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  • Liu He Ba Fa

    From William Palminteri@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Jul 23 04:22:45 2018
    On Thursday, May 8, 2014 at 11:44:03 AM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    rocknrollkat@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 4, 1997 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Jim Keenan wrote:
    Mingsdad wrote:

    Is this a form of Hsing-I Chuan?

    No.

    Liu He Ba Fa is reported to be developed from Xin Yi Quan,
    Taijiquan, and Baguazhang. Liu He Ba Fa is sometimes called
    Hua Yue Xin Yi Liu He Ba Fa Quan.

    Confusion may arise through mistaking Xinyiquan (also
    called Liuhequan)for Xingyiquan. They are two separate arts.

    -- Jim Keenan

    Jim,
    Taiji is about 800 years old, Ba Gua is about 300 years old, only Xin Yi Quan
    dates back as far as Liu He Ba Fa, or about 1000 A.D., and that is open
    to debate.
    I was taught that Liu He Ba Fa predates all of these systems, and the dates bear this out.
    Why do people keep insisting that it is the other way around?

    Bill P.



    Give it up. It's 2014. Martial-arts has been reduced to leg-humping,
    juicing up, and pumping iron in the gym. Peter Dellys (a.k.a. GDS GreenDistantStar), an Aussie leg-humper, asks Fraser Johnston, another
    Aussie leg-humper, "Kata? What kata?".

    Luckily I'm studying with people who teach the original closed door systems. But yes, there are endless 'sifus' out there, homegrown 'experts' who took that 10 hour 'tai chi" class at their local high school's adult education program.
    Oh well....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From William Palminteri@21:1/5 to William Palminteri on Mon Jul 23 04:24:54 2018
    On Monday, July 23, 2018 at 7:18:42 AM UTC-4, William Palminteri wrote:
    On Thursday, May 8, 2014 at 5:41:53 PM UTC-4, Timo wrote:
    On Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:09:13 PM UTC+10, William Palminteri wrote:

    Taiji is about 800 years old,

    ... according to traditions that conflict with historical sources. According to internal oral history that doesn't have external evidence against it - oral history that isn't known to be crap - it, or the arts it derives from,, would be about 350
    years old. The theoretical side appears to have developed in the mid 1700s.

    Martial arts internal histories are riddled with myth, legend, propaganda and outright lies. Not something to accept uncritically.

    Okay then, what's the 'truth' according to you ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From William Palminteri@21:1/5 to Timo on Mon Jul 23 04:18:40 2018
    On Thursday, May 8, 2014 at 5:41:53 PM UTC-4, Timo wrote:
    On Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:09:13 PM UTC+10, William Palminteri wrote:

    Taiji is about 800 years old,

    ... according to traditions that conflict with historical sources. According to internal oral history that doesn't have external evidence against it - oral history that isn't known to be crap - it, or the arts it derives from,, would be about 350 years
    old. The theoretical side appears to have developed in the mid 1700s.

    Martial arts internal histories are riddled with myth, legend, propaganda and outright lies. Not something to accept uncritically.

    Okay then, what's the 'truth' according to you ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to William Palminteri on Wed Jul 25 23:24:36 2018
    William Palminteri wrote on 7/23/2018 7:22 AM:
    On Thursday, May 8, 2014 at 11:44:03 AM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    rocknrollkat@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 4, 1997 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Jim Keenan wrote:
    Mingsdad wrote:

    Is this a form of Hsing-I Chuan?

    No.

    Liu He Ba Fa is reported to be developed from Xin Yi Quan,
    Taijiquan, and Baguazhang. Liu He Ba Fa is sometimes called
    Hua Yue Xin Yi Liu He Ba Fa Quan.

    Confusion may arise through mistaking Xinyiquan (also
    called Liuhequan)for Xingyiquan. They are two separate arts.

    -- Jim Keenan

    Jim,
    Taiji is about 800 years old, Ba Gua is about 300 years old, only Xin Yi Quan
    dates back as far as Liu He Ba Fa, or about 1000 A.D., and that is open
    to debate.
    I was taught that Liu He Ba Fa predates all of these systems, and the dates bear this out.
    Why do people keep insisting that it is the other way around?

    Bill P.



    Give it up. It's 2014. Martial-arts has been reduced to leg-humping,
    juicing up, and pumping iron in the gym. Peter Dellys (a.k.a. GDS
    GreenDistantStar), an Aussie leg-humper, asks Fraser Johnston, another
    Aussie leg-humper, "Kata? What kata?".

    Luckily I'm studying with people who teach the original closed door systems. But yes, there are endless 'sifus' out there, homegrown 'experts' who took that 10 hour 'tai chi" class at their local high school's adult education program.
    Oh well....



    Most people you see doing Tai Chi in public parks learn the movements in
    the forms but don't know how to use the movements in fighting. They get
    only the health benefit of moving their limbs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)