• Switch list Vs Waybills

    From Dale Arends@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Sun Apr 19 13:54:03 2020
    Frank Rosenbaum <frankrosenbaum4@gmail.com> wrote in news:9c072416-d704-4bdd-aa7f-b0fa3710ee73@googlegroups.com:

    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why
    you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they
    worth the effort?


    When I don't free-run the trains, I use a switch list for my small N scale layout. I decided on it since I genreally run solo. With a switch list I
    can take as much time as I want before moving a car. If you plan on having
    more than one operator, waybills often work better since things are often timing dependent (have to pick up a car before others can be dropped onto
    the siding.)

    --
    Dale M. Arends


    --
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  • From Frank Rosenbaum@21:1/5 to Dale Arends on Sun Apr 19 12:05:05 2020
    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 1:54:08 PM UTC-5, Dale Arends wrote:
    Frank Rosenbaum wrote in news:9c072416-d704-4bdd-aa7f-b0fa3710ee73@googlegroups.com:

    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why
    you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they
    worth the effort?


    When I don't free-run the trains, I use a switch list for my small N scale layout. I decided on it since I genreally run solo. With a switch list I
    can take as much time as I want before moving a car. If you plan on having more than one operator, waybills often work better since things are often timing dependent (have to pick up a car before others can be dropped onto
    the siding.)

    --
    Dale M. Arends


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    Thank you Dale, for the quick response. How many industries do you have? My HO railroad is around the walls in a full footprint basement so it is fairly large. I have the ability to keep 7 operators busy, even though I am alone.

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  • From Frank Rosenbaum@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 19 11:35:17 2020
    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effort?

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  • From Robert Heller@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Sun Apr 19 15:32:08 2020
    At Sun, 19 Apr 2020 11:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Frank Rosenbaum <frankrosenbaum4@gmail.com> wrote:


    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effort?

    The Model Railroad System (https://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem) includes a program called "Freight Car Forwarder". This program uses a
    database (in flat text files) that represent your railroad, its yards and industries, trains, and cars, and generates switch lists that will get the proper cars to the proper places on the proper trains. (It actually simulate a run shift.) You run the program and then print out the switch lists it generates. You can carry the switch list with you as you operate the train around the layout. Also included are switch lists [yard lists?] for the yard master(s) to put together trains at the source yards, so the trains can be
    made up properly, with the cars in the proper order and blocking. The computer does all of the "mindless" work, so you can do the "fun" part running trains and switching cars along the way.



    --
    Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux, MS-Windows, and MacOSX heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

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  • From Frank Rosenbaum@21:1/5 to Robert Heller on Sun Apr 19 14:51:59 2020
    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 3:32:14 PM UTC-5, Robert Heller wrote:
    At Sun, 19 Apr 2020 11:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Frank Rosenbaum <frankrosenbaum4@gmail.com> wrote:


    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effort?

    The Model Railroad System (https://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem) includes a program called "Freight Car Forwarder". This program uses a database (in flat text files) that represent your railroad, its yards and industries, trains, and cars, and generates switch lists that will get the proper cars to the proper places on the proper trains. (It actually simulate a
    run shift.) You run the program and then print out the switch lists it generates. You can carry the switch list with you as you operate the train around the layout. Also included are switch lists [yard lists?] for the yard master(s) to put together trains at the source yards, so the trains can be made up properly, with the cars in the proper order and blocking. The computer
    does all of the "mindless" work, so you can do the "fun" part running trains and switching cars along the way.



    --
    Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux, MS-Windows, and MacOSX heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

    Thank you for your reply. I am currently using Easy Model Railroad Inventory. I have found that making a switch list is done manually, one car at a time. Does the Model Railroad System have that limitation? I can export all the data to an excel file. Can
    MRS Import that? Does it also have the ability to print waybills?

    Again, thanks for the reply.
    Frank
    FAR Seas Connecting Railroad

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  • From Robert Heller@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Sun Apr 19 19:02:25 2020
    At Sun, 19 Apr 2020 14:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Frank Rosenbaum <frankrosenbaum4@gmail.com> wrote:


