• Giuliani's La Rosa

    From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 23 14:14:39 2021
    I've been working on playing Giuliani's La Rosa. I have the sheet music
    for it, but does anyone know where I can download a tab version?

    --
    Ken

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 24 08:54:00 2021
    El Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:14:39 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    I've been working on playing Giuliani's La Rosa. I have the sheet music
    for it, but does anyone know where I can download a tab version?

    Googling gives nothing, but "La Rose" with an e gives this amongst others:

    https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/ruben-wan-rose-sophie-giuliani-verison- tab-s455562t0

    Or "Le Rose"

    https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=37429

    Doesn't the sheet music have fingerings etc? Who needs tab?


    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Sun Oct 24 11:39:19 2021
    On 10/24/2021 1:54 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Sat, 23 Oct 2021 14:14:39 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    I've been working on playing Giuliani's La Rosa. I have the sheet music
    for it, but does anyone know where I can download a tab version?

    Googling gives nothing, but "La Rose" with an e gives this amongst others:

    https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/ruben-wan-rose-sophie-giuliani-verison- tab-s455562t0


    Thanks, but that's an entirely different piece.



    Or "Le Rose"

    https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=37429


    I had seen that before. It seems to be a performance not the tab. And
    besides, it says

    You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to
    this post.


    Doesn't the sheet music have fingerings etc?


    Yes. I have Edson Lopes's version, and it's very good and very helpful.


    Who needs tab?


    Me, unfortunately. My ability to sight-read music is pretty much limited
    to low positions and high notes only on the first string. That means I
    can sight-read some of it, but not all. I'm getting better at it, but
    I'm still not good enough to sight-read this, unless I play extremely
    slowly.

    I've made my own tab of it, working with the Edson Lopes fingerings on
    the sheet music, but it's sloppy and a good printed copy would be much
    better for me.

    I'm also working on memorizing it, and if I ever get it all memorized,
    I'll no longer need any tab. But my ability to memorize music is very
    poor and at my age (I'll be 84 in a couple of weeks) it's not getting
    any better.

    It's a beautiful piece--one of my favorites. It's not easy to play, but
    with the help of my teacher I'm getting better at it.



    --
    Ken

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 25 07:01:40 2021
    El Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:39:19 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    It's a beautiful piece--one of my favorites. It's not easy to play, but
    with the help of my teacher I'm getting better at it.


    Heh. I wish I had a teacher. Here, it's flamenco or nothing.


    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 25 10:25:12 2021
    El Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:39:19 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    Me, unfortunately. My ability to sight-read music is pretty much limited
    to low positions and high notes only on the first string. That means I
    can sight-read some of it, but not all. I'm getting better at it, but
    I'm still not good enough to sight-read this, unless I play extremely
    slowly.

    I've made my own tab of it, working with the Edson Lopes fingerings on
    the sheet music, but it's sloppy and a good printed copy would be much
    better for me.


    Have you seen this?

    https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/tablature

    Looks like it could be what you need.

    "Create a new tablature staff
    If you wish to create tablature as part of a new score, use the New Score Wizard. If you want to add tablature to an existing score, use the
    Instruments dialog. Or, alternatively, you can convert an existing
    standard staff. See below for details."

    HTH.

    I don't actually use tab, but I'm thinking of having a play with this.

    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so
    you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Steven Bornfeld@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Mon Oct 25 11:41:37 2021
    On 10/23/2021 5:14 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    I've been working on playing Giuliani's La Rosa. I have the sheet music
    for it, but does anyone know where I can download a tab version?



    From the "Morceaux Caracteristiques? I found the instruction by
    Bridget Mermikides to be very helpful:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKfwq9e0ggs

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Mon Oct 25 16:49:04 2021
    On 10/25/2021 12:01 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:39:19 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    It's a beautiful piece--one of my favorites. It's not easy to play, but
    with the help of my teacher I'm getting better at it.


    Heh. I wish I had a teacher. Here, it's flamenco or nothing.


    I live in Tucson, AZ. The University of Arizona's guitar program is very
    good, and there are several doctoral students and graduates here (from
    all over the world) who are excellent players. Some of them are also
    excellent teachers.

    I'm on my third doctoral student teacher, and I've been very lucky with
    each of the three. They've all been wonderful.

    The first one was from the Philippines, and he moved back home shortly
    after he graduated.

    The second one was from Canada and was having visa problems. He moved
    back to Canada shortly before he was going to graduate

    The current one is from Chile and will probably graduate this coming
    spring. Whether he'll still be here after graduation, I don't know yet,
    but if I'll have to choose another teacher, there are many good ones to
    choose from.

    I'm 84. I've been playing the guitar for about 70 years, but mostly on
    steel string guitars, and mostly playing blues and ragtime pieces. I
    started studying classical guitar (I had lots of old habits that were
    hard to break) about five years ago with my Philippine teacher, and I've learned a lot from him as well as both of the others. I've gotten a lot
    better (La Rosa is one of the most difficult pieces I've worked on) but
    I'm a long way from being able to play concerts. I never will be at that
    level and that's OK with me; I play for my own enjoyment.

    Here's one of the best of the UofA's doctoral students (from Mexico)
    playing La Rosa (much better than I play it):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BExn3VN42Zk&list=RDBExn3VN42Zk&start_radio=1

    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Mon Oct 25 16:51:38 2021
    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:39:19 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    Me, unfortunately. My ability to sight-read music is pretty much limited
    to low positions and high notes only on the first string. That means I
    can sight-read some of it, but not all. I'm getting better at it, but
    I'm still not good enough to sight-read this, unless I play extremely
    slowly.

    I've made my own tab of it, working with the Edson Lopes fingerings on
    the sheet music, but it's sloppy and a good printed copy would be much
    better for me.


    Have you seen this?

    https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/tablature

    Looks like it could be what you need.

