• Exhaust gas analyzer have any value in tuning a motorcycle carb?

    From mike@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 14 02:43:58 2017
    I'm still tweaking this Kawasaki Eliminator 125
    to get rid of the detonation.

    Somewhere in the attic, I have an ancient exhaust gas analyzer.
    IIRC, it works by passing an infrared light thru the exhaust
    and divines air/fuel ratio from that.
    Was made back when there was lead in the gas.

    Does that method have any value with current engine/fuel
    designs?

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  • From Mark Olson@21:1/5 to mike on Mon Aug 14 17:45:47 2017
    mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
    I'm still tweaking this Kawasaki Eliminator 125
    to get rid of the detonation.

    Somewhere in the attic, I have an ancient exhaust gas analyzer.
    IIRC, it works by passing an infrared light thru the exhaust
    and divines air/fuel ratio from that.
    Was made back when there was lead in the gas.

    Does that method have any value with current engine/fuel
    designs?

    Sure. Assuming it still works, it has no way of knowing whether you
    are using a carb or fuel injection.

    Are you sure your detonation problem is definitely down to the mixture
    being too lean? Ignition timing would be the first thing I would
    check. And before anyone says if the timing is right at idle it must
    be OK at higher RPMs, I would not assume that.

    I had a weird issue with a 1995 Kawasaki EX500 ignition module (K calls
    it the "IC Igniter") that had a timing problem between cylinders (one
    was OK the other one was advanced by 6 degrees) even though the engine
    only has a single ignition trigger coil, and the magnetic reluctor
    pole pieces on the rotor were exactly as they should have been.
    Replacing the IC Igniter did in fact fix the problem (verified with
    an O-scope).

    If this was my bike I would be checking ignition timing at various
    RPMs to make sure it's correct.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mike@21:1/5 to Mark Olson on Mon Aug 14 13:57:13 2017
    On 8/14/2017 10:45 AM, Mark Olson wrote:
    mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
    I'm still tweaking this Kawasaki Eliminator 125
    to get rid of the detonation.

    Somewhere in the attic, I have an ancient exhaust gas analyzer.
    IIRC, it works by passing an infrared light thru the exhaust
    and divines air/fuel ratio from that.
    Was made back when there was lead in the gas.

    Does that method have any value with current engine/fuel
    designs?

    Sure. Assuming it still works, it has no way of knowing whether you
    are using a carb or fuel injection.

    Are you sure your detonation problem is definitely down to the mixture
    being too lean? Ignition timing would be the first thing I would
    check. And before anyone says if the timing is right at idle it must
    be OK at higher RPMs, I would not assume that.

    I had a weird issue with a 1995 Kawasaki EX500 ignition module (K calls
    it the "IC Igniter") that had a timing problem between cylinders (one
    was OK the other one was advanced by 6 degrees) even though the engine
    only has a single ignition trigger coil, and the magnetic reluctor
    pole pieces on the rotor were exactly as they should have been.
    Replacing the IC Igniter did in fact fix the problem (verified with
    an O-scope).

    Can you give more details on how you set up the scope to make that
    measurement?
    I have an inductive pickup that clamps on the spark plug wire to
    read the spark. How did you determine the TDC position?
    I could intercept the crank position sensor, but that doesn't
    tell me whether that signal is in the correct relationship to TDC.
    If the timing light says the spark is at the T position on the
    cam sprocket, there isn't much one can do.

    The service manual has a detailed write-up on how the ignition works.
    Has a nice graph of the advance curve, but it has no numbers about
    the RPM of each inflection point. I'll take a crack at the timing
    this afternoon.

    And the bike has no tach. I have a timing light with a tach, but
    it's for 4-8 cylinders and the resolution is useless for one cylinder.

    If this was my bike I would be checking ignition timing at various
    RPMs to make sure it's correct.

    Thanks, I'll take all the advice I can get.

    I've concentrated on carburetor because:
    There's little written about this bike, but most of what exists
    complains about it running dangerously lean.
    The spark plug insulator was bone-chilling white.
    It was detonating at speed ranges much above idle under acceleration.
    Cruising was not a problem for detonation, but surging at high speed
    was an issue.

