Hello martial arists,
I would be interested in your opinion about which is the best martial
art?
Best regards,
Daniel
D wrote on 3/12/2024 5:01 AM:
Hello martial arists,
I would be interested in your opinion about which is the best martial art? >>
Best regards,
Daniel
I suggest Wing Chun (or Wing Tsun) kung fu. It is very practical, especially for close-quarter combat. Wing Chun is famous for its "Chi Sao" drills (sticky hand drills) and Wooden Dummy training tool.
Wing Chun Chi Sao (sticky hand) drill https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+Chi+Sao+%28sticky+hand%29+drill
Wing Chun Wooden Dummy drills https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+Wooden+Dummy+drills
Wing Chun "Siu Nim Tao" - first form https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Siu+Nim+Tao%22+-+first+form
Wing Chun "Chum Kiu" - second form https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Chum+Kiu%22+-+second+form
Wing Chun "Biu Jee" - third form https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Biu+Jee%22+-+third+form
Regards,
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, =?UTF-8?B?8J+YjiBNaWdodHkgV2FubmFiZSDinIU=?= wrote:
D wrote on 3/12/2024 5:01 AM:
Hello martial arists,
I would be interested in your opinion about which is the best
martial art?
Best regards,
Daniel
I suggest Wing Chun (or Wing Tsun) kung fu. It is very practical,
especially for close-quarter combat. Wing Chun is famous for its "Chi
Sao" drills (sticky hand drills) and Wooden Dummy training tool.
Wing Chun Chi Sao (sticky hand) drill
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+Chi+Sao+%28sticky+hand%29+drill
Wing Chun Wooden Dummy drills
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+Wooden+Dummy+drills >>
Wing Chun "Siu Nim Tao" - first form
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Siu+Nim+Tao%22+-+first+form
Wing Chun "Chum Kiu" - second form
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Chum+Kiu%22+-+second+form
Wing Chun "Biu Jee" - third form
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Biu+Jee%22+-+third+form
Regards,
Wow, an answer! Have you practiced it yourself? What do you think
about western boxing?
D wrote on 4/8/2024 5:11 PM:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, =?UTF-8?B?8J+YjiBNaWdodHkgV2FubmFiZSDinIU=?= wrote:
D wrote on 3/12/2024 5:01 AM:
Hello martial arists,
I would be interested in your opinion about which is the best martial
art?
Best regards,
Daniel
I suggest Wing Chun (or Wing Tsun) kung fu. It is very practical,
especially for close-quarter combat. Wing Chun is famous for its "Chi Sao" >>> drills (sticky hand drills) and Wooden Dummy training tool.
Wing Chun Chi Sao (sticky hand) drill
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+Chi+Sao+%28sticky+hand%29+drill
Wing Chun Wooden Dummy drills
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+Wooden+Dummy+drills >>>
Wing Chun "Siu Nim Tao" - first form
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Siu+Nim+Tao%22+-+first+form
Wing Chun "Chum Kiu" - second form
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Chum+Kiu%22+-+second+form
Wing Chun "Biu Jee" - third form
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Biu+Jee%22+-+third+form
Regards,
Wow, an answer! Have you practiced it yourself? What do you think about
western boxing?
Twenty years ago I went crazy and decidedly to learn martial arts. I learned Wing Chun for four years. During those four years, I also learned Judo, BJJ, and Muay Thai. In my childhood I already learned Karate and Kung Fu.
I did not learn western boxing, but I think Muay Thai's hand techniques are very much the same as western boxing. Muay Thai allows kicking, elbowing, kneeing, and grappling, which are not allowed in western boxing.
Muay Thai will beat the crap out of western boxing. If the Muay Thai kicking didn't get you, the Muay Thai elbows and knees will.
I spent most of those four year on learning Wing Chun. The other martial arts I have listed above were about 6 months duration each, done concurrently with my Wing Chun training.
My takeaway from Judo was the proper way to fall without breaking my neck or wrist. My takeaway from BJJ was how to squirm out from someone big and strong pinning me down. My takeaway from Muay Thai was how to generate a powerful kick.
