I've always been under the impression that me playing without pets is a handicap as pets are so powerful.
But what if that's wrong?
What if actually PLAYING with pets is a handicap?
Pets
Downsides:
1. Take up your food making starvation/low food an issue.
2. Twice as many turns to accomplish things (or more).
3. Picks up items you might not want picked up.
4. May attack peacefuls that you don't want attacked.
5. Death of pet (if relied on) leaves you in precarious position.
6. Wild goose chases after pets can lead to precarious situations.
7. Frustration with pets can lead to bad play.
8. Death of pet can lead to negative mental attitude of the player.
Upsides:
1. Curse testing by pet.
2. Stealing from shops.
3. Ability to kill peacefuls with no consequences to alignment/murder.
4. Soaks up damage, effectively increasing your HP.
5. Twice as many attacks on monsters (one attack by you, one attack by pet every turn.)
6. Aids in evasion/running away from dangerous monsters.
7. Polymorph trap/wand/spell can turn them into a powerful ally/monster.
8. Keeps your level low and thus the level of monsters you face low.
9. Super helpful for the Protection racket.
Petless upsides: 1. Because of having more food, ability to altar
camp longer and greater probability of attaining a usable artifact
weapon earlier, thus drastically increasing survival rate.
2. Because of having more food, the extra food consumption by spell
casters is much easier to manage.
3. Because of having more food, waiting on a staircase to heal up is
much more viable.
4. Because of having more food, the extra food consumption for
digging out vaults (and getting more protection) is much more
manageable.
5. Stealing from shops is usually unnecessary because of #4, negating
the advantage of stealing from shops. Most items which are useful
(safe scrolls, special boots/cloaks/gloves) are inexpensive.
6. The dungeon is dangerous. The longer you are in the dungeon, the
more likely hood a YASD or other improbable death is to happen.
Ascending in 1/3 the time reduces YASDs and rare deaths by 2/3rds.
7. Reduced time in the dungeon means that blessed spellbooks will not
go blank before you finish the game.
8. Pets will not go feral and attack you. You will not accidentally
ever kill your pet. Powerful polymorphed pets, (which can be a
danger) will not go feral.
9. You don't have to worry about using artifacts like Cleaver and Stormbringer, which are very powerful.
10. Pets will not pick up and lose/use/take items that you don't want
them to take.
11. Trips to an altar to curse test are fine because you have
additional food. Priests completely negate the advantage of curse
testing with a pet.
12. Elbereth doesn't protect your pet from strong monsters, if you
have no pet, you only need to worry about protecting yourself. You
don't need to worry about "getting away with your pet".
13. You are self reliant and thus suffer no penalty when your pet
dies, and are not vulnerable when your pet dies.
So my conclusion is, what if actually HAVING a pet is the challenge
game, and not having one is easier?
Another consideration is that some of the weaker classes (tourist,
healer, archaeologist) NEEDS a pet for the early levels. I can
certainly agree with that. However I don't think any of the other
roles need pets, and might be stronger without them.
5. Stealing from shops is usually unnecessary because of #4, negatingFor these "inexpensive" items you need some means to BUC-ID them; so
the advantage of stealing from shops. Most items which are useful
(safe scrolls, special boots/cloaks/gloves) are inexpensive.
we're again at pets. But I generally disagree here. Finding and using
items to your advance is the key to proceed and survive in Nethack.
Tools, amulets and rings, wands, scrolls and potions, all important,
and the pets not only get these for you, they also BUC-test the items
right away.
6. The dungeon is dangerous. The longer you are in the dungeon, theThis makes no sense to me. Staying longer, advancing not too fast,
more likely hood a YASD or other improbable death is to happen.
Ascending in 1/3 the time reduces YASDs and rare deaths by 2/3rds.
means that you can prepare yourself better. But it depends on the
actual game, the role played, the findings, how you proceed, where
to slow down or camp, when to go forth and back, or whether to only
hurry forward.
Pets
Downsides:
1. Take up your food making starvation/low food an issue.
4. May attack peacefuls that you don't want attacked.
Chris Bowers <magicbymccauley@yahoo.com> writes:
Pets
Downsides:
1. Take up your food making starvation/low food an issue.
Also, they often eat intrinsic-giving monsters that you'd want for
yourself.
First you play many levels without any floating eye leaving a corpse,
then you ONCE forget to wait for your pet to step away before throwing
the next dagger that kills it, THEN your pet steps in and munches the
corpse you've really been looking for.
4. May attack peacefuls that you don't want attacked.
And wakes up nymphs and leprechauns that you'd like to leave asleep
until you are prepared to take care of them. Not so big a deal with a
single leprechaun, but more nuisance in a leprechaun hall..
Tools are so cheap that there's no reason to even steal them.
The most expensive one is a bag of holding for 100 gold?
Amulets sure but
amulets in shops are rare. Wands you can test for a nominal charge by
the shopkeeper (engrave in dust, Engrave with wand, pay usage fee of
50 gold).
Scrolls you shouldn't buy anything over 100.
Anything under 100 gold is safe to read,
the others will have to wait till later
(till you have more gold anyway, or are doing a bulk identify).
Potions? Not super important. You can drink them unidentified I guess
but they can have bad effects.
Rings, yes. Ring shops are really rare
and you won't know what any of the rings do, except what you try on.