    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 3:32:14 PM UTC-5, Robert Heller wrote:
    At Sun, 19 Apr 2020 11:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Frank Rosenbaum <frankrosenbaum4=
    @gmail.com> wrote:
    =20
    =20
    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you=
    use
    one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effort?
    =20
    The Model Railroad System (https://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem) includes a program called "Freight Car Forwarder". This program uses a database (in flat text files) that represent your railroad, its yards and industries, trains, and cars, and generates switch lists that will get th=
    e
    proper cars to the proper places on the proper trains. (It actually simul=
    ate a
    run shift.) You run the program and then print out the switch lists it generates. You can carry the switch list with you as you operate the trai=
    n
    around the layout. Also included are switch lists [yard lists?] for the y=
    ard
    master(s) to put together trains at the source yards, so the trains can b=
    e
    made up properly, with the cars in the proper order and blocking. The com=
    puter
    does all of the "mindless" work, so you can do the "fun" part running tra=
    ins
    and switching cars along the way.
    =20
    =20
    =20
    --=20
    Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-=
    5364
    Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux, MS-Windows, and MacOSX heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

    Thank you for your reply. I am currently using Easy Model Railroad Inventor= y. I have found that making a switch list is done manually, one car at a ti= me. Does the Model Railroad System have that limitation? I can export all t= he data to an excel file. Can MRS Import that? Does it also have the abilit= y to print waybills?

    Model Railroad System computes the complete switch list automagically for
    every train and yard lists for every yard. It uses a "database" (a bunch of flat text files) that describe your railroad: its divisions, stations, industries & yards, trains, and cars. Industries are marked with the kinds of cars they unload and load, cars are marked by type, whether they are loaded or unloaded, and where they are on the railroad, how long they are, their clearance plate, weight (loaded and unloaded), and length. Industries also are marked with how long their siding is and yards are also marked with a siding length. Trains are marked with things like max length, clearence plate, max weight, etc. The program goes through the list of cars, finding cars that need to go someplace -- eg a loaded lumber car needs to go to a lumber yard or at least some place that could use a load of lumber. An empty grain hopper needs to get to a grain elevator, etc. It then figures out which train or trains
    will get the car to where it needs to go. Maybe on a local yard job to get in from an industry siding to a yard where it can be added to a regular freight train to be hauled to another yard where another local yard job will haul it
    to its destination. It adds the car to the switch list(s) for the trains
    and/or yards involved. Eventually the switch lists and yard lists are complete and are printed out, ready for your operators to use as they operate their trains. It essentually simulates one shift of operation. It does not print waybills.

    The car data file is (effectively) a CSV file, with a header containing the
    max car count. Actually all of the data files are effectively CSV files, in that they are lines of comma separated data -- originally meant for being read by a BASIC program. So if your data is in excel, it should be possible to do some data manipulation and then exported as a CSV file. It may need some post processing. There are some sample data file sets that are well documented that should help you out.


    Again, thanks for the reply.
    Frank
    FAR Seas Connecting Railroad


    --
    Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux, MS-Windows, and MacOSX heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

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  • From Dale Arends@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Mon Apr 20 13:32:49 2020
    Frank Rosenbaum <frankrosenbaum4@gmail.com> wrote in news:4dffca13-8988-4a09-a10c-95827380c00e@googlegroups.com:

    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 1:54:08 PM UTC-5, Dale Arends wrote:
    Frank Rosenbaum wrote in
    news:9c072416-d704-4bdd-aa7f-b0fa3710ee73@googlegroups.com:

    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate
    your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all,
    and why you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive.
    Are they worth the effort?


    When I don't free-run the trains, I use a switch list for my small N
    scale layout. I decided on it since I genreally run solo. With a
    switch list I can take as much time as I want before moving a car. If
    you plan on having more than one operator, waybills often work better
    since things are often timing dependent (have to pick up a car before
    others can be dropped onto the siding.)

    --
    Dale M. Arends


    Thank you Dale, for the quick response. How many industries do you
    have? My HO railroad is around the walls in a full footprint basement
    so it is fairly large. I have the ability to keep 7 operators busy,
    even though I am alone.



    When I said "small" I meant small. It's a 2 ft x 4 ft layout with 4
    industries and a team track. I don't think the size of the layout should
    be a factor; rather, the number of simultaneous jobs. Since a switch list
    is typically a series of sequential jobs, it works well for a single
    operator. With multiple operators, waybills work well since there can be several jobs being done at once while still having the occasional
    dependency.

    --
    Dale M. Arends

    Polls show that 6 of the 7 dwarfs are not Happy.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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  • From Frank Rosenbaum@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Fri Apr 24 16:32:58 2020
    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 1:35:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Rosenbaum wrote:
    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effort?

    Ok. I've downloaded the Model Railroad System for Win32 zip complete. I even installed it, I think. I am a technological nincompoop. There was no Icon on my desktop, It did not offer to open the program, and I could not find a .exe file to launch the
    program.

