and keep it organic.
Seaweed?
On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
and keep it organic.
Seaweed?
wood and charcoal ash is a good source of potassium.
i use Espoma products. blood meal, bone meal and potash for NPK, and
their organic acidifier to lower ph.
https://www.espoma.com
On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
and keep it organic.
Seaweed?
wood and charcoal ash is a good source of potassium.
i use Espoma products. blood meal, bone meal and potash for NPK, and
their organic acidifier to lower ph.
https://www.espoma.com
On 6/13/22 04:43, fos@sdf.org wrote:
On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
and keep it organic.
Seaweed?
wood and charcoal ash is a good source of potassium.
i use Espoma products. blood meal, bone meal and potash for NPK, and
their organic acidifier to lower ph.
https://www.espoma.com
Just found out from Espoma that they no longer
produce their potash
On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 6/13/22 04:43, fos@sdf.org wrote:
On 2022-06-13, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
and keep it organic.
Seaweed?
wood and charcoal ash is a good source of potassium.
i use Espoma products. blood meal, bone meal and potash for NPK, and
their organic acidifier to lower ph.
https://www.espoma.com
Just found out from Espoma that they no longer
produce their potash
i didn't notice it wasn't on the shelves of the retailer i purchase
Espoma products at since i have enough to last a few years. wasn't
looking for it. i use a lot more blood and bone meal than i do potash.
i suggest check with a local nursery. i've never been to one that wasn't happy to share knowledge even if they didn't carry what i was looking for.
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.
On 2022-06-15, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.
i save and use the ashes from the bbq pits and backyard campfires on
flower beds. i'm learning to be more scientific about growing what i eat, though. i have no idea how much potassium in the ashes. the Espoma
potash had 60% potassium by weight. from soil test results and recommendations it's simple math to calculate how much to amend to the
soil. not enough leads to deficiencies, too much is a waste.
On 6/15/22 11:05, fos@sdf.org wrote:
On 2022-06-15, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.
i save and use the ashes from the bbq pits and backyard campfires on
flower beds. i'm learning to be more scientific about growing what i eat,
though. i have no idea how much potassium in the ashes. the Espoma
potash had 60% potassium by weight. from soil test results and
recommendations it's simple math to calculate how much to amend to the
soil. not enough leads to deficiencies, too much is a waste.
What do you guys think of this stuff?
https://www.amazon.com/EASTCHEM-Natural-Organic-Potassium-Soluble/dp/B01N3XC0D7/
T wrote:
On 6/15/22 11:05, fos@sdf.org wrote:
On 2022-06-15, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.
i save and use the ashes from the bbq pits and backyard campfires on
flower beds. i'm learning to be more scientific about growing what i eat, >>> though. i have no idea how much potassium in the ashes. the Espoma
potash had 60% potassium by weight. from soil test results and
recommendations it's simple math to calculate how much to amend to the
soil. not enough leads to deficiencies, too much is a waste.
What do you guys think of this stuff?
https://www.amazon.com/EASTCHEM-Natural-Organic-Potassium-Soluble/dp/B01N3XC0D7/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_humate
what problem are you trying to address?
songbird
On 6/15/22 16:49, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
On 6/15/22 11:05, fos@sdf.org wrote:
On 2022-06-15, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
if you know anyone who uses wood for heating ask them to save
their ashes for you. it's great to have on hand.
i save and use the ashes from the bbq pits and backyard campfires on
flower beds. i'm learning to be more scientific about growing what i eat, >>>> though. i have no idea how much potassium in the ashes. the Espoma
potash had 60% potassium by weight. from soil test results and
recommendations it's simple math to calculate how much to amend to the >>>> soil. not enough leads to deficiencies, too much is a waste.
What do you guys think of this stuff?
https://www.amazon.com/EASTCHEM-Natural-Organic-Potassium-Soluble/dp/B01N3XC0D7/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_humate
what problem are you trying to address?
Perfect miniature garlic. Every thing is perfect,
except they are 1/4 the size they should be. 1/4
the leaves length, 1/4 the bulbs, etc. Absolutely
yummy. Hard kernels. Loved the winter.
Perfect, except everything in miniature.
https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX
Perfect miniature garlic. Every thing is perfect,
except they are 1/4 the size they should be. 1/4
the leaves length, 1/4 the bulbs, etc. Absolutely
yummy. Hard kernels. Loved the winter.
Perfect, except everything in miniature.
https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX
T wrote:
...
Perfect miniature garlic. Every thing is perfect,
except they are 1/4 the size they should be. 1/4
the leaves length, 1/4 the bulbs, etc. Absolutely
yummy. Hard kernels. Loved the winter.
