoked, hinting at a woman with a Grand Trine involving the Vertex (Vitrix) in her natal chart: this suggests the recent passing of Kirstie Alley, with a Jupiter-Ouranos-Vertex
    Grand Trine for Wichita 12 January 1951 2:36 pm CST, is the Lady honored or celebrated through the time of massive fatalities from the force of terror incident (I.94).

    In V.66 the 25 October 2022 solar eclipse seems the subject of the 'gold engraving' in the final line, because it coincided with the feast of Trajan martyr Saint Minias of Florence. The 'Sun and Moon' in line 3 are associated with glittering metals,
    however this is not necessarily a conjunction; another Trajan martyr (from the same year 250) feast was found 5 December for Saint Bassus of Nice.

    In V.42 the Revelation Cup of Wrath theme is revealed through the angels administering the dark task of delivering Divine Fury, with a focus on the Black Forest region (suggesting Geneva) for the building of a fire; the references to a Tavern and
    Lombardy match the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting into 20 November 2022, via feast for Saint Benignus. Feast for Saint Mirocles of Milan made 3 December another Lombardy date.

    The 4 December date corresponded with numerous potential matches: Saint Bernard degli Uberti for Parma in VII.5; Saint Clement of Alexandria as the Bible reader of V.83; Saint Apro for Lyons (VIII.34) and Gaul (X.58).

    The Saturnin period has been defined as a resumed Vestal Reign, leading into the supremacy of Great Mercury (X.79), which will last until Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    Of two notable anniversaries, the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and the 8 December 1980 assassination of John Lennon, the latter seems more likely to be critically indicated, from observing the celestial movements.

    Before Dawn for Geneva 8 December 2022 6:28 am CET there will be an augmented Sagittarius Sun - Gemini Mars opposition (both at 16 degrees 5 minutes): the Moon will have only surpassed Mars (the next lunar conjunct after Ouranos) by a fraction of a
    degree, so they appear together; and the Sun will be at the East Point. The chart looks especially ominous, because Fortune is at the Descendant, reconstituting a Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres (that originated as a Lunar Grand Trine). This is likely
    the condition hinted by 'Sol et Lune' from V.66.

    When Dawn arrives for Geneva at 8:11 am CET, since the Sun and Moon are in opposition the jump for Fortune is a slight distance, staying in Gemini with a leap from around 3 degrees to the Moon's position past 17.5 degrees.

    When Venus rises at 9:05 am CET, it is clearly not going to be replay of the 9-11 attacks, where Mercury was rising locally at event onset: nothing seems engaged then.

    A different story emerges.

    Those which had been perceived as Under The Balance 17 November 2022 12:47 am CET become background identification for V.42, meaning the Sun, Venus, and Mercury, will cross the Midheaven point in succession, as the Gemini Moon moves towards its trine
    with Aquarian Saturn past twenty degrees (IX.44, 72).

    The Sun at Midheaven 12:28 pm CET does not appear very ominous.

    When Venus arrives at Midheaven 8 December 2022 1:18 pm CET [/ 7:18 am EST / 4:18 am PST], the Vertex and Fortune are clustered with Ceres at the Descendant; and the Moon is eleven minutes of a degree from its trine with Saturn.

    The implication is the cataclysm occurs when Venus is at the Apex (non-skewed Prime Vertical), exalted over Geneva's celestial Vault, and the lunar trine with Saturn is the prominent fateful aspect. This timing precludes Mercury reaching Midheaven
    before the onset: and when Midheaven is midway between Venus and Mercury at 1:27 pm CET, the Vertex drops to the Descendant, as a possible secondary triggering condition nine minutes after Venus at Midheaven.

    Mercury reaching Midheaven in the seer's version is grouped along with Venus, although that incident at 1:38 pm CET would invalidate the 'Venus as Mystery Babylon' theme, if the fiery explosion happens subsequently.

    Saturn has its lunar trine at 1:40 pm CET, with both Saturn and the Moon positioned at 20 degrees 21 minutes in their respective signs, coinciding closely with Mercury at the Midheaven point.

    The next lunar aspect is a square with Neptune 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET, suggesting the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3, presumably while the sustained trembling is an ongoing reality. The US state of Georgia runoff election having its result
    determined recently completes the 'newly-elected' portion of VI.21, with 'great sustained trembling' to follow; the remainder of VI.21 concerned the country of Georgia in an uprising circa August 2008.

    The rulership of Great Mercury (X.79) terminates when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET, yet that timing is not clearly associated with anything specifically. Applying the VII.5 scheduling for the two inexplicable nights that
    descend suggests perhaps a full day of unusual vibrations and sensations, leading into an otherwise normal night when the sustained trembling finally subsides.
    The brief reappearance of the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres through Fortune being fortuitously positioned at the Descendant during the Mars solar opposition, augmented by the separate yet coordinated Moon and East point placements, as an isolated
    incident clearly manifests the menacing 'Good Omen' for the final line of II.66, to restate the obvious.

    The Sun-Mars opposition of 8 December 2022 is not itself the time of onset, but a short-term precursor that could be mistaken for an auspicious occurrence: a bad omen masquerading as a good one. The setup for the actual incident to debase Venus arrives
    swiftly from that final sign.

    The Mobile Sign of I.54 arrived earlier, with Venus at the Nadir under the Balance for Geneva during the partisan determination of the US House of Representatives; V.42 referred back to that 17 November 2022 situation, while looking forward to 8
    December with Venus at Midheaven.

    My theory of the Saturnin-Vestal period does not seem to be necessary or correct: the Saturn lunar trine at the time of onset is sufficient for the 'Saturnin' term, having a timely connection. However the Great Mercury Reign does seem properly assessed.


    The 8 December 2022 is the 42nd year since the 1980 assassination of John Lennon, which was the subject of I.57; it is also the feast of the Immaculate Conception, referring to the spiritual purity of Christ's Mother Mary.

    Par grand discord la terre tremblera
    Accord rompu dressant la tete au ciel
    Bouche sanglante dans le sang nagera
    Au sol la face ointe de lait and miel

    The world's South Pacific to tremble from the great discord -
    Harmony thus being broken, towards Heaven the head uplifting -
    The mouth engulfed, swimming in blood, unable to speak a word -
    The face on the ground anointed with Milk And Honey recording

    The Mars lunar conjunct of 8 December 2022 was an occultation, so astronomically close it was a sort of eclipse.

    The Saturnin interval following the Saturn lunar trine ends with the Neptune lunar square (6:13 pm CET).

    Dusk (4:45 pm CET) causes Fortune to leap from 21 degrees 39 minutes Sagittarius (slightly above the Ecliptic) to 11 degrees 8 minutes in the same sign, slightly below the Ecliptic.

    Then Venus has its debasing moment reaching the Descendant 8 December 2022 5:32 pm CET [/ 11:32 am EST / 8:32 am PST]: this arrives when Fortune is at 22 degrees 28 minutes Sagittarius, in direct opposition with the Moon at 22 degrees 18 minutes Gemini.
    The Sun and Mars remain roughly in opposition at a slightly different angle.

    So the Venus falling for Geneva 8 December 2022 5:32pm CET is the presumed triggering condition for the double cataclysm of fire and flood.

    Also at that moment the Vertex opposes Ouranos along the Sixth and Twelfth House cusps.

    It is not until the Neptune lunar square that the genuine Saturnin interval concludes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Thu Dec 8 07:44:24 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    The sequence in the tune where the resonant bell alternates with George Martin playing clarinet suggests,

    'The Changes Outlined In A Book -'

    <Bell>

    'Written -'

    <Bell>

    '...Back In China..'
    This timing being correct would explain why no female saint was convincingly derived for the final line of I.94 -

    Dame par force de frayeur honoree

    Lady by force of terror honored

    The report of the recent death of celebrity actress Kirstie Alley could be what was intended, in another real-world prediction unexpectedly fulfilled.
    One site gives Kirstie Alley's birth time as 2 pm local CST, on 12 January 1951, in Wichita, Kansas.

    https://aaps.space/kundli/kirstie-alley/

    I found a near-trine at 2 pm CST between Jupiter at 7 degrees Pisces, and Ouranos at 6 degrees 50 minutes Cancer.

    Then the Vertex slips through Scorpio to make a Grand Trine around 2:36 pm CST.

    It is odd to notice the word 'Vitrix' in V.18, regarding the solution for Saint Felix of Valois --

    Celebrera son Vitrix l'hecatombe

    There is a slight difference between Vitrix and Vertex: Vitrix is translated as Conqueress, but the meaning is that Trinitarian Felix would die forlorn from grief about the Grand Trine employed in a mass slaughter prophecy. But it should be
    considered that having the Vertex complete a Grand Trine in the natal chart could make Kirstie Alley the Lady of the Vertex whose life would be celebrated during the Hecatomb-Sacrifice.

    His Vertex Lady will be celebrated during the Sacrifice

    The Victor of VI.70 would be Saint Victor of Piacenza with the 7 December feast.

    In IV.95 line 4 the use of Victor is ambiguously followed by 'puine' which could indicate Mercury as solar cadet.

    Victor puine en Armonique terre

    Victor, cadet into Brittany territory

    The same saint Victor of 7 December in 2022 is within the Great Mercury Reign, as would be 9 December as Brittany soil, via feast for Saint Boduc.

    The Great Mercury Reign ends when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 around 5 am CET.
    A further moment before the Saturnin-defined interval ends in less than an hour (10:40 pm CET / 4:40 pm EST) has Venus at the Fifth House cusp, and the Moon as vertical Apex of the vestiges of its Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, appearing
    Upright, so that the grouping with Venus is below what would have been the Balance line oriented another way.

    The Mercury Reign cannot be the time of onset, when the Saturnin period precedes as when the worst happens.
    If eulogizing and bereavement for Kirstie Alley is part of the prophecy, the fire-&-flood catastrophe seems very close indeed.

    The final line of VI.70 implies the event will not be satisfied with anything except the sole title 'Victor,' now implying the 7 December feast for Saint Victor of Piacenza.

    So not far into the Great Mercury Reign for X.79, yet clearly beyond the immediately prior Saturnin interval.

    Par Saturnins endurera le pire

    By Saturnins the worst will be endured

    [V.24]

    Les Saturnins brules par les meuniers

    The Saturnins burned by the millers

    [VI.17]

    So the early portion of the Great Mercury Reign, ensuing from the Saturnin period, appears to be the cataclysmic onset time - on 7 December 2022 specifically.

    A little bit after Sunset in Geneva is when the critical sequence commences on that evening.

    Sunset at 4:45 pm CET brings the Fortune jump from slightly below the Ecliptic to slightly above, not a big change due to the solar-lunar near opposition.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point at 5:02 pm CET, with Fortune then nearing Venus.

    The critical triggering condition may be when Venus is conjoined by Fortune 7 December 2022 5:08 pm CET: not only is it strange timing, just before Venus falls beneath the horizon, but also the East Point comes into a position where it
    reconstitutes the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, eliminating need for the progressed Moon.

    As this East Point transitory Grand Trine forms at 5:09 pm CET, the Vertex is with the South Node - that sudden Grand Trine could be the 'Good Omen' that besieges a city in II.66.

    The East Point connection is broken before Venus reaches the Descendant, happening at 5:30 pm CET.

    So this particular prophecy was given in stages rather than focusing on a single moment, full of enigmatic remarks that seem sometimes conflicting or imprecise.

    The Venus-Fortune conjunction is at 7 December 2022 11:08 am EST / 8:08 am PST.
    There seems to be a connection with the anniversary of the 8 December 1980 event that ended hopes for a reunion of The Beatles, foretold in I.57 as stated prior.

    In VI.70 the seer guides through the 2-3 December 2022 lunar and solar aspects with Chiron, identifies the further lunar conjunct as Ouranos (Heavens) around 5 December, then alludes to the 7 December feast for Saint Victor Piacenza as a necessary
    date to reach.

    In II.66 the opening line foretold the 28 October 2022 Pelosi home invasion hammer attack; then the 4 December 2022 situation at Geneva Dawn was described, when Fortune made a jump from the position of Pallas. The final line suggests finding an
    ironic 'Good Omen' by which the city would be besieged.

    In V.18 Saint Felix of Valois as Trinitarian with 20 November feast was invoked, hinting at a woman with a Grand Trine involving the Vertex (Vitrix) in her natal chart: this suggests the recent passing of Kirstie Alley, with a Jupiter-Ouranos-
    Vertex Grand Trine for Wichita 12 January 1951 2:36 pm CST, is the Lady honored or celebrated through the time of massive fatalities from the force of terror incident (I.94).

    In V.66 the 25 October 2022 solar eclipse seems the subject of the 'gold engraving' in the final line, because it coincided with the feast of Trajan martyr Saint Minias of Florence. The 'Sun and Moon' in line 3 are associated with glittering metals,
    however this is not necessarily a conjunction; another Trajan martyr (from the same year 250) feast was found 5 December for Saint Bassus of Nice.

    In V.42 the Revelation Cup of Wrath theme is revealed through the angels administering the dark task of delivering Divine Fury, with a focus on the Black Forest region (suggesting Geneva) for the building of a fire; the references to a Tavern and
    Lombardy match the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting into 20 November 2022, via feast for Saint Benignus. Feast for Saint Mirocles of Milan made 3 December another Lombardy date.

    The 4 December date corresponded with numerous potential matches: Saint Bernard degli Uberti for Parma in VII.5; Saint Clement of Alexandria as the Bible reader of V.83; Saint Apro for Lyons (VIII.34) and Gaul (X.58).

    The Saturnin period has been defined as a resumed Vestal Reign, leading into the supremacy of Great Mercury (X.79), which will last until Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    Of two notable anniversaries, the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and the 8 December 1980 assassination of John Lennon, the latter seems more likely to be critically indicated, from observing the celestial movements.

    Before Dawn for Geneva 8 December 2022 6:28 am CET there will be an augmented Sagittarius Sun - Gemini Mars opposition (both at 16 degrees 5 minutes): the Moon will have only surpassed Mars (the next lunar conjunct after Ouranos) by a fraction of a
    degree, so they appear together; and the Sun will be at the East Point. The chart looks especially ominous, because Fortune is at the Descendant, reconstituting a Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres (that originated as a Lunar Grand Trine). This is likely
    the condition hinted by 'Sol et Lune' from V.66.

    When Dawn arrives for Geneva at 8:11 am CET, since the Sun and Moon are in opposition the jump for Fortune is a slight distance, staying in Gemini with a leap from around 3 degrees to the Moon's position past 17.5 degrees.

    When Venus rises at 9:05 am CET, it is clearly not going to be replay of the 9-11 attacks, where Mercury was rising locally at event onset: nothing seems engaged then.

    A different story emerges.

    Those which had been perceived as Under The Balance 17 November 2022 12:47 am CET become background identification for V.42, meaning the Sun, Venus, and Mercury, will cross the Midheaven point in succession, as the Gemini Moon moves towards its
    trine with Aquarian Saturn past twenty degrees (IX.44, 72).

    The Sun at Midheaven 12:28 pm CET does not appear very ominous.