    What do I do?
    Please be very specific

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  • From Robert Heller@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Fri Apr 24 20:14:48 2020
    At Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Frank Rosenbaum <frankrosenbaum4@gmail.com> wrote:


    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 1:35:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Rosenbaum wrote:
    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your ra=
    ilroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you use o= ne over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effor= t?

    Ok. I've downloaded the Model Railroad System for Win32 zip complete. I eve= n installed it, I think. I am a technological nincompoop. There was no Icon=
    on my desktop, It did not offer to open the program, and I could not find = a .exe file to launch the program.=20

    If you ran the setup.exe program in the ZIP file it should have asked for a folder to install into. In that folder there will be a folder named bin. In this folder are a collection of .exe files. The Model Railroad System is not one single program, but a collection of programs in the bin folder and libraries in the lib folder [.dlls] and under the share folder [Tcl source libraries], with documentation also under the share folder. One of the .exe files in the bin folder is FCFMain.exe. This is the Freight Car Forwarder. There is also a program named FCFCreate.exe which is a program that will
    create a set of data files for the Freight Car Forwarder.

    Also in the complete Win32 zip file are a couple of sample data sets, ChesapeakeSystem.zip and LHandBS.zip, which you could have also installed. These two zip files each contain a complete set of datafiles for the Freight Car Forwarder, with the ChesapeakeSystem.zip file containing a sample dataset used by the original BASIC version and LHandBS.zip contains a simpler dataset for my railroad (not built yet).


    What do I do?
    Please be very specific


    --
    Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux, MS-Windows, and MacOSX heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

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  • From Frank Rosenbaum@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Fri Apr 24 18:36:51 2020
    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 1:35:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Rosenbaum wrote:
    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effort?

    Well, I got a response when I went to the bin folder.Is there a single file that will run the whole program?
    I have opened several of the files, but everything is grayed out and would not respond. When I opened FCFmain the only function I could do was open. Nothing else worked. I just tried to open a library and got Error: _40d09307_p_fcfSupport_System{Error
    readi...
    Here is the Log report:
    _40d09307_p_FCFSupport__System {Error reading C:\mrrsystem-2.1.44\bin\libttclasses.dll -- short file (TrainsFile)!}
    _40d09307_p_FCFSupport__System {Error reading C:\mrrsystem-2.1.44\bin\libttclasses.dll -- short file (TrainsFile)!}
    while executing
    "System TheSystem [file nativename "$fileName"] [MakeSeed]"
    (procedure "LoadSystem" line 11)
    invoked from within
    "LoadSystem"
    invoked from within
    ".main.topf.tb0.open invoke "
    invoked from within
    ".main.topf.tb0.open instate !disabled { .main.topf.tb0.open invoke } "
    invoked from within
    ".main.topf.tb0.open instate pressed { .main.topf.tb0.open state !pressed; .main.topf.tb0.open instate !disabled { .main.topf.tb0.open invoke } } "
    (command bound to event)

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  • From Robert Heller@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Fri Apr 24 21:55:54 2020
    At Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Frank Rosenbaum <frankrosenbaum4@gmail.com> wrote:


    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 1:35:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Rosenbaum wrote:
    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your ra=
    ilroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you use o= ne over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effor= t?

    Well, I got a response when I went to the bin folder.Is there a single file=
    that will run the whole program?

    There isn't *one* program, there are a collection of different programs that
    do different things. Some programs are "offline": Freight Car Forwarder and TimeTable. Some are helper utilites, like Resistor (computes load resistor values). Others are involved with actual operation (they interact with trains or accessories -- there is a throttle program for a Lenz XPressNet DCC system, and programs for OpenLCB/LCC). If you installed the Documentation archive, there will be a user manual in share/MRRSystem/Doc/UserManual/index.html (HTML format) and share/MRRSystem/Doc/UserManual.pdf (PDF format), which will document all of the exe files. There is also a Development archive, which contains documentation and things like C/C++ header files relating to the libraries.

    I have opened several of the files, but everything is grayed out and would not respond. When I opened FCFmain the only function I could do was open. N=

    That is correct. The FCFmain program needs a "data set" to work with. It can't actually do anything without data to work with. The data set is a batch of 8 data files containing information that describe your railroad (its divisions, stations, industuries and yards, trains, and cars). The data files are all actually just text files and you *could* create them with a text editor, like NotePad, but make sure that they are saved as plain 7-bit ASCII text files. Most of the data is actually formatted as comma separated data, so you
    possibly could create the files with Excel, but again be careful to be sure
    the files are saved as 7-bit ASCII text files. Also since the files are not really spreadsheet files, there might be some issues there. I've always used a plain text editor (MicroEMacs) to edit the files. The Freight Car Forwarder only re-writes the cars and stats files. The other files are only ever read in by the FCFmain program -- that is all other other files are static readonly data and are used by the Freight Car Forwarder in its processing to determine where cars can go and which trains can get them there.