Perfect, except everything in miniature.
https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX
when was that harvested?
when was it planted
and how was it treated?
were the starts small to begin with?
every year to replant i pick only the largest cloves from
a bulb to replant. it will take three years to go from tiny
starts to larger bulb sizes.
what is your elevation? i'm wondering if the sun is just
to harsh for garlic there.
other than decent quality soil and enough moisture garlic
is a crop i like to grow because nothing eats it and i can
put it in a garden outside the fence.
i know you have a problem with soils because of your
location but by now you should have some sort of topsoil
built up if you've been composting and scrounging organic
materials.
you can probably get by with 1/2 cubic foot per bulb if
you use the valuable good soil down deeper (below where
you'd plant the bulb) and then top it off with your poorer
quality and sandier soil. pH probably should be 6.0 - 7.0.
bulbs should normally be planted about three times the
size of the bulb deep,
you can go a little deeper if you're
subject to animals digging or harsher climates but i only
plant garlic deeper here if i'm after green garlic for
earlier harvest as that makes for more white blanched stem.
songbird
i had small garlic last year, not as small as that. this year's garlic
will be mature in a few more weeks, mid july-ish. the plants are bigger
and the stalks a lot thicker than the year before.
the first planting i planted too late. within a week or two the soil
froze. last year, the second, i planted the garlic within days of
receiving the seed garlic in early october (growing zone 6) giving the
roots a chance to develop.
the first year i guessed at the soil nutrients and put some bone meal
and a bit of potash in the holes when planting the garlic thinking that
would help grow nice fat bulbs. last fall i picked up one of the cheap
rapid test kits, checked ph & NPK and amended as recommended before
planting.
this year although the plants and stalk are larger, the leaves aren't as green as i think they should be and some are showing a bit of yellow. i haven't put on nitrogen which would promote leaf growth at the sacrifice
of bulb growth, but i have used fish and seaweed emulsion a few times
which is higher in phosphorus and potassium than it is nitrogen.
right after i harvest the garlic this year, i'll get the LaMotte test
kit out, test the soil, and amend per recommendations. then i'll mulch
the bed with leaf mold until the end of september, test and amend again,
and depending on how large the garlic is plant either purchased seed
garlic or garlic saved from this years harvest for 2023.
am i following the right path here?
...what problem are you trying to address?
And green beans the size of tooth picks.
A single bell pepper the size of a peanut.
Two cucumbers per plant
On 6/16/22 04:40, songbird wrote:
T wrote:
...
Perfect miniature garlic. Every thing is perfect,
except they are 1/4 the size they should be. 1/4
the leaves length, 1/4 the bulbs, etc. Absolutely
yummy. Hard kernels. Loved the winter.
Perfect, except everything in miniature.
https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX
when was that harvested?
These are them:
https://www.burpee.com/garlic-spanish-roja-prod001489.html
Late May after the tops all went yellow and fell off
when was it planted
In early October. First frost was late October
and how was it treated?
With love and care!
Dumped a bag of fertilizer on them before watering them in.
Burpee organic for tomatoes. 5 lb.
They came up in about a week.
were the starts small to begin with?
Yes. They grew to about six to seven inches and stopped.
Stayed beautifully green all winter.
My green onions got to about 2 feet tall over winter
every year to replant i pick only the largest cloves from
a bulb to replant. it will take three years to go from tiny
starts to larger bulb sizes.
what is your elevation? i'm wondering if the sun is just
to harsh for garlic there.
4800 feet.
The sun in low in the sky all winter. We only get
a ton of UV light in the summer when the sun is high.
I sun burn in about 20 minutes. In the Winter,
no sun burn issues. And my garlic went yellow
in May at the first hot days. Not a lot of UV in
May.
other than decent quality soil and enough moisture garlic
is a crop i like to grow because nothing eats it and i can
put it in a garden outside the fence.
I watered about four times in the winter. My berry
plants will die if I do not.
Our winter was a dry one this year.
i know you have a problem with soils because of your
location but by now you should have some sort of topsoil
built up if you've been composting and scrounging organic
materials.
YOU WOULD THINK !!
you can probably get by with 1/2 cubic foot per bulb if
you use the valuable good soil down deeper (below where
you'd plant the bulb) and then top it off with your poorer
quality and sandier soil. pH probably should be 6.0 - 7.0.
bulbs should normally be planted about three times the
size of the bulb deep,
I did.
you can go a little deeper if you're
subject to animals digging or harsher climates but i only
plant garlic deeper here if i'm after green garlic for
earlier harvest as that makes for more white blanched stem.
songbird
And every think came out perfect, except miniature.
