• Re: The Dungeons & Dragons TV show from the director of Red Notice is r

    From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to taustinca@gmail.com on Sat Jan 14 12:43:02 2023
    On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 10:16:54 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

    I'm certain it will live up to the standards of the various movies.
    You know, the garbage.

    What a *stupid* idea.

    The problem with a D&D TV show is that - as a source for narrative -
    D&D is boring.

    I'm not saying the games we play are boring (I wouldn't still be
    reading a nearly empty Usenet newsgroup after all these years if that
    were the case ;-) but that D&D, alone, lacks the structure and
    character for an interesting movie.

    Sure, you can take elements from the game - regenerating trolls,
    wizards who memorize spells on a daily basis, heroes who plunder
    ancient tombs - and work them into a story... but then you've got a
    fantasy movie that happens to use D&D tropes. It's not the D&D stuff
    that really makes that movie interesting; it's everything around it:
    the stories, the setting, the characters. I mean, if you look at a lot
    of D&D games we play, they rip off movies and TV shows incessantly
    because D&D, itself, isn't that interesting.

    Now, were Wizards to license some of its IPs - Dragonlance, Gord the
    Rogue*, Planescape, Spelljammer - then we might get an interesting
    movie or TV series. But that never seems to be the case. Instead we
    get a generic fantasy movie - usually written by the cheapest hack
    they could find and then tailored to fit the broadest audience - that
    has some recognizable features from D&D taped onto it.

    Don't get me wrong. I think D&D is great, but it's just a framework.
    It's a great framework upon which to build fun game experiences. But
    it is like the easel upon which great works are painted. But nobody
    goes to look at easels in a museum. Yet it seems as if that's what
    Wizards wants, and then they're surprised when their efforts are in
    vain.


    TL;DR: I expect the TV show to be a flop too. ;-)




    * yes, I know, Wizards doesn't actually own Gord the Rogue. I still
    consider it a D&D property though, because those books really captured
    the ideal of early D&D ;-)

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  • From Ninapenda Jibini@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Sat Jan 14 18:27:13 2023
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote in news:pdp5shhhn8tavnskh5h6bkr4phvoed1rl6@4ax.com:

    On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 10:16:54 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
    Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

    I'm certain it will live up to the standards of the various
    movies. You know, the garbage.

    What a *stupid* idea.

    The problem with a D&D TV show is that - as a source for
    narrative - D&D is boring.

    And the very things that make a roleplaying game good (to
    participate in) make for a boring spectator experience.

    And yet, there are some *very* pospular "watch us play while you
    eat Cheetos" Youtube channels.

    I'm not saying the games we play are boring (I wouldn't still be
    reading a nearly empty Usenet newsgroup after all these years if
    that were the case ;-) but that D&D, alone, lacks the structure
    and character for an interesting movie.

    Couldn't agree more.

    Sure, you can take elements from the game - regenerating trolls,
    wizards who memorize spells on a daily basis, heroes who plunder
    ancient tombs - and work them into a story... but then you've
    got a fantasy movie that happens to use D&D tropes. It's not the
    D&D stuff that really makes that movie interesting; it's
    everything around it: the stories, the setting, the characters.
    I mean, if you look at a lot of D&D games we play, they rip off
    movies and TV shows incessantly because D&D, itself, isn't that
    interesting.

    So far, we really have no idea what it will be like. It could be
    "generic fantasy with D&D tropes," or it could be about a game and
    its playes (with lots of personal drama, no doubt (like the Youtube
    channels)), or it could be something truly godawful like Quag Keep,
    with players sucked into the D&D world.

    Whatever they do, I'm confident it will suck.

    Now, were Wizards to license some of its IPs - Dragonlance, Gord
    the Rogue*, Planescape, Spelljammer - then we might get an
    interesting movie or TV series. But that never seems to be the
    case. Instead we get a generic fantasy movie - usually written
    by the cheapest hack they could find and then tailored to fit
    the broadest audience - that has some recognizable features from
    D&D taped onto it.

    It is possible they're licensing one of their settings, but rumor
    has it everybody involved so far are third rate hacks who failed at
    film class in high school.

    Don't get me wrong. I think D&D is great, but it's just a
    framework. It's a great framework upon which to build fun game
    experiences. But it is like the easel upon which great works are
    painted. But nobody goes to look at easels in a museum. Yet it
    seems as if that's what Wizards wants, and then they're
    surprised when their efforts are in vain.

    People with no experience with movie and television production (and
    the business practices involved) almost always a) end up with
    garbage, and b) lose all their money. (Marvel is a notable
    exception, but they had prior experience that was more typical.)
    (And Hasbro has some experience with this kind of failure. Remember
    the Battleship movie? Which lost Universal and Hasbro $150 million?
    Not only are they clueless, they don't learn.)


    TL;DR: I expect the TV show to be a flop too. ;-)

    I fully expect it to go beyond flop, and into spectacular flop. It
    won't manage "so bad it's good," but it might reach that rarified
    realm beyond it of "so bad it's just *bad*," like Alien Apocalypse
    and Man With the Screaming Brain (both of which starred Bruce
    Campbell, the absolute kind of "so bad it's good," and, well, it
    wasn't.)

    --
    Terry Austin

    Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
    Lynn:
    https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


    "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

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  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 20 16:00:26 2023
    On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 13:32:54 -0500, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>

    Aren't there YouTube channels or something with people playing D&D?
    I heard they're fairly popular, or maybe that's just with gamers.

    Yeah, but people aren't really watching them for the D&D ruleset. The
    videos are popular because of the interactions betwen the players and
    the stories they create, not because you need to specifically roll a
    16 to hit a particular armor class or because trolls have a Perception
    +2 skill.

    Now, people certainly may have a preference to watch people play D&D
    games versus, say, Rollmaster* but that's due to a familiarity with
    the system and because D&D lends itself to a certain style of gameplay
    and setting. So D&D is a guide, but not of interest itself (at least
    not to people watching).**

    SO I can't get excited about a "D&D movie/TV series" because the "D&D"
    part isn't that interesting; it will stand on (or fail) on everythign
    around that license: it's characters, its setting, its story, its
    acting, etc. But, man, I'd go for a Spelljammer movie...





    * Ohmigod, I'd love to see a Rollmaster campaign online. It'd take
    three videos just to get past character creation, tee-hee ;-)
    ** that said, I'm sure some people watch to see/compare how well the
    rules are being applied because there is ALWAYS an exception to the
    rule. ;-)

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