    When Venus arrives at Midheaven 8 December 2022 1:18 pm CET [/ 7:18 am EST / 4:18 am PST], the Vertex and Fortune are clustered with Ceres at the Descendant; and the Moon is eleven minutes of a degree from its trine with Saturn.

    The implication is the cataclysm occurs when Venus is at the Apex (non-skewed Prime Vertical), exalted over Geneva's celestial Vault, and the lunar trine with Saturn is the prominent fateful aspect. This timing precludes Mercury reaching Midheaven
    before the onset: and when Midheaven is midway between Venus and Mercury at 1:27 pm CET, the Vertex drops to the Descendant, as a possible secondary triggering condition nine minutes after Venus at Midheaven.

    Mercury reaching Midheaven in the seer's version is grouped along with Venus, although that incident at 1:38 pm CET would invalidate the 'Venus as Mystery Babylon' theme, if the fiery explosion happens subsequently.

    Saturn has its lunar trine at 1:40 pm CET, with both Saturn and the Moon positioned at 20 degrees 21 minutes in their respective signs, coinciding closely with Mercury at the Midheaven point.

    The next lunar aspect is a square with Neptune 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET, suggesting the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3, presumably while the sustained trembling is an ongoing reality. The US state of Georgia runoff election having its
    result determined recently completes the 'newly-elected' portion of VI.21, with 'great sustained trembling' to follow; the remainder of VI.21 concerned the country of Georgia in an uprising circa August 2008.

    The rulership of Great Mercury (X.79) terminates when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET, yet that timing is not clearly associated with anything specifically. Applying the VII.5 scheduling for the two inexplicable nights that
    descend suggests perhaps a full day of unusual vibrations and sensations, leading into an otherwise normal night when the sustained trembling finally subsides.
    The brief reappearance of the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres through Fortune being fortuitously positioned at the Descendant during the Mars solar opposition, augmented by the separate yet coordinated Moon and East point placements, as an isolated
    incident clearly manifests the menacing 'Good Omen' for the final line of II.66, to restate the obvious.

    The Sun-Mars opposition of 8 December 2022 is not itself the time of onset, but a short-term precursor that could be mistaken for an auspicious occurrence: a bad omen masquerading as a good one. The setup for the actual incident to debase Venus
    arrives swiftly from that final sign.

    The Mobile Sign of I.54 arrived earlier, with Venus at the Nadir under the Balance for Geneva during the partisan determination of the US House of Representatives; V.42 referred back to that 17 November 2022 situation, while looking forward to 8
    December with Venus at Midheaven.

    My theory of the Saturnin-Vestal period does not seem to be necessary or correct: the Saturn lunar trine at the time of onset is sufficient for the 'Saturnin' term, having a timely connection. However the Great Mercury Reign does seem properly
    assessed.

    The 8 December 2022 is the 42nd year since the 1980 assassination of John Lennon, which was the subject of I.57; it is also the feast of the Immaculate Conception, referring to the spiritual purity of Christ's Mother Mary.

    Par grand discord la terre tremblera
    Accord rompu dressant la tete au ciel
    Bouche sanglante dans le sang nagera
    Au sol la face ointe de lait and miel

    The world's South Pacific to tremble from the great discord -
    Harmony thus being broken, towards Heaven the head uplifting -
    The mouth engulfed, swimming in blood, unable to speak a word -
    The face on the ground anointed with Milk And Honey recording
    The Mars lunar conjunct of 8 December 2022 was an occultation, so astronomically close it was a sort of eclipse.

    The Saturnin interval following the Saturn lunar trine ends with the Neptune lunar square (6:13 pm CET).

    Dusk (4:45 pm CET) causes Fortune to leap from 21 degrees 39 minutes Sagittarius (slightly above the Ecliptic) to 11 degrees 8 minutes in the same sign, slightly below the Ecliptic.

    Then Venus has its debasing moment reaching the Descendant 8 December 2022 5:32 pm CET [/ 11:32 am EST / 8:32 am PST]: this arrives when Fortune is at 22 degrees 28 minutes Sagittarius, in direct opposition with the Moon at 22 degrees 18 minutes Gemini.
    The Sun and Mars remain roughly in opposition at a slightly different angle.

    So the Venus falling for Geneva 8 December 2022 5:32pm CET is the presumed triggering condition for the double cataclysm of fire and flood.

    Also at that moment the Vertex opposes Ouranos along the Sixth and Twelfth House cusps.

    It is not until the Neptune lunar square that the genuine Saturnin interval concludes.

    Since Brittney Griner was released in a swap for Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, who had served eleven years of a twenty-five year sentence, this situation could apply to the theme of 'one captive eating the other' from III.13 and IV.38.

    Viktor Bout could be the proud or conceited one who escapes captivity in II.92.

    The female athlete (Gymnique) captive held as hostage from IV.41 seems applicable, unclear about line 2 where guards are deceived by night.

    A captive lady is conducted through Turkey in IV.58, uncertain if that was the route.

    In VII.18 there is a captive lady who had woven peace.

    Perhaps relating to Bout, IX.92 has a freed captive speaking and acting falsely.

    The details within each of these quatrains should be examined further for potential current confluences.

    II.92

    Fire color of gold in the sky viewed from land
    Struck from the high-born, marvelous deed accomplished
    Great human murder, the nephew of the great one taken
    Deaths as spectacles, the conceited one escaped

    The high-born one could be Jupiter at Geneva's Vault Apex. The nephew phrase is cryptic.

    III.13

    By lightning in the arc, gold and silver melted
    Of the two captives one will consume the other
    For the city the greatest extension
    When submerged the fleet will swim

    Again this presents the glittering metals theme of V.66, like II.92 - and -

    IV.38

    Before the assault one will eat the other
    Melted metal will follow the trail of blood

    Finally, a very clear picture of Brittney Griner as 'Gymnique' -

    IV.41

    Gymnique sexe captive par otage
    Viendra de nuit custodes decevoir

    Female athlete held captive as hostage
    Custodians will come to be deceived by night

    So the Griner release appears to be yet another precursor for the double cataclysm.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Thu Dec 8 08:58:17 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    If the onset arrived with Saturn at the Geneva Descendant 6 December 2022 10:01 PM CET, the Neptune lunar square should present a time about 44 hours later, so the catastrophic sequence easily allows sufficient time for the three nights
    to Warn' prophecy of V.83 to manifest.

    *

    Back to The Beatles, although Paul McCartney started writing "When I'm Sixty-Four" much earlier than the Sgt Pepper sessions, his father was turning the title age (born 7 July - same as Richard Starkey - in 1902) circa 1967. While the
    numeric age is close to presumed retirement for the lyrical theme, the number 64 is also the total number of hexagrams in the I Ching Chinese divination method.

    The sequence in the tune where the resonant bell alternates with George Martin playing clarinet suggests,

    'The Changes Outlined In A Book -'

    <Bell>

    'Written -'

    <Bell>

    '...Back In China..'
    This timing being correct would explain why no female saint was convincingly derived for the final line of I.94 -

    Dame par force de frayeur honoree

    Lady by force of terror honored

    The report of the recent death of celebrity actress Kirstie Alley could be what was intended, in another real-world prediction unexpectedly fulfilled.
    One site gives Kirstie Alley's birth time as 2 pm local CST, on 12 January 1951, in Wichita, Kansas.

    https://aaps.space/kundli/kirstie-alley/

    I found a near-trine at 2 pm CST between Jupiter at 7 degrees Pisces, and Ouranos at 6 degrees 50 minutes Cancer.

    Then the Vertex slips through Scorpio to make a Grand Trine around 2:36 pm CST.

    It is odd to notice the word 'Vitrix' in V.18, regarding the solution for Saint Felix of Valois --

    Celebrera son Vitrix l'hecatombe

    There is a slight difference between Vitrix and Vertex: Vitrix is translated as Conqueress, but the meaning is that Trinitarian Felix would die forlorn from grief about the Grand Trine employed in a mass slaughter prophecy. But it should be
    considered that having the Vertex complete a Grand Trine in the natal chart could make Kirstie Alley the Lady of the Vertex whose life would be celebrated during the Hecatomb-Sacrifice.

    His Vertex Lady will be celebrated during the Sacrifice

    The Victor of VI.70 would be Saint Victor of Piacenza with the 7 December feast.

    In IV.95 line 4 the use of Victor is ambiguously followed by 'puine' which could indicate Mercury as solar cadet.

    Victor puine en Armonique terre

    Victor, cadet into Brittany territory

    The same saint Victor of 7 December in 2022 is within the Great Mercury Reign, as would be 9 December as Brittany soil, via feast for Saint Boduc.

    The Great Mercury Reign ends when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 around 5 am CET.
    A further moment before the Saturnin-defined interval ends in less than an hour (10:40 pm CET / 4:40 pm EST) has Venus at the Fifth House cusp, and the Moon as vertical Apex of the vestiges of its Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, appearing
    Upright, so that the grouping with Venus is below what would have been the Balance line oriented another way.

    The Mercury Reign cannot be the time of onset, when the Saturnin period precedes as when the worst happens.
    If eulogizing and bereavement for Kirstie Alley is part of the prophecy, the fire-&-flood catastrophe seems very close indeed.

    The final line of VI.70 implies the event will not be satisfied with anything except the sole title 'Victor,' now implying the 7 December feast for Saint Victor of Piacenza.

    So not far into the Great Mercury Reign for X.79, yet clearly beyond the immediately prior Saturnin interval.

    Par Saturnins endurera le pire

    By Saturnins the worst will be endured

    [V.24]

    Les Saturnins brules par les meuniers

    The Saturnins burned by the millers

    [VI.17]

    So the early portion of the Great Mercury Reign, ensuing from the Saturnin period, appears to be the cataclysmic onset time - on 7 December 2022 specifically.

    A little bit after Sunset in Geneva is when the critical sequence commences on that evening.

    Sunset at 4:45 pm CET brings the Fortune jump from slightly below the Ecliptic to slightly above, not a big change due to the solar-lunar near opposition.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point at 5:02 pm CET, with Fortune then nearing Venus.

    The critical triggering condition may be when Venus is conjoined by Fortune 7 December 2022 5:08 pm CET: not only is it strange timing, just before Venus falls beneath the horizon, but also the East Point comes into a position where it
    reconstitutes the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, eliminating need for the progressed Moon.

    As this East Point transitory Grand Trine forms at 5:09 pm CET, the Vertex is with the South Node - that sudden Grand Trine could be the 'Good Omen' that besieges a city in II.66.

    The East Point connection is broken before Venus reaches the Descendant, happening at 5:30 pm CET.

    So this particular prophecy was given in stages rather than focusing on a single moment, full of enigmatic remarks that seem sometimes conflicting or imprecise.

    The Venus-Fortune conjunction is at 7 December 2022 11:08 am EST / 8:08 am PST.
    There seems to be a connection with the anniversary of the 8 December 1980 event that ended hopes for a reunion of The Beatles, foretold in I.57 as stated prior.

    In VI.70 the seer guides through the 2-3 December 2022 lunar and solar aspects with Chiron, identifies the further lunar conjunct as Ouranos (Heavens) around 5 December, then alludes to the 7 December feast for Saint Victor Piacenza as a
    necessary date to reach.

    In II.66 the opening line foretold the 28 October 2022 Pelosi home invasion hammer attack; then the 4 December 2022 situation at Geneva Dawn was described, when Fortune made a jump from the position of Pallas. The final line suggests finding an
    ironic 'Good Omen' by which the city would be besieged.

    In V.18 Saint Felix of Valois as Trinitarian with 20 November feast was invoked, hinting at a woman with a Grand Trine involving the Vertex (Vitrix) in her natal chart: this suggests the recent passing of Kirstie Alley, with a Jupiter-Ouranos-
    Vertex Grand Trine for Wichita 12 January 1951 2:36 pm CST, is the Lady honored or celebrated through the time of massive fatalities from the force of terror incident (I.94).

    In V.66 the 25 October 2022 solar eclipse seems the subject of the 'gold engraving' in the final line, because it coincided with the feast of Trajan martyr Saint Minias of Florence. The 'Sun and Moon' in line 3 are associated with glittering
    metals, however this is not necessarily a conjunction; another Trajan martyr (from the same year 250) feast was found 5 December for Saint Bassus of Nice.

    In V.42 the Revelation Cup of Wrath theme is revealed through the angels administering the dark task of delivering Divine Fury, with a focus on the Black Forest region (suggesting Geneva) for the building of a fire; the references to a Tavern and
    Lombardy match the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting into 20 November 2022, via feast for Saint Benignus. Feast for Saint Mirocles of Milan made 3 December another Lombardy date.

    The 4 December date corresponded with numerous potential matches: Saint Bernard degli Uberti for Parma in VII.5; Saint Clement of Alexandria as the Bible reader of V.83; Saint Apro for Lyons (VIII.34) and Gaul (X.58).

    The Saturnin period has been defined as a resumed Vestal Reign, leading into the supremacy of Great Mercury (X.79), which will last until Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    Of two notable anniversaries, the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and the 8 December 1980 assassination of John Lennon, the latter seems more likely to be critically indicated, from observing the celestial movements.

    Before Dawn for Geneva 8 December 2022 6:28 am CET there will be an augmented Sagittarius Sun - Gemini Mars opposition (both at 16 degrees 5 minutes): the Moon will have only surpassed Mars (the next lunar conjunct after Ouranos) by a fraction of
    a degree, so they appear together; and the Sun will be at the East Point. The chart looks especially ominous, because Fortune is at the Descendant, reconstituting a Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres (that originated as a Lunar Grand Trine). This is likely
    the condition hinted by 'Sol et Lune' from V.66.

    When Dawn arrives for Geneva at 8:11 am CET, since the Sun and Moon are in opposition the jump for Fortune is a slight distance, staying in Gemini with a leap from around 3 degrees to the Moon's position past 17.5 degrees.

    When Venus rises at 9:05 am CET, it is clearly not going to be replay of the 9-11 attacks, where Mercury was rising locally at event onset: nothing seems engaged then.

    A different story emerges.

    Those which had been perceived as Under The Balance 17 November 2022 12:47 am CET become background identification for V.42, meaning the Sun, Venus, and Mercury, will cross the Midheaven point in succession, as the Gemini Moon moves towards its
    trine with Aquarian Saturn past twenty degrees (IX.44, 72).

    The Sun at Midheaven 12:28 pm CET does not appear very ominous.

    When Venus arrives at Midheaven 8 December 2022 1:18 pm CET [/ 7:18 am EST / 4:18 am PST], the Vertex and Fortune are clustered with Ceres at the Descendant; and the Moon is eleven minutes of a degree from its trine with Saturn.

    The implication is the cataclysm occurs when Venus is at the Apex (non-skewed Prime Vertical), exalted over Geneva's celestial Vault, and the lunar trine with Saturn is the prominent fateful aspect. This timing precludes Mercury reaching
    Midheaven before the onset: and when Midheaven is midway between Venus and Mercury at 1:27 pm CET, the Vertex drops to the Descendant, as a possible secondary triggering condition nine minutes after Venus at Midheaven.