    It's a 2007 model with 423 miles on it. Apparently been in
    storage for 5 years.
    A treatment with SeaFoam and backing out the pilot screw fixed
    the hanging idle, but it still detonates. Cranked the pilot screw
    out 4 turns and still not much improvement in ping, but it feels/sounds rich just off idle.

    I cleaned the carb best I could. There was no gunk in it at all.
    I was amazed at how clean it looked.
    I wasn't too aggressive because
    the manual warns about non-removable internal plastic parts.
    They don't say where, but I decided not to use carb cleaner with
    acetone or toluene. Stuck with simple green and water in an ultrasonic cleaner.
    I couldn't get the pilot jet out. Twisted as hard as I dared and decided
    to come back another day. Low speed was ok.
    I did hook up a vacuum pump and sucked fluid back thru the jets.
    All the tiny holes in the venturi seemed to be open.

    External fuel level measurement showed it to be at the low end of
    the 4mm spec range. I moved it up to the top end. I was unable
    to remove the float pin. It's pressed in and resisted careful
    attempts to press it out.

    At that point the performance was markedly improved. Spark plug
    now has a little color. Still pinging
    around 1/4-1/2 throttle accelerating thru the gears, but ok at cruise.

    I raised the main jet needle .020", then .035". Both improved the
    situation. I'll try one more increment to .050" before I give up.

    Raised the main jet to 130. Improved the pinging. It's now
    sounding rich at top end. Putting the fuel level back to
    midrange might help that.

    The performance of the 125 is crap, but probably the best I can
    expect from a small engine. My concern is the pinging destroying
    the engine. The pinging increases as the engine warms up.

    I've been all over it with propane an detected no air leaks.
    I experimented with blocking part of the air filter.
    With 1/3 of it blocked, the bike would hardly run. Much greater
    effect than I expected. I can't see how you'd ever keep the bike
    in tune if it's that sensitive.

    I'd agree that delaying the spark advance to a higher
    RPM might fix the problem. I just don't think that's possible.
    I'll take a timing light to it as soon as I get the tach built.
    I'll drag out the gas analyzer and see what it tells me.
    I have a Snap-ON automotive oscilloscope, but the screen resolution
    is too low to see two sparks on screen to measure RPM. Probably
    works great on an 8-cylinder car.

    Probably time to twist on the pilot jet until it comes out or breaks.

    I've tried a lot of stuff, but it should be obvious that I have no idea
    what I'm doing. I've been driving the same Honda Shadow VT-500c for
    over 30 years. Never had any issues with the CV carbs in that one.

    Any additional advice welcome.
    mike

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  • From Mark Olson@21:1/5 to mike on Mon Aug 14 22:51:23 2017
    mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
    On 8/14/2017 10:45 AM, Mark Olson wrote:
    mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
    I'm still tweaking this Kawasaki Eliminator 125
    to get rid of the detonation.

    Somewhere in the attic, I have an ancient exhaust gas analyzer.
    IIRC, it works by passing an infrared light thru the exhaust
    and divines air/fuel ratio from that.
    Was made back when there was lead in the gas.

    Does that method have any value with current engine/fuel
    designs?

    Sure. Assuming it still works, it has no way of knowing whether you
    are using a carb or fuel injection.

    Are you sure your detonation problem is definitely down to the mixture
    being too lean? Ignition timing would be the first thing I would
    check. And before anyone says if the timing is right at idle it must
    be OK at higher RPMs, I would not assume that.

    I had a weird issue with a 1995 Kawasaki EX500 ignition module (K calls
    it the "IC Igniter") that had a timing problem between cylinders (one
    was OK the other one was advanced by 6 degrees) even though the engine
    only has a single ignition trigger coil, and the magnetic reluctor
    pole pieces on the rotor were exactly as they should have been.
    Replacing the IC Igniter did in fact fix the problem (verified with
    an O-scope).

    Can you give more details on how you set up the scope to make that measurement?

    I "made" a scope by constructing a resistive voltage divider network
    and connected it to the primary side of the coil, running it into the
    sound card of an old laptop. Recording the "sound" of the waveform let
    me look at the relationship of the spark pulse vs. the pulse from the
    trigger coil (stereo input of the sound card = 2 channel scope).

    I knew the timing was off simply by looking at the timing marks with a inductive timing light from the 1980s, still works fine. I could see
    the one cylinder was off by 6 degrees vs. the other one (accounting for
    the fact that it's a 180 degree crank, naturally).