Wing Chun is the most useful in close-quarter fighting, in my opinion. Their "sticky hand" drills are the essence of their fighting technique. During that simply drill, you learn to feel your opponent's forces just from entangling your arms with your opponent's arms. Eventually you can fight by the tactile feeling of your arms, without looking at the opponent. I still can do that, even without going to classes to practise with another person. I am sure I can beat the crap out of anybody my size or reasonably bigger in close-quarter fights.
I have bought a wooden dummy so I can practise some of the techniques at home. There are lots of Wing Chun videos on YouTube. I think if you go to a decent Wing Chun school to learn the basics for one year, you can pretty well learn the rest from YouTube videos. When you go to Wing Chun school, try to make some friends there so that you can practise with them at home after you quit the school. Or, you teach your wife, girlfriend, son, daughter to practise "Chi Sao" drill (sticky hand) with you.
The three Wing Chun forms ("forms" are called "kata" in Karate) are the important techniques condensed into a sequence of movements. Many Wing Chun experts have decoded those secret hand movements and uploaded them as YouTube videos.
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, =?UTF-8?B?8J+YjiBNaWdodHkgV2FubmFiZSDinIU=?= wrote:
D wrote on 4/8/2024 5:11 PM:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, =?UTF-8?B?8J+YjiBNaWdodHkgV2FubmFiZSDinIU=?= wrote:
D wrote on 3/12/2024 5:01 AM:
Hello martial arists,
I would be interested in your opinion about which is the best
martial art?
Best regards,
Daniel
I suggest Wing Chun (or Wing Tsun) kung fu. It is very practical,
especially for close-quarter combat. Wing Chun is famous for its
"Chi Sao" drills (sticky hand drills) and Wooden Dummy training tool.
Wing Chun Chi Sao (sticky hand) drill
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+Chi+Sao+%28sticky+hand%29+drill
Wing Chun Wooden Dummy drills
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+Wooden+Dummy+drills >>>>
Wing Chun "Siu Nim Tao" - first form
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Siu+Nim+Tao%22+-+first+form
Wing Chun "Chum Kiu" - second form
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Chum+Kiu%22+-+second+form
Wing Chun "Biu Jee" - third form
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wing+Chun+%22Biu+Jee%22+-+third+form
Regards,
Wow, an answer! Have you practiced it yourself? What do you think
about western boxing?
Twenty years ago I went crazy and decidedly to learn martial arts. I
learned Wing Chun for four years. During those four years, I also
learned Judo, BJJ, and Muay Thai. In my childhood I already learned
Karate and Kung Fu.
Wow, wasn't it confusing learning it in parallell?
I did not learn western boxing, but I think Muay Thai's hand
techniques are very much the same as western boxing. Muay Thai allows
kicking, elbowing, kneeing, and grappling, which are not allowed in
western boxing.
I think MT was inspired and incorporated western boxing techniques and
to some extent western boxing training techniques.
If that is true (I don't know, I have just heard it) I find it an
amazing mix of east and west that resulted in a very good,
no-nonsense, system.
Muay Thai will beat the crap out of western boxing. If the Muay Thai
kicking didn't get you, the Muay Thai elbows and knees will.
True. I think a match between MT and Western boxing would come down to
if the boxing guy would be able to get in the first punch and stay on
the inside for a quick knock out. If not, as you say, the MT guy can
just chop him down from the outside.
But, what's interesting is that there's also "unofficial" boxing that
is not part of the official rules, but that is practiced here and
there in gyms, that does involved more use of the head and elbows, as
well as the excellent technique of stepping/stamping on feet to get
the other guy off rhythm. In terms of head it is not head butts per
se, but more a kind of protecting with the top of the head and should
the opponents head be there if you happen to step in by mistake, so be
it. I trained boxing for 3 years or so, these were dirty techniques
that you saw from time to time.
I spent most of those four year on learning Wing Chun. The other
martial arts I have listed above were about 6 months duration each,
done concurrently with my Wing Chun training.