The only thing I did different was cut back on the
constant fertilizing as we are in a deep recession
since 2021 and business is really bad and I can't
afford s***.
I really want to test my soil, but can't afford
that either.
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
i had small garlic last year, not as small as that. this year's garlic
will be mature in a few more weeks, mid july-ish. the plants are bigger
and the stalks a lot thicker than the year before.
that's progress! :)
the first planting i planted too late. within a week or two the soil
froze. last year, the second, i planted the garlic within days of
receiving the seed garlic in early october (growing zone 6) giving the
roots a chance to develop.
the first year i guessed at the soil nutrients and put some bone meal
and a bit of potash in the holes when planting the garlic thinking that
would help grow nice fat bulbs. last fall i picked up one of the cheap
rapid test kits, checked ph & NPK and amended as recommended before
planting.
this year although the plants and stalk are larger, the leaves aren't as
green as i think they should be and some are showing a bit of yellow. i
haven't put on nitrogen which would promote leaf growth at the sacrifice
of bulb growth, but i have used fish and seaweed emulsion a few times
which is higher in phosphorus and potassium than it is nitrogen.
right after i harvest the garlic this year, i'll get the LaMotte test
kit out, test the soil, and amend per recommendations. then i'll mulch
the bed with leaf mold until the end of september, test and amend again,
and depending on how large the garlic is plant either purchased seed
garlic or garlic saved from this years harvest for 2023.
am i following the right path here?
don't put amendments in the hole, but mix them througout the
soil area that the garlic cloves will be planted into, you can
use poorer quality soil on top of the cloves because most of the
roots will not grow upwards that much.
mainly after that you don't want it to dry out completely until
the next summer. when frozen outside you don't need to water at
all until the snow melts or if you somehow get an extended dry
and warm spell during the winter.
keep weeded. fertilize only when actively growing.
i hope so. after eating home grown garlic store bought garlic doesn't
taste like anything. am growing romanian red.
https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX
did you take the picture down? i can't see it any
longer.
note that the garlic says it is grown in the NW of
Oregon which is not going to be at all similar to your
climate and soils. it may not be adapted or even
adaptable to someplace that different. i'm not sure.
In early October. First frost was late October
is what you harvested is bigger than what you planted?
dumping fertilizer on top without mixing it in the soil isn't
really all that great a method of planting.
considering your soil is generally alkaline i'd have used
fertilizer for acid loving plants. the issue with fertilizers
for bulb crops is going to be that you want one which is not
as high in N.
you can make a pH indicator out of red cabbage. check
youtube how to do this.
what i meant though was how big were the cloves you planted?
what size? in cm or mm or inches.
Our winter was a dry one this year.
i would guess that is the biggest factor if everything
else was ok.
an extended dry period would signal the plant to finish
and go dormant earlier than otherwise. i still have a hardneck
garlic growing here and it's putting on scapes. did you see any
scapes at all?
you need to water about an inch of moisture a week if your
soil is average. if you have drying winds and full sun you
might need to water more than that. mulch would help once
the plants are up and growing.
if your green onions did ok i'd guess it was more
likely an issue of variety not being adapted to your
conditions than anything else. bulb plants will react
to hot and dry by going dormant - that's what they do.
songbird
On 2022-06-17, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
i had small garlic last year, not as small as that. this year's garlic
will be mature in a few more weeks, mid july-ish. the plants are bigger
and the stalks a lot thicker than the year before.
that's progress! :)
i hope so. after eating home grown garlic store bought garlic doesn't
taste like anything. am growing romanian red.
the first planting i planted too late. within a week or two the soil
froze. last year, the second, i planted the garlic within days of
receiving the seed garlic in early october (growing zone 6) giving the
roots a chance to develop.
the first year i guessed at the soil nutrients and put some bone meal
and a bit of potash in the holes when planting the garlic thinking that
would help grow nice fat bulbs. last fall i picked up one of the cheap
rapid test kits, checked ph & NPK and amended as recommended before
planting.
this year although the plants and stalk are larger, the leaves aren't as >>> green as i think they should be and some are showing a bit of yellow. i
haven't put on nitrogen which would promote leaf growth at the sacrifice >>> of bulb growth, but i have used fish and seaweed emulsion a few times
which is higher in phosphorus and potassium than it is nitrogen.
right after i harvest the garlic this year, i'll get the LaMotte test
kit out, test the soil, and amend per recommendations. then i'll mulch
the bed with leaf mold until the end of september, test and amend again, >>> and depending on how large the garlic is plant either purchased seed
garlic or garlic saved from this years harvest for 2023.
