On Monday, June 22, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Hunter Kid wrote:

I've been reading the thread in which some people are claiming that Grandmaster Sin The' is a fraud, and others are ardently defending
him.

Now, to be honest with you, I wouldn't care about this one way or the
other if I wasn't already into the Shaolin-Do system. I am currently
a green belt, about to test to brown, and planning to sign up for
another year of training. (I train in Atlanta, not under Sin The'
himself, but under Sifu Michael Reid, who in turn trains under Master
Gary Grooms. I assume those names, if anyone is familiar with them,
are reputable?) For the record, I have a first degree black belt in
Choi Kwang Do (which I quit some time ago), and scattered training in
Taiji Chuan (from the Shaolin-Do school), Hapkido, Ninjutsu, Kendo,
Tai Kwon Do, etc.

Okay, now let me be clear about this - the system seems very good.
And effective. The instructors at the two Atlanta schools (Marietta
and Norcross) are both very skilled fighters and martial artists. But
if the Grandmaster is a liar/fraud/disreputable fiend or whatever who everyone outside the Shaolin-Do system hates, that's definitely a
problem.

So here's what I want to know:

1. Is Grandmaster Sin Kwang The' a fraud?
2. If he is, in what way? Is he an unskilled martial artist, or does
he merely exaggerate his abilities? If he isn't, is he one of the
best?
3. Is the Shaolin-Do system reputable? (It seems to be effective.)

What I do *not* want in response is rantings from James Hall or
whatever his name is (the disgraced student of Sin The's) spewing vile slander about the Grandmaster. I would like some neutral opinions
from people in or not in the Shaolin-Do system, as long as they are
familiar with it and/or Sin The' himself.

A warm thanks in advance. ^_^

Hunter Kid
http://www.serve.com/guilds/ranma/
guilds@mail.serve.com

open hk.sig

"Why do I get the feeling," he rumbled to himself in a voice
that, if people who knew him had been asked, didn't sound
entirely like his own, "that this book is a crock?" Of course,
most 'books of magic' that one could buy on the common market
generally -were- crocks, so he wasn't entirely out of line in
assuming that this one was the same.
-from Brother, chapter 4
[hk.sig; errors-0; file terminating]

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I studied under grand master the in Lexington back in like 82 l, then master grooms in 89-91.
So assuming nothing had changed.
This system is in my opinion the most structured system, and has the most material.
I am comparing that to other systems I have looked at, or my son has gone too.

Ex. Each week you have a set things you are going to learn to achieve your next rank. So week one white belt you learn 5 of 10 sparing forms. Week two the 2nd half of the 10, week 3 5 of 10 short forms and so on.

Other systems seem less structured.

Now let's say grand master the never took one day of martial arts. To come up with a system with so much material... well my hat is off to him.

For someone like master grooms, who last time we talked was 6 or 7th black, and then finding out that everything past 5th is made up, might piss me off a bit.

But....

Every martial arts system is made up. The original concept came from a monk from India.

Also the ridge hand you learn as a white belt is the same ridge hand you are doing as a master. The only difference is you have thrown it 5+ more than that white belt.

So unless you are learning some system from ancient aliens you get out of it what you put in it.

Example: her in Atlanta we had that American karate guy, I'm sure if you took his style for over 5 years you would be able to defend yourself. Just the amount of material might be less than grand master the.

So at the end if the day, with grand master the's system you will get years of new material, hard, soft, weapon and internal styles. All with a structure to it.

Once you get to 6th degree, if you think his own forms are crap then just work on everything fro 5th black down.

If you get in a fight you will never use a fraction of that anyway, and if you are a 5th black the fight will be over after 2 maybe 3 hits.

I guess I do not have issue with grand master the making up material past 5th black, because all of them do. Bruce Lee made an entire system up, no one bashes him. Now he claimed it has his own, so I guess that's the line, but from my understanding white
to 5th black is original so I guess cut the guy some slack and give some props for bringing a good system to the table.

But I don't have alot invested in it.

But master grooms was an awesome teacher. If he was still here in Atlanta I would be taking instruction from him.

Master Reeds school is too far for me.

And the Norcross location is just a pain from where I live.

Anyway short answer is if it was close by I would be taking it, vs something else.


But if you just want to learn to fight anything will work.

