On Tuesday, June 6, 2006 at 9:14:39 PM UTC-4, Mike Sigman wrote:

<yoko....@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1149567585.9...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Mike Sigman wrote:

OK, so old jujutsu may have been influenced by Chinese fighting
styles, that sounds quite reasonable. If you want to go with that, I
wouldn't want to argue with you.

But Judo was a new thing, strikingly different from all jujutsu ryu
before it. The other schools lost students in droves, most of them
folded or drastically remodeled as the superiority of Judo training
methods became apparent. The dates & sources of addition &
subtraction of various different elements in Judo is pretty well
documented.

Unless of course the SJ-conspiracy theory is right, and stranger
things are true, I'm sure. So what similarities do you find between
SJ and Judo?

Charlie, look at that video again. Notice how much it looks "just like
judo".

just watched it for the first time, looks neat!

That same shuai jiao uniform has been around so long (well, not all
the red-piping and trim, I think, but the main uniform, etc.) that it's
found in ancient paintings, etc., from a thousand and more years ago.
Kano
gathered up stuff from various ju-jitsu schools, but it looks like he
also
knew what shuai jiao looked like, too, or they wouldn't look so much
alike

Appearance in a demo is one thing, but how about the typical training routine? Can you describe what would happen in a session, how much
time spent on different areas, etc?

(the only big difference is that shuai jiao doesn't slap the mat on
falls...
they cradle the head... and there are ten-times as many techniques,
strikes,
etc., in shuai jiao).

What do you think shuai jiao does well, and what does it do poorly --
ie. pros & cons of the style?

I think *good* judo and *good* sport shuai jiao are close enough that it doesn't matter. The difference is that shuai jiao has developed over the centuries into specialized sects and some of them are very clever, combat-oriented arts. Other than that, I don't pretend to have any
expertise in shuai jiao. My comment was more that it's pretty obvious that judo borrowed, to a fair extent, from shuai jiao... but so what? I was just saying it was silly to pretend that there was no influence... particularly in light of the fact that the throws are systematized into the same groups, locks, etc., in both arts. The occasional coincidence with "native Americans" has nothing to do with the systemizations.
;^)
Mike

Thread necro...but you are(were) so full of shit here it needs to be pointed out explicitly.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE whatsoever that Judo borrowed anything from Shuai Chiao(especially considering that not only does Judo has a much better execution of technique and pretty much resembles the two JUJUTSU ryu and a bit of Western Wrestling
that Kano derived Judo from)...in fact the available evidence suggests that Shuai Chiao as it currently exists is an imitation of Judo Te-Waza.....and a very poor one at that.

Native Japanese martial arts evolved on an island populated by a war-like culture...that was more separated by hundreds of miles of open ocean from a continent that they were often at odds with. There is a reason why Japanese martial arts for the most
part do not at al resemble Chinese Martial Arts or philosophy. You don't know what you are talking about. Stop.

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