    I have an inductive pickup that clamps on the spark plug wire to
    read the spark. How did you determine the TDC position?

    By shining the timing light on the timing marks. TDC is engraved on the alternator rotor which is visible through the timing access port. The
    correct degree position for timing at low RPM is also marked for both cylinders.

    I could intercept the crank position sensor, but that doesn't
    tell me whether that signal is in the correct relationship to TDC.

    I took a photo of the position of the timing marks when the timing
    light fired and measured the angle graphically.

    If the timing light says the spark is at the T position on the
    cam sprocket, there isn't much one can do.

    Sure- you can check to see how far the mark advances as you go up in
    RPM. You might have to paint/engrave some of your own marks on the
    flywheel to do this.

    The service manual has a detailed write-up on how the ignition works.
    Has a nice graph of the advance curve, but it has no numbers about
    the RPM of each inflection point. I'll take a crack at the timing
    this afternoon.

    Yeah, without that info, or having some general knowledge about how
    far timing should advance (I have a buddy who is an absolute expert
    on this stuff) you're going to have to ask or do some research to
    figure out what sort of numbers are reasonable.

    And the bike has no tach. I have a timing light with a tach, but
    it's for 4-8 cylinders and the resolution is useless for one cylinder.

    Tach is easy- just measure the time interval between trigger coil
    pulses and take the inverse to get Hz, then divide by 60 to get RPM.

    If this was my bike I would be checking ignition timing at various
    RPMs to make sure it's correct.

    Thanks, I'll take all the advice I can get.

    I've concentrated on carburetor because:
    There's little written about this bike, but most of what exists
    complains about it running dangerously lean.
    The spark plug insulator was bone-chilling white.
    It was detonating at speed ranges much above idle under acceleration. Cruising was not a problem for detonation, but surging at high speed
    was an issue.

    Yep, sounds lean.

    It's a 2007 model with 423 miles on it. Apparently been in
    storage for 5 years.
    A treatment with SeaFoam and backing out the pilot screw fixed
    the hanging idle, but it still detonates. Cranked the pilot screw
    out 4 turns and still not much improvement in ping, but it feels/sounds rich just off idle.

    I cleaned the carb best I could. There was no gunk in it at all.
    I was amazed at how clean it looked.
    I wasn't too aggressive because
    the manual warns about non-removable internal plastic parts.
    They don't say where, but I decided not to use carb cleaner with
    acetone or toluene. Stuck with simple green and water in an ultrasonic cleaner.
    I couldn't get the pilot jet out. Twisted as hard as I dared and decided
    to come back another day. Low speed was ok.
    I did hook up a vacuum pump and sucked fluid back thru the jets.
    All the tiny holes in the venturi seemed to be open.

    External fuel level measurement showed it to be at the low end of
    the 4mm spec range. I moved it up to the top end. I was unable
    to remove the float pin. It's pressed in and resisted careful
    attempts to press it out.

    In my experience, motorcycle carburetor float pins aren't pressed in,
    they're a slide fit and only held in place by the carb bowl.

    At that point the performance was markedly improved. Spark plug
    now has a little color. Still pinging
    around 1/4-1/2 throttle accelerating thru the gears, but ok at cruise.

    Fuel level has a huge effect on mixture, as you found.

    I raised the main jet needle .020", then .035". Both improved the
    situation. I'll try one more increment to .050" before I give up.

    That sounds like a lot.

    Raised the main jet to 130. Improved the pinging. It's now
    sounding rich at top end. Putting the fuel level back to
    midrange might help that.

    The performance of the 125 is crap, but probably the best I can
    expect from a small engine. My concern is the pinging destroying
    the engine. The pinging increases as the engine warms up.

    I've been all over it with propane an detected no air leaks.
    I experimented with blocking part of the air filter.
    With 1/3 of it blocked, the bike would hardly run. Much greater
    effect than I expected. I can't see how you'd ever keep the bike
    in tune if it's that sensitive.

    I'd agree that delaying the spark advance to a higher
    RPM might fix the problem. I just don't think that's possible.

    What I am saying is that it is possible for your ignition unit to
    be defective, but still work. Once you get your head around that,
    and check to see whether or not it is the case, you can rule it in
    or out. When I say defective, I mean it has the wrong advance curve,
    but it still happily produces sparks at the high tension side of the
    coil. Just not necessarily at the right time.