    "Create a new tablature staff
    If you wish to create tablature as part of a new score, use the New Score Wizard. If you want to add tablature to an existing score, use the Instruments dialog. Or, alternatively, you can convert an existing
    standard staff. See below for details."

    HTH.

    I don't actually use tab, but I'm thinking of having a play with this.

    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so
    you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with
    it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Steven Bornfeld on Mon Oct 25 16:27:21 2021
    On 10/25/2021 8:41 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
    On 10/23/2021 5:14 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    I've been working on playing Giuliani's La Rosa. I have the sheet music
    for it, but does anyone know where I can download a tab version?



    From the "Morceaux Caracteristiques? I found the instruction by
    Bridget Mermikides to be very helpful:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKfwq9e0ggs


    Thanks. I looked at this a while back, but I don't remember it well.
    I'll try it again tomorrow.


    --
    Ken

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 26 09:59:13 2021
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:49:04 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    Here's one of the best of the UofA's doctoral students (from Mexico)
    playing La Rosa (much better than I play it):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?
    v=BExn3VN42Zk&list=RDBExn3VN42Zk&start_radio=1

    So it is spelled with an e.


    That looks slightly more difficult than twinkle twinkle little star.

    I may have a way to go yet...

    PS: Going to a music shop in Málaga tomorrow. I want to see what a proper guitar feels and plays like. My Takamine 300€ jobby sounds awful and I
    don't think it's just my playing. Plucking the g string sounds like
    wacking a wall with a shoe.

    I've heard it said that the magic number for a student like me is 1000€. Anything below that will be a toy and anything above will be decoration.
    I keep seing guitars advertised for much more.

    I'll let you know how I get on.

    For now back to Familia Latina.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 26 10:04:25 2021
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so
    you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with
    it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).

    I'll have a go for a laugh. I presume there must be a way of adding
    string numbers and fingerings for sheet music so it knows how to produce
    the tab.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 26 13:48:02 2021
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so
    you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with
    it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).

    I'll have a go for a laugh. I presume there must be a way of adding
    string numbers and fingerings for sheet music so it knows how to produce
    the tab.

    Here's a simple tune with auto tab:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BKef8AIUi-J6s4aLNCkZC4K6mtYsqe-G/view? usp=sharing


    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 26 14:11:54 2021
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 09:59:13 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    For now back to Familia Latina.

    Of course I meant Familia Romana.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 26 14:36:38 2021
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 13:48:02 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player,
    so you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with
    it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).

    I'll have a go for a laugh. I presume there must be a way of adding
    string numbers and fingerings for sheet music so it knows how to
    produce the tab.

    Here's a simple tune with auto tab:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BKef8AIUi-J6s4aLNCkZC4K6mtYsqe-G/view? usp=sharing


    Oh, and yes, you can modify the fingerings on the tab. I just tried it
    with the open high e by changing the tab to use second string. It changed
    to 5 on b. Any changes to tab that actually change the note, get
    reflected in the music score.


    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Tue Oct 26 10:53:17 2021
    On 10/26/2021 2:59 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:49:04 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    Here's one of the best of the UofA's doctoral students (from Mexico)
    playing La Rosa (much better than I play it):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?
    v=BExn3VN42Zk&list=RDBExn3VN42Zk&start_radio=1

    So it is spelled with an e.


    It's often seen spelled both ways.



    That looks slightly more difficult than twinkle twinkle little star.


    LOL. Yes.


    I may have a way to go yet...

    PS: Going to a music shop in Málaga tomorrow. I want to see what a proper guitar feels and plays like. My Takamine 300€ jobby sounds awful and I don't think it's just my playing. Plucking the g string sounds like
    wacking a wall with a shoe.

    I've heard it said that the magic number for a student like me is 1000€. Anything below that will be a toy and anything above will be decoration.
    I keep seing guitars advertised for much more.


    I had been playing a Yamaha G255SII, which I think sells for around $800
    (USD). It was pretty good for a guitar in that price range, but a year
    ago I splurged and bought a Yulong Guo Chamber Concert Double-Top
    Classical Guitar for just under $4,000 (https://goyetteguitarcenter.com/product/yulong-guo-chamber-concert-double-top-classical-guitar).
    It's still a long way from professional concert quality, but it's much
    better and I like it a lot.



    I'll let you know how I get on.

    For now back to Familia Latina.



    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Tue Oct 26 10:58:28 2021
    On 10/26/2021 6:48 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with
    it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).

    I'll have a go for a laugh. I presume there must be a way of adding
    string numbers and fingerings for sheet music so it knows how to produce
    the tab.

    Here's a simple tune with auto tab:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BKef8AIUi-J6s4aLNCkZC4K6mtYsqe-G/view? usp=sharing


    Does it do the tabbing automatically, rather than letting you decide
    which string to play each note on? If so, that's probably what I didn't
    like about it.

    Look at measure five. The G and F# that come after the high B might be
    better played on the second string.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Tue Oct 26 10:54:10 2021
    On 10/26/2021 3:04 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so
    you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with
    it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).

    I'll have a go for a laugh. I presume there must be a way of adding
    string numbers and fingerings for sheet music so it knows how to produce
    the tab.


    OK, I'll try again, when I get the chance.


    --
    Ken

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Tue Oct 26 13:01:21 2021
    On 10/26/2021 10:54 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 3:04 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with
    it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been recently
    updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).

    I'll have a go for a laugh. I presume there must be a way of adding
    string numbers and fingerings for sheet music so it knows how to produce
    the tab.


    OK, I'll try again, when I get the chance.


    I just did. It took about fifteen minutes to do the first measure, and
    that was made more complicated by its accidental.

    I worked on the first chord in the second measure, couldn't get it right
    and so I then gave up.

