• Re: D&D 6th Edition announced (but they're calling it One D&D for now)

    From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 21 15:33:59 2022
    On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 21:07:13 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
    wrote:

    Today at Wizards Presents, Wizards of the Coast announced that the next >generation of Dungeons & Dragons(opens in new tab) is on its way via a >massive public playtest called One D&D. This will include a revision of
    the core rulebooks: The Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and >Monster Manual. This update will come alongside an offical digital
    toolset and virtual tabletop for D&D.(opens in new tab)


    Well, aside from the stupid name (right up there with Microsoft's
    "XBox One" and the problems they've had since differentiating the
    'original' XBone with its successors), I've no problem with this. As
    pointed out, it's not our first rodeo with regards to new editions
    (it's not even our sixth; what is it really, the tenth?*)

    Anyway, it's too early to judge the merits of this new edition - will
    it be an exciting revival (and arguable improvement) like 3rd, or more
    like the much maligned and forgotten 4th edition? We'll find out, but
    until its out it's all a moot point anyway.

    And it's not like I just won't keep using an older edition anyway. ;-)

    Though, really... "D&D One"? What's wrong with 6th Edition, Wizards?
    Don't be ashamed of your heritage!


    * White Box, Basic, BECMI, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3.5th, 4th, 5th, 6th)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ironstaff@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Sun Aug 21 18:47:12 2022
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 3:34:07 PM UTC-4, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 21:07:13 -0400, Ubiquitous <web...@polaris.net>
    wrote:
    Today at Wizards Presents, Wizards of the Coast announced that the next >generation of Dungeons & Dragons(opens in new tab) is on its way via a >massive public playtest called One D&D. This will include a revision of >the core rulebooks: The Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and >Monster Manual. This update will come alongside an offical digital
    toolset and virtual tabletop for D&D.(opens in new tab)
    Well, aside from the stupid name (right up there with Microsoft's
    "XBox One" and the problems they've had since differentiating the
    'original' XBone with its successors), I've no problem with this. As
    pointed out, it's not our first rodeo with regards to new editions
    (it's not even our sixth; what is it really, the tenth?*)

    Anyway, it's too early to judge the merits of this new edition - will
    it be an exciting revival (and arguable improvement) like 3rd, or more
    like the much maligned and forgotten 4th edition? We'll find out, but
    until its out it's all a moot point anyway.

    And it's not like I just won't keep using an older edition anyway. ;-)

    Though, really... "D&D One"? What's wrong with 6th Edition, Wizards?
    Don't be ashamed of your heritage!


    * White Box, Basic, BECMI, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3.5th, 4th, 5th, 6th)

    Someone on Instagram asked how folks felt about the announcement. And I replied, 'Indifference?'. I've read 5th and it left me cold. Stat caps? Really? 3.5 is still my favorite official edition of D&D. But my preference for high fantasy is Pathfinder 1st
    edition followed by Radiance and Everstone (BESM D20). I'm sure I'll look at One at some point.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Chmelik@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Mon Aug 22 03:36:26 2022
    On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 15:33:59 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    [...]
    Well, aside from the stupid name (right up there with Microsoft's "XBox
    One" and the problems they've had since differentiating the 'original'
    XBone with its successors), I've no problem with this. As pointed out,
    it's not our first rodeo with regards to new editions (it's not even our sixth; what is it really, the tenth?*)
    [...]
    * White Box, Basic, BECMI, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3.5th, 4th, 5th, 6th)

    Weren't there initially four to seven that included basic: original brown
    and maybe white boxes (with JRR Tolkien's material), white box (without
    JRR Tolkien), blue basic book, another blue basic book/box, (one had chits
    and another had dice), first red basic book (followed by first blue
    expert, B/X), second red basic book/box (and second blue expert) starting BECMI, Rules Cyclopedia? Of course original/brown/white boxes had same
    rules (just names changed) and the second (blue) rules probably are same
    (just changed randomizer) but there were two distinct B/X sets with
    different rules (first denoted B/X, second starting BECMI) and BECMI was altered by Rules Cylcopedia (so all these are different editions). After
    that (while AD&D was switching from 1st to 2nd ed) there were a few more beginner plain & advanced sets though maybe didn't change rules.
    Wikipedia.org has a list of editions somewhere but can't always be
    trusted.