    I've had this discussion before with people who can't understand that
    an electronic circuit can fail in unusual and unexpected ways, not just
    either working or dead. If you have timing controlled by capacitors,
    and the capacitors lose capacitance over time (actually quite common)
    you can have weird things happen.

    I'm not even saying that bad spark advance is your problem- obviously
    the mixture was off quite a bit and you've sufficiently richened it
    up so you might be getting to the rich side of things. If it's still
    pinging, it might just be too much advance.

    Does it get better with premium gas?

    I'll take a timing light to it as soon as I get the tach built.
    I'll drag out the gas analyzer and see what it tells me.
    I have a Snap-ON automotive oscilloscope, but the screen resolution
    is too low to see two sparks on screen to measure RPM. Probably
    works great on an 8-cylinder car.

    Probably time to twist on the pilot jet until it comes out or breaks.

    I've tried a lot of stuff, but it should be obvious that I have no idea
    what I'm doing. I've been driving the same Honda Shadow VT-500c for
    over 30 years. Never had any issues with the CV carbs in that one.

    Any additional advice welcome.
    mike

    I've pretty much exhausted what I can tell you at this point.

    Good luck.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mike@21:1/5 to Mark Olson on Tue Aug 15 01:05:36 2017
    On 8/14/2017 3:51 PM, Mark Olson wrote:
    mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:

    Thanks for talking me thru this.

    On 8/14/2017 10:45 AM, Mark Olson wrote:
    mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
    I'm still tweaking this Kawasaki Eliminator 125
    to get rid of the detonation.

    Somewhere in the attic, I have an ancient exhaust gas analyzer.
    IIRC, it works by passing an infrared light thru the exhaust
    and divines air/fuel ratio from that.
    Was made back when there was lead in the gas.

    Does that method have any value with current engine/fuel
    designs?

    Sure. Assuming it still works, it has no way of knowing whether you
    are using a carb or fuel inject

    I'd agree if it were measuring gas concentration.
    The thing is a couple of thermistors in a bridge measuring
    thermal conductivity of the gas...I think...
    It's measuring a symptom and inferring a fuel/air ratio. I'd expect
    that to be sensitive to a lot of different things.

    But, I dug it out, fixed it and bolted it onto the gas tank.
    I adjusted the pilot adjustment for just under 13:1 and took it
    for a drive.
    According to it, the bike is running seriously rich. Meter goes off
    scale at 11:1.

    The sequence of my modifications was dependent on the availability
    of the parts, so I decided to remove the modifications to the top
    of the carb. Put back the main jet needle spacers to stock.
    I left the 130 main jet installed.
    I had to back the pilot adjustment out to 3 turns to get the idle
    mixture back near 13:1. I went for a drive. Can't tell much difference.
    Was dark. I'll put the A/F meter back on it tomorrow and see
    how it looks under load. I half expect a cop to pull me over
    for all the equipment hanging off the bike. "Hello officer,
    you need help tuning your carburetor?"

    I did check the timing. Supposed to be 10 BTDC at idle and 35 at
    4500 RPM. Still don't have a tach, but the advance numbers are right on.
    This is a Kawasaki BN125-A8. Versions earlier than A5 stopped the
    advance at 30 BTDC.

    Are you sure your detonation problem is definitely down to the mixture
    being too lean? Ignition timing would be the first thing I would
    check. And before anyone says if the timing is right at idle it must
    be OK at higher RPMs, I would not assume that.

    I'm not really sure of anything. My previous newest bike was/is
    a 1983 Honda Shadow VT500C. What I've learned from riding and
    working on it for the last 30 years doesn't seem to give much
    guidance relative to the 2007 Kawasaki.
    The timing appears to be right on spec.

    I had a weird issue with a 1995 Kawasaki EX500 ignition module (K calls
    it the "IC Igniter") that had a timing problem between cylinders (one
    was OK the other one was advanced by 6 degrees) even though the engine
    only has a single ignition trigger coil, and the magnetic reluctor
    pole pieces on the rotor were exactly as they should have been.
    Replacing the IC Igniter did in fact fix the problem (verified with
    an O-scope).

    Can you give more details on how you set up the scope to make that
    measurement?