    This is much too difficult.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Steven Bornfeld@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Tue Oct 26 16:34:00 2021
    On 10/26/2021 1:53 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 2:59 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:49:04 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    Here's one of the best of the UofA's doctoral students (from Mexico)
    playing La Rosa (much better than I play it):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?
    v=BExn3VN42Zk&list=RDBExn3VN42Zk&start_radio=1

    So it is spelled with an e.


    It's often seen spelled both ways.



    That looks slightly more difficult than twinkle twinkle little star.


    LOL. Yes.


    I may have a way to go yet...

    PS: Going to a music shop in Málaga tomorrow. I want to see what a proper >> guitar feels and plays like. My Takamine 300€ jobby sounds awful and I
    don't think it's just my playing. Plucking the g string sounds like
    wacking a wall with a shoe.

    I've heard it said that the magic number for a student like me is 1000€. >> Anything below that will be a toy and anything above will be decoration.
    I keep seing guitars advertised for much more.


    I had been playing a Yamaha G255SII, which I think sells for around $800 (USD). It was pretty good for a guitar in that price range, but a year
    ago I splurged and bought a Yulong Guo Chamber Concert Double-Top
    Classical Guitar for just under $4,000 (https://goyetteguitarcenter.com/product/yulong-guo-chamber-concert-double-top-classical-guitar).
    It's still a long way from professional concert quality, but it's much
    better and I like it a lot.

    IDK how well-regarded Chinese luthiers are; it seems it hasn't been long
    since they were making knockoffs of other designs for not much money.
    This looks of a different order entirely.
    In the discussion video, did he say it was a double-laminated back?
    They don't mention what the back and sides are made of--or I just missed
    that.



    I'll let you know how I get on.

    For now back to Familia Latina.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Tue Oct 26 13:18:06 2021
    On 10/25/2021 4:27 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/25/2021 8:41 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
    On 10/23/2021 5:14 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    I've been working on playing Giuliani's La Rosa. I have the sheet music
    for it, but does anyone know where I can download a tab version?



    From the "Morceaux Caracteristiques? I found the instruction by
    Bridget Mermikides to be very helpful:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKfwq9e0ggs


    Thanks. I looked at this a while back, but I don't remember it well.
    I'll try it again tomorrow.


    I looked at it this afternoon. It was good, but there was nothing I
    didn't know already.


    --
    Ken

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Tue Oct 26 13:16:53 2021
    On 10/26/2021 1:01 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 10:54 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 3:04 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with >>>> it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been recently >>> updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).

    I'll have a go for a laugh. I presume there must be a way of adding
    string numbers and fingerings for sheet music so it knows how to produce >>> the tab.


    OK, I'll try again, when I get the chance.


    I just did. It took about fifteen minutes to do the first measure, and
    that was made more complicated by its accidental.

    I worked on the first chord in the second measure, couldn't get it right
    and so I then gave up.

    This is much too difficult.


    On the Musescore web site I can get the score of La Rose with
    tablature, but I can't download or print it unless I start a free trial,
    which involves giving them a credit card number, which I don't want to
    do. Also there are several places where I don't like the fingering in
    the tab.

    I tried doing a print screen of the web page, but that didn't work.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Steven Bornfeld on Tue Oct 26 15:06:15 2021
    On 10/26/2021 1:34 PM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 1:53 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 2:59 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:49:04 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    Here's one of the best of the UofA's doctoral students (from Mexico)
    playing La Rosa (much better than I play it):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?
    v=BExn3VN42Zk&list=RDBExn3VN42Zk&start_radio=1

    So it is spelled with an e.


    It's often seen spelled both ways.



    That looks slightly more difficult than twinkle twinkle little star.


    LOL. Yes.


    I may have a way to go yet...

    PS: Going to a music shop in Málaga tomorrow. I want to see what a proper >>> guitar feels and plays like. My Takamine 300€ jobby sounds awful and I >>> don't think it's just my playing. Plucking the g string sounds like
    wacking a wall with a shoe.

    I've heard it said that the magic number for a student like me is 1000€. >>> Anything below that will be a toy and anything above will be decoration. >>> I keep seing guitars advertised for much more.


    I had been playing a Yamaha G255SII, which I think sells for around $800
    (USD). It was pretty good for a guitar in that price range, but a year
    ago I splurged and bought a Yulong Guo Chamber Concert Double-Top
    Classical Guitar for just under $4,000
    (https://goyetteguitarcenter.com/product/yulong-guo-chamber-concert-double-top-classical-guitar).
    It's still a long way from professional concert quality, but it's much
    better and I like it a lot.

    IDK how well-regarded Chinese luthiers are;


    IDK either, but I doubt very much that any of them are up there with the
    top European ones.

    But mine was a lot less expensive than any of the top ones. As I said,
    it's "a long way from professional concert quality," but I'm not and
    never will be a professional. I think it was a good moderately priced
    choice for me and I'm very happy with it.


    it seems it hasn't been long
    since they were making knockoffs of other designs for not much money.
    This looks of a different order entirely.
    In the discussion video, did he say it was a double-laminated back?
    They don't mention what the back and sides are made of--or I just missed that.

    Rosewood. And I chose a cedar double-top.




    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Tue Oct 26 15:11:29 2021
    On 10/26/2021 3:06 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 1:34 PM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 1:53 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 2:59 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:49:04 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    Here's one of the best of the UofA's doctoral students (from Mexico) >>>>> playing La Rosa (much better than I play it):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?
    v=BExn3VN42Zk&list=RDBExn3VN42Zk&start_radio=1

    So it is spelled with an e.


    It's often seen spelled both ways.



    That looks slightly more difficult than twinkle twinkle little star.


    LOL. Yes.


    I may have a way to go yet...

    PS: Going to a music shop in Málaga tomorrow. I want to see what a proper >>>> guitar feels and plays like. My Takamine 300€ jobby sounds awful and I >>>> don't think it's just my playing. Plucking the g string sounds like
    wacking a wall with a shoe.