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On Wednesday, June 24, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Erik Harris wrote:

In article <1998062306103300.CAA04307@ladder03.news.aol.com>, lexwldcat@aol.com (LexWldcat) wrote:

statement. If I am wrong on this, and the travelling shaolin monks would truly
make horrible fighters, I hope someone would please let me know.

Well.... You were lied to on many occasions, apparently, but this is more truth than lie. What the traveling Shaolin monks do is NOT martial arts. It's basically dance that is based loosely on martial arts. Many of them may have also trained in martial arts, and as such, can fight extremely well.. Also, even though Contemporary Wushu is pretty poor and inefficient as far as martial arts go, as you pointed out, these people are EXTREMELY skilled athletes, and when you get good enough, even something that's poorly made and inefficient can work for you against a considerably less skilled opponent.

In other words, what the "traveling Shaolin monks" demonstrate is not martial art, but performing art. What their actual abilities consist of is another matter entirely.

Erik Harris esh7@cornell.edu
http://w3.to/erik/ ICQ: 2610172
ftp://esh7.resnet.cornell.edu

To avoid unsolicited mail, my address at the top is INCORRECT. Please be sure
to use -=>esh7@cornell.edu<=- to reply in email, without the underscore.

Yeah, it looks like some of the big dust-up is someone thinks Sin The is saying, "hi, I teach like the Taiji Chuan masters the way that you think I should." That's an odd indictment.

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If Sin The' was this incredible grandmaster of

the greatest collection of martial arts knowledge ever accumulated (including the secret arts of the death touch and liu fu tao) with mastery of 980 forms, and he was every bit of his claims, dont you think there would be someone, somewhere, out there, (outside of the system of shaolin-do) that would have a good thing to say about him and his knowledge? It has never happened in the two+ years I have surfed the net, not once! And I have actually tried to find
good things to be said about him. Like someone else said in an earlier post (I
forget who, I apologize) when chinese masters are posed the question of Sin The' and his claims, they diplomatically decline comment (or something to that
effect). And that, in case you were wondering, is not a good thing.

This is our Western interpretation, which amounts to hitting your head after you're punched. This video shows a man being killed with one punch and so 'we' go with that (but this is not One "Punch" Kill; this is "hit your head, after being duked") https:/
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMTcGjQ3Cso

Hollywood decided to go with a 5-point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL7nLSSSWjw

Sin The discussed One Punch Kill with us. This is it.
His word was Napoli, to my knowledge.
एक पंच हत्या Ēka pan̄ca hatyā.
That is what it sounded most like, for "One Punch Kill".
THIS IS THE ONE PUNCH KILL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m59Ayt3sUN0

This is wiki about the Chinese version. It can be a 'delayed' death. You know if someone screws up your kindy with a tylone-type death grip, it is not a good way to live through the week.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_of_Death

Dim mak is depicted as a secret body of knowledge with techniques that attack pressure points and meridians, said to incapacitate or sometimes cause immediate or even delayed death to an opponent. Little scientific or historical evidence exists for the
existence of a martial arts "touch of death", although it has been confirmed that trauma may cause disproportionately catastrophic consequences when applied to known pressure points under specific circumstances.[1] Commotio cordis, for example, is an
often lethal disruption of heart rhythm that occurs as a result of a blow to the area directly over the heart (the precordial region), at a critical time during the cycle of a heart beat causing cardiac arrest.

The concept known as vibrating palm originates with the Chinese martial arts Neijing ("internal") energy techniques that deal with the qi energy and the type of force (jin) used. It is depicted as "a technique that is part psychic and part vibratory,
this energy is then focused into a wave".[2]

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Master Jim Mooney has a son and a son in law named Jamie. Both are well trained.Son Jamie does the kata you’re referring too. It’s nothing short of perfect

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Master James Mooney is one of the best teacher's period. Whether sin the misrepresented himself is irrelevant. If you got trained from the 90's well into millennia. Then you probably got the best if shaolin do. I know all these people and Jim Mooney is
on of a kind person and teacher. Back in 90'd our dusty little warehouse training was fight fight club. Jamie and Robert Perry taking on whole class at once medium contact throws n sweeps were on a nasty old concrete floor. It was best. Imo wva shaolin
do in the old days was one of kind.

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