• How active is Empire these days?

    From jonathan.day.jobs@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 27 18:15:47 2016
    I'm thinking as much server development as active servers with games. (A look at stalled/abandoned clients tells me the story on the other side, but you can have a perfectly active wargaming community without having fancy KDE-based clients for desktops
    and tablets.)

    I've been hovering on the sidelines for a while, but I now have far too much free time, a Linux development+gaming box and an interest in seeing if Empire is the correct direction to move in.

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  • From Gerd Flaig@21:1/5 to jonathan.day.jobs@gmail.com on Sun May 1 19:35:34 2016
    jonathan.day.jobs@gmail.com writes:

    I'm thinking as much server development as active servers with
    games. (A look at stalled/abandoned clients tells me the story on the
    other side, but you can have a perfectly active wargaming community
    without having fancy KDE-based clients for desktops and tablets.)

    I've been hovering on the sidelines for a while, but I now have far
    too much free time, a Linux development+gaming box and an interest in
    seeing if Empire is the correct direction to move in.

    the server is pretty stable these days, with one to a few releases per
    year. The current backlog can be seen at https://sourceforge.net/p/empserver/bugs/.

    On the client side, I think WinACE works and PTkEI2 can be persuaded to
    work, however since I haven't played in a long time I don't know for
    sure.

    There are regular un-themed games going on, see http://www.wolfpackempire.com/repgames.html and http://www.wolfpackempire.com/blitzes.html.

    HTH

    Goodbyte, Gerd.

    --
    The last thing one knows in constructing a work is what to put first.
    -- Blaise Pascal

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  • From thjohnson1104@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 16 19:29:09 2016
    Marcus,
    Good to see the blitzes and repeating games still being played. Lots of changes to the server too.
    Tom (aka Ski)

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  • From Martin Neitzel@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 17 21:19:38 2016
    Good to see the blitzes and repeating games still being played.

    I just learned this weekend that the "changeling" blitz is
    exactly that -- running a different option/rule set every game.
    D'oh!

    Lots of changes to the server too.

    And I fired up my client again after about two years just because
    "empserver" is one of the projects where I learn how to use git(1) :-)

    [It's a tight race between empire and git which of them has more
    options to learn :-) ]

    Martin (mn)

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  • From Markus Armbruster@21:1/5 to thjohnson1104@gmail.com on Sat May 21 18:57:02 2016
    thjohnson1104@gmail.com writes:

    Marcus,
    Good to see the blitzes and repeating games still being played. Lots of changes to the server too.
    Tom (aka Ski)

    Thanks! I hope to get another release out this summer.

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  • From Markus Armbruster@21:1/5 to Martin Neitzel on Sat May 21 19:01:50 2016
    neitzel@gaertner.de (Martin Neitzel) writes:

    Good to see the blitzes and repeating games still being played.

    I just learned this weekend that the "changeling" blitz is
    exactly that -- running a different option/rule set every game.
    D'oh!

    Lots of changes to the server too.

    And I fired up my client again after about two years just because
    "empserver" is one of the projects where I learn how to use git(1) :-)

    Git has become indispensable for me.

    I'm happy to assist wannabe Empire coders with advice, as time permits.
    Patches are welcome! Although I have to admit that I'm still sitting on
    a rather nice one that adds readline support to the client, because it
    doesn't quite work for a few corner cases, and making it work has turned
    out to be a bit of a puzzle.

    [It's a tight race between empire and git which of them has more
    options to learn :-) ]

    Hah!

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  • From Markus Armbruster@21:1/5 to stepvhen.web@gmail.com on Sat May 21 19:08:22 2016
    stepvhen.web@gmail.com writes:

    I have been wanting to get into Empire. I am using the bare-bones
    command line client, out of preference and lack of options on Linux. I haven't managed to do much more than claim a little territory in the
    daily blitzes, but I thought about writing up an informal tutorial
    covering my understanding as I gain it. It would be a synthesis of old
    guides and new information (like how "res" is no longer automatic
    shorthand for "resources").