    The FCFCreate program can be used to create these files (but FCFCreate is a little funcky and not well tested). There are some sample data sets available. The *original* one is in ChesapeakeSystem.zip -- this is the data set used by the original author of the original BASIC program. This is probably a good
    data set to work with to get a feel for how the program works. There is
    another one, LHandBS.zip which is for my (much smaller) railroad.

    The section of the User Manual for the Freight Car Forwarder has a section
    that documents the format of the datafiles.

    othing else worked. I just tried to open a library and got Error: _40d09307= _p_fcfSupport_System{Error readi...=20
    Here is the Log report:
    _40d09307_p_FCFSupport__System {Error reading C:\mrrsystem-2.1.44\bin\libtt= classes.dll -- short file (TrainsFile)!}
    _40d09307_p_FCFSupport__System {Error reading C:\mrrsystem-2.1.44\bin\libtt= classes.dll -- short file (TrainsFile)!}
    while executing
    "System TheSystem [file nativename "$fileName"] [MakeSeed]"
    (procedure "LoadSystem" line 11)
    invoked from within
    "LoadSystem"
    invoked from within
    ".main.topf.tb0.open invoke "
    invoked from within
    ".main.topf.tb0.open instate !disabled { .main.topf.tb0.open invoke } "
    invoked from within
    ".main.topf.tb0.open instate pressed { .main.topf.tb0.open state !pressed; = .main.topf.tb0.open instate !disabled { .main.topf.tb0.open invoke } } "
    (command bound to event)


    You can't actually *run* the library files. These .dll files are meant to be be linked to either C++ or loaded into Tcl programs.

    --
    Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux, MS-Windows, and MacOSX heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

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  • From Frank Rosenbaum@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Fri Apr 24 20:04:51 2020
    On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 8:36:52 PM UTC-5, Frank Rosenbaum wrote:
    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 1:35:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Rosenbaum wrote:
    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effort?

    Well, I got a response when I went to the bin folder.Is there a single file that will run the whole program?
    I have opened several of the files, but everything is grayed out and would not respond. When I opened FCFmain the only function I could do was open. Nothing else worked. I just tried to open a library and got Error: _40d09307_p_fcfSupport_System{Error
    readi...
    Here is the Log report:
    _40d09307_p_FCFSupport__System {Error reading C:\mrrsystem-2.1.44\bin\libttclasses.dll -- short file (TrainsFile)!}
    _40d09307_p_FCFSupport__System {Error reading C:\mrrsystem-2.1.44\bin\libttclasses.dll -- short file (TrainsFile)!}
    while executing
    "System TheSystem [file nativename "$fileName"] [MakeSeed]"
    (procedure "LoadSystem" line 11)
    invoked from within
    "LoadSystem"
    invoked from within
    ".main.topf.tb0.open invoke "
    invoked from within
    ".main.topf.tb0.open instate !disabled { .main.topf.tb0.open invoke } "
    invoked from within
    ".main.topf.tb0.open instate pressed { .main.topf.tb0.open state !pressed; .main.topf.tb0.open instate !disabled { .main.topf.tb0.open invoke } } "
    (command bound to event)

    With the explanations you are giving me, It seems much more complex than I can handle. I don't' think I am able to use the system. I am not adept enough to delve into the program.
    Thank you for your assistance.

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  • From Frank Rosenbaum@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Fri Apr 24 20:21:19 2020
    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 1:35:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Rosenbaum wrote:
    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effort?


    I am now trying to find someway to uninstall the program, and cannot find any way to do so. In Windows - settings - Apps/uninstall, the program does not show up so I can't choose it.
    What do I do?

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  • From Robert Heller@21:1/5 to Frank Rosenbaum on Sat Apr 25 08:03:39 2020
    At Fri, 24 Apr 2020 20:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Frank Rosenbaum <frankrosenbaum4@gmail.com> wrote:


    On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 1:35:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Rosenbaum wrote:
    I am setting up operations and would like to know, if you operate your railroad using switch lists or waybills, or nothing at all, and why you use one over the other. Both seem very labor intensive. Are they worth the effort?



    I am now trying to find someway to uninstall the program, and cannot find
    any way to do so. In Windows - settings - Apps/uninstall, the program does not show up so I can't choose it.
    What do I do?

    Just delete the folders and files.



    --
    Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software -- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux, MS-Windows, and MacOSX heller@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/

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