    Mercury reaching Midheaven in the seer's version is grouped along with Venus, although that incident at 1:38 pm CET would invalidate the 'Venus as Mystery Babylon' theme, if the fiery explosion happens subsequently.

    Saturn has its lunar trine at 1:40 pm CET, with both Saturn and the Moon positioned at 20 degrees 21 minutes in their respective signs, coinciding closely with Mercury at the Midheaven point.

    The next lunar aspect is a square with Neptune 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET, suggesting the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3, presumably while the sustained trembling is an ongoing reality. The US state of Georgia runoff election having its
    result determined recently completes the 'newly-elected' portion of VI.21, with 'great sustained trembling' to follow; the remainder of VI.21 concerned the country of Georgia in an uprising circa August 2008.

    The rulership of Great Mercury (X.79) terminates when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET, yet that timing is not clearly associated with anything specifically. Applying the VII.5 scheduling for the two inexplicable nights that
    descend suggests perhaps a full day of unusual vibrations and sensations, leading into an otherwise normal night when the sustained trembling finally subsides.
    The brief reappearance of the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres through Fortune being fortuitously positioned at the Descendant during the Mars solar opposition, augmented by the separate yet coordinated Moon and East point placements, as an
    isolated incident clearly manifests the menacing 'Good Omen' for the final line of II.66, to restate the obvious.

    The Sun-Mars opposition of 8 December 2022 is not itself the time of onset, but a short-term precursor that could be mistaken for an auspicious occurrence: a bad omen masquerading as a good one. The setup for the actual incident to debase Venus
    arrives swiftly from that final sign.

    The Mobile Sign of I.54 arrived earlier, with Venus at the Nadir under the Balance for Geneva during the partisan determination of the US House of Representatives; V.42 referred back to that 17 November 2022 situation, while looking forward to 8
    December with Venus at Midheaven.

    My theory of the Saturnin-Vestal period does not seem to be necessary or correct: the Saturn lunar trine at the time of onset is sufficient for the 'Saturnin' term, having a timely connection. However the Great Mercury Reign does seem properly
    assessed.

    The 8 December 2022 is the 42nd year since the 1980 assassination of John Lennon, which was the subject of I.57; it is also the feast of the Immaculate Conception, referring to the spiritual purity of Christ's Mother Mary.

    Par grand discord la terre tremblera
    Accord rompu dressant la tete au ciel
    Bouche sanglante dans le sang nagera
    Au sol la face ointe de lait and miel

    The world's South Pacific to tremble from the great discord -
    Harmony thus being broken, towards Heaven the head uplifting -
    The mouth engulfed, swimming in blood, unable to speak a word -
    The face on the ground anointed with Milk And Honey recording
    The Mars lunar conjunct of 8 December 2022 was an occultation, so astronomically close it was a sort of eclipse.

    The Saturnin interval following the Saturn lunar trine ends with the Neptune lunar square (6:13 pm CET).

    Dusk (4:45 pm CET) causes Fortune to leap from 21 degrees 39 minutes Sagittarius (slightly above the Ecliptic) to 11 degrees 8 minutes in the same sign, slightly below the Ecliptic.

    Then Venus has its debasing moment reaching the Descendant 8 December 2022 5:32 pm CET [/ 11:32 am EST / 8:32 am PST]: this arrives when Fortune is at 22 degrees 28 minutes Sagittarius, in direct opposition with the Moon at 22 degrees 18 minutes
    Gemini. The Sun and Mars remain roughly in opposition at a slightly different angle.

    So the Venus falling for Geneva 8 December 2022 5:32pm CET is the presumed triggering condition for the double cataclysm of fire and flood.

    Also at that moment the Vertex opposes Ouranos along the Sixth and Twelfth House cusps.

    It is not until the Neptune lunar square that the genuine Saturnin interval concludes.
    Since Brittney Griner was released in a swap for Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, who had served eleven years of a twenty-five year sentence, this situation could apply to the theme of 'one captive eating the other' from III.13 and IV.38.

    Viktor Bout could be the proud or conceited one who escapes captivity in II.92.

    The female athlete (Gymnique) captive held as hostage from IV.41 seems applicable, unclear about line 2 where guards are deceived by night.

    A captive lady is conducted through Turkey in IV.58, uncertain if that was the route.

    In VII.18 there is a captive lady who had woven peace.

    Perhaps relating to Bout, IX.92 has a freed captive speaking and acting falsely.

    The details within each of these quatrains should be examined further for potential current confluences.

    II.92

    Fire color of gold in the sky viewed from land
    Struck from the high-born, marvelous deed accomplished
    Great human murder, the nephew of the great one taken
    Deaths as spectacles, the conceited one escaped

    The high-born one could be Jupiter at Geneva's Vault Apex. The nephew phrase is cryptic.

    III.13

    By lightning in the arc, gold and silver melted
    Of the two captives one will consume the other
    For the city the greatest extension
    When submerged the fleet will swim

    Again this presents the glittering metals theme of V.66, like II.92 - and -

    IV.38

    Before the assault one will eat the other
    Melted metal will follow the trail of blood

    Finally, a very clear picture of Brittney Griner as 'Gymnique' -

    IV.41

    Gymnique sexe captive par otage
    Viendra de nuit custodes decevoir

    Female athlete held captive as hostage
    Custodians will come to be deceived by night

    So the Griner release appears to be yet another precursor for the double cataclysm.

    Venus to be conjoined by Fortune 8 December 2022 5:58 pm CET, fifteen minutes before the genuine Saturnin period becomes the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity situation.

    When reversing the name John Lennon, the result sounded like Men of Mars' - the Moon past the occultation conjunct with Mars seems ominous.

    Three Grand Trines were found in the assassination scenario for John in 1980: before, during and after, in a short span of time with a planetary bucket configuration, using conceptual points and asteroid outliers.

    An upright Grand Trine (during the murder) with the Midheaven point including the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn as one of its base points, with the Vertex on the other side.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Thu Dec 8 10:04:17 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    The Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3 appears to suggest when the sustained trembling will finally cease, at the Neptune lunar square aspect of 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET. Since this happens after Sunset (4:45 pm CET for Geneva),
    this should be the commencement of the third 'normal' night from VII.5.

    If the onset arrived with Saturn at the Geneva Descendant 6 December 2022 10:01 PM CET, the Neptune lunar square should present a time about 44 hours later, so the catastrophic sequence easily allows sufficient time for the three
    nights to Warn' prophecy of V.83 to manifest.

    *

    Back to The Beatles, although Paul McCartney started writing "When I'm Sixty-Four" much earlier than the Sgt Pepper sessions, his father was turning the title age (born 7 July - same as Richard Starkey - in 1902) circa 1967. While the
    numeric age is close to presumed retirement for the lyrical theme, the number 64 is also the total number of hexagrams in the I Ching Chinese divination method.

    The sequence in the tune where the resonant bell alternates with George Martin playing clarinet suggests,

    'The Changes Outlined In A Book -'

    <Bell>

    'Written -'

    <Bell>

    '...Back In China..'
    This timing being correct would explain why no female saint was convincingly derived for the final line of I.94 -

    Dame par force de frayeur honoree

    Lady by force of terror honored

    The report of the recent death of celebrity actress Kirstie Alley could be what was intended, in another real-world prediction unexpectedly fulfilled.
    One site gives Kirstie Alley's birth time as 2 pm local CST, on 12 January 1951, in Wichita, Kansas.

    https://aaps.space/kundli/kirstie-alley/

    I found a near-trine at 2 pm CST between Jupiter at 7 degrees Pisces, and Ouranos at 6 degrees 50 minutes Cancer.

    Then the Vertex slips through Scorpio to make a Grand Trine around 2:36 pm CST.

    It is odd to notice the word 'Vitrix' in V.18, regarding the solution for Saint Felix of Valois --

    Celebrera son Vitrix l'hecatombe

    There is a slight difference between Vitrix and Vertex: Vitrix is translated as Conqueress, but the meaning is that Trinitarian Felix would die forlorn from grief about the Grand Trine employed in a mass slaughter prophecy. But it should
    be considered that having the Vertex complete a Grand Trine in the natal chart could make Kirstie Alley the Lady of the Vertex whose life would be celebrated during the Hecatomb-Sacrifice.

    His Vertex Lady will be celebrated during the Sacrifice

    The Victor of VI.70 would be Saint Victor of Piacenza with the 7 December feast.

    In IV.95 line 4 the use of Victor is ambiguously followed by 'puine' which could indicate Mercury as solar cadet.

    Victor puine en Armonique terre

    Victor, cadet into Brittany territory

    The same saint Victor of 7 December in 2022 is within the Great Mercury Reign, as would be 9 December as Brittany soil, via feast for Saint Boduc.

    The Great Mercury Reign ends when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 around 5 am CET.
    A further moment before the Saturnin-defined interval ends in less than an hour (10:40 pm CET / 4:40 pm EST) has Venus at the Fifth House cusp, and the Moon as vertical Apex of the vestiges of its Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, appearing
    Upright, so that the grouping with Venus is below what would have been the Balance line oriented another way.

    The Mercury Reign cannot be the time of onset, when the Saturnin period precedes as when the worst happens.
    If eulogizing and bereavement for Kirstie Alley is part of the prophecy, the fire-&-flood catastrophe seems very close indeed.

    The final line of VI.70 implies the event will not be satisfied with anything except the sole title 'Victor,' now implying the 7 December feast for Saint Victor of Piacenza.

    So not far into the Great Mercury Reign for X.79, yet clearly beyond the immediately prior Saturnin interval.

    Par Saturnins endurera le pire

    By Saturnins the worst will be endured

    [V.24]

    Les Saturnins brules par les meuniers

    The Saturnins burned by the millers

    [VI.17]

    So the early portion of the Great Mercury Reign, ensuing from the Saturnin period, appears to be the cataclysmic onset time - on 7 December 2022 specifically.

    A little bit after Sunset in Geneva is when the critical sequence commences on that evening.

    Sunset at 4:45 pm CET brings the Fortune jump from slightly below the Ecliptic to slightly above, not a big change due to the solar-lunar near opposition.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point at 5:02 pm CET, with Fortune then nearing Venus.

    The critical triggering condition may be when Venus is conjoined by Fortune 7 December 2022 5:08 pm CET: not only is it strange timing, just before Venus falls beneath the horizon, but also the East Point comes into a position where it
    reconstitutes the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, eliminating need for the progressed Moon.

    As this East Point transitory Grand Trine forms at 5:09 pm CET, the Vertex is with the South Node - that sudden Grand Trine could be the 'Good Omen' that besieges a city in II.66.

    The East Point connection is broken before Venus reaches the Descendant, happening at 5:30 pm CET.

    So this particular prophecy was given in stages rather than focusing on a single moment, full of enigmatic remarks that seem sometimes conflicting or imprecise.

    The Venus-Fortune conjunction is at 7 December 2022 11:08 am EST / 8:08 am PST.
    There seems to be a connection with the anniversary of the 8 December 1980 event that ended hopes for a reunion of The Beatles, foretold in I.57 as stated prior.

    In VI.70 the seer guides through the 2-3 December 2022 lunar and solar aspects with Chiron, identifies the further lunar conjunct as Ouranos (Heavens) around 5 December, then alludes to the 7 December feast for Saint Victor Piacenza as a
    necessary date to reach.

    In II.66 the opening line foretold the 28 October 2022 Pelosi home invasion hammer attack; then the 4 December 2022 situation at Geneva Dawn was described, when Fortune made a jump from the position of Pallas. The final line suggests finding an
    ironic 'Good Omen' by which the city would be besieged.

    In V.18 Saint Felix of Valois as Trinitarian with 20 November feast was invoked, hinting at a woman with a Grand Trine involving the Vertex (Vitrix) in her natal chart: this suggests the recent passing of Kirstie Alley, with a Jupiter-Ouranos-
    Vertex Grand Trine for Wichita 12 January 1951 2:36 pm CST, is the Lady honored or celebrated through the time of massive fatalities from the force of terror incident (I.94).

    In V.66 the 25 October 2022 solar eclipse seems the subject of the 'gold engraving' in the final line, because it coincided with the feast of Trajan martyr Saint Minias of Florence. The 'Sun and Moon' in line 3 are associated with glittering
    metals, however this is not necessarily a conjunction; another Trajan martyr (from the same year 250) feast was found 5 December for Saint Bassus of Nice.

    In V.42 the Revelation Cup of Wrath theme is revealed through the angels administering the dark task of delivering Divine Fury, with a focus on the Black Forest region (suggesting Geneva) for the building of a fire; the references to a Tavern
    and Lombardy match the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting into 20 November 2022, via feast for Saint Benignus. Feast for Saint Mirocles of Milan made 3 December another Lombardy date.

    The 4 December date corresponded with numerous potential matches: Saint Bernard degli Uberti for Parma in VII.5; Saint Clement of Alexandria as the Bible reader of V.83; Saint Apro for Lyons (VIII.34) and Gaul (X.58).

    The Saturnin period has been defined as a resumed Vestal Reign, leading into the supremacy of Great Mercury (X.79), which will last until Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    Of two notable anniversaries, the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and the 8 December 1980 assassination of John Lennon, the latter seems more likely to be critically indicated, from observing the celestial movements.

    Before Dawn for Geneva 8 December 2022 6:28 am CET there will be an augmented Sagittarius Sun - Gemini Mars opposition (both at 16 degrees 5 minutes): the Moon will have only surpassed Mars (the next lunar conjunct after Ouranos) by a fraction
    of a degree, so they appear together; and the Sun will be at the East Point. The chart looks especially ominous, because Fortune is at the Descendant, reconstituting a Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres (that originated as a Lunar Grand Trine). This is
    likely the condition hinted by 'Sol et Lune' from V.66.

    When Dawn arrives for Geneva at 8:11 am CET, since the Sun and Moon are in opposition the jump for Fortune is a slight distance, staying in Gemini with a leap from around 3 degrees to the Moon's position past 17.5 degrees.

    When Venus rises at 9:05 am CET, it is clearly not going to be replay of the 9-11 attacks, where Mercury was rising locally at event onset: nothing seems engaged then.

    A different story emerges.

    Those which had been perceived as Under The Balance 17 November 2022 12:47 am CET become background identification for V.42, meaning the Sun, Venus, and Mercury, will cross the Midheaven point in succession, as the Gemini Moon moves towards its
    trine with Aquarian Saturn past twenty degrees (IX.44, 72).

    The Sun at Midheaven 12:28 pm CET does not appear very ominous.

    When Venus arrives at Midheaven 8 December 2022 1:18 pm CET [/ 7:18 am EST / 4:18 am PST], the Vertex and Fortune are clustered with Ceres at the Descendant; and the Moon is eleven minutes of a degree from its trine with Saturn.

    The implication is the cataclysm occurs when Venus is at the Apex (non-skewed Prime Vertical), exalted over Geneva's celestial Vault, and the lunar trine with Saturn is the prominent fateful aspect. This timing precludes Mercury reaching
    Midheaven before the onset: and when Midheaven is midway between Venus and Mercury at 1:27 pm CET, the Vertex drops to the Descendant, as a possible secondary triggering condition nine minutes after Venus at Midheaven.

