On Friday, July 26, 2002 at 5:56:23 AM UTC+7, Ygorl Slaad wrote:

In article <ahpkr3$s9t$1...@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com>, Dick....@lexisnexis.com says...

However, within the context of the game defined by the rules, there
are uncertainties.

And divination, say Golden Dawn style tarot divination, is a game defined
by rules, with plenty of uncertainty to spare.

If there were none, there would be no game to play.

Yes, precisely, we'd just as well burn the cards, google at their beauty,
or worse yet, be a typical poster to Tarot-L

the four of clubs (or four of rods, or whatever) represents something else for divination purposes. The rules you are writing about associate the "something else" with the card. How that association is verified is a good bit more problematic.

How is the association verified in a trick-taking or other game? It's
equally arbitrary. Players agree that card X beats card Y, hand P beats
hand Q, and so on. No need for verification, it's just an agreement to
the rules of the game.

Even where two readers rely on the same general guidelines,
their interpretation will vary, in part because the guidelines themselves warn
that they must.

If what you're saying is that the "something else" stipulated by the
rules of divination is less "black & white" than the "something else's"
of a card game, then we're in agreement.

Third, odds calculations are *in*definite in both cases.

Probabilities

assign numerical values to the *likelihood* of future events based

on

*past* outcomes and formulae that generalize what those past

outcomes

*should be* (remember, assumptions underly everything). Divination assigns likelihood to future events as well, and guess what, based

on

*past* outcomes too, like a spread of cards. Nothing is definite,

all

things are likely to happen (or not).

To the extent this statement applies to playing cards themselves, it's misleading to wrong.

But it applies to the game itself. Certainly, once card X pops up, it's futile to adjust our strategy to it popping up again (assuming we're
playing with a single deck). And as in tarot divination, once Death, 10
of Swords, or other dreaded card shows up, it's too late, to the dismay
of the (silly) querent.

In a trick-taking game, there is an established hierarchy of rank and
suit, such that one card among those played will capture the trick.
That is defined by the rules, and it is verifiable within the context
of the game. The order varies in different games, but within each it
is established and definite.

In the case of divination, the probability that the four of rods will
show in the same circumstances is also based on the shuffle and so on.
Its associated meaning, combined with its appearance in a specific
place in a layout, will alter its interpretation, but the connection
of its presence to future events outside the deal of the cards remains
more difficult to determine.

Agreed.

In other words, the same card in the same
position in the same layout doesn't mean the same thing to different readers if their rules -- or their interpretation of the rules -- are
not the same to begin with.

But that's the same for gamers. Cards are affected by each other in a
tarot spread, like words are affected by each other in a sentence. And
cards are affected by each other in a hand, more precisely, in
determining the worth of that hand in the play, like the worth of a tarot spread, so much as it describes the future play, in whatever game a
querent is playing.

True enough. Just to be clear, I personally claim no psychic powers,
and I've never met anyone I believe to have such powers. I can stare
at a Tarot layout for hours and not see an instant into the future.
But I do nonetheless find some value in laying out the cards and going through the routine. The reason is that I react to the interpretations
the layouts suggest -- it helps me to see more clearly what the issues actually are around a given question. Used that way, I believe Tarot
(or any other form of divination) is a useful tool that *can* help to resolve concerns that come up in my life. So while I can't tell who's bonking anyone's wife, I can more clearly understand my own reaction
to the situation. Hey, it's cheaper than a shrink!

LMAO 8)
Regards.
--
Ygorl Slaad, Lord of Entropy

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