    I've heard it said that the magic number for a student like me is 1000€. >>>> Anything below that will be a toy and anything above will be decoration. >>>> I keep seing guitars advertised for much more.


    I had been playing a Yamaha G255SII, which I think sells for around $800 >>> (USD). It was pretty good for a guitar in that price range, but a year
    ago I splurged and bought a Yulong Guo Chamber Concert Double-Top
    Classical Guitar for just under $4,000
    (https://goyetteguitarcenter.com/product/yulong-guo-chamber-concert-double-top-classical-guitar).
    It's still a long way from professional concert quality, but it's much
    better and I like it a lot.

    IDK how well-regarded Chinese luthiers are;


    IDK either, but I doubt very much that any of them are up there with the
    top European ones.

    But mine was a lot less expensive than any of the top ones. As I said,
    it's "a long way from professional concert quality," but I'm not and
    never will be a professional. I think it was a good moderately priced
    choice for me and I'm very happy with it.


    it seems it hasn't been long
    since they were making knockoffs of other designs for not much money.
    This looks of a different order entirely.
    In the discussion video, did he say it was a double-laminated back?
    They don't mention what the back and sides are made of--or I just missed
    that.

    Rosewood. And I chose a cedar double-top.


    Sorry, I should mentioned that it's Indian rosewood, not Brazilian.

    --
    Ken

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  • From Steven Bornfeld@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Tue Oct 26 21:54:09 2021
    On 10/26/2021 6:11 PM, Ken Blake wrote:


    Sorry, I should mentioned that it's Indian rosewood, not Brazilian.


    Not that I travel with my guitar, but I have no idea what kind of
    documentation you need these days not to run afoul of CITES regulations.
    There may be a few makers that have stock of Brazilian, but I assume
    it's pretty much history for guitar making--and I don't even know if
    Indian rosewood is safe to transport without papers.
    The guitar I play most is a 1960s Martin 00-16, so I'm not exactly
    playing a concert instrument either. Maybe I'll sploige someday.

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 27 05:55:18 2021
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 13:01:21 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/26/2021 10:54 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 3:04 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player,
    so you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had
    with it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report
    back with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).

    I'll have a go for a laugh. I presume there must be a way of adding
    string numbers and fingerings for sheet music so it knows how to
    produce the tab.


    OK, I'll try again, when I get the chance.


    I just did. It took about fifteen minutes to do the first measure, and
    that was made more complicated by its accidental.

    I worked on the first chord in the second measure, couldn't get it right
    and so I then gave up.

    This is much too difficult.


    I really don't know what route you're taking but I found it very easy (if
    not intuitive). And the tab can be tweaked VERY easily afterwards.

    Send me a sample of what you tried it with and I'll see if I can help.


    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 27 05:51:52 2021
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:58:28 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/26/2021 6:48 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player,
    so you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had
    with it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report
    back with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).

    I'll have a go for a laugh. I presume there must be a way of adding
    string numbers and fingerings for sheet music so it knows how to
    produce the tab.

    Here's a simple tune with auto tab:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BKef8AIUi-J6s4aLNCkZC4K6mtYsqe-G/view?
    usp=sharing


    Does it do the tabbing automatically, rather than letting you decide
    which string to play each note on? If so, that's probably what I didn't
    like about it.

    It does it automatically and then you can fine tune it.


    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Steven Bornfeld on Wed Oct 27 08:04:31 2021
    On 10/26/2021 6:54 PM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 6:11 PM, Ken Blake wrote:


    Sorry, I should mentioned that it's Indian rosewood, not Brazilian.


    Not that I travel with my guitar,


    I never do.


    but I have no idea what kind of
    documentation you need these days not to run afoul of CITES regulations. There may be a few makers that have stock of Brazilian, but I assume
    it's pretty much history for guitar making--and I don't even know if
    Indian rosewood is safe to transport without papers.


    It's hard to imagine an official caring about or even knowing what wood
    a guitar is made from.


    The guitar I play most is a 1960s Martin 00-16,


    Not exactly a classical guitar.

    I still have my Martin D-35 (around 1978), my main guitar until I
    started with classical guitar. I almost never even take it out of the
    case these days.



    so I'm not exactly
    playing a concert instrument either. Maybe I'll sploige someday.



    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Wed Oct 27 08:14:04 2021
    On 10/26/2021 10:55 PM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 13:01:21 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/26/2021 10:54 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 3:04 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would >>>>>> imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, >>>>>> so you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had
    with it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report >>>>> back with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).

    I'll have a go for a laugh. I presume there must be a way of adding
    string numbers and fingerings for sheet music so it knows how to
    produce the tab.


    OK, I'll try again, when I get the chance.


    I just did. It took about fifteen minutes to do the first measure, and
    that was made more complicated by its accidental.

    I worked on the first chord in the second measure, couldn't get it right
    and so I then gave up.

    This is much too difficult.


    I really don't know what route you're taking but I found it very easy (if
    not intuitive). And the tab can be tweaked VERY easily afterwards.

    Send me a sample of what you tried it with and I'll see if I can help.


    Thanks very much. I didn't save what I did, but I'll try to do it again
    later and send it to you.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Steven Bornfeld@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Wed Oct 27 11:55:59 2021
    On 10/27/2021 11:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 6:54 PM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
    On 10/26/2021 6:11 PM, Ken Blake wrote:


    Sorry, I should mentioned that it's Indian rosewood, not Brazilian.


    Not that I travel with my guitar,


    I never do.


    but I have no idea what kind of
    documentation you need these days not to run afoul of CITES regulations.
    There may be a few makers that have stock of Brazilian, but I assume
    it's pretty much history for guitar making--and I don't even know if
    Indian rosewood is safe to transport without papers.


    It's hard to imagine an official caring about or even knowing what wood
    a guitar is made from.