My takeaway from Judo was the proper way to fall without breaking my
neck or wrist. My takeaway from BJJ was how to squirm out from
someone big and strong pinning me down. My takeaway from Muay Thai
was how to generate a powerful kick.
Wing Chun is the most useful in close-quarter fighting, in my
opinion. Their "sticky hand" drills are the essence of their fighting
technique. During that simply drill, you learn to feel your
opponent's forces just from entangling your arms with your opponent's
arms. Eventually you can fight by the tactile feeling of your arms,
without looking at the opponent. I still can do that, even without
going to classes to practise with another person. I am sure I can
beat the crap out of anybody my size or reasonably bigger in
close-quarter fights.
Did you ever train or study White crane? I've heard that there is a
theory that wing chun is related to White crane, and also, it seems
like white crane is the grandfather of karate as well.
I have bought a wooden dummy so I can practise some of the techniques
at home. There are lots of Wing Chun videos on YouTube. I think if
you go to a decent Wing Chun school to learn the basics for one year,
you can pretty well learn the rest from YouTube videos. When you go
to Wing Chun school, try to make some friends there so that you can
practise with them at home after you quit the school. Or, you teach
your wife, girlfriend, son, daughter to practise "Chi Sao" drill
(sticky hand) with you.
The three Wing Chun forms ("forms" are called "kata" in Karate) are
the important techniques condensed into a sequence of movements. Many
Wing Chun experts have decoded those secret hand movements and
uploaded them as YouTube videos.
Speaking of effectiveness, once in my life I used boxing to defend
myself against a crazy afghan on a bus. But the defense was not what
you might think it was. ;) The defense consisted in my acquired
ability to take
a punch without blinking. This rogue hit me in the face and was used
to regular office workers apologizing and sitting down in silence. He
was very surprised when instead, I fell back into my guard and
prepared to launch a 1-2 should he get close enough. But I was lucky,
because he had a friend on the bus, and he realized that this was not
going to end well for one of the participants, so he jumped in between
and dragged his friend off the bus.
It left me kind of confused. On the one hand, I felt that it would
have been nice to get that 1-2. On the other hand, who knows, the guy
could have carried a knife, his friend could have joined him in 2
against 1, so on the balance, I was pretty pleased that the fight
ended without any serious harm, and that he hopefully learned the
lesson that sometimes, people don't sit down and apologize but get
ready to fight back. ;)
True. I think a match between MT and Western boxing would come down to if
the boxing guy would be able to get in the first punch and stay on the
inside for a quick knock out. If not, as you say, the MT guy can just chop >> him down from the outside.
Don't forget Muay Thai is trained in elbow and knee techniques. Western boxing guy will definitely lose to Muay Thai guy if they belong to the same weight class.
But, what's interesting is that there's also "unofficial" boxing that is
not part of the official rules, but that is practiced here and there in
gyms, that does involved more use of the head and elbows, as well as the
excellent technique of stepping/stamping on feet to get the other guy off
rhythm. In terms of head it is not head butts per se, but more a kind of
protecting with the top of the head and should the opponents head be there >> if you happen to step in by mistake, so be it. I trained boxing for 3 years >> or so, these were dirty techniques that you saw from time to time.
Muay Thai elbows are lethal. Elbow strike can easily crack a skull. Muay Thai and Wing Chun use elbow strikes a lot.
I know what you are talking about. I learned Muay Thai. Muay Thai hand techniques are similar to western boxing. Muay Thai stance is also similar to western boxing. Muay Thai fighters also shield their faces with their fists, just like western boxing.
Western boxing fighting stance is only good if the other guy is also using western boxing stance. Western boxer leans forward and sticks the head out.
That will be fatal if you fight with a Wing Chun guy. A Wing Chun fighter always leans back, with the body weight on the back foot. That means the boxing guy's fists cannot reach the head of the Wing Chun guy, but the Wing Chun guy's fists can easily reach the head of the boxing guy.
True. I think a match between MT and Western boxing would come down
to if the boxing guy would be able to get in the first punch and
stay on the inside for a quick knock out. If not, as you say, the MT
guy can just chop him down from the outside.
