So, I sacrificed many corpses at an aligned altar and finally got Frost
Brand. But I was a little tired and got kind of excited and tried to
hurry and read several blessed enchant weapon scrolls to get it up to +6
or +7.

I picked up four uncursed enchant weapon scrolls and what I thought was
a blessed potion of water which I dipped the scrolls into. Next thing I
know it says something about the scrolls fading. Yikes! I must have
picked up uncursed water in my haste.

Moral of the story is do not play while tired or in a hurry. I ended up
burning some charges on a magic marker to write more scrolls but it was
a waste of resources.

Oh well.

Bobby

p.s. This is my long running 3.6.1 game on NAO. I am getting close. I
have the castle wand and am trying to get ready for the rest of the game.

--
https://www.bobbydurrettdba.com/nethackgame/

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On 27.12.2020 04:27, Bobby Durrett wrote:

Moral of the story is do not play while tired or in a hurry.

Very true.

If only I had remembered your post a couple minutes ago.

Playing a chaotic undead slayer doppelganger, both (role and race)
for the first time, with HP:420, AC:-55. As usual scared about the
Plane of Air with all the Solars, Planetars, and Archons summoning
more of them. Put on a ring of conflict before entering the plane.
Teleported away the first Archon and Planetar. But they quickly
came close again and also summon from distance already. Wished for
a chickatrice corpse, but obviously too late; I got surrounded by
many of these major angelic beings. It turned out that it was not a
good decision to zap a wand of teleport in the direction of two of
the most dangerous ones, since I was dead the next turn. Should have
broken this wand instead, to have a slight chance of surviving.

Well, yes, it was 5am and I was obviously too tired for the correct
decisions and appropriate preparations.

For non-Lawfuls the Slashem endgame is really a pain; I am tempted
to say that its impossible, but somehow I see a couple ascensions
in my logfile. (Must do some analysis.)

Maybe I've already asked that in the past; but what do experienced
Slashem players to lead non-Lawfuls past the Plane of Air?

Janis

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On Saturday, December 26, 2020 at 11:46:02 PM UTC-5, Janis wrote:

On 27.12.2020 04:27, Bobby Durrett wrote:

Moral of the story is do not play while tired or in a hurry.

Very true.

If only I had remembered your post a couple minutes ago.

...

For non-Lawfuls the Slashem endgame is really a pain; I am tempted
to say that its impossible, but somehow I see a couple ascensions
in my logfile. (Must do some analysis.)

Maybe I've already asked that in the past; but what do experienced
Slashem players to lead non-Lawfuls past the Plane of Air?

Honestly, I can't say I ever noticed that it was particularly difficult; I think Water is the one I like least. I'm basically always doing the
endgame Burdened (I carry lots of gems and artifacts) but very fast,
and I pretty much just pop into a plane, read a cursed scroll of
confuse monster, read a non-cursed scroll of gold detection, apply
my blessed unicorn horn (bad to forget this step), and then move to
the exit at best possible speed, dodging around monsters as much
as possible, or leaving them to my pets. (Which means one or more
magic whistlings once at the exit.)

On the Plane of Water, this is difficult due to the exit moving around,
and I sometimes have to change up my gear to avoid being
krakenated and thus don't have boots of speed on. On Earth, I'm
burning out wands of digging as I go. I usually have plenty of wands
of teleportation and death ready for the others and Astral, but
sometimes I go with my +5 submachine gun and plenty of +7 bullets.
A single Archon/Planetar/Solar isn't usually terribly challenging once
the blindfold is on, though getting surrounded by fire elementals can
be problematic. In some cases, though, it's just food for a giant
shoggoth, or a few dozen rounds of ammo spent.

If you're really worried about celestials, I'd make a point of getting the
Eyes of the Overworld whenever possible.

Hope that helps,
Alex

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On 02.01.2021 23:12, wumpus wrote:

On Saturday, December 26, 2020 at 11:46:02 PM UTC-5, Janis wrote:
...

For non-Lawfuls the Slashem endgame is really a pain; I am tempted
to say that its impossible, but somehow I see a couple ascensions
in my logfile. (Must do some analysis.)

I've done some analysis based on my game logs (considering HP, AC,
XL, healthstones, and number of genocided monsters) for the three
alignments but I cannot see any significant difference. (So maybe
it was just bad luck that I've got these summoning storms?)

Maybe I've already asked that in the past; but what do experienced
Slashem players to lead non-Lawfuls past the Plane of Air?

Honestly, I can't say I ever noticed that it was particularly difficult; I think Water is the one I like least. I'm basically always doing the
endgame Burdened (I carry lots of gems and artifacts) but very fast,
and I pretty much just pop into a plane, read a cursed scroll of
confuse monster, read a non-cursed scroll of gold detection, apply
my blessed unicorn horn (bad to forget this step), and then move to
the exit at best possible speed, dodging around monsters as much
as possible, or leaving them to my pets. (Which means one or more
magic whistlings once at the exit.)

Our procedures and states (speed, carried loot, being burdend) are
about the same. (I get the confusion from casting worn-out spells.)

On the Plane of Water, this is difficult due to the exit moving around,
and I sometimes have to change up my gear to avoid being
krakenated and thus don't have boots of speed on.

In the [Nethack-]past I rarely bothered with those krakens, but in
Slashem I usually just genocide all sea creatures; not because they
are tougher than in Nethack but because the endgame is all in all
more difficult and I want my attention be concentrated on one item
less.