    Mercury reaching Midheaven in the seer's version is grouped along with Venus, although that incident at 1:38 pm CET would invalidate the 'Venus as Mystery Babylon' theme, if the fiery explosion happens subsequently.

    Saturn has its lunar trine at 1:40 pm CET, with both Saturn and the Moon positioned at 20 degrees 21 minutes in their respective signs, coinciding closely with Mercury at the Midheaven point.

    The next lunar aspect is a square with Neptune 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET, suggesting the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3, presumably while the sustained trembling is an ongoing reality. The US state of Georgia runoff election having its
    result determined recently completes the 'newly-elected' portion of VI.21, with 'great sustained trembling' to follow; the remainder of VI.21 concerned the country of Georgia in an uprising circa August 2008.

    The rulership of Great Mercury (X.79) terminates when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET, yet that timing is not clearly associated with anything specifically. Applying the VII.5 scheduling for the two inexplicable nights that
    descend suggests perhaps a full day of unusual vibrations and sensations, leading into an otherwise normal night when the sustained trembling finally subsides.
    The brief reappearance of the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres through Fortune being fortuitously positioned at the Descendant during the Mars solar opposition, augmented by the separate yet coordinated Moon and East point placements, as an
    isolated incident clearly manifests the menacing 'Good Omen' for the final line of II.66, to restate the obvious.

    The Sun-Mars opposition of 8 December 2022 is not itself the time of onset, but a short-term precursor that could be mistaken for an auspicious occurrence: a bad omen masquerading as a good one. The setup for the actual incident to debase Venus
    arrives swiftly from that final sign.

    The Mobile Sign of I.54 arrived earlier, with Venus at the Nadir under the Balance for Geneva during the partisan determination of the US House of Representatives; V.42 referred back to that 17 November 2022 situation, while looking forward to 8
    December with Venus at Midheaven.

    My theory of the Saturnin-Vestal period does not seem to be necessary or correct: the Saturn lunar trine at the time of onset is sufficient for the 'Saturnin' term, having a timely connection. However the Great Mercury Reign does seem properly
    assessed.

    The 8 December 2022 is the 42nd year since the 1980 assassination of John Lennon, which was the subject of I.57; it is also the feast of the Immaculate Conception, referring to the spiritual purity of Christ's Mother Mary.

    Par grand discord la terre tremblera
    Accord rompu dressant la tete au ciel
    Bouche sanglante dans le sang nagera
    Au sol la face ointe de lait and miel

    The world's South Pacific to tremble from the great discord -
    Harmony thus being broken, towards Heaven the head uplifting -
    The mouth engulfed, swimming in blood, unable to speak a word -
    The face on the ground anointed with Milk And Honey recording
    The Mars lunar conjunct of 8 December 2022 was an occultation, so astronomically close it was a sort of eclipse.

    The Saturnin interval following the Saturn lunar trine ends with the Neptune lunar square (6:13 pm CET).

    Dusk (4:45 pm CET) causes Fortune to leap from 21 degrees 39 minutes Sagittarius (slightly above the Ecliptic) to 11 degrees 8 minutes in the same sign, slightly below the Ecliptic.

    Then Venus has its debasing moment reaching the Descendant 8 December 2022 5:32 pm CET [/ 11:32 am EST / 8:32 am PST]: this arrives when Fortune is at 22 degrees 28 minutes Sagittarius, in direct opposition with the Moon at 22 degrees 18 minutes
    Gemini. The Sun and Mars remain roughly in opposition at a slightly different angle.

    So the Venus falling for Geneva 8 December 2022 5:32pm CET is the presumed triggering condition for the double cataclysm of fire and flood.

    Also at that moment the Vertex opposes Ouranos along the Sixth and Twelfth House cusps.

    It is not until the Neptune lunar square that the genuine Saturnin interval concludes.
    Since Brittney Griner was released in a swap for Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, who had served eleven years of a twenty-five year sentence, this situation could apply to the theme of 'one captive eating the other' from III.13 and IV.38.

    Viktor Bout could be the proud or conceited one who escapes captivity in II.92.

    The female athlete (Gymnique) captive held as hostage from IV.41 seems applicable, unclear about line 2 where guards are deceived by night.

    A captive lady is conducted through Turkey in IV.58, uncertain if that was the route.

    In VII.18 there is a captive lady who had woven peace.

    Perhaps relating to Bout, IX.92 has a freed captive speaking and acting falsely.

    The details within each of these quatrains should be examined further for potential current confluences.

    II.92

    Fire color of gold in the sky viewed from land
    Struck from the high-born, marvelous deed accomplished
    Great human murder, the nephew of the great one taken
    Deaths as spectacles, the conceited one escaped

    The high-born one could be Jupiter at Geneva's Vault Apex. The nephew phrase is cryptic.

    III.13

    By lightning in the arc, gold and silver melted
    Of the two captives one will consume the other
    For the city the greatest extension
    When submerged the fleet will swim

    Again this presents the glittering metals theme of V.66, like II.92 - and -

    IV.38

    Before the assault one will eat the other
    Melted metal will follow the trail of blood

    Finally, a very clear picture of Brittney Griner as 'Gymnique' -

    IV.41

    Gymnique sexe captive par otage
    Viendra de nuit custodes decevoir

    Female athlete held captive as hostage
    Custodians will come to be deceived by night

    So the Griner release appears to be yet another precursor for the double cataclysm.
    Venus to be conjoined by Fortune 8 December 2022 5:58 pm CET, fifteen minutes before the genuine Saturnin period becomes the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity situation.

    When reversing the name John Lennon, the result sounded like Men of Mars' - the Moon past the occultation conjunct with Mars seems ominous.

    Three Grand Trines were found in the assassination scenario for John in 1980: before, during and after, in a short span of time with a planetary bucket configuration, using conceptual points and asteroid outliers.

    An upright Grand Trine (during the murder) with the Midheaven point including the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn as one of its base points, with the Vertex on the other side.

    Since this massively fatal cataclysmic incident is apparently imminent, last-minute reassessments have to take into account the actual circumstances.

    The interval between the Neptune lunar square [8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET] and the Pallas lunar adjacency [9 December 2022 1:04 am CET] had Saturn reaching the Descendant 9:54 pm CET, however this did not involve Venus.

    Reconsidering II.66, IX.44, III.3 and relevant quatrains brings a new scenario.

    The Pallas lunar adjacency after the Neptune lunar square could be the 'Palace' by which people are trapped in II.66: so the perplexity of Corinth and Ephesus would be the prior condition that is disturbed.

    Going beyond the Pallas adjacency is the fateful moment when Venus is debased at the Nadir in the Geneva chart, 9 December 2022 1:19 am CET (only fifteen minutes later).

    The subsequent lunar aspect is an adjacency with Lilith (very near Pallas) at 1:59 am CET.

    Venus at the Nadir does not find Saturn significantly engaged for IX.44 - however, since Fortune moves swiftly, it arrives into adjacency with Saturn (both at 20 degrees 24 minutes) 9 December 2022 1:25 am CET [/ 8 December 2022 7:25 pm EST / 4:25 pm PST]
    .

    The Saturn-Fortune adjacency is a minor aspect that might be difficult to detect even with advanced programs.

    And Venus will still be identifiably close to the Nadir, with only six minutes having elapsed from that point: Mercury does not reach the Nadir until 1:39 am CET, nearly fifteen minutes after the critical subtle participation of Saturn.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Thu Dec 8 18:47:58 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    Saturn reaches the Descendant 6 December 2022 10:01 pm CET [/ 4:01 pm EST / 1:01 pm PST], with Vesta conjoined by Fortune: this is now expected to trigger the fire-and-flood double cataclysm, hinted by IX.44.

    The Saturnin period gives way to the Great Mercury Reign (X.79) at 11:10 pm CET, as Mercury reaches Capricorn.

    Vesta then follows at the Descendant 11:20 pm CET, for the 'sepulchral fire' prediction of X.6.

    The Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3 appears to suggest when the sustained trembling will finally cease, at the Neptune lunar square aspect of 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET. Since this happens after Sunset (4:45 pm CET for Geneva),
    this should be the commencement of the third 'normal' night from VII.5.

    If the onset arrived with Saturn at the Geneva Descendant 6 December 2022 10:01 PM CET, the Neptune lunar square should present a time about 44 hours later, so the catastrophic sequence easily allows sufficient time for the three
    nights to Warn' prophecy of V.83 to manifest.

    *

    Back to The Beatles, although Paul McCartney started writing "When I'm Sixty-Four" much earlier than the Sgt Pepper sessions, his father was turning the title age (born 7 July - same as Richard Starkey - in 1902) circa 1967. While
    the numeric age is close to presumed retirement for the lyrical theme, the number 64 is also the total number of hexagrams in the I Ching Chinese divination method.

    The sequence in the tune where the resonant bell alternates with George Martin playing clarinet suggests,

    'The Changes Outlined In A Book -'

    <Bell>

    'Written -'

    <Bell>

    '...Back In China..'
    This timing being correct would explain why no female saint was convincingly derived for the final line of I.94 -

    Dame par force de frayeur honoree

    Lady by force of terror honored

    The report of the recent death of celebrity actress Kirstie Alley could be what was intended, in another real-world prediction unexpectedly fulfilled.
    One site gives Kirstie Alley's birth time as 2 pm local CST, on 12 January 1951, in Wichita, Kansas.

    https://aaps.space/kundli/kirstie-alley/

    I found a near-trine at 2 pm CST between Jupiter at 7 degrees Pisces, and Ouranos at 6 degrees 50 minutes Cancer.

    Then the Vertex slips through Scorpio to make a Grand Trine around 2:36 pm CST.

    It is odd to notice the word 'Vitrix' in V.18, regarding the solution for Saint Felix of Valois --

    Celebrera son Vitrix l'hecatombe

    There is a slight difference between Vitrix and Vertex: Vitrix is translated as Conqueress, but the meaning is that Trinitarian Felix would die forlorn from grief about the Grand Trine employed in a mass slaughter prophecy. But it
    should be considered that having the Vertex complete a Grand Trine in the natal chart could make Kirstie Alley the Lady of the Vertex whose life would be celebrated during the Hecatomb-Sacrifice.

    His Vertex Lady will be celebrated during the Sacrifice

    The Victor of VI.70 would be Saint Victor of Piacenza with the 7 December feast.

    In IV.95 line 4 the use of Victor is ambiguously followed by 'puine' which could indicate Mercury as solar cadet.

    Victor puine en Armonique terre

    Victor, cadet into Brittany territory

    The same saint Victor of 7 December in 2022 is within the Great Mercury Reign, as would be 9 December as Brittany soil, via feast for Saint Boduc.

    The Great Mercury Reign ends when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 around 5 am CET.
    A further moment before the Saturnin-defined interval ends in less than an hour (10:40 pm CET / 4:40 pm EST) has Venus at the Fifth House cusp, and the Moon as vertical Apex of the vestiges of its Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres,
    appearing Upright, so that the grouping with Venus is below what would have been the Balance line oriented another way.

    The Mercury Reign cannot be the time of onset, when the Saturnin period precedes as when the worst happens.
    If eulogizing and bereavement for Kirstie Alley is part of the prophecy, the fire-&-flood catastrophe seems very close indeed.

    The final line of VI.70 implies the event will not be satisfied with anything except the sole title 'Victor,' now implying the 7 December feast for Saint Victor of Piacenza.

    So not far into the Great Mercury Reign for X.79, yet clearly beyond the immediately prior Saturnin interval.

    Par Saturnins endurera le pire

    By Saturnins the worst will be endured

    [V.24]

    Les Saturnins brules par les meuniers

    The Saturnins burned by the millers

    [VI.17]

    So the early portion of the Great Mercury Reign, ensuing from the Saturnin period, appears to be the cataclysmic onset time - on 7 December 2022 specifically.

    A little bit after Sunset in Geneva is when the critical sequence commences on that evening.

    Sunset at 4:45 pm CET brings the Fortune jump from slightly below the Ecliptic to slightly above, not a big change due to the solar-lunar near opposition.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point at 5:02 pm CET, with Fortune then nearing Venus.

    The critical triggering condition may be when Venus is conjoined by Fortune 7 December 2022 5:08 pm CET: not only is it strange timing, just before Venus falls beneath the horizon, but also the East Point comes into a position where it
    reconstitutes the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, eliminating need for the progressed Moon.

    As this East Point transitory Grand Trine forms at 5:09 pm CET, the Vertex is with the South Node - that sudden Grand Trine could be the 'Good Omen' that besieges a city in II.66.

    The East Point connection is broken before Venus reaches the Descendant, happening at 5:30 pm CET.

    So this particular prophecy was given in stages rather than focusing on a single moment, full of enigmatic remarks that seem sometimes conflicting or imprecise.

    The Venus-Fortune conjunction is at 7 December 2022 11:08 am EST / 8:08 am PST.
    There seems to be a connection with the anniversary of the 8 December 1980 event that ended hopes for a reunion of The Beatles, foretold in I.57 as stated prior.

    In VI.70 the seer guides through the 2-3 December 2022 lunar and solar aspects with Chiron, identifies the further lunar conjunct as Ouranos (Heavens) around 5 December, then alludes to the 7 December feast for Saint Victor Piacenza as a
    necessary date to reach.

    In II.66 the opening line foretold the 28 October 2022 Pelosi home invasion hammer attack; then the 4 December 2022 situation at Geneva Dawn was described, when Fortune made a jump from the position of Pallas. The final line suggests finding
    an ironic 'Good Omen' by which the city would be besieged.

    In V.18 Saint Felix of Valois as Trinitarian with 20 November feast was invoked, hinting at a woman with a Grand Trine involving the Vertex (Vitrix) in her natal chart: this suggests the recent passing of Kirstie Alley, with a Jupiter-Ouranos-
    Vertex Grand Trine for Wichita 12 January 1951 2:36 pm CST, is the Lady honored or celebrated through the time of massive fatalities from the force of terror incident (I.94).

    In V.66 the 25 October 2022 solar eclipse seems the subject of the 'gold engraving' in the final line, because it coincided with the feast of Trajan martyr Saint Minias of Florence. The 'Sun and Moon' in line 3 are associated with glittering
    metals, however this is not necessarily a conjunction; another Trajan martyr (from the same year 250) feast was found 5 December for Saint Bassus of Nice.

    In V.42 the Revelation Cup of Wrath theme is revealed through the angels administering the dark task of delivering Divine Fury, with a focus on the Black Forest region (suggesting Geneva) for the building of a fire; the references to a Tavern
    and Lombardy match the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting into 20 November 2022, via feast for Saint Benignus. Feast for Saint Mirocles of Milan made 3 December another Lombardy date.

    The 4 December date corresponded with numerous potential matches: Saint Bernard degli Uberti for Parma in VII.5; Saint Clement of Alexandria as the Bible reader of V.83; Saint Apro for Lyons (VIII.34) and Gaul (X.58).

    The Saturnin period has been defined as a resumed Vestal Reign, leading into the supremacy of Great Mercury (X.79), which will last until Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    Of two notable anniversaries, the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and the 8 December 1980 assassination of John Lennon, the latter seems more likely to be critically indicated, from observing the celestial movements.