Don't forget Muay Thai is trained in elbow and knee techniques.
Western boxing guy will definitely lose to Muay Thai guy if they
belong to the same weight class.
You should also add equal skill.
But, what's interesting is that there's also "unofficial" boxing
that is not part of the official rules, but that is practiced here
and there in gyms, that does involved more use of the head and
elbows, as well as the excellent technique of stepping/stamping on
feet to get the other guy off rhythm. In terms of head it is not
head butts per se, but more a kind of protecting with the top of the
head and should the opponents head be there if you happen to step in
by mistake, so be it. I trained boxing for 3 years or so, these were
dirty techniques that you saw from time to time.
Muay Thai elbows are lethal. Elbow strike can easily crack a skull.
Muay Thai and Wing Chun use elbow strikes a lot.
True, but they have bad reach compare with a punch or a kick.
I know what you are talking about. I learned Muay Thai. Muay Thai
hand techniques are similar to western boxing. Muay Thai stance is
also similar to western boxing. Muay Thai fighters also shield their
faces with their fists, just like western boxing.
Do note, but I am sure you already know, that western boxing does not
only shield with the fists. They shield with fists, arms, elbows,
shoulders as well as evation and side stepping. In terms of arts that
both punch and kick, this can be a bit of a weakness, since you're not
as mobile when you also try to kick and not as stable as well. In fact, something that works very well from a boxing point of view, is to time
the punch so that you hit when the opponent tries to kick. Then it is
easy to knock down an opponent.
Western boxing fighting stance is only good if the other guy is also
using western boxing stance. Western boxer leans forward and sticks
the head out.
Ouch, never do that in boxing. I was taught that was one of the worst
things you can do as a boxer, since you tend to be off balance. Never,
ever lean forward, very dangerous!
That will be fatal if you fight with a Wing Chun guy. A Wing Chun
fighter always leans back, with the body weight on the back foot.
That means the boxing guy's fists cannot reach the head of the Wing
Chun guy, but the Wing Chun guy's fists can easily reach the head of
the boxing guy.
That is incorrect. In boxing the weight is also towards the back, and
judging distance is one of the most important skills in boxing. You see,
many people who have never trained in boxing seriously, think it's only
about punching but nothing could be further from the truth. It is
actually a quite subtle art, and a living one as well, where different trainers have different philosophies and styles that are currently
evolving.
D wrote on 4/9/2024 8:30 AM:
True. I think a match between MT and Western boxing would come down to if >>>> the boxing guy would be able to get in the first punch and stay on the >>>> inside for a quick knock out. If not, as you say, the MT guy can just
chop him down from the outside.
Don't forget Muay Thai is trained in elbow and knee techniques. Western
boxing guy will definitely lose to Muay Thai guy if they belong to the
same weight class.
You should also add equal skill.
But, what's interesting is that there's also "unofficial" boxing that is >>>> not part of the official rules, but that is practiced here and there in >>>> gyms, that does involved more use of the head and elbows, as well as the >>>> excellent technique of stepping/stamping on feet to get the other guy off >>>> rhythm. In terms of head it is not head butts per se, but more a kind of >>>> protecting with the top of the head and should the opponents head be
there if you happen to step in by mistake, so be it. I trained boxing for >>>> 3 years or so, these were dirty techniques that you saw from time to
time.
Muay Thai elbows are lethal. Elbow strike can easily crack a skull. Muay >>> Thai and Wing Chun use elbow strikes a lot.
True, but they have bad reach compare with a punch or a kick.
I know what you are talking about. I learned Muay Thai. Muay Thai hand
techniques are similar to western boxing. Muay Thai stance is also similar >>> to western boxing. Muay Thai fighters also shield their faces with their >>> fists, just like western boxing.
Do note, but I am sure you already know, that western boxing does not
only shield with the fists. They shield with fists, arms, elbows,
shoulders as well as evation and side stepping. In terms of arts that
both punch and kick, this can be a bit of a weakness, since you're not
as mobile when you also try to kick and not as stable as well. In fact,
something that works very well from a boxing point of view, is to time
the punch so that you hit when the opponent tries to kick. Then it is
easy to knock down an opponent.
