On 03.12.2020 07:34, Erik L wrote:
I always find it's really difficult to combine wishless and polyless precisely because you don't have a reliable way to get those key items and you get stuck endlessly searching for them.
Yes, that's sometimes the case. Though wishes is anyway something I don't
rely on until the Castle, the same with polypiles. The latter is also not rewarding since I typically want magical items that are normally - with exceptions - only rarely obtained from random sources (including polypiles). Once fit for fountain effects I occasionally try to look for a supportive
water demon if I'm in dire need of something.
But.. maybe I'll give it a try.
The priest is always a PITA, it doesn't have strong melee or strong ranged attacks. Can't two weapon, can't multishot anything, can't even get Attack spells to basic.
Priests are certainly not amongst the easy roles. With their inherent BUC identification their strength is to survive the early game by trying out
every non-cursed armor. In the quest they then obtain an abundance of loot
from the chests in the Quest Locate level; another step in survivability.
That leads me to theorize the priest is more of a pacifist, using lots of pets, etc.
I've never considered them pacifists. Of course pets support my characters,
and not only my priests, as long as necessary, but slaughtering monsters yourself is crucial (to gain levels for the quest admittance and the HPs generally to survive, to obtain the death drops you want from monsters, as
you subsequently write).
However, I think you have the right idea - instead of
polypiling - we just slaughter fields and fields of monsters until they
drop what we want. Magic traps, ?oCM, /oCM, Bags of Tricks, Spellbook of Create Monster is the best thing you could have. It's time-consuming, but that's what polyless/wishless is.
Given that polypiling was never a precondition for me and wishing nothing
you can depend on I have to disagree here; "polyless/wishless" is typically
the standard for me during the early game. The way I usually go is to look
for alternatives (see below for an example) to obtain very useful or even essential items.
The other day I also discovered a fun trick where you let a Ki-Rin chase
you around and continually summon monsters... However, without Magic Resistance this might be dangerous.
Nice trick. (But where from do you get Ki-rins in the early/mid game?)
Myself I try to avoid hostile Ki-rins and also try to avoid summon storms
which are a predominant death reason in my experience.
One of the Mine's End variants has 2 vampires, the maze one I think. Sometimes you get lucky and they have cloaks of magic resistance. That
would also be a dope way to start...
MR is a crucial property. For that reason, e.g., I (as a healer) strive for
the quest to look for gray dragons, or, as any other class, reverse genocide gray dragons for a change to get dragon scales, provided that I've found a scroll of genocide.
But there were games where I didn't find even standard items - like a sack,
or where I decided to spend a wish (in an otherwise wishless game) for a
magic whistle, or a stethoscope - until reaching the Vibrating Square level.
I also recall to have once cleared the whole dungeon and (not having had a
base camp with spare loot) blew up my bag of holding with everyting; in
that case I once started altar camping for death drops and divine gifts,
in another case I went almost "naked" with supportive tools to finish the
game quickly. It boils down to identify the crucial items and look for all options available in the game to get them or substitute them.
Since I'm currently playing Slashem a final remark seems appropriate; in
that variant the situation is a bit different. While overall it's a much more difficult game you also have more options, in a negative and positive sense. For example; the existance of new monster attack types require more defences, but the slots for rings, amulets, armor, etc. are limited. On the other hand you have a lot more level branches with new (certainly demanding) challenges but also with useful prizes if you succeed. So you have more sources for necessary items, but it's much more difficult to get them, and if you have
them you have to choose which one to use, e.g. amongst amulets: reflection, drain resistance, or flying (or life saving if you feel the necessity for it).
Janis
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