On the fiftieth birthday of the greatest living technical juggler, now
retired, namely Anthony Commarota, AKA Anthony Gatto, and three days
after the broadcast and publication on YouTube of the first live
edition for the United Kingdom of the Numbers Juggling League, it seems
the right time to raise some questions about the regulation of this
type of competitions.

I don't understand why both the IJA regulation and the NJL regulation
foresee a logic similar to that of the high jump, for which the winner
for each of the categories up for grabs (balls, clubs and rings are
those present in both competitions) is the one who manages to make more
catches with the highest number of props.

If the same logic were applied, for example, to athletics, whoever did
the best time in the 400 meters race should be the winner over the best
time in the 100 meters race. But evidently the technique and the
progression of the 100 meters is quite different from the technique and
the progression of the 400 meters. Just as the 8 ball technique is
completely different from the 11 ball technique, and with the 8 ball
you can still afford to use normal beanbags and not the underfilled and somewhat shapeless ones needed for the 11 ball start. In short,
something very different from jumping with the ventral technique or
with the Fosbury flop.

Why not have a separate competition for each number of props? Using the
logic of the high jump, the WJF now starts its competitions directly
from the 9 balls, skipping the 8 balls even if it remains a specialty
for excellent jugglers only. Certainly the fact that many jugglers skip
the 8 balls to focus their trainings on 9 balls, having trained much
more with the 7 than the 6 balls, played a part in this choice.

With current logic, a juggler who succeeded in the epic result of
making 100 catches with 10 balls would lose if another juggler managed
to catch 11 balls 22 times: does all of this sound good to you?

Thanks so much to Eivind Dragsjø and Tom Whitfield for what they are
doing to spread the culture of playfully competitive juggling with
large amounts of props 😊, and I really hope they will reflect a bit on
the incongruities of such an approach.

Enjoy juggling!

--
As the ancient Romans wished: «Ad multos annos, Antoni!»

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Eivind has replied on «Juggling Home» Facebook group [1]:

I don’t think you quite understand the rules of NJL.
It is very possible that someone that does really good with 8,
9 and 10, but doesn’t flash 11 can win against someone who does.

But it remains probable that someone who knows how to make at least 4
catches with 10, 11 and 12 balls wins over someone who knows how to
make a qualification with 8 balls.
Let's assume that:
- juggler A juggles 8 balls for 16 catches
- the best juggler in that category, let's call him juggler B,
achieves 100 catches.
Juggler A earned 1.6 points.
Juggler B then manages to achieve 50 catches with 9, and flash 10, 11
and 12 balls, winning those competitions.
Juggler C enter the competition with 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 balls while
not being able to flash 9 or more balls.
If juggler C manages to flash 8 balls and to get 4 catches with 9,
10, 11 and 12 balls he will get:
10×8/100 + 10×4×0,5/50 + 10×4×0,5/10 + 10×4×0,5/11 + 10×4×0,5/12 =
= 6.7 points.

Is it correct to consider a juggler who gets 4 catches with 10, 11
and 12 balls 4 times more well rounded than one who qualifies 8
balls?

But in order to attempt those higher numbers you have to show
that you can flash n-1 objects.

Reading the regulation it seems that this typical championship rule
(normally limited to qualifications, as in the IJA and in the WJF) is
not binding, because you write:
«Traditionally in a numbers juggling competition, participants would
have to achieve at least of a qualify (2n catches of n objects) or at
least a flash (n catches of n objects) to enter. In this competition,
we are making a change to this! If you release all objects in an
allowed pattern and catch at least the first 4 objects, you can enter
the competition».
https://juggling-records.com/numbers_league_about

And therefore it is possible to participate in the competition with
n+1, n+2... objects if only at least one of the other jugglers
manages to flash those quantities and the aspiring participant
manages to make at least 4 catches with those quantities in a decent
way (voluntarily throwing all the objects in a coordinated manner).

If however that classical rule still applies, and therefore
participation in the competition with n+1, n+2... objects is
precluded if at least one flash with n, n+1... objects has not been
achieved before by the juggler then my fear is unfounded and my
numerical example above is incorrect. If it is the case the
regulation is fairer than I understand.

So the rule is that you can participate with n+1 balls and score
points even if you don't reach a flash, but that you can't move to
n+2 balls if you don't reach the flash with n+1? And is it therefore
a bonus limited only to one competition (n+1 objects if you’re able
to achieve a flash with n objects)?

Even though there are some things that could be tweaked as it
maybe being to over powered to always get atleast 5 points if
you’re the only juggler being allowed to attempt 12 balls,
regardless of how many catches you get.

Exactly, it's okay to encourage jugglers to be daring, but in my
opinion it's not okay to encourage sloppy juggling, done just to get
a few more points.

If not it would be medals for 3 people in at least 10+
competitons, just for numbers juggling.

I am well aware that it is difficult to reconcile the need not to
always and only reward the 3 best in the world, to motivate the
others to grow faster, but in my opinion the regulation can be
improved to make it more representative of the level of each juggler,
and I therefore hope that there will be food for thought from other
jugglers.

But thank you for the feedback even though I see here that
I might come out as a bit defencive!

Thank you for your kind reply. I hope Tom has his say as well, as
does each NJL attendee.

Ciao!

[1] 4 comments https://www.facebook.com/groups/JugglingHome/posts/4137527353138516/?comment_id=4137794223111829&reply_comment_id=4138748253016426&__cft__[0]=AZXSIPx0JeVnbzFq8vO-eu4MzuXUrpiCryozv-j8mdYUtQAva0DReLlDUszvihBErWzKpKIT9er1IRUZ8fCBYZ-eOQFN-
jBFiczBUSpZBwEO0xweCAEkNtxqnNyJaQ_QFtIBXuTTAeflPIIJNjk4hXvC&__tn__=R]-R

https://www.facebook.com/groups/JugglingHome/posts/4137527353138516/?comment_id=4137794223111829&reply_comment_id=4138753786349206&__cft__[0]=AZXSIPx0JeVnbzFq8vO-eu4MzuXUrpiCryozv-j8mdYUtQAva0DReLlDUszvihBErWzKpKIT9er1IRUZ8fCBYZ-eOQFN-
jBFiczBUSpZBwEO0xweCAEkNtxqnNyJaQ_QFtIBXuTTAeflPIIJNjk4hXvC&__tn__=R]-R

https://www.facebook.com/groups/JugglingHome/posts/4137527353138516/?comment_id=4137794223111829&reply_comment_id=4138754516349133&__cft__[0]=AZXSIPx0JeVnbzFq8vO-eu4MzuXUrpiCryozv-j8mdYUtQAva0DReLlDUszvihBErWzKpKIT9er1IRUZ8fCBYZ-eOQFN-
jBFiczBUSpZBwEO0xweCAEkNtxqnNyJaQ_QFtIBXuTTAeflPIIJNjk4hXvC&__tn__=R]-R

https://www.facebook.com/groups/JugglingHome/posts/4137527353138516/?comment_id=4137794223111829&reply_comment_id=4138754929682425&__cft__[0]=AZXSIPx0JeVnbzFq8vO-eu4MzuXUrpiCryozv-j8mdYUtQAva0DReLlDUszvihBErWzKpKIT9er1IRUZ8fCBYZ-eOQFN-
jBFiczBUSpZBwEO0xweCAEkNtxqnNyJaQ_QFtIBXuTTAeflPIIJNjk4hXvC&__tn__=R]-R

--
Let's resurrect rec.juggling

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