Western boxing fighting stance is only good if the other guy is also using >>> western boxing stance. Western boxer leans forward and sticks the head
out.
Ouch, never do that in boxing. I was taught that was one of the worst
things you can do as a boxer, since you tend to be off balance. Never,
ever lean forward, very dangerous!
That will be fatal if you fight with a Wing Chun guy. A Wing Chun fighter >>> always leans back, with the body weight on the back foot. That means the >>> boxing guy's fists cannot reach the head of the Wing Chun guy, but the
Wing Chun guy's fists can easily reach the head of the boxing guy.
That is incorrect. In boxing the weight is also towards the back, and
judging distance is one of the most important skills in boxing. You see,
many people who have never trained in boxing seriously, think it's only
about punching but nothing could be further from the truth. It is
actually a quite subtle art, and a living one as well, where different
trainers have different philosophies and styles that are currently
evolving.
What you have described is not the reality of the stance of boxers, as demonstrated in the boxing match below. Boxers lean forward, bow their heads and shield their heads with their raised arms. If a boxer is standing with one leg forward, then the body weight is mostly on the front leg.
Boxers lean forward and bow their heads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6MYhU97MSY
On Tue, 9 Apr 2024, =?UTF-8?B?8J+YjiBNaWdodHkgV2FubmFiZSDinIU=?= wrote:
D wrote on 4/9/2024 8:30 AM:
True. I think a match between MT and Western boxing would come
down to if the boxing guy would be able to get in the first punch
and stay on the inside for a quick knock out. If not, as you say,
the MT guy can just chop him down from the outside.
Don't forget Muay Thai is trained in elbow and knee techniques.
Western boxing guy will definitely lose to Muay Thai guy if they
belong to the same weight class.
You should also add equal skill.
But, what's interesting is that there's also "unofficial" boxing
that is not part of the official rules, but that is practiced here
and there in gyms, that does involved more use of the head and
elbows, as well as the excellent technique of stepping/stamping on
feet to get the other guy off rhythm. In terms of head it is not
head butts per se, but more a kind of protecting with the top of
the head and should the opponents head be there if you happen to
step in by mistake, so be it. I trained boxing for 3 years or so,
these were dirty techniques that you saw from time to time.
Muay Thai elbows are lethal. Elbow strike can easily crack a skull.
Muay Thai and Wing Chun use elbow strikes a lot.
True, but they have bad reach compare with a punch or a kick.
I know what you are talking about. I learned Muay Thai. Muay Thai
hand techniques are similar to western boxing. Muay Thai stance is
also similar to western boxing. Muay Thai fighters also shield
their faces with their fists, just like western boxing.
Do note, but I am sure you already know, that western boxing does not
only shield with the fists. They shield with fists, arms, elbows,
shoulders as well as evation and side stepping. In terms of arts that
both punch and kick, this can be a bit of a weakness, since you're not
as mobile when you also try to kick and not as stable as well. In fact,
something that works very well from a boxing point of view, is to time
the punch so that you hit when the opponent tries to kick. Then it is
easy to knock down an opponent.
Western boxing fighting stance is only good if the other guy is
also using western boxing stance. Western boxer leans forward and
sticks the head out.
Ouch, never do that in boxing. I was taught that was one of the worst
things you can do as a boxer, since you tend to be off balance. Never,
ever lean forward, very dangerous!
That will be fatal if you fight with a Wing Chun guy. A Wing Chun
fighter always leans back, with the body weight on the back foot.
That means the boxing guy's fists cannot reach the head of the Wing
Chun guy, but the Wing Chun guy's fists can easily reach the head
of the boxing guy.
That is incorrect. In boxing the weight is also towards the back, and
judging distance is one of the most important skills in boxing. You
see,
many people who have never trained in boxing seriously, think it's only
about punching but nothing could be further from the truth. It is
actually a quite subtle art, and a living one as well, where different
trainers have different philosophies and styles that are currently
evolving.