    Before Dawn for Geneva 8 December 2022 6:28 am CET there will be an augmented Sagittarius Sun - Gemini Mars opposition (both at 16 degrees 5 minutes): the Moon will have only surpassed Mars (the next lunar conjunct after Ouranos) by a
    fraction of a degree, so they appear together; and the Sun will be at the East Point. The chart looks especially ominous, because Fortune is at the Descendant, reconstituting a Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres (that originated as a Lunar Grand Trine).
    This is likely the condition hinted by 'Sol et Lune' from V.66.

    When Dawn arrives for Geneva at 8:11 am CET, since the Sun and Moon are in opposition the jump for Fortune is a slight distance, staying in Gemini with a leap from around 3 degrees to the Moon's position past 17.5 degrees.

    When Venus rises at 9:05 am CET, it is clearly not going to be replay of the 9-11 attacks, where Mercury was rising locally at event onset: nothing seems engaged then.

    A different story emerges.

    Those which had been perceived as Under The Balance 17 November 2022 12:47 am CET become background identification for V.42, meaning the Sun, Venus, and Mercury, will cross the Midheaven point in succession, as the Gemini Moon moves towards
    its trine with Aquarian Saturn past twenty degrees (IX.44, 72).

    The Sun at Midheaven 12:28 pm CET does not appear very ominous.

    When Venus arrives at Midheaven 8 December 2022 1:18 pm CET [/ 7:18 am EST / 4:18 am PST], the Vertex and Fortune are clustered with Ceres at the Descendant; and the Moon is eleven minutes of a degree from its trine with Saturn.

    The implication is the cataclysm occurs when Venus is at the Apex (non-skewed Prime Vertical), exalted over Geneva's celestial Vault, and the lunar trine with Saturn is the prominent fateful aspect. This timing precludes Mercury reaching
    Midheaven before the onset: and when Midheaven is midway between Venus and Mercury at 1:27 pm CET, the Vertex drops to the Descendant, as a possible secondary triggering condition nine minutes after Venus at Midheaven.

    Mercury reaching Midheaven in the seer's version is grouped along with Venus, although that incident at 1:38 pm CET would invalidate the 'Venus as Mystery Babylon' theme, if the fiery explosion happens subsequently.

    Saturn has its lunar trine at 1:40 pm CET, with both Saturn and the Moon positioned at 20 degrees 21 minutes in their respective signs, coinciding closely with Mercury at the Midheaven point.

    The next lunar aspect is a square with Neptune 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET, suggesting the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3, presumably while the sustained trembling is an ongoing reality. The US state of Georgia runoff election having its
    result determined recently completes the 'newly-elected' portion of VI.21, with 'great sustained trembling' to follow; the remainder of VI.21 concerned the country of Georgia in an uprising circa August 2008.

    The rulership of Great Mercury (X.79) terminates when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET, yet that timing is not clearly associated with anything specifically. Applying the VII.5 scheduling for the two inexplicable nights
    that descend suggests perhaps a full day of unusual vibrations and sensations, leading into an otherwise normal night when the sustained trembling finally subsides.
    The brief reappearance of the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres through Fortune being fortuitously positioned at the Descendant during the Mars solar opposition, augmented by the separate yet coordinated Moon and East point placements, as an
    isolated incident clearly manifests the menacing 'Good Omen' for the final line of II.66, to restate the obvious.

    The Sun-Mars opposition of 8 December 2022 is not itself the time of onset, but a short-term precursor that could be mistaken for an auspicious occurrence: a bad omen masquerading as a good one. The setup for the actual incident to debase Venus
    arrives swiftly from that final sign.

    The Mobile Sign of I.54 arrived earlier, with Venus at the Nadir under the Balance for Geneva during the partisan determination of the US House of Representatives; V.42 referred back to that 17 November 2022 situation, while looking forward to
    8 December with Venus at Midheaven.

    My theory of the Saturnin-Vestal period does not seem to be necessary or correct: the Saturn lunar trine at the time of onset is sufficient for the 'Saturnin' term, having a timely connection. However the Great Mercury Reign does seem properly
    assessed.

    The 8 December 2022 is the 42nd year since the 1980 assassination of John Lennon, which was the subject of I.57; it is also the feast of the Immaculate Conception, referring to the spiritual purity of Christ's Mother Mary.

    Par grand discord la terre tremblera
    Accord rompu dressant la tete au ciel
    Bouche sanglante dans le sang nagera
    Au sol la face ointe de lait and miel

    The world's South Pacific to tremble from the great discord - Harmony thus being broken, towards Heaven the head uplifting -
    The mouth engulfed, swimming in blood, unable to speak a word -
    The face on the ground anointed with Milk And Honey recording
    The Mars lunar conjunct of 8 December 2022 was an occultation, so astronomically close it was a sort of eclipse.

    The Saturnin interval following the Saturn lunar trine ends with the Neptune lunar square (6:13 pm CET).

    Dusk (4:45 pm CET) causes Fortune to leap from 21 degrees 39 minutes Sagittarius (slightly above the Ecliptic) to 11 degrees 8 minutes in the same sign, slightly below the Ecliptic.

    Then Venus has its debasing moment reaching the Descendant 8 December 2022 5:32 pm CET [/ 11:32 am EST / 8:32 am PST]: this arrives when Fortune is at 22 degrees 28 minutes Sagittarius, in direct opposition with the Moon at 22 degrees 18 minutes
    Gemini. The Sun and Mars remain roughly in opposition at a slightly different angle.

    So the Venus falling for Geneva 8 December 2022 5:32pm CET is the presumed triggering condition for the double cataclysm of fire and flood.

    Also at that moment the Vertex opposes Ouranos along the Sixth and Twelfth House cusps.

    It is not until the Neptune lunar square that the genuine Saturnin interval concludes.
    Since Brittney Griner was released in a swap for Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, who had served eleven years of a twenty-five year sentence, this situation could apply to the theme of 'one captive eating the other' from III.13 and IV.38.

    Viktor Bout could be the proud or conceited one who escapes captivity in II.92.

    The female athlete (Gymnique) captive held as hostage from IV.41 seems applicable, unclear about line 2 where guards are deceived by night.

    A captive lady is conducted through Turkey in IV.58, uncertain if that was the route.

    In VII.18 there is a captive lady who had woven peace.

    Perhaps relating to Bout, IX.92 has a freed captive speaking and acting falsely.

    The details within each of these quatrains should be examined further for potential current confluences.

    II.92

    Fire color of gold in the sky viewed from land
    Struck from the high-born, marvelous deed accomplished
    Great human murder, the nephew of the great one taken
    Deaths as spectacles, the conceited one escaped

    The high-born one could be Jupiter at Geneva's Vault Apex. The nephew phrase is cryptic.

    III.13

    By lightning in the arc, gold and silver melted
    Of the two captives one will consume the other
    For the city the greatest extension
    When submerged the fleet will swim

    Again this presents the glittering metals theme of V.66, like II.92 - and -

    IV.38

    Before the assault one will eat the other
    Melted metal will follow the trail of blood

    Finally, a very clear picture of Brittney Griner as 'Gymnique' -

    IV.41

    Gymnique sexe captive par otage
    Viendra de nuit custodes decevoir

    Female athlete held captive as hostage
    Custodians will come to be deceived by night

    So the Griner release appears to be yet another precursor for the double cataclysm.
    Venus to be conjoined by Fortune 8 December 2022 5:58 pm CET, fifteen minutes before the genuine Saturnin period becomes the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity situation.

    When reversing the name John Lennon, the result sounded like Men of Mars' - the Moon past the occultation conjunct with Mars seems ominous.

    Three Grand Trines were found in the assassination scenario for John in 1980: before, during and after, in a short span of time with a planetary bucket configuration, using conceptual points and asteroid outliers.

    An upright Grand Trine (during the murder) with the Midheaven point including the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn as one of its base points, with the Vertex on the other side.
    Since this massively fatal cataclysmic incident is apparently imminent, last-minute reassessments have to take into account the actual circumstances.

    The interval between the Neptune lunar square [8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET] and the Pallas lunar adjacency [9 December 2022 1:04 am CET] had Saturn reaching the Descendant 9:54 pm CET, however this did not involve Venus.

    Reconsidering II.66, IX.44, III.3 and relevant quatrains brings a new scenario.

    The Pallas lunar adjacency after the Neptune lunar square could be the 'Palace' by which people are trapped in II.66: so the perplexity of Corinth and Ephesus would be the prior condition that is disturbed.

    Going beyond the Pallas adjacency is the fateful moment when Venus is debased at the Nadir in the Geneva chart, 9 December 2022 1:19 am CET (only fifteen minutes later).

    The subsequent lunar aspect is an adjacency with Lilith (very near Pallas) at 1:59 am CET.

    Venus at the Nadir does not find Saturn significantly engaged for IX.44 - however, since Fortune moves swiftly, it arrives into adjacency with Saturn (both at 20 degrees 24 minutes) 9 December 2022 1:25 am CET [/ 8 December 2022 7:25 pm EST / 4:25 pm
    PST].

    The Saturn-Fortune adjacency is a minor aspect that might be difficult to detect even with advanced programs.

    And Venus will still be identifiably close to the Nadir, with only six minutes having elapsed from that point: Mercury does not reach the Nadir until 1:39 am CET, nearly fifteen minutes after the critical subtle participation of Saturn.

    Current events (such as the death of Kirstie Alley, and release of Brittney Griner) have established (through their context in various quatrains) the double cataclysm of fire and flood (the Anaxagoric Revolution from the Epistle) will occur soon, before
    the Great Mercury Reign has concluded with the entry of Venus into Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    The amazing judicial astrology strongly indicates the evening of Friday, 9 December 2022 for Geneva, consulting animated local charts.

    Soon after 4 pm CET a Lunar Grand Trine forms with Vesta and the Vertex: this peaks around 4:30 pm CET, with Fortune conjoining Venus; it dissipates around 5 pm CET, as the Vertex joins the South Node. Vesta is at the Apex, tipping towards the right.

    When Dusk arrives at 4:45 pm CET, the jump for Fortune is from the position of Mercury (3 degrees 12 minutes Capricorn) to 1 degree 23 minutes Sagittarius.

    The extraordinary moment is synchronized with the perfected Mercury lunar opposition at 9 December 2022 4:55 pm CET:

    Both the Cancer Moon and Mercury in Capricorn at 4 degrees 3 minutes in their respective signs;

    Simultaneously, Saturn reaches the Midheaven point in trine with the Ascendant;

    And a new Grand Trine materializes with the East Point augmenting the trine relationship of Pluto and Ceres, rejuvenating what had been observed initially as a Lunar Grand Trine previously.

    It is as if Saturn passing the skewed Midheaven point creates an effect like cyclist Miss Gulch becoming the Wicked Witch riding a broomstick in the cyclone scene from "The Wizard Of Oz" -

    Saturn itself will convert gold to sword

    The innocuous Vertex Grand Trine vanishing as the sinister East Point Grand Trine suddenly becomes prominent happens while Venus-Babylon is still descending alone towards the Ecliptic, being made to receive the contents of the Cup of Divine Fury on her
    way down.

    Then Neptune ascends to the highest Apex of the celestial Vault, on the Eleventh House cusp, around 5 pm CET.

    The East Point Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres is pivoting on the Ceres-Fulcrum, tipping towards a balanced-level orientation for the top trine line.

    This could be the Corinth perplexity, shortly following the Saturn at Midheaven moment; the Moon as Ephesus is itself occupied in Mercury opposition. Thus the perplexity has Neptune and the Moon separately engaged in different ways.

    Since Ceres and Jupiter are in near opposition, Ceres reaches the False Nadir at 5:15 pm CET - by then the East Point Grand Trine has degraded into non-existence.

    Jupiter follows Neptune at the Eleventh House cusp near-vertical Apex point at 5:20 pm CET, which may be the striking of the High-Born from II.92.

    Venus descends beneath the Ecliptic at 5:34 pm CET.

    So there seems to be close focus on a brief interval, alternating between which celestial bodies are crossing the actual Midheaven point versus the Eleventh House cusp false Prime Vertical, as Evening Star Venus sets for Geneva after Sunset.

    The sequence appears to conclude when Vesta follows Saturn at the true Midheaven point 9 December 2022 5:53 pm CET: this moment is also Moonrise; it finds Mercury at the Descendant; and the Sun is conjoined by the Part of Fortune. Also the Vertex briefly
    nearly achieves reinstating a Grand Trine between Neptune and the Lilith-Pallas pairing.

    The 'Tipping Urn' making its ominous phantom appearance once Saturn crossing Midheaven sets up Venus for an unpleasant fall below the horizon -

    So the critical time would be 9 December 2022 4:55 pm CET / 10:55 am EST / 7:55 am PST.

    The Moon will not make a further conjunction beyond Mars until 11 December 2022.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Thu Dec 8 19:41:45 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    Saturn reaches the Descendant 6 December 2022 10:01 pm CET [/ 4:01 pm EST / 1:01 pm PST], with Vesta conjoined by Fortune: this is now expected to trigger the fire-and-flood double cataclysm, hinted by IX.44.

    The Saturnin period gives way to the Great Mercury Reign (X.79) at 11:10 pm CET, as Mercury reaches Capricorn.

    Vesta then follows at the Descendant 11:20 pm CET, for the 'sepulchral fire' prediction of X.6.

    The Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3 appears to suggest when the sustained trembling will finally cease, at the Neptune lunar square aspect of 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET. Since this happens after Sunset (4:45 pm CET for Geneva),
    this should be the commencement of the third 'normal' night from VII.5.

    If the onset arrived with Saturn at the Geneva Descendant 6 December 2022 10:01 PM CET, the Neptune lunar square should present a time about 44 hours later, so the catastrophic sequence easily allows sufficient time for the three
    nights to Warn' prophecy of V.83 to manifest.

    *

    Back to The Beatles, although Paul McCartney started writing "When I'm Sixty-Four" much earlier than the Sgt Pepper sessions, his father was turning the title age (born 7 July - same as Richard Starkey - in 1902) circa 1967. While
    the numeric age is close to presumed retirement for the lyrical theme, the number 64 is also the total number of hexagrams in the I Ching Chinese divination method.

    The sequence in the tune where the resonant bell alternates with George Martin playing clarinet suggests,

    'The Changes Outlined In A Book -'

    <Bell>

    'Written -'

    <Bell>

    '...Back In China..'
    This timing being correct would explain why no female saint was convincingly derived for the final line of I.94 -

    Dame par force de frayeur honoree

    Lady by force of terror honored

    The report of the recent death of celebrity actress Kirstie Alley could be what was intended, in another real-world prediction unexpectedly fulfilled.
    One site gives Kirstie Alley's birth time as 2 pm local CST, on 12 January 1951, in Wichita, Kansas.

    https://aaps.space/kundli/kirstie-alley/

    I found a near-trine at 2 pm CST between Jupiter at 7 degrees Pisces, and Ouranos at 6 degrees 50 minutes Cancer.

    Then the Vertex slips through Scorpio to make a Grand Trine around 2:36 pm CST.

