• Re: Turning the door invisible

    From mike@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 11 21:00:15 2023
    It's Invisibility, not Invisibility plus Minor Illusion. You can see through invisible objects. That's what it means to be invisible. Any other interpretation adds capabilities to the spell that don't exist in the rules, and can't be adjudicated
    consistently.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 13 08:13:15 2023
    On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 21:00:15 -0700 (PDT), mike <mrosskne@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It's Invisibility, not Invisibility plus Minor Illusion.
    You can see through invisible objects. That's what it means
    to be invisible. Any other interpretation adds capabilities
    to the spell that don't exist in the rules, and can't be
    adjudicated consistently.

    How fun to revive a twenty-two year old debate! https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.frp.dnd/c/7QYF7v2NUlc if you
    want to catch up ;-)


    Anyway, it all depends on the edition you're playing. If we go by RAW
    and look at the spell descriptions in the various Player Handbooks:

    - OD&D (White Box) says "a person or thing"

    - D&D Basic (Holmes, Moldvay, BECMI, Cyclopedia) had an effect on "one
    creature or object" ("any person or object" in Holmes)

    - AD&D 1st & 2nd Edition specify the area of effect is "1 creature".

    - D&D 3rd Edition also targets the spell at a 'creature'

    - 3.5 Edition specifies "1 creature or object"

    - 4th Edition says "You or one creature".

    - 5th Edition also specifies "creature" (the number is variable).

    So if you are playing OD&D, D&D Basic, or 3.5th Edition, your spell
    can affect the door. Otherwise, the spell is ineffective because it
    only affects creatures.

    Well, unless the door is alive, I suppose. And, strangely, when cast
    on a creature it DOES affect anything they are wearing or carrying.
    Still, most editions are fairly specific that the spell only works on
    living things, and not inanimate objects.

    But if you happen to be playing the appropriate edition and the spell
    does work, you should be able to see through the door. Arguably there
    are spells in the other editions that can make objects invisible, but
    these are not the same thing as the 2nd level spell the players in
    question were using.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Sun Aug 13 16:55:06 2023
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

    On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 21:00:15 -0700 (PDT), mike <mrosskne@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It's Invisibility, not Invisibility plus Minor Illusion.
    You can see through invisible objects. That's what it means
    to be invisible. Any other interpretation adds capabilities
    to the spell that don't exist in the rules, and can't be
    adjudicated consistently.

    How fun to revive a twenty-two year old debate! https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.frp.dnd/c/7QYF7v2NUlc if you
    want to catch up ;-)


    Anyway, it all depends on the edition you're playing. If we go by RAW
    and look at the spell descriptions in the various Player Handbooks:

    - OD&D (White Box) says "a person or thing"

    - D&D Basic (Holmes, Moldvay, BECMI, Cyclopedia) had an effect on "one creature or object" ("any person or object" in Holmes)

    - AD&D 1st & 2nd Edition specify the area of effect is "1 creature".

    - D&D 3rd Edition also targets the spell at a 'creature'

    - 3.5 Edition specifies "1 creature or object"

    - 4th Edition says "You or one creature".

    - 5th Edition also specifies "creature" (the number is variable).

    So if you are playing OD&D, D&D Basic, or 3.5th Edition, your spell
    can affect the door. Otherwise, the spell is ineffective because it
    only affects creatures.

    It seems that for the other editions, the spell can be used as a mimic
    detector in a pinch.


    john

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From gbbgu@21:1/5 to mike on Mon Aug 14 04:52:54 2023
    On 12 Aug 2023, mike wrote:

    It's Invisibility, not Invisibility plus Minor Illusion. You can see through invisible objects. That's what it means to be invisible. Any other interpretation adds capabilities to the spell that don't exist in the rules, and can't be adjudicated consistently.

    I wouldn't have a problem with my players doing this, I think it's pretty creative.

    I would rule the door becomes see-through and not create an illusion based on the expectation of what was in the room, but don't forget that any monsters inside the room can now see out through the (currently solid but weaker than you hopped) door...

    --
    gbbgu

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)