am i following the right path here?
don't put amendments in the hole, but mix them througout the
soil area that the garlic cloves will be planted into, you can
use poorer quality soil on top of the cloves because most of the
roots will not grow upwards that much.
mainly after that you don't want it to dry out completely until
the next summer. when frozen outside you don't need to water at
all until the snow melts or if you somehow get an extended dry
and warm spell during the winter.
this i need to keep a closer eye on in the winter. i never considered
it.
keep weeded. fertilize only when actively growing.
our winters (western ny) are about 5 months long. does testing and
amending nutrients before planting in fall and again at the beginning
of spring growing season sound like too much? organic material is
amended before planting.
On 6/17/22 09:20, songbird wrote:
https://ibb.co/WpYCMwX
did you take the picture down? i can't see it any
longer.
I an still see it. Hmmmmmm ....
note that the garlic says it is grown in the NW of
Oregon which is not going to be at all similar to your
climate and soils. it may not be adapted or even
adaptable to someplace that different. i'm not sure.
Zone 6B. And 10 miles away, the farmers grow garlic
like crazy
In early October. First frost was late October
is what you harvested is bigger than what you planted?
What I planted was normal sized. I planted the
largest cloves.
dumping fertilizer on top without mixing it in the soil isn't
really all that great a method of planting.
I do both. Depends if a plant is already growing there.
I turned the soil over after dumping a 4 lb bag on
the trough before planting the fingers
considering your soil is generally alkaline i'd have used
fertilizer for acid loving plants. the issue with fertilizers
for bulb crops is going to be that you want one which is not
as high in N.
4-4-6 organic.
you can make a pH indicator out of red cabbage. check
youtube how to do this.
Interesting. Will have to find some red cabbage. Will
meet my budget too!
what i meant though was how big were the cloves you planted?
what size? in cm or mm or inches.
I would say the cloves I planed were about 1-1/4 to
1-1/2 inch long
Our winter was a dry one this year.
i would guess that is the biggest factor if everything
else was ok.
an extended dry period would signal the plant to finish
and go dormant earlier than otherwise. i still have a hardneck
garlic growing here and it's putting on scapes. did you see any
scapes at all?
None, but I am not sure this was hard neck.
you need to water about an inch of moisture a week if your
soil is average. if you have drying winds and full sun you
might need to water more than that. mulch would help once
the plants are up and growing.
Okay.
I water between the raids and snows. Probably did
not do enough.
if your green onions did ok i'd guess it was more
likely an issue of variety not being adapted to your
conditions than anything else. bulb plants will react
to hot and dry by going dormant - that's what they do.
Not a single onion seed came up.
I would say the cloves I planed were about 1-1/4 tomass is the point, long and skinny isn't the same thing as
1-1/2 inch long
long and plump.
On 6/19/22 03:56, songbird wrote:
I would say the cloves I planed were about 1-1/4 tomass is the point, long and skinny isn't the same thing as
1-1/2 inch long
long and plump.
They were really fat too.
T wrote:
On 6/19/22 03:56, songbird wrote:
I would say the cloves I planed were about 1-1/4 tomass is the point, long and skinny isn't the same thing as
1-1/2 inch long
long and plump.
They were really fat too.
so they did gain, i'm guessing you just needed some more
water on them at a regular basis. you don't want those roots
to ever go dry until they're almost ready to harvest. onions
are similar, they don't like any dry spells at all until they're
almost done.
songbird
Maybe I should water them every week during the
winter, except when it rains or snows?
and keep it organic.
On 6/13/22 03:45, T wrote:
and keep it organic.
Burn California is back. Every summer California's
atrocious forestry practices results in our skies
darkening with smoke and ash.
Now I mention this because the last two days of smoke
made me remember that my garden LOVES California's ash.
So, potassium deficient soil?
Your thoughts?