    I think if there is better documentation and introductory resources,
    then it will likely help with attracting more players and
    volunteers. I am sort of in the same boat as Jonathan, far too much
    free time right now, so I will try to get started on some
    stuff. First, I need to figure out how to play.

    Yes, better introductory material is needed. The closest we have is
    Geoff Cashman's "User's Guide to Empire"[*], but it's very much out of
    date. We could use something like it for modern Empire, or a thorough
    update of the classic Guide by someone who knows the game well.


    [*] http://www.wolfpackempire.com/infopages/Guide.html

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  • From Markus Armbruster@21:1/5 to jonathan.day.jobs@gmail.com on Mon May 2 09:58:00 2016
    jonathan.day.jobs@gmail.com writes:

    I'm thinking as much server development as active servers with
    games. (A look at stalled/abandoned clients tells me the story on the
    other side, but you can have a perfectly active wargaming community
    without having fancy KDE-based clients for desktops and tablets.)

    I've been hovering on the sidelines for a while, but I now have far
    too much free time, a Linux development+gaming box and an interest in
    seeing if Empire is the correct direction to move in.

    Empire has been made and is kept alive 100% by volunteers. It isn't as
    lively as it used to be, because we've done a bad job attracting
    volunteers.

    We have the Wolfpack Fever series of repeating games, eight per year.
    People play them and have fun, but they can't be compared to a real
    thematic game.

    We haven't had a thematic game in quite some time. Volunteer deities
    wanted. I'd be happy to advise and assist. I think this is our most
    serious immediate problem.

    The Empire community has always congregated right here, in r.g.e. Unfortunately, Usenet has become moribund. Few people find us here, and
    even bona fide Empire players don't bother to keep their Usenet access
    going beyond Google's service (which is at the "better than nothing"
    level, to put it kindly). Moving elsewhere risks splitting the forum
    unless we can bridge it both ways somehow.

    I've been maintaining the server since 2003. Others have made useful contributions, but the bulk of the work is mine. Nowadays, my Empire
    hacking happens in spurts, with long pauses. We need to get more people involved in the code.

    The server implements a system of game rules. Thus, we get two kinds of issues: with the implementation and with the rules.

    The implementation part is in decent shape. A lot of effort has gone
    into catching the kind of abusable bugs that used to plague Empire.
    These have become quite rare now. Of course, there's more to do (there
    always is, in any useful program), but priority has shifted away from implementation bugs.

    We now have the beginnings of a test suite. It needs lots of work.

    In my opinion, the rules need substantial work, but we have to be
    careful to keep it Empire. There's a lot of accidental complexity that
    doesn't contribute to the game. I could (and perhaps I should) write
    several essays on this. Not today.

    There's a lengthy list of known bugs[*], but it's a bit of a dump. If
    we had a real server coding community going, we'd have to do a better
    job tracking issues. Anyway, patches welcome. Bug reports, too.

    Our documentation is in an archaic format: roff, with our very own
    macros. Few people understand this stuff. Formatting to HTML is a
    total hack. It should be converted into a more accessible format.

    A Wiki could be useful. Ideally supporting the documentation's format directly, so we can keep documentation editable in the Wiki, too. I'd
    like the Wiki to be backed with git, to make merging back into the
    server code easier.

    We have a web site[**]. In its current form, it was originally created
    by Geoff Cashman, and he also maintained it for quite a while. Then it
    drifted along on auto pilot until I broke down and renovated it in 2013. Another opening for volunteers.

    Yet another cool project that never got beyond the dreaming stage is
    "Empire Bootcamp": create a series of canned scenarios for solo play, to
    serve as a tutorial.

    Writing smart clients is hard. The most complete one is still WinACE.
    Would be nice to have it run on non-Windows systems, too. Other than
    that, I can't tell you what kind of work it needs.

    Vita brevis, ars longa.


    [*] https://sourceforge.net/p/empserver/bugs/
    [**] http://www.wolfpackempire.com/

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  • From Martin Neitzel@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 21 20:14:31 2016
    Patches are welcome! Although I have to admit that I'm still sitting on
    a rather nice one that adds readline support to the client, because it >doesn't quite work for a few corner cases, and making it work has turned
    out to be a bit of a puzzle.