    The guitar I play most is a 1960s Martin 00-16,


    Not exactly a classical guitar.

    I misspoke--it's a 0016C. Still not really a classical.

    I still have my Martin D-35 (around 1978), my main guitar until I
    started with classical guitar. I almost never even take it out of the
    case these days.



    so I'm not exactly
    playing a concert instrument either.  Maybe I'll sploige someday.




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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 28 11:22:19 2021
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 09:59:13 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    PS: Going to a music shop in Málaga tomorrow. I want to see what a
    proper guitar feels and plays like. My Takamine 300€ jobby sounds awful
    and I don't think it's just my playing. Plucking the g string sounds
    like wacking a wall with a shoe.

    I've heard it said that the magic number for a student like me is 1000€. Anything below that will be a toy and anything above will be decoration.
    I keep seeing guitars advertised for much more.

    I'll let you know how I get on.

    Went to the shop. It's a typical town centre music shop selling a vast
    range of low-end everything.

    The assistant bloke wasn't interested in even talking to me.

    Back to square one.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 28 16:15:04 2021
    El Thu, 28 Oct 2021 08:56:05 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    I don't know anything about stores in Spain, but in my experience here
    in the US, a music store is almost always a poor place to shop for a classical guitar. Most of them have few to choose from and they are all usually of low quality.

    You need to go somewhere that specializes in classical guitars and
    that's often a shop where they are built, not a store.


    Yes, I feel a trip to Granada coming on. There *has* to a place there.
    And I did rather like using the trams when I was last there.


    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Thu Oct 28 08:56:05 2021
    On 10/28/2021 4:22 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 09:59:13 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    PS: Going to a music shop in Málaga tomorrow. I want to see what a
    proper guitar feels and plays like. My Takamine 300€ jobby sounds awful
    and I don't think it's just my playing. Plucking the g string sounds
    like wacking a wall with a shoe.

    I've heard it said that the magic number for a student like me is 1000€. >> Anything below that will be a toy and anything above will be decoration.
    I keep seeing guitars advertised for much more.

    I'll let you know how I get on.

    Went to the shop. It's a typical town centre music shop selling a vast
    range of low-end everything.

    The assistant bloke wasn't interested in even talking to me.

    Back to square one.


    I don't know anything about stores in Spain, but in my experience here
    in the US, a music store is almost always a poor place to shop for a
    classical guitar. Most of them have few to choose from and they are all
    usually of low quality.

    You need to go somewhere that specializes in classical guitars and
    that's often a shop where they are built, not a store.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Thu Oct 28 09:49:39 2021
    On 10/28/2021 9:15 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Thu, 28 Oct 2021 08:56:05 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    I don't know anything about stores in Spain, but in my experience here
    in the US, a music store is almost always a poor place to shop for a
    classical guitar. Most of them have few to choose from and they are all
    usually of low quality.

    You need to go somewhere that specializes in classical guitars and
    that's often a shop where they are built, not a store.


    Yes, I feel a trip to Granada coming on. There *has* to a place there.
    And I did rather like using the trams when I was last there.


    I just did a google search on granada spain buy classical guitar. There
    are apparently several choices there.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 29 11:49:09 2021
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so
    you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with
    it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of
    the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend giving it a try?


    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From JMF@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Fri Oct 29 19:21:55 2021
    On 10/29/2021 1:49 PM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with
    it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of
    the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend giving it a try?

    I'm happy to chime in here: I started using Musescore a few years ago
    and I'm happy with it. It's continually getting better. I do agree that
    in some ways it's not totally intuitive, and some guitar-oriented
    functionality isn't ideal, but overall my judgement is totally positive.

    A few things that help: it is essential to get hooked into the forum(s)
    so that you can ask questions or look up questions that others have
    asked. Usually that can be done right on the web, and there is also now
    a Facebook Musescore group where you can ask questions.

    That's important because every time I have needed to do something
    unusual, I have found out by asking a question that it was indeed
    possible -- but I never would have figured it out myself (that's the non-intuitive aspect).

    John

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 29 18:20:09 2021
    El Fri, 29 Oct 2021 19:21:55 +0200, JMF escribió:

    On 10/29/2021 1:49 PM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player,
    so you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had
    with it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report
    back with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of
    the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you
    recommend giving it a try?

    I'm happy to chime in here: I started using Musescore a few years ago
    and I'm happy with it. It's continually getting better. I do agree that
    in some ways it's not totally intuitive, and some guitar-oriented functionality isn't ideal, but overall my judgement is totally positive.

    A few things that help: it is essential to get hooked into the forum(s)
    so that you can ask questions or look up questions that others have
    asked. Usually that can be done right on the web, and there is also now
    a Facebook Musescore group where you can ask questions.

    That's important because every time I have needed to do something
    unusual, I have found out by asking a question that it was indeed
    possible -- but I never would have figured it out myself (that's the non-intuitive aspect).

    So far I've had very quick responses (click this, put your left hand
    behind your head, spit at the cat and shout "Aaaar" and as if by magic,
    it works a treat). And I think "Why didn't I figure that out?"

    I'm hoping they've taken some of this stuff on board in the latest
    version.

    It's a bit like The Gimp can do most of what Photoshop does, but nobody
    knows how to achieve it without asking in forums.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to JMF on Fri Oct 29 12:29:33 2021
    On 10/29/2021 10:21 AM, JMF wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 1:49 PM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with >>>> it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of
    the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend
    giving it a try?

    I'm happy to chime in here: I started using Musescore a few years ago
    and I'm happy with it. It's continually getting better. I do agree that
    in some ways it's not totally intuitive, and some guitar-oriented functionality isn't ideal, but overall my judgement is totally positive.

    A few things that help: it is essential to get hooked into the forum(s)
    so that you can ask questions or look up questions that others have
    asked. Usually that can be done right on the web, and there is also now
    a Facebook Musescore group where you can ask questions.