    It is odd to notice the word 'Vitrix' in V.18, regarding the solution for Saint Felix of Valois --

    Celebrera son Vitrix l'hecatombe

    There is a slight difference between Vitrix and Vertex: Vitrix is translated as Conqueress, but the meaning is that Trinitarian Felix would die forlorn from grief about the Grand Trine employed in a mass slaughter prophecy. But it
    should be considered that having the Vertex complete a Grand Trine in the natal chart could make Kirstie Alley the Lady of the Vertex whose life would be celebrated during the Hecatomb-Sacrifice.

    His Vertex Lady will be celebrated during the Sacrifice

    The Victor of VI.70 would be Saint Victor of Piacenza with the 7 December feast.

    In IV.95 line 4 the use of Victor is ambiguously followed by 'puine' which could indicate Mercury as solar cadet.

    Victor puine en Armonique terre

    Victor, cadet into Brittany territory

    The same saint Victor of 7 December in 2022 is within the Great Mercury Reign, as would be 9 December as Brittany soil, via feast for Saint Boduc.

    The Great Mercury Reign ends when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 around 5 am CET.
    A further moment before the Saturnin-defined interval ends in less than an hour (10:40 pm CET / 4:40 pm EST) has Venus at the Fifth House cusp, and the Moon as vertical Apex of the vestiges of its Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres,
    appearing Upright, so that the grouping with Venus is below what would have been the Balance line oriented another way.

    The Mercury Reign cannot be the time of onset, when the Saturnin period precedes as when the worst happens.
    If eulogizing and bereavement for Kirstie Alley is part of the prophecy, the fire-&-flood catastrophe seems very close indeed.

    The final line of VI.70 implies the event will not be satisfied with anything except the sole title 'Victor,' now implying the 7 December feast for Saint Victor of Piacenza.

    So not far into the Great Mercury Reign for X.79, yet clearly beyond the immediately prior Saturnin interval.

    Par Saturnins endurera le pire

    By Saturnins the worst will be endured

    [V.24]

    Les Saturnins brules par les meuniers

    The Saturnins burned by the millers

    [VI.17]

    So the early portion of the Great Mercury Reign, ensuing from the Saturnin period, appears to be the cataclysmic onset time - on 7 December 2022 specifically.

    A little bit after Sunset in Geneva is when the critical sequence commences on that evening.

    Sunset at 4:45 pm CET brings the Fortune jump from slightly below the Ecliptic to slightly above, not a big change due to the solar-lunar near opposition.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point at 5:02 pm CET, with Fortune then nearing Venus.

    The critical triggering condition may be when Venus is conjoined by Fortune 7 December 2022 5:08 pm CET: not only is it strange timing, just before Venus falls beneath the horizon, but also the East Point comes into a position where it
    reconstitutes the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, eliminating need for the progressed Moon.

    As this East Point transitory Grand Trine forms at 5:09 pm CET, the Vertex is with the South Node - that sudden Grand Trine could be the 'Good Omen' that besieges a city in II.66.

    The East Point connection is broken before Venus reaches the Descendant, happening at 5:30 pm CET.

    So this particular prophecy was given in stages rather than focusing on a single moment, full of enigmatic remarks that seem sometimes conflicting or imprecise.

    The Venus-Fortune conjunction is at 7 December 2022 11:08 am EST / 8:08 am PST.
    There seems to be a connection with the anniversary of the 8 December 1980 event that ended hopes for a reunion of The Beatles, foretold in I.57 as stated prior.

    In VI.70 the seer guides through the 2-3 December 2022 lunar and solar aspects with Chiron, identifies the further lunar conjunct as Ouranos (Heavens) around 5 December, then alludes to the 7 December feast for Saint Victor Piacenza as a
    necessary date to reach.

    In II.66 the opening line foretold the 28 October 2022 Pelosi home invasion hammer attack; then the 4 December 2022 situation at Geneva Dawn was described, when Fortune made a jump from the position of Pallas. The final line suggests finding
    an ironic 'Good Omen' by which the city would be besieged.

    In V.18 Saint Felix of Valois as Trinitarian with 20 November feast was invoked, hinting at a woman with a Grand Trine involving the Vertex (Vitrix) in her natal chart: this suggests the recent passing of Kirstie Alley, with a Jupiter-Ouranos-
    Vertex Grand Trine for Wichita 12 January 1951 2:36 pm CST, is the Lady honored or celebrated through the time of massive fatalities from the force of terror incident (I.94).

    In V.66 the 25 October 2022 solar eclipse seems the subject of the 'gold engraving' in the final line, because it coincided with the feast of Trajan martyr Saint Minias of Florence. The 'Sun and Moon' in line 3 are associated with glittering
    metals, however this is not necessarily a conjunction; another Trajan martyr (from the same year 250) feast was found 5 December for Saint Bassus of Nice.

    In V.42 the Revelation Cup of Wrath theme is revealed through the angels administering the dark task of delivering Divine Fury, with a focus on the Black Forest region (suggesting Geneva) for the building of a fire; the references to a Tavern
    and Lombardy match the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting into 20 November 2022, via feast for Saint Benignus. Feast for Saint Mirocles of Milan made 3 December another Lombardy date.

    The 4 December date corresponded with numerous potential matches: Saint Bernard degli Uberti for Parma in VII.5; Saint Clement of Alexandria as the Bible reader of V.83; Saint Apro for Lyons (VIII.34) and Gaul (X.58).

    The Saturnin period has been defined as a resumed Vestal Reign, leading into the supremacy of Great Mercury (X.79), which will last until Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    Of two notable anniversaries, the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and the 8 December 1980 assassination of John Lennon, the latter seems more likely to be critically indicated, from observing the celestial movements.

    Before Dawn for Geneva 8 December 2022 6:28 am CET there will be an augmented Sagittarius Sun - Gemini Mars opposition (both at 16 degrees 5 minutes): the Moon will have only surpassed Mars (the next lunar conjunct after Ouranos) by a
    fraction of a degree, so they appear together; and the Sun will be at the East Point. The chart looks especially ominous, because Fortune is at the Descendant, reconstituting a Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres (that originated as a Lunar Grand Trine).
    This is likely the condition hinted by 'Sol et Lune' from V.66.

    When Dawn arrives for Geneva at 8:11 am CET, since the Sun and Moon are in opposition the jump for Fortune is a slight distance, staying in Gemini with a leap from around 3 degrees to the Moon's position past 17.5 degrees.

    When Venus rises at 9:05 am CET, it is clearly not going to be replay of the 9-11 attacks, where Mercury was rising locally at event onset: nothing seems engaged then.

    A different story emerges.

    Those which had been perceived as Under The Balance 17 November 2022 12:47 am CET become background identification for V.42, meaning the Sun, Venus, and Mercury, will cross the Midheaven point in succession, as the Gemini Moon moves towards
    its trine with Aquarian Saturn past twenty degrees (IX.44, 72).

    The Sun at Midheaven 12:28 pm CET does not appear very ominous.

    When Venus arrives at Midheaven 8 December 2022 1:18 pm CET [/ 7:18 am EST / 4:18 am PST], the Vertex and Fortune are clustered with Ceres at the Descendant; and the Moon is eleven minutes of a degree from its trine with Saturn.

    The implication is the cataclysm occurs when Venus is at the Apex (non-skewed Prime Vertical), exalted over Geneva's celestial Vault, and the lunar trine with Saturn is the prominent fateful aspect. This timing precludes Mercury reaching
    Midheaven before the onset: and when Midheaven is midway between Venus and Mercury at 1:27 pm CET, the Vertex drops to the Descendant, as a possible secondary triggering condition nine minutes after Venus at Midheaven.

    Mercury reaching Midheaven in the seer's version is grouped along with Venus, although that incident at 1:38 pm CET would invalidate the 'Venus as Mystery Babylon' theme, if the fiery explosion happens subsequently.

    Saturn has its lunar trine at 1:40 pm CET, with both Saturn and the Moon positioned at 20 degrees 21 minutes in their respective signs, coinciding closely with Mercury at the Midheaven point.

    The next lunar aspect is a square with Neptune 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET, suggesting the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3, presumably while the sustained trembling is an ongoing reality. The US state of Georgia runoff election having its
    result determined recently completes the 'newly-elected' portion of VI.21, with 'great sustained trembling' to follow; the remainder of VI.21 concerned the country of Georgia in an uprising circa August 2008.

    The rulership of Great Mercury (X.79) terminates when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET, yet that timing is not clearly associated with anything specifically. Applying the VII.5 scheduling for the two inexplicable nights
    that descend suggests perhaps a full day of unusual vibrations and sensations, leading into an otherwise normal night when the sustained trembling finally subsides.
    The brief reappearance of the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres through Fortune being fortuitously positioned at the Descendant during the Mars solar opposition, augmented by the separate yet coordinated Moon and East point placements, as an
    isolated incident clearly manifests the menacing 'Good Omen' for the final line of II.66, to restate the obvious.

    The Sun-Mars opposition of 8 December 2022 is not itself the time of onset, but a short-term precursor that could be mistaken for an auspicious occurrence: a bad omen masquerading as a good one. The setup for the actual incident to debase Venus
    arrives swiftly from that final sign.

    The Mobile Sign of I.54 arrived earlier, with Venus at the Nadir under the Balance for Geneva during the partisan determination of the US House of Representatives; V.42 referred back to that 17 November 2022 situation, while looking forward to
    8 December with Venus at Midheaven.

    My theory of the Saturnin-Vestal period does not seem to be necessary or correct: the Saturn lunar trine at the time of onset is sufficient for the 'Saturnin' term, having a timely connection. However the Great Mercury Reign does seem properly
    assessed.

    The 8 December 2022 is the 42nd year since the 1980 assassination of John Lennon, which was the subject of I.57; it is also the feast of the Immaculate Conception, referring to the spiritual purity of Christ's Mother Mary.

    Par grand discord la terre tremblera
    Accord rompu dressant la tete au ciel
    Bouche sanglante dans le sang nagera
    Au sol la face ointe de lait and miel

    The world's South Pacific to tremble from the great discord - Harmony thus being broken, towards Heaven the head uplifting -
    The mouth engulfed, swimming in blood, unable to speak a word -
    The face on the ground anointed with Milk And Honey recording
    The Mars lunar conjunct of 8 December 2022 was an occultation, so astronomically close it was a sort of eclipse.

    The Saturnin interval following the Saturn lunar trine ends with the Neptune lunar square (6:13 pm CET).

    Dusk (4:45 pm CET) causes Fortune to leap from 21 degrees 39 minutes Sagittarius (slightly above the Ecliptic) to 11 degrees 8 minutes in the same sign, slightly below the Ecliptic.

    Then Venus has its debasing moment reaching the Descendant 8 December 2022 5:32 pm CET [/ 11:32 am EST / 8:32 am PST]: this arrives when Fortune is at 22 degrees 28 minutes Sagittarius, in direct opposition with the Moon at 22 degrees 18 minutes
    Gemini. The Sun and Mars remain roughly in opposition at a slightly different angle.

    So the Venus falling for Geneva 8 December 2022 5:32pm CET is the presumed triggering condition for the double cataclysm of fire and flood.

    Also at that moment the Vertex opposes Ouranos along the Sixth and Twelfth House cusps.

    It is not until the Neptune lunar square that the genuine Saturnin interval concludes.
    Since Brittney Griner was released in a swap for Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, who had served eleven years of a twenty-five year sentence, this situation could apply to the theme of 'one captive eating the other' from III.13 and IV.38.

    Viktor Bout could be the proud or conceited one who escapes captivity in II.92.

    The female athlete (Gymnique) captive held as hostage from IV.41 seems applicable, unclear about line 2 where guards are deceived by night.

    A captive lady is conducted through Turkey in IV.58, uncertain if that was the route.

    In VII.18 there is a captive lady who had woven peace.

    Perhaps relating to Bout, IX.92 has a freed captive speaking and acting falsely.

    The details within each of these quatrains should be examined further for potential current confluences.

    II.92

    Fire color of gold in the sky viewed from land
    Struck from the high-born, marvelous deed accomplished
    Great human murder, the nephew of the great one taken
    Deaths as spectacles, the conceited one escaped

    The high-born one could be Jupiter at Geneva's Vault Apex. The nephew phrase is cryptic.

    III.13

    By lightning in the arc, gold and silver melted
    Of the two captives one will consume the other
    For the city the greatest extension
    When submerged the fleet will swim

    Again this presents the glittering metals theme of V.66, like II.92 - and -

    IV.38

    Before the assault one will eat the other
    Melted metal will follow the trail of blood

    Finally, a very clear picture of Brittney Griner as 'Gymnique' -

    IV.41

    Gymnique sexe captive par otage
    Viendra de nuit custodes decevoir

    Female athlete held captive as hostage
    Custodians will come to be deceived by night

    So the Griner release appears to be yet another precursor for the double cataclysm.
    Venus to be conjoined by Fortune 8 December 2022 5:58 pm CET, fifteen minutes before the genuine Saturnin period becomes the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity situation.

    When reversing the name John Lennon, the result sounded like Men of Mars' - the Moon past the occultation conjunct with Mars seems ominous.

    Three Grand Trines were found in the assassination scenario for John in 1980: before, during and after, in a short span of time with a planetary bucket configuration, using conceptual points and asteroid outliers.

    An upright Grand Trine (during the murder) with the Midheaven point including the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn as one of its base points, with the Vertex on the other side.
    Since this massively fatal cataclysmic incident is apparently imminent, last-minute reassessments have to take into account the actual circumstances.

    The interval between the Neptune lunar square [8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET] and the Pallas lunar adjacency [9 December 2022 1:04 am CET] had Saturn reaching the Descendant 9:54 pm CET, however this did not involve Venus.

    Reconsidering II.66, IX.44, III.3 and relevant quatrains brings a new scenario.

    The Pallas lunar adjacency after the Neptune lunar square could be the 'Palace' by which people are trapped in II.66: so the perplexity of Corinth and Ephesus would be the prior condition that is disturbed.

    Going beyond the Pallas adjacency is the fateful moment when Venus is debased at the Nadir in the Geneva chart, 9 December 2022 1:19 am CET (only fifteen minutes later).

    The subsequent lunar aspect is an adjacency with Lilith (very near Pallas) at 1:59 am CET.

    Venus at the Nadir does not find Saturn significantly engaged for IX.44 - however, since Fortune moves swiftly, it arrives into adjacency with Saturn (both at 20 degrees 24 minutes) 9 December 2022 1:25 am CET [/ 8 December 2022 7:25 pm EST / 4:25 pm
    PST].

    The Saturn-Fortune adjacency is a minor aspect that might be difficult to detect even with advanced programs.

    And Venus will still be identifiably close to the Nadir, with only six minutes having elapsed from that point: Mercury does not reach the Nadir until 1:39 am CET, nearly fifteen minutes after the critical subtle participation of Saturn.

    Current events (such as the death of Kirstie Alley, and release of Brittney Griner) have established the double cataclysm of fire and flood (the Anaxagoric Revolution from the Preface) will occur soon, before the Great Mercury Reign has concluded with
    the entry of Venus into Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    The amazing judicial astrology strongly indicates the evening of Friday, 9 December 2022 for Geneva, consulting animated local charts.