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
i had small garlic last year, not as small as that. this year's garlic
will be mature in a few more weeks, mid july-ish. the plants are bigger
and the stalks a lot thicker than the year before.
that's progress! :)
the first planting i planted too late. within a week or two the soil
froze. last year, the second, i planted the garlic within days of
receiving the seed garlic in early october (growing zone 6) giving the
roots a chance to develop.
the first year i guessed at the soil nutrients and put some bone meal
and a bit of potash in the holes when planting the garlic thinking that
would help grow nice fat bulbs. last fall i picked up one of the cheap
rapid test kits, checked ph & NPK and amended as recommended before
planting.
this year although the plants and stalk are larger, the leaves aren't as
green as i think they should be and some are showing a bit of yellow. i
haven't put on nitrogen which would promote leaf growth at the sacrifice
of bulb growth, but i have used fish and seaweed emulsion a few times
which is higher in phosphorus and potassium than it is nitrogen.
right after i harvest the garlic this year, i'll get the LaMotte test
kit out, test the soil, and amend per recommendations. then i'll mulch
the bed with leaf mold until the end of september, test and amend again,
and depending on how large the garlic is plant either purchased seed
garlic or garlic saved from this years harvest for 2023.
am i following the right path here?
don't put amendments in the hole, but mix them througout the
soil area that the garlic cloves will be planted into, you can
use poorer quality soil on top of the cloves because most of the
roots will not grow upwards that much.
mainly after that you don't want it to dry out completely until
the next summer. when frozen outside you don't need to water at
all until the snow melts or if you somehow get an extended dry
and warm spell during the winter.
keep weeded. fertilize only when actively growing.
i harvested my garlic a couple days ago. last year i was disappointed,
this year i'm satisfied but there's room for improvement. the average
size bulbs this year are the size of the largest i had last year. the
largest this year are huge, 2.5 to 3 inches diameter. about 15% of the harvest is that size.
i did lose a lot of cloves. i planted 135 cloves and got 87 bulbs. i
used shredded straw as a mulch and failed to keep it fluffed up. i did
pull quite a bit off in the spring but it was too late, i found a lot a
lot of plants that sprouted and didn't make it to the surface. the ones
that survived were stunted and grew real small bulbs. i'm going to use a different mulch, probably compost mixed with shredded leaves. what's not clear to me is the depth of planting. should 2-3 inches of mulch be
included in the depth of planting? i planted 6" deep and added 2-3 inches
of shredded straw. if i use 2-3 inches of compost with shredded leaves, should i plant only 3-4 inches deep in the actual soil?
watering. i didn't pay close enough attention to keeping the soil moist.
in the fall i planted the cloves, covered with mulch, and left them
alone. this fall, over winter, and next spring, i'll be diligent about maintaining moist soil.
last is fertilization. judging by the color of the plants which were
lighter green this year than last and despite much better results this
year, i'm confident i was too light with nitrogen. a soil test will
determine that next week. will be using less purchased amendments and
more compost, too.
thanks for the insight. excelsior.
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
where abouts are you located?
i harvested my garlic a couple days ago. last year i was disappointed,
this year i'm satisfied but there's room for improvement. the average
size bulbs this year are the size of the largest i had last year. the
largest this year are huge, 2.5 to 3 inches diameter. about 15% of the
harvest is that size.
a step up in size is a good sign. i'm not sure what your
starting point was though. did you use fresh seed garlic from
a new source or is this from replanting what you've always
been growing?
i did lose a lot of cloves. i planted 135 cloves and got 87 bulbs. i
used shredded straw as a mulch and failed to keep it fluffed up. i did
pull quite a bit off in the spring but it was too late, i found a lot a
lot of plants that sprouted and didn't make it to the surface. the ones
that survived were stunted and grew real small bulbs. i'm going to use a
different mulch, probably compost mixed with shredded leaves. what's not
clear to me is the depth of planting. should 2-3 inches of mulch be
included in the depth of planting? i planted 6" deep and added 2-3 inches
of shredded straw. if i use 2-3 inches of compost with shredded leaves,
should i plant only 3-4 inches deep in the actual soil?
since i don't know your growing conditions i can't really
say too much other than if it is being indicated by results
that mulch isn't helping then reduce it. also not knowing
your soil conditions for organic matter or the soil structure
itself i'm not sure if you have too much organic matter or
what is going on.
watering. i didn't pay close enough attention to keeping the soil moist.
in the fall i planted the cloves, covered with mulch, and left them
alone. this fall, over winter, and next spring, i'll be diligent about
maintaining moist soil.
it's really up to rainfall or snow cover (depending upon where
you are at) as to how much moisture you've got so you do have to
at least keep an eye on things. it is rare here that we don't
get enough soil moisture but we've had some dry spells the past
few years that mean i've had to do a lot more watering than what
i would consider normal. gladly the past few days have finally
given us a bit of rain.
last is fertilization. judging by the color of the plants which were
lighter green this year than last and despite much better results this
year, i'm confident i was too light with nitrogen. a soil test will
determine that next week. will be using less purchased amendments and
more compost, too.
if you've been regularly adding organic matter or if this
was a one time thing and the soil community has caught up with
the N and C digesting makes a difference in how things can
work out.
generally i aim for replacing what i'm removing and then
amend as best i can. i'm seeing an improvement in gardens as
i can get the worm populations restored but without being able
to grow cover crops and use mulches it is much slower than it
would be doing otherwise. still with the mostly clay soils we
have when i can get things added the clay does help hold the
nutrients.
rains and wind can also bring some extra nutrients along.