What you have described is not the reality of the stance of boxers,
as demonstrated in the boxing match below. Boxers lean forward, bow
their heads and shield their heads with their raised arms. If a boxer
is standing with one leg forward, then the body weight is mostly on
the front leg.
Incorrect.
Boxers lean forward and bow their heads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6MYhU97MSY
I could show you videos from professional fights, but I have lost all interest in this conversation so I won't.
D wrote on 4/9/2024 12:12 PM:
On Tue, 9 Apr 2024, =?UTF-8?B?8J+YjiBNaWdodHkgV2FubmFiZSDinIU=?= wrote:
D wrote on 4/9/2024 8:30 AM:
True. I think a match between MT and Western boxing would come down to >>>>>> if the boxing guy would be able to get in the first punch and stay on >>>>>> the inside for a quick knock out. If not, as you say, the MT guy can >>>>>> just chop him down from the outside.
Don't forget Muay Thai is trained in elbow and knee techniques. Western >>>>> boxing guy will definitely lose to Muay Thai guy if they belong to the >>>>> same weight class.
You should also add equal skill.
But, what's interesting is that there's also "unofficial" boxing that >>>>>> is not part of the official rules, but that is practiced here and there >>>>>> in gyms, that does involved more use of the head and elbows, as well as >>>>>> the excellent technique of stepping/stamping on feet to get the other >>>>>> guy off rhythm. In terms of head it is not head butts per se, but more >>>>>> a kind of protecting with the top of the head and should the opponents >>>>>> head be there if you happen to step in by mistake, so be it. I trained >>>>>> boxing for 3 years or so, these were dirty techniques that you saw from >>>>>> time to time.
Muay Thai elbows are lethal. Elbow strike can easily crack a skull. Muay >>>>> Thai and Wing Chun use elbow strikes a lot.
True, but they have bad reach compare with a punch or a kick.
I know what you are talking about. I learned Muay Thai. Muay Thai hand >>>>> techniques are similar to western boxing. Muay Thai stance is also
similar to western boxing. Muay Thai fighters also shield their faces >>>>> with their fists, just like western boxing.
Do note, but I am sure you already know, that western boxing does not
only shield with the fists. They shield with fists, arms, elbows,
shoulders as well as evation and side stepping. In terms of arts that
both punch and kick, this can be a bit of a weakness, since you're not >>>> as mobile when you also try to kick and not as stable as well. In fact, >>>> something that works very well from a boxing point of view, is to time >>>> the punch so that you hit when the opponent tries to kick. Then it is
easy to knock down an opponent.
Western boxing fighting stance is only good if the other guy is also >>>>> using western boxing stance. Western boxer leans forward and sticks the >>>>> head out.
Ouch, never do that in boxing. I was taught that was one of the worst
things you can do as a boxer, since you tend to be off balance. Never, >>>> ever lean forward, very dangerous!
That will be fatal if you fight with a Wing Chun guy. A Wing Chun
fighter always leans back, with the body weight on the back foot. That >>>>> means the boxing guy's fists cannot reach the head of the Wing Chun guy, >>>>> but the Wing Chun guy's fists can easily reach the head of the boxing >>>>> guy.
That is incorrect. In boxing the weight is also towards the back, and
judging distance is one of the most important skills in boxing. You see, >>>> many people who have never trained in boxing seriously, think it's only >>>> about punching but nothing could be further from the truth. It is
actually a quite subtle art, and a living one as well, where different >>>> trainers have different philosophies and styles that are currently
evolving.
What you have described is not the reality of the stance of boxers, as
demonstrated in the boxing match below. Boxers lean forward, bow their
heads and shield their heads with their raised arms. If a boxer is
standing with one leg forward, then the body weight is mostly on the front >>> leg.
Incorrect.
Just because you say so?
Boxers lean forward and bow their heads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6MYhU97MSY
I could show you videos from professional fights, but I have lost all
interest in this conversation so I won't.
Why don't you?
You don't have basic training in any martial arts, including boxing. I am wasting my time on a shit talker.
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