I do this with a stack of holy water and try on all the rings in the
shop. The most game changing items are armor, which are never that
expensive for magical boots, helms, and cloaks.
An altar is minetown
is guaranteed for curse testing items. So yes a pet is helpful here
but you may be overestimating its helpfulness.
If it's stealing stuff
you don't want to drink or read yet anyway, then it's no biggie.
Personally, I don't find stealing via teleport to be a big fat deal
at all. Keystone Kops are not usually very threatening to anyone who
has an artifact weapon. Angry shopkeepers can be avoided kind of
easily.
6. The dungeon is dangerous. The longer you are in the dungeon,This makes no sense to me. Staying longer, advancing not too fast,
the more likely hood a YASD or other improbable death is to
happen. Ascending in 1/3 the time reduces YASDs and rare deaths
by 2/3rds.
means that you can prepare yourself better. But it depends on the
actual game, the role played, the findings, how you proceed, where
to slow down or camp, when to go forth and back, or whether to
only hurry forward.
Two categories for this: Rare Deaths, and Player Errors. There are
rare deaths, like that time a troll picked up a cockatrice corpse and
hit me with it. That was rare, and the longer the game the more
chance that something rare and dangerous can happen. The more turns?
The more monsters you face, the more chests you can open which can be trapped, the more times you risk accidentally putting a wand of
cancellation in your bag of holding, the more chance there could be a cockatrice in a pit you fall in and so forth. Those are rare deaths.
On 18.01.2022 11:52, Chris Bowers wrote:
Tools are so cheap that there's no reason to even steal them.
Early game when we take most advantage of the items gold is usually
scarce (in my games at least). YMMV.
Early on mithril is usually not affordable for my characters. Often
I have to leave back a helm of 50/75, and the gauntlets and boots
of that price category I certainly want pet-tested before I try to
put them on.
The point is to arrange the stuff in the shop in a way so that the
pet will quickly just take and deliver you the stuff of interest.
Personally, I don't find stealing via teleport to be a big fat deal
at all. Keystone Kops are not usually very threatening to anyone who
has an artifact weapon. Angry shopkeepers can be avoided kind of
easily.
Not worth the hassle, especially if you have a pet.
In Slashem there's Sam's Black Market, a bigroom full of items of
ass sorts and *extremely* expensive. Pets won't follow you through
the portal. Nonetheless I have methods to rob the shop using pets,
because it's worth to let them steal that expensive stuff for you.
Am 18.01.2022 um 18:19 schrieb Janis Papanagnou:
In Slashem there's Sam's Black Market, a bigroom full of items of
ass sorts and *extremely* expensive. Pets won't follow you through
the portal. Nonetheless I have methods to rob the shop using pets,
because it's worth to let them steal that expensive stuff for you.
Yes. For a non-chaotic, killing him/her is not an option. I wait until I
can tame a pet (that is, a dog or cat is created at which I throw a
tripe ration)
or get in there with a figurine. Then I drop some diamonds/rubies/emeralds/sapphires to get credit and let my pet pick
them up while standing in the doorway with a magic whistle. I whistle
until they land out of the shop and wait until they drop the gems for
me. Rinse and repeat. This can get you quite some overpriced items.
The approach of having your pet kill him is difficult. Even a solar will
not always be able to hit Sam after being created from a figurine. So essentially all of the solar's hits will miss and some of Sam's won't,
until the solar is gone. A giant shoggoth could instakill him but again
will not attack him due to the level difference.
On 23.01.2022 22:18, Klaus Kassner wrote:Yes.
Am 18.01.2022 um 18:19 schrieb Janis Papanagnou:
In Slashem there's Sam's Black Market, a bigroom full of items of
ass sorts and *extremely* expensive. Pets won't follow you through
the portal. Nonetheless I have methods to rob the shop using pets,
because it's worth to let them steal that expensive stuff for you.
Yes. For a non-chaotic, killing him/her is not an option. I wait until I
can tame a pet (that is, a dog or cat is created at which I throw a
tripe ration)
Or a horse.
a sack if a BoH isn't available) to fill it as much as possible toThat is also a possibility, of course. Maybe even more efficient.
speed things up.
But above a weight of 50 the smaller types of cats
and dogs won't lift the container, so I try to get a big domestic pet.
A sack/bag is also helpful to get the interesting cursed items as well;
once you have got the many items you can uncurse all objects at once.
or get in there with a figurine. Then I drop some
diamonds/rubies/emeralds/sapphires to get credit and let my pet pick
them up while standing in the doorway with a magic whistle. I whistle
until they land out of the shop and wait until they drop the gems for
me. Rinse and repeat. This can get you quite some overpriced items.
If I cannot find an appropriate pet at the Black Market I try to find
one outside that branch, kill it, take its corpse through the portal,
revive it with undead turning, tame it, and start the robbery.
It's also possible, I seem to recall, to tame an appropriate random
monster there. (But don't try to tame the peaceful inhabitants; must
be quite fatal, if I recall the Wiki correctly.)
The approach of having your pet kill him is difficult. Even a solar will
not always be able to hit Sam after being created from a figurine. So
essentially all of the solar's hits will miss and some of Sam's won't,
until the solar is gone. A giant shoggoth could instakill him but again
will not attack him due to the level difference.
It never occurred to me to kill Sam or let him get killed by a pet.
He's described as so dangerous that I take the much simpler robbery
approach.
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