    That's important because every time I have needed to do something
    unusual, I have found out by asking a question that it was indeed
    possible --


    Yes, I suspected that the forum might give me answers to many of my
    questions, but I don't have the time or inclination to keep asking
    questions. I want to use programs that don't take a lot of work to
    understand.

    And I should also mention that I got a lot of help from Paul in e-mail messages, and I want to thank him for that again. But there's still too
    much I don't know how to do.


    but I never would have figured it out myself (that's the
    non-intuitive aspect).


    Yes! In my opinion, it's *terrible* in that regard, and that's why I'm
    giving up on it.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Fri Oct 29 12:24:56 2021
    On 10/29/2021 4:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with
    it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of
    the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend giving it a try?



    No. I've given up trying. There's no documentation on how to do things. Sometimes my guesses work, sometimes they don't. I may be wrong but I
    also think that trying to do a particular thing, the results are
    inconsistent; sometimes what I try works, sometimes trying the same
    thing fails to work.

    And I still can't figure out how to do some things. If the music was
    simpler, I might like it better, but it's next to useless for me for
    what I want to do.

    It might be a great program if it had a better interface--one that was intuitively easy to use--and if it had good documentation. It doesn't.
    If I had enough time to play with it and figure how to do everything, it
    might be a different story, but I don't.




    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Fri Oct 29 12:32:51 2021
    On 10/29/2021 12:24 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 4:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with >>>> it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of
    the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend
    giving it a try?



    No. I've given up trying. There's no documentation on how to do things. Sometimes my guesses work, sometimes they don't. I may be wrong but I
    also think that trying to do a particular thing, the results are inconsistent; sometimes what I try works, sometimes trying the same
    thing fails to work.

    And I still can't figure out how to do some things. If the music was
    simpler, I might like it better, but it's next to useless for me for
    what I want to do.

    It might be a great program if it had a better interface--one that was intuitively easy to use--and if it had good documentation. It doesn't.
    If I had enough time to play with it and figure how to do everything, it might be a different story, but I don't.


    And most important, I'll mention that I now have a lot of it memorized
    and the rest of it nearly memorized. Bad as I am at memorizing, if I
    keep working at it, I won't need anything like MuseScore.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Matt Faunce@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Sat Oct 30 01:32:29 2021
    Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 4:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would
    imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with >>>> it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back
    with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of
    the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend
    giving it a try?



    No. I've given up trying. There's no documentation on how to do things.


    There’s this guide. https://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/musescore-nightlies/handbook/MuseScore-3.0/MuseScore-en.pdf

    --
    Matt

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 30 08:11:20 2021
    El Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:24:56 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    If I had enough time to play with it and figure how to do everything, it might be a different story, but I don't.


    There we have it. I've neglected my Latin and guitar to mess with this
    program, but I enjoy that sort of stuff (background in IT), so I'm OK
    with that.

    Today I'm neglecting everything as it is my wedding anniversary.


    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 30 08:14:51 2021
    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 01:32:29 +0000, Matt Faunce escribió:

    Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 4:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would >>>>>> imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, >>>>>> so you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had
    with it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please
    report back with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version
    of the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you
    recommend giving it a try?



    No. I've given up trying. There's no documentation on how to do things.


    There’s this guide. https://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/musescore-nightlies/handbook/MuseScore-3.0/
    MuseScore-en.pdf

    That looks very comprehensive. I'm going to have a tour using the menus.



    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 30 08:08:21 2021
    El Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:29:33 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    <musescore non-intuitive>


    Yes! In my opinion, it's *terrible* in that regard, and that's why I'm
    giving up on it.


    I think we all know the answer.

    It's the same as LibreOffice vs MS Office

    The Gimp vs Photoshop

    Musescore vs Sibelius

    OmegaT vs SDL Trados.

    etc.

    If I need something professional, I buy it.

    I pay for Office 365.

    I pay for Photoshop.

    I pay for SDL TRados.

    I don't need to produce sheet music, so I use the freebie.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 30 08:37:10 2021
    El Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:29:33 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    And I should also mention that I got a lot of help from Paul in e-mail messages, and I want to thank him for that again.

    My pleasure.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From JMF@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Sat Oct 30 11:38:06 2021
    On 10/30/2021 10:08 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:29:33 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    <musescore non-intuitive>


    Yes! In my opinion, it's *terrible* in that regard, and that's why I'm
    giving up on it.


    I think we all know the answer.

    It's the same as LibreOffice vs MS Office

    The Gimp vs Photoshop

    Musescore vs Sibelius

    OmegaT vs SDL Trados.

    etc.

    If I need something professional, I buy it.

    I pay for Office 365.

    I pay for Photoshop.

    I pay for SDL TRados.

    I don't need to produce sheet music, so I use the freebie.

    Precisely.

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 30 14:09:38 2021
    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 08:14:51 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 01:32:29 +0000, Matt Faunce escribió:

    <musescore manual>

    There’s this guide.
    https://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/musescore-nightlies/handbook/MuseScore-3.0/
    MuseScore-en.pdf

    That looks very comprehensive. I'm going to have a tour using the menus.

    And the online hypertext version:

    https://musescore.org/en/handbook

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 30 15:20:32 2021
    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 14:09:38 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 08:14:51 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 01:32:29 +0000, Matt Faunce escribió:

    <musescore manual>

    There’s this guide.
    https://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/musescore-nightlies/handbook/MuseScore-3.0/
    MuseScore-en.pdf

    That looks very comprehensive. I'm going to have a tour using the
    menus.

    And the online hypertext version:

    https://musescore.org/en/handbook


    I see that much of it still refers to the wonderful new version 2.