    Soon after 4 pm CET a Lunar Grand Trine forms with Vesta and the Vertex: this peaks around 4:30 pm CET, with Fortune conjoining Venus; it dissipates around 5 pm CET, as the Vertex joins the South Node. Vesta is at the Apex, tipping towards the right.

    When Dusk arrives at 4:45 pm CET, the jump for Fortune is from the position of Mercury (3 degrees 12 minutes Capricorn) to 1 degree 23 minutes Sagittarius.

    The extraordinary moment is synchronized with the perfected Mercury lunar opposition at 9 December 2022 4:55 pm CET:

    Both the Cancer Moon and Mercury in Capricorn at 4 degrees 3 minutes in their respective signs;

    Simultaneously, Saturn reaches the Midheaven point in trine with the Ascendant;

    And a new Grand Trine materializes with the East Point augmenting the trine relationship of Pluto and Ceres, rejuvenating what had been observed initially as a Lunar Grand Trine previously.

    It is as if Saturn passing the skewed Midheaven point creates an effect like cyclist Miss Gulch becoming the Wicked Witch riding a broomstick in the cyclone scene from "The Wizard Of Oz" -

    Saturn itself will convert gold to sword

    The innocuous Vertex Grand Trine vanishing as the sinister East Point Grand Trine suddenly becomes prominent happens while Venus-Babylon is still descending alone towards the Ecliptic, being made to receive the contents of the Cup of Divine Fury on her
    way down.

    Then Neptune ascends to the highest Apex of the celestial Vault, on the Eleventh House cusp, around 5 pm CET.

    The East Point Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres is pivoting on the Ceres-Fulcrum, tipping towards a balanced-level orientation for the top trine line.

    This could be the Corinth perplexity, shortly following the Saturn at Midheaven moment; the Moon as Ephesus is itself occupied in Mercury opposition. Thus the perplexity has Neptune and the Moon separately engaged in different ways.

    Since Ceres and Jupiter are in near opposition, Ceres reaches the False Nadir at 5:15 pm CET - by then the East Point Grand Trine has degraded into non-existence.

    Jupiter follows Neptune at the Eleventh House cusp near-vertical Apex point at 5:20 pm CET, which may be the striking of the High-Born from II.92.

    Venus descends beneath the Ecliptic at 5:34 pm CET.

    So there seems to be close focus on a brief interval, alternating between which celestial bodies are crossing the actual Midheaven point versus the Eleventh House cusp false Prime Vertical, as Evening Star Venus sets for Geneva after Sunset.

    The sequence appears to conclude when Vesta follows Saturn at the true Midheaven point 9 December 2022 5:53 pm CET: this moment is also Moonrise; it finds Mercury at the Descendant; and the Sun is conjoined by the Part of Fortune. Also the Vertex briefly
    nearly achieves reinstating a Grand Trine between Neptune and the Lilith-Pallas pairing.

    The 'Tipping Urn' making its ominous phantom appearance once Saturn crossing Midheaven sets up Venus for an unpleasant fall below the horizon -

    So the critical time would be 9 December 2022 4:55 pm CET / 10:55 am EST / 7:55 am PST.

    The Moon will not make a conjunction beyond Mars until 11 December 2022.

    *

    Car selon les signes celestes,
    Le regne de Saturne sera de retour,
    Que le tout calcule,
    Le monde s'approche d'une anaragonique revolution

    ...Because according to the celestial signs,
    The reign of Saturn will return -
    So that all things being calculated,
    The world will then be approaching an Anaxagoric revolution

    The subtext to that Preface passage is that the 6 January 2021 Capitol rampage was during perhaps the critical initial reign of Saturn, whose astrological reprise will be 7 to 16 March 2023. (The preceding Preface sentence described the prior pre-Saturn
    reign condition from 18 December 2017, with the Sun progressing slightly before Saturn at the end of a lunar course).

    The Greek philosopher Anaxagoras predicted the world ending through a fire and flood cataclysm.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curtis Eagal@21:1/5 to Curtis Eagal on Fri Dec 9 11:45:28 2022
    [continued from previous message]

    Now that Venus fell at the Geneva Ascendant with the Lunar Grand Trine (including Pluto and Ceres) fully inverted 6 December 2022 5:28 pm CET, her relevant influence seems diminished.

    Saturn and Vesta now appear to be the significant agents, but first the Moon progresses into Gemini at 9:49 pm CET - with Saturn poised near its fall at the Descendant, almost identically situated as at the outset of the 'Saturnin'
    -Vestal Reign, justifying the invented identification. The unique Saturnin interval terminates shortly, when Mercury enters Capricorn.

    Saturn reaches the Descendant 6 December 2022 10:01 pm CET [/ 4:01 pm EST / 1:01 pm PST], with Vesta conjoined by Fortune: this is now expected to trigger the fire-and-flood double cataclysm, hinted by IX.44.

    The Saturnin period gives way to the Great Mercury Reign (X.79) at 11:10 pm CET, as Mercury reaches Capricorn.

    Vesta then follows at the Descendant 11:20 pm CET, for the 'sepulchral fire' prediction of X.6.

    The Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3 appears to suggest when the sustained trembling will finally cease, at the Neptune lunar square aspect of 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET. Since this happens after Sunset (4:45 pm CET for Geneva)
    , this should be the commencement of the third 'normal' night from VII.5.

    If the onset arrived with Saturn at the Geneva Descendant 6 December 2022 10:01 PM CET, the Neptune lunar square should present a time about 44 hours later, so the catastrophic sequence easily allows sufficient time for the three
    nights to Warn' prophecy of V.83 to manifest.

    *

    Back to The Beatles, although Paul McCartney started writing "When I'm Sixty-Four" much earlier than the Sgt Pepper sessions, his father was turning the title age (born 7 July - same as Richard Starkey - in 1902) circa 1967. While
    the numeric age is close to presumed retirement for the lyrical theme, the number 64 is also the total number of hexagrams in the I Ching Chinese divination method.

    The sequence in the tune where the resonant bell alternates with George Martin playing clarinet suggests,

    'The Changes Outlined In A Book -'

    <Bell>

    'Written -'

    <Bell>

    '...Back In China..'
    This timing being correct would explain why no female saint was convincingly derived for the final line of I.94 -

    Dame par force de frayeur honoree

    Lady by force of terror honored

    The report of the recent death of celebrity actress Kirstie Alley could be what was intended, in another real-world prediction unexpectedly fulfilled.
    One site gives Kirstie Alley's birth time as 2 pm local CST, on 12 January 1951, in Wichita, Kansas.

    https://aaps.space/kundli/kirstie-alley/

    I found a near-trine at 2 pm CST between Jupiter at 7 degrees Pisces, and Ouranos at 6 degrees 50 minutes Cancer.

    Then the Vertex slips through Scorpio to make a Grand Trine around 2:36 pm CST.

    It is odd to notice the word 'Vitrix' in V.18, regarding the solution for Saint Felix of Valois --

    Celebrera son Vitrix l'hecatombe

    There is a slight difference between Vitrix and Vertex: Vitrix is translated as Conqueress, but the meaning is that Trinitarian Felix would die forlorn from grief about the Grand Trine employed in a mass slaughter prophecy. But it
    should be considered that having the Vertex complete a Grand Trine in the natal chart could make Kirstie Alley the Lady of the Vertex whose life would be celebrated during the Hecatomb-Sacrifice.

    His Vertex Lady will be celebrated during the Sacrifice

    The Victor of VI.70 would be Saint Victor of Piacenza with the 7 December feast.

    In IV.95 line 4 the use of Victor is ambiguously followed by 'puine' which could indicate Mercury as solar cadet.

    Victor puine en Armonique terre

    Victor, cadet into Brittany territory

    The same saint Victor of 7 December in 2022 is within the Great Mercury Reign, as would be 9 December as Brittany soil, via feast for Saint Boduc.

    The Great Mercury Reign ends when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 around 5 am CET.
    A further moment before the Saturnin-defined interval ends in less than an hour (10:40 pm CET / 4:40 pm EST) has Venus at the Fifth House cusp, and the Moon as vertical Apex of the vestiges of its Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres,
    appearing Upright, so that the grouping with Venus is below what would have been the Balance line oriented another way.

    The Mercury Reign cannot be the time of onset, when the Saturnin period precedes as when the worst happens.
    If eulogizing and bereavement for Kirstie Alley is part of the prophecy, the fire-&-flood catastrophe seems very close indeed.

    The final line of VI.70 implies the event will not be satisfied with anything except the sole title 'Victor,' now implying the 7 December feast for Saint Victor of Piacenza.

    So not far into the Great Mercury Reign for X.79, yet clearly beyond the immediately prior Saturnin interval.

    Par Saturnins endurera le pire

    By Saturnins the worst will be endured

    [V.24]

    Les Saturnins brules par les meuniers

    The Saturnins burned by the millers

    [VI.17]

    So the early portion of the Great Mercury Reign, ensuing from the Saturnin period, appears to be the cataclysmic onset time - on 7 December 2022 specifically.

    A little bit after Sunset in Geneva is when the critical sequence commences on that evening.

    Sunset at 4:45 pm CET brings the Fortune jump from slightly below the Ecliptic to slightly above, not a big change due to the solar-lunar near opposition.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point at 5:02 pm CET, with Fortune then nearing Venus.

    The critical triggering condition may be when Venus is conjoined by Fortune 7 December 2022 5:08 pm CET: not only is it strange timing, just before Venus falls beneath the horizon, but also the East Point comes into a position where it
    reconstitutes the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres, eliminating need for the progressed Moon.

    As this East Point transitory Grand Trine forms at 5:09 pm CET, the Vertex is with the South Node - that sudden Grand Trine could be the 'Good Omen' that besieges a city in II.66.

    The East Point connection is broken before Venus reaches the Descendant, happening at 5:30 pm CET.

    So this particular prophecy was given in stages rather than focusing on a single moment, full of enigmatic remarks that seem sometimes conflicting or imprecise.

    The Venus-Fortune conjunction is at 7 December 2022 11:08 am EST / 8:08 am PST.
    There seems to be a connection with the anniversary of the 8 December 1980 event that ended hopes for a reunion of The Beatles, foretold in I.57 as stated prior.

    In VI.70 the seer guides through the 2-3 December 2022 lunar and solar aspects with Chiron, identifies the further lunar conjunct as Ouranos (Heavens) around 5 December, then alludes to the 7 December feast for Saint Victor Piacenza as a
    necessary date to reach.

    In II.66 the opening line foretold the 28 October 2022 Pelosi home invasion hammer attack; then the 4 December 2022 situation at Geneva Dawn was described, when Fortune made a jump from the position of Pallas. The final line suggests
    finding an ironic 'Good Omen' by which the city would be besieged.

    In V.18 Saint Felix of Valois as Trinitarian with 20 November feast was invoked, hinting at a woman with a Grand Trine involving the Vertex (Vitrix) in her natal chart: this suggests the recent passing of Kirstie Alley, with a Jupiter-
    Ouranos-Vertex Grand Trine for Wichita 12 January 1951 2:36 pm CST, is the Lady honored or celebrated through the time of massive fatalities from the force of terror incident (I.94).

    In V.66 the 25 October 2022 solar eclipse seems the subject of the 'gold engraving' in the final line, because it coincided with the feast of Trajan martyr Saint Minias of Florence. The 'Sun and Moon' in line 3 are associated with
    glittering metals, however this is not necessarily a conjunction; another Trajan martyr (from the same year 250) feast was found 5 December for Saint Bassus of Nice.

    In V.42 the Revelation Cup of Wrath theme is revealed through the angels administering the dark task of delivering Divine Fury, with a focus on the Black Forest region (suggesting Geneva) for the building of a fire; the references to a
    Tavern and Lombardy match the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting into 20 November 2022, via feast for Saint Benignus. Feast for Saint Mirocles of Milan made 3 December another Lombardy date.

    The 4 December date corresponded with numerous potential matches: Saint Bernard degli Uberti for Parma in VII.5; Saint Clement of Alexandria as the Bible reader of V.83; Saint Apro for Lyons (VIII.34) and Gaul (X.58).

    The Saturnin period has been defined as a resumed Vestal Reign, leading into the supremacy of Great Mercury (X.79), which will last until Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    Of two notable anniversaries, the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor, and the 8 December 1980 assassination of John Lennon, the latter seems more likely to be critically indicated, from observing the celestial movements.

    Before Dawn for Geneva 8 December 2022 6:28 am CET there will be an augmented Sagittarius Sun - Gemini Mars opposition (both at 16 degrees 5 minutes): the Moon will have only surpassed Mars (the next lunar conjunct after Ouranos) by a
    fraction of a degree, so they appear together; and the Sun will be at the East Point. The chart looks especially ominous, because Fortune is at the Descendant, reconstituting a Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres (that originated as a Lunar Grand Trine).
    This is likely the condition hinted by 'Sol et Lune' from V.66.

    When Dawn arrives for Geneva at 8:11 am CET, since the Sun and Moon are in opposition the jump for Fortune is a slight distance, staying in Gemini with a leap from around 3 degrees to the Moon's position past 17.5 degrees.

    When Venus rises at 9:05 am CET, it is clearly not going to be replay of the 9-11 attacks, where Mercury was rising locally at event onset: nothing seems engaged then.

    A different story emerges.

    Those which had been perceived as Under The Balance 17 November 2022 12:47 am CET become background identification for V.42, meaning the Sun, Venus, and Mercury, will cross the Midheaven point in succession, as the Gemini Moon moves towards
    its trine with Aquarian Saturn past twenty degrees (IX.44, 72).

    The Sun at Midheaven 12:28 pm CET does not appear very ominous.

    When Venus arrives at Midheaven 8 December 2022 1:18 pm CET [/ 7:18 am EST / 4:18 am PST], the Vertex and Fortune are clustered with Ceres at the Descendant; and the Moon is eleven minutes of a degree from its trine with Saturn.

    The implication is the cataclysm occurs when Venus is at the Apex (non-skewed Prime Vertical), exalted over Geneva's celestial Vault, and the lunar trine with Saturn is the prominent fateful aspect. This timing precludes Mercury reaching
    Midheaven before the onset: and when Midheaven is midway between Venus and Mercury at 1:27 pm CET, the Vertex drops to the Descendant, as a possible secondary triggering condition nine minutes after Venus at Midheaven.

    Mercury reaching Midheaven in the seer's version is grouped along with Venus, although that incident at 1:38 pm CET would invalidate the 'Venus as Mystery Babylon' theme, if the fiery explosion happens subsequently.

    Saturn has its lunar trine at 1:40 pm CET, with both Saturn and the Moon positioned at 20 degrees 21 minutes in their respective signs, coinciding closely with Mercury at the Midheaven point.

    The next lunar aspect is a square with Neptune 8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET, suggesting the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3, presumably while the sustained trembling is an ongoing reality. The US state of Georgia runoff election having
    its result determined recently completes the 'newly-elected' portion of VI.21, with 'great sustained trembling' to follow; the remainder of VI.21 concerned the country of Georgia in an uprising circa August 2008.