On Earth, I'm
burning out wands of digging as I go. I usually have plenty of wands
of teleportation and death ready for the others and Astral,

Wands of teleportation are very important; I use them as a primary
means to handle Astral, but they can also be valuable on Air. Earth
had just once been a (deadly) problem for me; accompanied by a lot
of my minions and the Wizard adjacent he casted a pool of water and
I drowned. (That spell is one reason for the amulet of flying as my distinguished amulet.) On Fire I usually lose (most of) my pets and
minions, but it's usually only an issue if the Wizard appears there.
Sadly there seem to be not that many random wands of teleport being
generated in Slashem; often I have just one or two for the endgame.

but
sometimes I go with my +5 submachine gun and plenty of +7 bullets.

Okay; I never used any of Slashem's military weapons (but grenades)
if only for reasons of style.

A single Archon/Planetar/Solar isn't usually terribly challenging once
the blindfold is on, though getting surrounded by fire elementals can
be problematic.

For me the summoning storms have more than once been a deadly issue.
Being surrounded makes me immobile and if only one other summoner is
amongst these foes the monster crowd grows exponentially. In my games
it's usually also not the elementals that quickly draw my life points
quickly down to the red range, it's these high level angelic beings.

In some cases, though, it's just food for a giant
shoggoth, or a few dozen rounds of ammo spent.

Can you please explain this point; I'm not sure whether you speak about
pet shoggoths, conflicting shoggoths, or something else.

Since I've died from [giant] shoggoths in the past (once even at the
Plane of Air) I tend to genocide them along with all the other 'P'
(green slime, etc.).

If you're really worried about celestials, I'd make a point of getting the Eyes of the Overworld whenever possible.

As I've done in Nethack I also don't wish for artifacts in Slashem, so
this won't work for me. (As I understand the protection is also meant
to protect from the Angel's gaze? Which seems not be my primary problem compared to the huge damage they deal and the summoning catastrophe.)

Hope that helps,

Yes. It's always good to hear experiences from other players. So I can
rule out some factors and consider new strategies and tactics. Thanks.

Janis

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On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 9:20:10 PM UTC-5, Janis wrote:

On 02.01.2021 23:12, wumpus wrote:

On Saturday, December 26, 2020 at 11:46:02 PM UTC-5, Janis wrote:
but
sometimes I go with my +5 submachine gun and plenty of +7 bullets.

Okay; I never used any of Slashem's military weapons (but grenades)
if only for reasons of style.

Fair enough, but the submachine gun in particular is almost as effective
as a wand of death, and works on death-resistant creatures, including
Death. Note that I usually restrict the enchantment on the SMG to +5 to
reduce the number of rounds fired, as I don't usually need the max, and
don't want to burn extra ammo.

A single Archon/Planetar/Solar isn't usually terribly challenging once
the blindfold is on, though getting surrounded by fire elementals can
be problematic.

For me the summoning storms have more than once been a deadly issue.
Being surrounded makes me immobile and if only one other summoner is
amongst these foes the monster crowd grows exponentially. In my games
it's usually also not the elementals that quickly draw my life points
quickly down to the red range, it's these high level angelic beings.

The problem I'm alluding to is not damage from the fire elementals, it's
being pinned by invisible to telepathy creatures with something nasty
whacking on me while I'm blindfolded to avoid being stunned. It's very
hard to escape, even with wands of teleportation, if you can't tell which squares are empty.

In some cases, though, it's just food for a giant
shoggoth, or a few dozen rounds of ammo spent.

Can you please explain this point; I'm not sure whether you speak about
pet shoggoths, conflicting shoggoths, or something else.

Since I've died from [giant] shoggoths in the past (once even at the
Plane of Air) I tend to genocide them along with all the other 'P'
(green slime, etc.).

It's relatively easy to avoid being killed by shoggoths - always have a wand
of digging handy. Alternatively, and much more powerfully, always have
the charm monster spell available. Pet giant shoggoths are fairly high maintenance - they disappear as soon as you get onto a level, and you
have to remember to whistle them to you when you change level (and
use a blindfold to make sure they actually followed) - but they are ridiculously powerful in combat. Just whistle them next to you, and there's
a good chance that your problem is solved.

EDIT: Apparently shoggoths can't hit anything that requires enchanted
weapons to hit? So they're not going to beat celestials. They will eat
pretty much anything else, including the Wizard.

Another pet alternative that I like for the planes is gugs. They're much
less dangerous to reverse genocide, and they are very sturdy, so they can
be used as a buffer between you and something nasty if you can open up
a little space. Both gugs and shoggoths are easy to charm.

If you're really worried about celestials, I'd make a point of getting the Eyes of the Overworld whenever possible.

As I've done in Nethack I also don't wish for artifacts in Slashem, so
this won't work for me. (As I understand the protection is also meant
to protect from the Angel's gaze? Which seems not be my primary problem compared to the huge damage they deal and the summoning catastrophe.)

I guess what I'm saying is that the summoning storms aren't usually the
problem on the wide open Plane of Air - it's getting pinned. If you can see where you're going without being stunned, then you can usually navigate
around a knot of nasties, or at least choose your death/teleportation lines wisely. If you're stunned or blind and facing invisible elementals, you can't even reliably figure out how screwed you are.

Hope that helps,
Alex

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