    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Matt Faunce on Sat Oct 30 08:49:38 2021
    On 10/29/2021 6:32 PM, Matt Faunce wrote:
    Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 4:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would >>>>>> imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with >>>>> it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back >>>>> with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of
    the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend >>> giving it a try?



    No. I've given up trying. There's no documentation on how to do things.


    There’s this guide. https://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/musescore-nightlies/handbook/MuseScore-3.0/MuseScore-en.pdf


    Thanks very much. I hadn't seen this before. No time now, but I'll at it
    later, and perhaps try it again.



    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Sat Oct 30 09:01:04 2021
    On 10/30/2021 1:08 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:29:33 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    <musescore non-intuitive>


    Yes! In my opinion, it's *terrible* in that regard, and that's why I'm
    giving up on it.


    I think we all know the answer.

    It's the same as LibreOffice


    Never use it.


    vs MS Office


    I use Excel, but only rarely. My word processor of choice is
    WordPerfect, which I like *much* better than Word.



    The Gimp vs Photoshop


    I never use either one. My photo editing need are slight and the
    Microsoft Photo Gallery editor meets my needs and is easy to use.


    Musescore vs Sibelius



    I had Sibelius installed, but I hadn't tried it. Is it good? Better than MuseScore? I'll try to look at it this afternoon. It's $99, so it needs
    to be very good for me to consider buying it.



    OmegaT vs SDL Trados.



    I know nothing about either. I never us a translation tool.



    If I need something professional, I buy it.

    I pay for Office 365.

    I pay for Photoshop.

    I pay for SDL TRados.

    I don't need to produce sheet music, so I use the freebie.



    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Sat Oct 30 09:06:57 2021
    On 10/30/2021 1:11 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:24:56 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    If I had enough time to play with it and figure how to do everything, it
    might be a different story, but I don't.


    There we have it. I've neglected my Latin and guitar to mess with this program,


    I last studied Latin in High School, in 1953. I've neglected it ever
    since then.

    I never have enough time to practice the guitar as much as I want to>


    but I enjoy that sort of stuff (background in IT),


    Mine too. I started programming professionally in 1962.


    so I'm OK
    with that.


    Not me. Whether I might like to do it or not is irrelevant. There's not
    enough time to do all the many things I plan to do each day.


    Today I'm neglecting everything as it is my wedding anniversary.


    Congratulations! What number? My 62nd anniversary was this past June.



    --
    Ken

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 30 17:34:45 2021
    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:01:04 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:


    I had Sibelius installed, but I hadn't tried it. Is it good? Better than MuseScore?

    I haven't the faintest. It's very popular, I believe.

    I just looked and there is a cut-down version available for free.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Matt Faunce@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Sat Oct 30 17:31:30 2021
    Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 6:32 PM, Matt Faunce wrote:
    Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 4:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would >>>>>>> imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>>>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with >>>>>> it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back >>>>>> with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of >>>> the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend >>>> giving it a try?



    No. I've given up trying. There's no documentation on how to do things.


    There’s this guide.
    https://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/musescore-nightlies/handbook/MuseScore-3.0/MuseScore-en.pdf


    Thanks very much. I hadn't seen this before. No time now, but I'll at it later, and perhaps try it again.



    You’re welcome. I remembered purchasing a guide several years ago, and instead of looking on my computer for it I searched the www for it, but I
    found the link, posted above, instead. The guide I bought was written and
    sold by Katie Wardrobe, copyrighted 2011, and it’s for version 1.1. It
    served me well so I consider it money well spent. But there have been many changes in the program since 1.1, so I’m glad I looked and found the newer guide.

    --
    Matt

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 30 17:44:49 2021
    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:06:57 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/30/2021 1:11 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:

    Today I'm neglecting everything as it is my wedding anniversary.


    Congratulations! What number? My 62nd anniversary was this past June.


    23. But we've been together for more like 35.

    We had both been married before.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Paul Carmichael on Sat Oct 30 12:00:46 2021
    On 10/30/2021 10:34 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:01:04 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:


    I had Sibelius installed, but I hadn't tried it. Is it good? Better than
    MuseScore?

    I haven't the faintest. It's very popular, I believe.

    I just looked and there is a cut-down version available for free.



    I Just tried it. The interface seems much like MuseScore's--very confusing.

    I also looked at the manual for MuseScore Matt provided the link for. It
    helped a little but I still had a hard time doing what I wanted to do. I
    think I'm going to stick with pencil and paper.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Paul Carmichael@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 31 16:18:18 2021
    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 17:34:45 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:01:04 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:


    I had Sibelius installed, but I hadn't tried it. Is it good? Better
    than MuseScore?

    I haven't the faintest. It's very popular, I believe.

    I just looked and there is a cut-down version available for free.


    The only place I have mentioned Sibelius is here. All of a sudden,
    Facebook thinks I may be interested in the Sibelius Software group.

    Hmm, maybe the google search is the culprit.

    Scary.

    --
    Paul.

    https://paulc.es/elpatio

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Sun Oct 31 13:28:21 2021
    On 10/29/2021 12:32 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 12:24 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 4:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would >>>>>> imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with >>>>> it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back >>>>> with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of
    the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend >>> giving it a try?



    No. I've given up trying. There's no documentation on how to do things.
    Sometimes my guesses work, sometimes they don't. I may be wrong but I
    also think that trying to do a particular thing, the results are
    inconsistent; sometimes what I try works, sometimes trying the same
    thing fails to work.

    And I still can't figure out how to do some things. If the music was
    simpler, I might like it better, but it's next to useless for me for
    what I want to do.

    It might be a great program if it had a better interface--one that was
    intuitively easy to use--and if it had good documentation. It doesn't.
    If I had enough time to play with it and figure how to do everything, it
    might be a different story, but I don't.


    And most important, I'll mention that I now have a lot of it memorized
    and the rest of it nearly memorized. Bad as I am at memorizing, if I
    keep working at it, I won't need anything like MuseScore.