I got the results of my first soil test last week. It was low on
Nitrogen, potassium, and sulfur, and at the top of the scale at 15%
organic matter. They say 5% is as high as you need. I guess I've been overdoing the compost. Also very high on phosphate, which may be due to
the compost too. I also needed lime to raise the ph, which was at 6.1.
I am glad I did the test. We get 5 free tests (for life) from the conservation district. After that, it is currently $25.
Bob F wrote:
...
I got the results of my first soil test last week. It was low on
Nitrogen, potassium, and sulfur, and at the top of the scale at 15%
organic matter. They say 5% is as high as you need. I guess I've been
overdoing the compost. Also very high on phosphate, which may be due to
the compost too. I also needed lime to raise the ph, which was at 6.1.
what is your soil structure like? sandy? loam? clay content?
that should have also been a part of a soil test.
will you be changing your garden beds to reduce the organic
matter level or stop adding compost for a few seasons and then
retest?
around here i would be moving garden soil around because i
have so many gardens that can use an organic matter boost and i
have so little of it to spare. at the end of each garden season
i bury almost all garden debris and that does help but it is
never enough. i call it low-till gardening because i'm rarely
digging more than 5%-10% of a garden for the entire season.
I am glad I did the test. We get 5 free tests (for life) from the
conservation district. After that, it is currently $25.
that's nice, i've never done anything other than eyeball things
here and i am curious about what the pH is in a few gardens, but i
never get around to testing it because for the most part the
gardens are doing ok with what i'm amending.
our well water does contain some calcium and iron and i've had
to water a lot this year so i know that is going to change the
pH a little, but the rains are slightly acidic so when we get
more rains i hope it balances out.
the actual fertilizer amendment i use for spot feeding does
have eggshells in there along with whatever else the food scraps
bring for trace nutrients, i'm not too worried about them. i
use the results of my heaviest feeding plants (the tomatoes) to
guage how good it is and they are 4ft tall already and have nice
green leaves.
time to get back out there and get a few things done before
it gets too hot again.
songbird
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
where abouts are you located?
i harvested my garlic a couple days ago. last year i was disappointed,
this year i'm satisfied but there's room for improvement. the average
size bulbs this year are the size of the largest i had last year. the
largest this year are huge, 2.5 to 3 inches diameter. about 15% of the
harvest is that size.
a step up in size is a good sign. i'm not sure what your
starting point was though. did you use fresh seed garlic from
a new source or is this from replanting what you've always
been growing?
i did lose a lot of cloves. i planted 135 cloves and got 87 bulbs. i
used shredded straw as a mulch and failed to keep it fluffed up. i did
pull quite a bit off in the spring but it was too late, i found a lot a
lot of plants that sprouted and didn't make it to the surface. the ones
that survived were stunted and grew real small bulbs. i'm going to use a
different mulch, probably compost mixed with shredded leaves. what's not
clear to me is the depth of planting. should 2-3 inches of mulch be
included in the depth of planting? i planted 6" deep and added 2-3 inches
of shredded straw. if i use 2-3 inches of compost with shredded leaves,
should i plant only 3-4 inches deep in the actual soil?
since i don't know your growing conditions i can't really
say too much other than if it is being indicated by results
that mulch isn't helping then reduce it. also not knowing
your soil conditions for organic matter or the soil structure
itself i'm not sure if you have too much organic matter or
what is going on.
watering. i didn't pay close enough attention to keeping the soil moist.
in the fall i planted the cloves, covered with mulch, and left them
alone. this fall, over winter, and next spring, i'll be diligent about
maintaining moist soil.
it's really up to rainfall or snow cover (depending upon where
you are at) as to how much moisture you've got so you do have to
at least keep an eye on things. it is rare here that we don't
get enough soil moisture but we've had some dry spells the past
few years that mean i've had to do a lot more watering than what
i would consider normal. gladly the past few days have finally
given us a bit of rain.
last is fertilization. judging by the color of the plants which were
lighter green this year than last and despite much better results this
year, i'm confident i was too light with nitrogen. a soil test will
determine that next week. will be using less purchased amendments and
more compost, too.
if you've been regularly adding organic matter or if this
was a one time thing and the soil community has caught up with
the N and C digesting makes a difference in how things can
work out.