    With regards to readline: I am using

    rlwrap -f cmds empire

    where cmds is excerpted from info/toc and provides auto-completion
    on all commands. Very nice. What I also don't want to miss anymore:

    The following changes since commit
    4bce12ac0bc0c2ce465cda4c9720c52ce85a1853:

    travis: Enable OS X (2015-12-05 13:19:39 +0100)

    are available in the git repository at:

    git://hackett.marshlabs.gaertner.de/empserver

    for you to fetch changes up to df66ddda937eba30fb6a0f325b9b71432d4f0192:

    Default | > >> targets to the last one used. (2016-05-21 21:53:53 +0200)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Martin Neitzel (1):
    Default | > >> targets to the last one used.

    info/Syntax.t | 10 ++++++----
    src/client/servcmd.c | 40 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++----
    2 files changed, 42 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-)

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  • From stepvhen.web@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Markus Armbruster on Mon May 2 16:19:41 2016
    On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 3:58:01 AM UTC-4, Markus Armbruster wrote:
    jonathan.day.jobs@gmail.com writes:

    I'm thinking as much server development as active servers with
    games. (A look at stalled/abandoned clients tells me the story on the
    other side, but you can have a perfectly active wargaming community
    without having fancy KDE-based clients for desktops and tablets.)

    I've been hovering on the sidelines for a while, but I now have far
    too much free time, a Linux development+gaming box and an interest in seeing if Empire is the correct direction to move in.

    Empire has been made and is kept alive 100% by volunteers. It isn't as lively as it used to be, because we've done a bad job attracting
    volunteers.

    We have the Wolfpack Fever series of repeating games, eight per year.
    People play them and have fun, but they can't be compared to a real
    thematic game.

    We haven't had a thematic game in quite some time. Volunteer deities
    wanted. I'd be happy to advise and assist. I think this is our most
    serious immediate problem.

    The Empire community has always congregated right here, in r.g.e. Unfortunately, Usenet has become moribund. Few people find us here, and
    even bona fide Empire players don't bother to keep their Usenet access
    going beyond Google's service (which is at the "better than nothing"
    level, to put it kindly). Moving elsewhere risks splitting the forum
    unless we can bridge it both ways somehow.

    I've been maintaining the server since 2003. Others have made useful contributions, but the bulk of the work is mine. Nowadays, my Empire
    hacking happens in spurts, with long pauses. We need to get more people involved in the code.

    The server implements a system of game rules. Thus, we get two kinds of issues: with the implementation and with the rules.

    The implementation part is in decent shape. A lot of effort has gone
    into catching the kind of abusable bugs that used to plague Empire.
    These have become quite rare now. Of course, there's more to do (there always is, in any useful program), but priority has shifted away from implementation bugs.

    We now have the beginnings of a test suite. It needs lots of work.

    In my opinion, the rules need substantial work, but we have to be
    careful to keep it Empire. There's a lot of accidental complexity that doesn't contribute to the game. I could (and perhaps I should) write
    several essays on this. Not today.

    There's a lengthy list of known bugs[*], but it's a bit of a dump. If
    we had a real server coding community going, we'd have to do a better
    job tracking issues. Anyway, patches welcome. Bug reports, too.

    Our documentation is in an archaic format: roff, with our very own
    macros. Few people understand this stuff. Formatting to HTML is a
    total hack. It should be converted into a more accessible format.

    A Wiki could be useful. Ideally supporting the documentation's format directly, so we can keep documentation editable in the Wiki, too. I'd
    like the Wiki to be backed with git, to make merging back into the
    server code easier.

    We have a web site[**]. In its current form, it was originally created
    by Geoff Cashman, and he also maintained it for quite a while. Then it drifted along on auto pilot until I broke down and renovated it in 2013. Another opening for volunteers.

    Yet another cool project that never got beyond the dreaming stage is
    "Empire Bootcamp": create a series of canned scenarios for solo play, to serve as a tutorial.