    I "made" a scope by constructing a resistive voltage divider network
    and connected it to the primary side of the coil, running it into the
    sound card of an old laptop. Recording the "sound" of the waveform let
    me look at the relationship of the spark pulse vs. the pulse from the
    trigger coil (stereo input of the sound card = 2 channel scope).

    Interesting.
    I have a Snap-ON engine scope. I was gonna do the same as you described,
    but the memory is so small that, by the time you slow the sweep
    to the point you can see two sparks, the pulses are so narrow that
    you can't see them.
    I'm not about to put my good digital scope anywhere near a spark plug.
    I did write some code for a Palm Pilot to give real-time numbers
    for RPM and spark advance, but
    haven't tried it. Not sure whether interpreted BASIC is fast
    enough to keep up.

    I knew the timing was off simply by looking at the timing marks with a inductive timing light from the 1980s, still works fine. I could see
    the one cylinder was off by 6 degrees vs. the other one (accounting for
    the fact that it's a 180 degree crank, naturally).

    I have an inductive pickup that clamps on the spark plug wire to
    read the spark. How did you determine the TDC position?

    By shining the timing light on the timing marks. TDC is engraved on the alternator rotor which is visible through the timing access port. The
    correct degree position for timing at low RPM is also marked for both cylinders.

    I could intercept the crank position sensor, but that doesn't
    tell me whether that signal is in the correct relationship to TDC.

    I took a photo of the position of the timing marks when the timing
    light fired and measured the angle graphically.

    If the timing light says the spark is at the T position on the
    cam sprocket, there isn't much one can do.

    Sure- you can check to see how far the mark advances as you go up in
    RPM. You might have to paint/engrave some of your own marks on the
    flywheel to do this.

    I made a plastic cover to contain the oil, after I cleaned up
    the oil that went everywhere, and marked the spec'd angles
    on the plastic. Seems to be dead on.


    The service manual has a detailed write-up on how the ignition works.
    Has a nice graph of the advance curve, but it has no numbers about
    the RPM of each inflection point. I'll take a crack at the timing
    this afternoon.

    Yeah, without that info, or having some general knowledge about how
    far timing should advance (I have a buddy who is an absolute expert
    on this stuff) you're going to have to ask or do some research to
    figure out what sort of numbers are reasonable.

    And the bike has no tach. I have a timing light with a tach, but
    it's for 4-8 cylinders and the resolution is useless for one cylinder.

    Tach is easy- just measure the time interval between trigger coil
    pulses and take the inverse to get Hz, then divide by 60 to get RPM.

    If this was my bike I would be checking ignition timing at various
    RPMs to make sure it's correct.

    Thanks, I'll take all the advice I can get.

    I've concentrated on carburetor because:
    There's little written about this bike, but most of what exists
    complains about it running dangerously lean.
    The spark plug insulator was bone-chilling white.
    It was detonating at speed ranges much above idle under acceleration.
    Cruising was not a problem for detonation, but surging at high speed
    was an issue.

    Yep, sounds lean.

    It's a 2007 model with 423 miles on it. Apparently been in
    storage for 5 years.
    A treatment with SeaFoam and backing out the pilot screw fixed
    the hanging idle, but it still detonates. Cranked the pilot screw
    out 4 turns and still not much improvement in ping, but it feels/sounds rich >> just off idle.

    I cleaned the carb best I could. There was no gunk in it at all.
    I was amazed at how clean it looked.
    I wasn't too aggressive because
    the manual warns about non-removable internal plastic parts.
    They don't say where, but I decided not to use carb cleaner with
    acetone or toluene. Stuck with simple green and water in an ultrasonic
    cleaner.
    I couldn't get the pilot jet out. Twisted as hard as I dared and decided
    to come back another day. Low speed was ok.
    I did hook up a vacuum pump and sucked fluid back thru the jets.
    All the tiny holes in the venturi seemed to be open.

    External fuel level measurement showed it to be at the low end of
    the 4mm spec range. I moved it up to the top end. I was unable
    to remove the float pin. It's pressed in and resisted careful
    attempts to press it out.

    In my experience, motorcycle carburetor float pins aren't pressed in,
    they're a slide fit and only held in place by the carb bowl.