generally i aim for replacing what i'm removing and then
amend as best i can. i'm seeing an improvement in gardens as
i can get the worm populations restored but without being able
to grow cover crops and use mulches it is much slower than it
would be doing otherwise. still with the mostly clay soils we
have when i can get things added the clay does help hold the
nutrients.
rains and wind can also bring some extra nutrients along.
thanks for the insight. excelsior.
two years in a row purchased romanian red seed garlic from Burpee.
unless someone says holy crap don't do that, i'm doing it again this
year. i want to eat my large garlic, not stick it back in the ground.
songbird wrote:
two years in a row purchased romanian red seed garlic from Burpee.
unless someone says holy crap don't do that, i'm doing it again this
year. i want to eat my large garlic, not stick it back in the ground.
since i don't know your growing conditions i can't really
say too much other than if it is being indicated by results
that mulch isn't helping then reduce it. also not knowing
your soil conditions for organic matter or the soil structure
itself i'm not sure if you have too much organic matter or
what is going on.
thank you. thank you very much for asking these questions. you're making
me think.
i have no idea how much organic material is in the soil and i now see
it's extremely relevant. there are some soil guides provided with the
LaMotte testing kit i purchased sitting on my nightstand, obviously unfortunatly unread.
today i pulled soil samples to dry for nutrient testing. this week some
of it is headed to cornell university for further analysis. again,
thanks.
watering. i didn't pay close enough attention to keeping the soil moist. >>> in the fall i planted the cloves, covered with mulch, and left them
alone. this fall, over winter, and next spring, i'll be diligent about
maintaining moist soil.
it's really up to rainfall or snow cover (depending upon where
you are at) as to how much moisture you've got so you do have to
at least keep an eye on things. it is rare here that we don't
get enough soil moisture but we've had some dry spells the past
few years that mean i've had to do a lot more watering than what
i would consider normal. gladly the past few days have finally
given us a bit of rain.
here in WNY fall is usually wet and there's plenty of snow cover. but how much moisture is there is when the weather is cool never crossed my
mind. i see is something i must pay attention to.
last is fertilization. judging by the color of the plants which were
lighter green this year than last and despite much better results this
year, i'm confident i was too light with nitrogen. a soil test will
determine that next week. will be using less purchased amendments and
more compost, too.
if you've been regularly adding organic matter or if this
was a one time thing and the soil community has caught up with
the N and C digesting makes a difference in how things can
work out.
generally i aim for replacing what i'm removing and then
amend as best i can. i'm seeing an improvement in gardens as
i can get the worm populations restored but without being able
to grow cover crops and use mulches it is much slower than it
would be doing otherwise. still with the mostly clay soils we
have when i can get things added the clay does help hold the
nutrients.
rains and wind can also bring some extra nutrients along.
thanks for the insight. excelsior.
today i pulled soil samples to dry for nutrient testing. this week some
of it is headed to cornell university for further analysis. again,
thanks.
fos@sdf.org wrote:
thank you. thank you very much for asking these questions. you're making
me think.
that's the intent. :)
y.w. :) keep on learning. :)
On 7/17/2022 4:11 PM, fos@sdf.org wrote:
two years in a row purchased romanian red seed garlic from Burpee.
unless someone says holy crap don't do that, i'm doing it again this
year. i want to eat my large garlic, not stick it back in the ground.
Check this out for more choices.
https://filareefarm.com/
I grew 4 varieties from them for several years. I just saved a couple of
the largest bulbs each year for the next year.
On 7/17/2022 4:11 PM, fos@sdf.org wrote:
today i pulled soil samples to dry for nutrient testing. this week some
of it is headed to cornell university for further analysis. again,
thanks.
For my test, drying was specifically to be avoided. They wanted it
mailed ASAP after digging them, and even suggested mailing early in the
week to avoid weekend delays in the shipping process.
On 2022-07-18, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
fos@sdf.org wrote:
thank you. thank you very much for asking these questions. you're making >>> me think.
that's the intent. :)
braining is always good. :)
y.w. :) keep on learning. :)
am working on it. a lot of this is common sense once you know what to
look for. you simply don't know what you don't know. lol.
based on your advice i'm going to use the garlic i grew for seed
garlic in the fall. even after using the largest bulbs there will still
be plenty left to go through life for the next year smelling like
garlic. :D the point you made about acclimation and the possibility of bringing in disease is right on target. no internet needed to make
that decision, just some braining required. plus, the money saved from not purchasing more seed garlic will buy several very thorough soil tests.
will take approx a month to get the tests and recommendations back, will
be sending it out early next week. will post results here.