    Writing smart clients is hard. The most complete one is still WinACE.
    Would be nice to have it run on non-Windows systems, too. Other than
    that, I can't tell you what kind of work it needs.

    Vita brevis, ars longa.


    [*] https://sourceforge.net/p/empserver/bugs/
    [**] http://www.wolfpackempire.com/

    I have been wanting to get into Empire. I am using the bare-bones command line client, out of preference and lack of options on Linux. I haven't managed to do much more than claim a little territory in the daily blitzes, but I thought about writing up an
    informal tutorial covering my understanding as I gain it. It would be a synthesis of old guides and new information (like how "res" is no longer automatic shorthand for "resources").

    I think if there is better documentation and introductory resources, then it will likely help with attracting more players and volunteers. I am sort of in the same boat as Jonathan, far too much free time right now, so I will try to get started on some
    stuff. First, I need to figure out how to play.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Markus Armbruster@21:1/5 to Zach Metzinger on Sat Jun 18 09:52:21 2016
    Zach Metzinger <zmetzing@nospam.thanks.foo> writes:

    On 05/02/16 02:58, Markus Armbruster wrote:
    The Empire community has always congregated right here, in r.g.e.
    Unfortunately, Usenet has become moribund. Few people find us here, and
    even bona fide Empire players don't bother to keep their Usenet access
    going beyond Google's service (which is at the "better than nothing"
    level, to put it kindly). Moving elsewhere risks splitting the forum
    unless we can bridge it both ways somehow.

    There's always eternal-september.org + your favorite news reader (Thunderbird, nn, etc.)

    Yes, but our audience here has shrunk anyway. Usenet has become a
    rather obscure resource; much of today's networked population has no
    idea it exists, let alone what a newsreader is. Even existing users
    have wandered away. We've largely relapsed to centralized services, if
    not walled gardens. Sad.

    Yet another cool project that never got beyond the dreaming stage is
    "Empire Bootcamp": create a series of canned scenarios for solo play, to
    serve as a tutorial.

    I found empire as a curiosity, but I'm still determining which bit of
    the elephant to start eating.

    How does one get started?

    I can only tell you how I got started. My first exposure was Amiga
    Empire, an independent re-implementation of PSL Empire. Networking was
    null modems for us back then. When we gained access to real machines
    and networks, we found this Empire. I messed with it a bit on and off,
    read much of the documentation (yes, I'm that kind of guy), and only
    later decided to take the plunge and play a real game (LOTR, 2002). I
    got creamed (of course), but I learned much more in this one game than
    in all my messing before. Made some friends, too (hi, Mike!).

    It's not a casual "click when you're bored" game. There is a learning
    curve. I suggest splitting the curve into running your country in
    isolation and interacting with others.

    For the former, you can use the Changeling blitz. If competition shows
    up at your doorstep, explain what you're doing and ask to be left alone.
    But I'd use my own private server instead, at least initially, because
    that lets me pace the game myself: demand updates, no scheduled updates.
    If you have trouble setting up a server, as for help here, or e-mail me.

    For the latter, you need to jump into the fray. A Fever recurring game
    should do fine.

    Have fun!

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  • From Zach Metzinger@21:1/5 to Markus Armbruster on Wed Jun 8 23:16:58 2016
    On 05/02/16 02:58, Markus Armbruster wrote:
    The Empire community has always congregated right here, in r.g.e. Unfortunately, Usenet has become moribund. Few people find us here, and
    even bona fide Empire players don't bother to keep their Usenet access
    going beyond Google's service (which is at the "better than nothing"
    level, to put it kindly). Moving elsewhere risks splitting the forum
    unless we can bridge it both ways somehow.

    There's always eternal-september.org + your favorite news reader
    (Thunderbird, nn, etc.)

    Yet another cool project that never got beyond the dreaming stage is
    "Empire Bootcamp": create a series of canned scenarios for solo play, to serve as a tutorial.

    I found empire as a curiosity, but I'm still determining which bit of
    the elephant to start eating.

    How does one get started?

    --- Zach

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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