    The rulership of Great Mercury (X.79) terminates when Venus enters Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET, yet that timing is not clearly associated with anything specifically. Applying the VII.5 scheduling for the two inexplicable nights
    that descend suggests perhaps a full day of unusual vibrations and sensations, leading into an otherwise normal night when the sustained trembling finally subsides.
    The brief reappearance of the Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres through Fortune being fortuitously positioned at the Descendant during the Mars solar opposition, augmented by the separate yet coordinated Moon and East point placements, as an
    isolated incident clearly manifests the menacing 'Good Omen' for the final line of II.66, to restate the obvious.

    The Sun-Mars opposition of 8 December 2022 is not itself the time of onset, but a short-term precursor that could be mistaken for an auspicious occurrence: a bad omen masquerading as a good one. The setup for the actual incident to debase
    Venus arrives swiftly from that final sign.

    The Mobile Sign of I.54 arrived earlier, with Venus at the Nadir under the Balance for Geneva during the partisan determination of the US House of Representatives; V.42 referred back to that 17 November 2022 situation, while looking forward
    to 8 December with Venus at Midheaven.

    My theory of the Saturnin-Vestal period does not seem to be necessary or correct: the Saturn lunar trine at the time of onset is sufficient for the 'Saturnin' term, having a timely connection. However the Great Mercury Reign does seem
    properly assessed.

    The 8 December 2022 is the 42nd year since the 1980 assassination of John Lennon, which was the subject of I.57; it is also the feast of the Immaculate Conception, referring to the spiritual purity of Christ's Mother Mary.

    Par grand discord la terre tremblera
    Accord rompu dressant la tete au ciel
    Bouche sanglante dans le sang nagera
    Au sol la face ointe de lait and miel

    The world's South Pacific to tremble from the great discord - Harmony thus being broken, towards Heaven the head uplifting -
    The mouth engulfed, swimming in blood, unable to speak a word - The face on the ground anointed with Milk And Honey recording
    The Mars lunar conjunct of 8 December 2022 was an occultation, so astronomically close it was a sort of eclipse.

    The Saturnin interval following the Saturn lunar trine ends with the Neptune lunar square (6:13 pm CET).

    Dusk (4:45 pm CET) causes Fortune to leap from 21 degrees 39 minutes Sagittarius (slightly above the Ecliptic) to 11 degrees 8 minutes in the same sign, slightly below the Ecliptic.

    Then Venus has its debasing moment reaching the Descendant 8 December 2022 5:32 pm CET [/ 11:32 am EST / 8:32 am PST]: this arrives when Fortune is at 22 degrees 28 minutes Sagittarius, in direct opposition with the Moon at 22 degrees 18
    minutes Gemini. The Sun and Mars remain roughly in opposition at a slightly different angle.

    So the Venus falling for Geneva 8 December 2022 5:32pm CET is the presumed triggering condition for the double cataclysm of fire and flood.

    Also at that moment the Vertex opposes Ouranos along the Sixth and Twelfth House cusps.

    It is not until the Neptune lunar square that the genuine Saturnin interval concludes.
    Since Brittney Griner was released in a swap for Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, who had served eleven years of a twenty-five year sentence, this situation could apply to the theme of 'one captive eating the other' from III.13 and IV.38.

    Viktor Bout could be the proud or conceited one who escapes captivity in II.92.

    The female athlete (Gymnique) captive held as hostage from IV.41 seems applicable, unclear about line 2 where guards are deceived by night.

    A captive lady is conducted through Turkey in IV.58, uncertain if that was the route.

    In VII.18 there is a captive lady who had woven peace.

    Perhaps relating to Bout, IX.92 has a freed captive speaking and acting falsely.

    The details within each of these quatrains should be examined further for potential current confluences.

    II.92

    Fire color of gold in the sky viewed from land
    Struck from the high-born, marvelous deed accomplished
    Great human murder, the nephew of the great one taken
    Deaths as spectacles, the conceited one escaped

    The high-born one could be Jupiter at Geneva's Vault Apex. The nephew phrase is cryptic.

    III.13

    By lightning in the arc, gold and silver melted
    Of the two captives one will consume the other
    For the city the greatest extension
    When submerged the fleet will swim

    Again this presents the glittering metals theme of V.66, like II.92 - and -

    IV.38

    Before the assault one will eat the other
    Melted metal will follow the trail of blood

    Finally, a very clear picture of Brittney Griner as 'Gymnique' -

    IV.41

    Gymnique sexe captive par otage
    Viendra de nuit custodes decevoir

    Female athlete held captive as hostage
    Custodians will come to be deceived by night

    So the Griner release appears to be yet another precursor for the double cataclysm.
    Venus to be conjoined by Fortune 8 December 2022 5:58 pm CET, fifteen minutes before the genuine Saturnin period becomes the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity situation.

    When reversing the name John Lennon, the result sounded like Men of Mars' - the Moon past the occultation conjunct with Mars seems ominous.

    Three Grand Trines were found in the assassination scenario for John in 1980: before, during and after, in a short span of time with a planetary bucket configuration, using conceptual points and asteroid outliers.

    An upright Grand Trine (during the murder) with the Midheaven point including the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn as one of its base points, with the Vertex on the other side.
    Since this massively fatal cataclysmic incident is apparently imminent, last-minute reassessments have to take into account the actual circumstances.

    The interval between the Neptune lunar square [8 December 2022 6:13 pm CET] and the Pallas lunar adjacency [9 December 2022 1:04 am CET] had Saturn reaching the Descendant 9:54 pm CET, however this did not involve Venus.

    Reconsidering II.66, IX.44, III.3 and relevant quatrains brings a new scenario.

    The Pallas lunar adjacency after the Neptune lunar square could be the 'Palace' by which people are trapped in II.66: so the perplexity of Corinth and Ephesus would be the prior condition that is disturbed.

    Going beyond the Pallas adjacency is the fateful moment when Venus is debased at the Nadir in the Geneva chart, 9 December 2022 1:19 am CET (only fifteen minutes later).

    The subsequent lunar aspect is an adjacency with Lilith (very near Pallas) at 1:59 am CET.

    Venus at the Nadir does not find Saturn significantly engaged for IX.44 - however, since Fortune moves swiftly, it arrives into adjacency with Saturn (both at 20 degrees 24 minutes) 9 December 2022 1:25 am CET [/ 8 December 2022 7:25 pm EST / 4:25 pm
    PST].

    The Saturn-Fortune adjacency is a minor aspect that might be difficult to detect even with advanced programs.

    And Venus will still be identifiably close to the Nadir, with only six minutes having elapsed from that point: Mercury does not reach the Nadir until 1:39 am CET, nearly fifteen minutes after the critical subtle participation of Saturn.
    Current events (such as the death of Kirstie Alley, and release of Brittney Griner) have established the double cataclysm of fire and flood (the Anaxagoric Revolution from the Preface) will occur soon, before the Great Mercury Reign has concluded with
    the entry of Venus into Capricorn 10 December 2022 4:55 am CET.

    The amazing judicial astrology strongly indicates the evening of Friday, 9 December 2022 for Geneva, consulting animated local charts.

    Soon after 4 pm CET a Lunar Grand Trine forms with Vesta and the Vertex: this peaks around 4:30 pm CET, with Fortune conjoining Venus; it dissipates around 5 pm CET, as the Vertex joins the South Node. Vesta is at the Apex, tipping towards the right.

    When Dusk arrives at 4:45 pm CET, the jump for Fortune is from the position of Mercury (3 degrees 12 minutes Capricorn) to 1 degree 23 minutes Sagittarius.

    The extraordinary moment is synchronized with the perfected Mercury lunar opposition at 9 December 2022 4:55 pm CET:

    Both the Cancer Moon and Mercury in Capricorn at 4 degrees 3 minutes in their respective signs;

    Simultaneously, Saturn reaches the Midheaven point in trine with the Ascendant;

    And a new Grand Trine materializes with the East Point augmenting the trine relationship of Pluto and Ceres, rejuvenating what had been observed initially as a Lunar Grand Trine previously.

    It is as if Saturn passing the skewed Midheaven point creates an effect like cyclist Miss Gulch becoming the Wicked Witch riding a broomstick in the cyclone scene from "The Wizard Of Oz" -

    Saturn itself will convert gold to sword

    The innocuous Vertex Grand Trine vanishing as the sinister East Point Grand Trine suddenly becomes prominent happens while Venus-Babylon is still descending alone towards the Ecliptic, being made to receive the contents of the Cup of Divine Fury on her
    way down.

    Then Neptune ascends to the highest Apex of the celestial Vault, on the Eleventh House cusp, around 5 pm CET.

    The East Point Grand Trine with Pluto and Ceres is pivoting on the Ceres-Fulcrum, tipping towards a balanced-level orientation for the top trine line.

    This could be the Corinth perplexity, shortly following the Saturn at Midheaven moment; the Moon as Ephesus is itself occupied in Mercury opposition. Thus the perplexity has Neptune and the Moon separately engaged in different ways.

    Since Ceres and Jupiter are in near opposition, Ceres reaches the False Nadir at 5:15 pm CET - by then the East Point Grand Trine has degraded into non-existence.

    Jupiter follows Neptune at the Eleventh House cusp near-vertical Apex point at 5:20 pm CET, which may be the striking of the High-Born from II.92.

    Venus descends beneath the Ecliptic at 5:34 pm CET.

    So there seems to be close focus on a brief interval, alternating between which celestial bodies are crossing the actual Midheaven point versus the Eleventh House cusp false Prime Vertical, as Evening Star Venus sets for Geneva after Sunset.

    The sequence appears to conclude when Vesta follows Saturn at the true Midheaven point 9 December 2022 5:53 pm CET: this moment is also Moonrise; it finds Mercury at the Descendant; and the Sun is conjoined by the Part of Fortune. Also the Vertex
    briefly nearly achieves reinstating a Grand Trine between Neptune and the Lilith-Pallas pairing.

    The 'Tipping Urn' making its ominous phantom appearance once Saturn crossing Midheaven sets up Venus for an unpleasant fall below the horizon -

    So the critical time would be 9 December 2022 4:55 pm CET / 10:55 am EST / 7:55 am PST.

    The Moon will not make a conjunction beyond Mars until 11 December 2022.

    *

    Car selon les signes celestes,
    Le regne de Saturne sera de retour,
    Que le tout calcule,
    Le monde s'approche d'une anaragonique revolution

    ...Because according to the celestial signs,
    The reign of Saturn will return -
    So that all things being calculated,
    The world will then be approaching an Anaxagoric revolution

    The subtext to that Preface passage is that the 6 January 2021 Capitol rampage was during perhaps the critical initial reign of Saturn, whose astrological reprise will be 7 to 16 March 2023. (The preceding Preface sentence described the prior pre-
    Saturn reign condition from 18 December 2017, with the Sun progressing slightly before Saturn at the end of a lunar course).

    The Greek philosopher Anaxagoras predicted the world ending through a fire and flood cataclysm.

    The extra-mile towards the elusive cataclysmic timing endeavor goes into the uncanny realm of an impression, rather than a precise calculation. Some of the daily parameters recur with slight alterations that make a tremendous difference. And the Great
    Mercury Reign is itself taken as a precursor, heralding a new Venusian Reign for her debasement.

    The first clue this may be the right track is the Geneva charts for 11 December 2022 8:14 am CET: Fortune jumps from the proximity of Ouranos to the Moon, which is nearing conjunct with Pallas, as suggested by II.66. This is the key to the complex
    solution for the timing devices: once the Moon aligns with Pallas and Lilith, it reinforces the Grand Trine potential span, opening it temporarily to a wider interaction.

    The Moon conjoins Pallas 12:39 pm CET (ending the post-Mars interval); the lunar conjunct for Lilith takes place 2:47 pm CET.

    Dusk at 4:45 pm CET causes Fortune to leap from Pluto in Capricorn to the South Node with the Vertex in Scorpio.

    Saturn reaches the skewed Midheaven point 4:47 pm CET, and again immediately there appears in the wake of that crossing the downward-pointing Grand Trine with the East Point joining Pluto and Ceres (with the latter as Fulcrum); this prodigy again
    dissipates quickly, around 5:03 pm CET.

    Neptune reaches the Eleventh House cusp Apex point 4:52 pm CET; Jupiter follows at 5:13 pm CET.

    Venus reaches the Descendant 5:37 pm CET, but shortly before that happens, the beginnings of an awesome larger design emerge, as the Vertex-Fortune pairing moves together into the position for an augmented Grand Trine.

    Neptune cannot aspect directly with the Moon, yet is close to Jupiter which can: the association makes for an expanded image.

    The Pallas-Lilith-Moon alignment allows for a Reinforced Grand Trine with Jupiter-Neptune as a Double-Peak, completed by the Vertex and Fortune acting in tandem. This strengthened impression of a Grand Trine thus fortuitously includes both the Moon and
    Neptune, despite it not being the time for them to make a genuine aspect - because they are both caught up in 'The Grand Trine Of Perplexity.'

    So this Augmented Grand Trine from the Pallas Fortune jump should be the Good Omen of II.66 line 4, and the Corinth-Ephesus perplexity of III.3. However IX.44 implicates Saturn as the instrument for activation, by crossing the Midheaven point, which
    ushers in the Debasement Grand Trine pointing downwards, briefly utilizing the East Point - that is

    11 December 2022 4:47 pm CET / 10:47 am EST / 7:47 am PST.

    The Perplexity Grand Trine forms a few minutes before Venus falls at the Descendant, around 5:30 pm CET, and disintegrates around 6:45 pm CET.

    Vesta reaches Midheaven 5:45 pm CET, then Mercury follows Venus at the Descendant around 6 pm CET.

    The Venusian Reign continues until she exceeds the locational value of Vesta 16 December 2022 around 8 pm CET. The debasement of Venus in X.28 was not described, yet logically should occur within her own reign. Neither did the seer write specifically
    about or describe a Grand Trine, yet the theme has clearly emerged as deliberately hidden.

    An amendment to my interpretation for line 1 is related: Betta as Pettau for Saint Victorinus (d. 304), Pannonian bishop, has a 2 November feast, day before the 2020 US election; and bishop Saint Domnus (d. 657) for Vienne brings to the actual 3 November
    date.

    Then 'Emorte' presents a temporal disjuncture, leaping to 11 December for 2022: implying Merida in Spain, this corresponds with Saints Julia and Eulalia, who were martyred there with shared 11 December feast. On the same day Saint Fidweten (d. 888), a
    Brittany (IV.95) monk is honored; also Saints Victorinus (VI.70), Fuscian and Gentian, martyrs of Gaul (X.58).

    Our Lady of Guadalupe is honored 12 December, which could be the Lady honored by force of terror in I.94. And the next day is for Saint Lucy, perhaps the IX.68 context will somehow coalesce for 13 December 2022.

    By finishing line 1 of X.61 with Scarbantia, there is the suggestion of the Roman elliptical wall built there, a strategic structure to defend the Empire from advancing hordes at the border formed by the Danube River - the seer was likely sarcastically
    alluding to the Republican former-incumbent with the unfulfilled promise of building a wall at the border for a similar purpose.

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