fos@sdf.org wrote:
On 2022-07-18, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
fos@sdf.org wrote:
thank you. thank you very much for asking these questions. you're making >>>> me think.
that's the intent. :)
braining is always good. :)
y.w. :) keep on learning. :)
am working on it. a lot of this is common sense once you know what to
look for. you simply don't know what you don't know. lol.
based on your advice i'm going to use the garlic i grew for seed
garlic in the fall. even after using the largest bulbs there will still
be plenty left to go through life for the next year smelling like
garlic. :D the point you made about acclimation and the possibility of
bringing in disease is right on target. no internet needed to make
that decision, just some braining required. plus, the money saved from not >> purchasing more seed garlic will buy several very thorough soil tests.
will take approx a month to get the tests and recommendations back, will
be sending it out early next week. will post results here.
all good to hear, i really hope this helps and you are happy
with the results. :)
caught the bastard red handed mowing down my carrots lol.
i chased that marauder around for 20 minutes, phone in hand to take
photos of course. it ran past the gate at least 10 times before it
figured out that was its only escape route. fun times gardening.
i'm planning on having these soil tests done asap on the garlic bed.
https://dairyone.com/services/agronomy-services/soil-analysis
"A soil health assessment is a comprehensive analysis of the soil that measures attributes associated with physical, chemical, and biological processes. For a proper assessment of your soil’s health, add (860)
Solvita CO2 Burst, SLAN, and VAST to any analysis as a supplemental
service."
https://dairyone.com/services/agronomy-services/soil-analysis/packages/
"(833E) PrePlant $13: pH, buffer pH (lime requirement), organic matter, Modified Morgan phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, aluminum,
iron, zinc, and manganese."
question is: overkill or not?
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
i chased that marauder around for 20 minutes, phone in hand to take
photos of course. it ran past the gate at least 10 times before it
figured out that was its only escape route. fun times gardening.
i usually have to hunt them here a few times a year. they
constantly are trying to eat anything they can get at. we
don't have the right fence even around the fenced gardens so
they sometimes get in there too, but not as often as they do
the unfenced areas. when/if i ever get the chance i'm fencing
with better stuff to keep them out of most of the yard. only
a few hundred more feet will do it and i will be done with
deer, rabbits and groundhogs. i'm looking forwards to that
because i sure lost a lot of plants this year to deer in a
large garden. it bites to do all the work of planting,
watering and weeding and then have it all get destroyed.
How high is your fence? My father ended up with a 10 foot fence around
his rural garden. He told me that at a shorter level (8'?) that he
watched a deer standing outside the fence hop over it in one motion.
https://worlddeer.org/how-high-can-a-deer-jump/
fos@sdf.org wrote:
...
i'm planning on having these soil tests done asap on the garlic bed.
https://dairyone.com/services/agronomy-services/soil-analysis
"A soil health assessment is a comprehensive analysis of the soil that
measures attributes associated with physical, chemical, and biological
processes. For a proper assessment of your soil’s health, add (860)
Solvita CO2 Burst, SLAN, and VAST to any analysis as a supplemental
service."
https://dairyone.com/services/agronomy-services/soil-analysis/packages/
"(833E) PrePlant $13: pH, buffer pH (lime requirement), organic matter,
Modified Morgan phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, aluminum,
iron, zinc, and manganese."
question is: overkill or not?
i'm not familiar with soil testing terminology so sorry i
can't say much other than if it isn't expensive and you have
issues then it may be worth it.
so far my issues are more critter related than soil/nutrient
ones so i don't do much soil testing. i think from how much i
have to water this year that my pH will be higher.
everything i have is growing well but i think there's much room for improvement, hence the soil testing. the only problem i'm having is
a little powdery mildew on cucumbers and zucchini plants. also some on
the passion flower vines. just noticed it and will be treating it with
neem oil.
critters i'm learning to live with. they're extraordinarily brutal this
year due to the drought. everything is dry and brown except for those of
us watering our gardens and it's attracting more critters than usual.
it's making for something interesting though. in my front yard around our flag pole we planted sunflower seeds. last year the only problem we
had was robins pulling some seedlings out. we kept planting and
prevailed. this year the woodchuck was getting at them. i took the 4 survivors, two seedlings and two 18" tall plants that got mowed down,
and transplanted them in the safety of the fenced veggie garden. the seedlings are growing fine. the two plants that got mowed down are
mutants now. one is now growing 4 stems with growing buds, and the other
sent a stem up from near the bottom off the side with a growing bud.
will be interesting to see how they finish growing since they're not
normal.
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