    My experience agrees, but the manual for the Mikuni BS28 carb
    definitely says it's pressed in and warns about breaking the
    casting trying to get it out. I pushed and banged on it as hard
    as I dared. It would be a lot easier if I knew which end had the
    press fit so I could support that support post.
    If I ever have to mess with the
    float valve, I'll risk it then. All this EPA anti-modification
    stuff is annoying.

    At that point the performance was markedly improved. Spark plug
    now has a little color. Still pinging
    around 1/4-1/2 throttle accelerating thru the gears, but ok at cruise.

    Fuel level has a huge effect on mixture, as you found.
    I'm thinking about lowering it back to the middle of the spec range,
    but it's very difficult when you can't remove the pin that holds the
    float.

    I raised the main jet needle .020", then .035". Both improved the
    situation. I'll try one more increment to .050" before I give up.

    That sounds like a lot.
    Agree. I did find an independent shop that suggested the .020.
    It got better, so I tried .035.

    Raised the main jet to 130. Improved the pinging. It's now
    sounding rich at top end. Putting the fuel level back to
    midrange might help that.

    The performance of the 125 is crap, but probably the best I can
    expect from a small engine. My concern is the pinging destroying
    the engine. The pinging increases as the engine warms up.

    I've been all over it with propane and detected no air leaks.
    I experimented with blocking part of the air filter.
    With 1/3 of it blocked, the bike would hardly run. Much greater
    effect than I expected. I can't see how you'd ever keep the bike
    in tune if it's that sensitive.

    I'd agree that delaying the spark advance to a higher
    RPM might fix the problem. I just don't think that's possible.

    What I am saying is that it is possible for your ignition unit to
    be defective, but still work. Once you get your head around that,
    and check to see whether or not it is the case, you can rule it in
    or out. When I say defective, I mean it has the wrong advance curve,
    but it still happily produces sparks at the high tension side of the
    coil. Just not necessarily at the right time.

    Well, I tested it and it seems to be doing what it is designed to do.
    Don't yet know the exact RPM related to the curve, but it sounds about
    right.

    I've had this discussion before with people who can't understand that
    an electronic circuit can fail in unusual and unexpected ways, not just either working or dead. If you have timing controlled by capacitors,
    and the capacitors lose capacitance over time (actually quite common)
    you can have weird things happen.

    I'm an electrical engineer, so very familiar with stuff like that.
    Took me all afternoon to figger out the intermittent in the A/F meter.
    Turns out that the voltage regulator can't turn on until it
    is turned on.
    They put a cap to pulse it on when you apply power, but my
    power supply had a soft start that didn't always make it go.


    I'm not even saying that bad spark advance is your problem- obviously
    the mixture was off quite a bit and you've sufficiently richened it
    up so you might be getting to the rich side of things. If it's still
    pinging, it might just be too much advance.

    Does it get better with premium gas?
    I never run anything but premium gas. I did try three different brands.
    Google did find some people claiming that premium gas is always stale
    because the volume is very low.
    All the gas I have has remnants of SeaFoam in it. I'll have to run thru
    that and get some fresh before I finish tweaking.

    I'm resisting the temptation to dump it into the truck. Wouldn't be
    the first time I started with one good thing and one busted thing,
    only to end up with two busted things.


    I'll take a timing light to it as soon as I get the tach built.
    I'll drag out the gas analyzer and see what it tells me.
    I have a Snap-ON automotive oscilloscope, but the screen resolution
    is too low to see two sparks on screen to measure RPM. Probably
    works great on an 8-cylinder car.

    Probably time to twist on the pilot jet until it comes out or breaks.

    I've tried a lot of stuff, but it should be obvious that I have no idea
    what I'm doing. I've been driving the same Honda Shadow VT-500c for
    over 30 years. Never had any issues with the CV carbs in that one.

    I'm 69 years old and use the bike mostly for garage sales.
    The shadow is too top heavy to manhandle around a gravel driveway
    on a slope. I'm afraid I'll drop it and break a hip.
    I need a smaller bike like this Kawasaki.
    It's the only small affordable bike I found that lets you ride sitting up.
    And it was 1/4 the cost of my next best option in a new bike.

    Any additional advice welcome.
    mike

    I've pretty much exhausted what I can tell you at this point.

    One thing I've learned is that if I keep talking about it,
    more people chime in. Sometimes you even get a solution ;-)

    Good luck.


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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)