    Despite what I said above, I just downloaded a trial version of Guitar
    Pro 7 and I'm trying it with Le Rose. I seem to like it better than
    either MuseScore or Sibelius, and I now have the first 6 measures
    done--more that I had with the others.

    But perhaps it's easier for me because at least in some respects they
    have the same interface and I'm used to what it is at least a little.

    --
    Ken

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  • From Ken Blake@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Mon Nov 1 13:04:30 2021
    On 10/31/2021 1:28 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 12:32 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 12:24 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 4:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would >>>>>>> imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>>>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with >>>>>> it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back >>>>>> with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of >>>> the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend >>>> giving it a try?



    No. I've given up trying. There's no documentation on how to do things.
    Sometimes my guesses work, sometimes they don't. I may be wrong but I
    also think that trying to do a particular thing, the results are
    inconsistent; sometimes what I try works, sometimes trying the same
    thing fails to work.

    And I still can't figure out how to do some things. If the music was
    simpler, I might like it better, but it's next to useless for me for
    what I want to do.

    It might be a great program if it had a better interface--one that was
    intuitively easy to use--and if it had good documentation. It doesn't.
    If I had enough time to play with it and figure how to do everything, it >>> might be a different story, but I don't.


    And most important, I'll mention that I now have a lot of it memorized
    and the rest of it nearly memorized. Bad as I am at memorizing, if I
    keep working at it, I won't need anything like MuseScore.


    Despite what I said above, I just downloaded a trial version of Guitar
    Pro 7 and I'm trying it with Le Rose. I seem to like it better than
    either MuseScore or Sibelius, and I now have the first 6 measures
    done--more that I had with the others.

    But perhaps it's easier for me because at least in some respects they
    have the same interface and I'm used to what it is at least a little.



    Easier and perhaps better to me than either of the other two, but still difficult. It keeps making errors (or perhaps it's me making the errors
    because I don't know enough about how to do it), and I can't correct them.

    As with the others, if I had the time to study how to use and practice sufficiently, it might be great. But I don't, so I won't. I give up again.


    --
    Ken

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  • From Matt Faunce@21:1/5 to Ken Blake on Mon Nov 1 20:45:45 2021
    Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
    On 10/31/2021 1:28 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 12:32 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 12:24 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 4:49 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
    El Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:04:25 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

    El Mon, 25 Oct 2021 16:51:38 -0700, Ken Blake escribió:

    On 10/25/2021 3:25 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:


    Musescore is free and produces good-looking sheet music, so I would >>>>>>>> imagine the tab output will be good. It also has a built-in player, so >>>>>>>> you can "play" the output to make sure it sounds about right.


    I tried it a year or so ago. I don't remember what problems I had with >>>>>>> it, but it didn't work well for me. If you try it, please report back >>>>>>> with what you think of it.


    It's well thought of but, to me, not intuitive to use. It's been
    recently updated.

    I've produced some professional looking sheet music with it
    (transpositions).



    OK. Back to the public forum. Having now played with the new version of >>>>> the software, for the benefit of others reading this, would you recommend >>>>> giving it a try?



    No. I've given up trying. There's no documentation on how to do things. >>>> Sometimes my guesses work, sometimes they don't. I may be wrong but I
    also think that trying to do a particular thing, the results are
    inconsistent; sometimes what I try works, sometimes trying the same
    thing fails to work.

    And I still can't figure out how to do some things. If the music was
    simpler, I might like it better, but it's next to useless for me for
    what I want to do.

    It might be a great program if it had a better interface--one that was >>>> intuitively easy to use--and if it had good documentation. It doesn't. >>>> If I had enough time to play with it and figure how to do everything, it >>>> might be a different story, but I don't.


    And most important, I'll mention that I now have a lot of it memorized
    and the rest of it nearly memorized. Bad as I am at memorizing, if I
    keep working at it, I won't need anything like MuseScore.


    Despite what I said above, I just downloaded a trial version of Guitar
    Pro 7 and I'm trying it with Le Rose. I seem to like it better than
    either MuseScore or Sibelius, and I now have the first 6 measures
    done--more that I had with the others.

    But perhaps it's easier for me because at least in some respects they
    have the same interface and I'm used to what it is at least a little.



    Easier and perhaps better to me than either of the other two, but still difficult. It keeps making errors (or perhaps it's me making the errors because I don't know enough about how to do it), and I can't correct them.

    As with the others, if I had the time to study how to use and practice sufficiently, it might be great. But I don't, so I won't. I give up again.



    Ten to fifteen years ago there was talk of the development of a notation program that would be able to scan and read your penciled notation then
    output a nice computerized version. What happened with that?

    --
    Matt

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  • From John@21:1/5 to matt on Mon Nov 1 17:04:36 2021
    On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 1:45:46 PM UTC-7, matt wrote:

    Ten to fifteen years ago there was talk of the development of a notation program that would be able to scan and read your penciled notation then output a nice computerized version. What happened with that?

    There are several such programs. See:

    https://www.scoringnotes.com/reviews/a-review-of-optical-music-recognition-software/

    for a comparison.

    John R.

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  • From Matt Faunce@21:1/5 to John on Tue Nov 2 20:27:55 2021
    John <johnrethorst@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 1:45:46 PM UTC-7, matt wrote:

    Ten to fifteen years ago there was talk of the development of a notation
    program that would be able to scan and read your penciled notation then
    output a nice computerized version. What happened with that?

    There are several such programs. See:

    https://www.scoringnotes.com/reviews/a-review-of-optical-music-recognition-software/

    for a comparison.

    John R.


    Thanks, John. So there hasn’t been sufficient progress. According to that link, there’s only one program that can read handwritten notation, and that program only recognizes one style of writing. I wonder which style.

    I didn’t listen to the podcast, but the comments section told me the main thing I wanted to know.

    --
    Matt

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