    Ignoring name changes from JRR Tolkien's to generic, it seems to me more
    like minimum 11 editions exist (6th might be 12th). Some people also
    count AD&D 2.5 ed (because though was backwards-compatible new rules, not everyone switched).

    What I like about the borwn/white, blue, B/X, BECMI, Rules Cyclopedia,
    AD&D 1st & 2nd ed sets is they're all backwards-compatible with minimal
    changes and don't remove much/anything with maybe sole exception AD&D 2nd
    ed started removals by removing monk, etc... 3rd ed copied simplistic video-games and removed most professions/skills (though I've heard may be backwards-compatible through 3.5 ed) so I doubt I ever played it and
    don't plan to play anything newer (though 3rd ed was interesting by making
    two parts of ability scores so may be nice to get core books anyway but
    besides additions mostly use old rules).

    What I mean by backwards-compatible is for example you could choose a
    plain D&D elf class in AD&D, which would be almost identical to fighter/ magician elf except advance different rates, but faster-advancing one also
    gets disadvantages. This is how old editions were designed (I'm not
    talking about obvious stuff like plain D&D vs AD&D armour class differed
    by one which is trivial) but later editions aren't as backwards-
    compatible. There are entire articles on backwards-compatibility
    somewhere on WWW, and friends and I used the feature in 1990s.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to dchmelik@gmail.com on Mon Aug 22 18:24:17 2022
    On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 03:36:26 -0000 (UTC), David Chmelik
    <dchmelik@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 15:33:59 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    [...]
    Well, aside from the stupid name (right up there with Microsoft's "XBox
    One" and the problems they've had since differentiating the 'original'
    XBone with its successors), I've no problem with this. As pointed out,
    it's not our first rodeo with regards to new editions (it's not even our
    sixth; what is it really, the tenth?*)
    [...]
    * White Box, Basic, BECMI, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3.5th, 4th, 5th, 6th)

    Heheh. I knew that comment would start a discussion! ;-)

    Weren't there initially four to seven that included basic: original brown
    and maybe white boxes (with JRR Tolkien's material), white box (without
    JRR Tolkien), blue basic book, another blue basic book/box, (one had chits >and another had dice), first red basic book (followed by first blue
    expert, B/X), second red basic book/box (and second blue expert) starting >BECMI, Rules Cyclopedia? Of course original/brown/white boxes had same
    rules (just names changed) and the second (blue) rules probably are same >(just changed randomizer) but there were two distinct B/X sets with
    different rules (first denoted B/X, second starting BECMI) and BECMI was >altered by Rules Cylcopedia (so all these are different editions). After >that (while AD&D was switching from 1st to 2nd ed) there were a few more >beginner plain & advanced sets though maybe didn't change rules. >Wikipedia.org has a list of editions somewhere but can't always be
    trusted.

    Ignoring name changes from JRR Tolkien's to generic, it seems to me more
    like minimum 11 editions exist (6th might be 12th). Some people also
    count AD&D 2.5 ed (because though was backwards-compatible new rules, not >everyone switched).


    Where you draw the distinction between editions is a something on
    which people will all have different opinions. I - for instance -
    wouldn't consider the OD&D print-runs to be separate, although
    "Supplement 3: Blackmoor" added enough new material (Clerics, Thieves,
    changes to levels, hit locations, new monsters, and the whole concept
    of published adventures that was missing from the original rules) that
    there is arguable cause to do so (call it 0.5 Edition). And even
    before that, we have "Chainmail", to which D&D owes so much; do we
    count that as the -1 Edition? ;-P

    Basic/BECMI is another entire can-of-worms. I consider Holme's
    original B/X version distinct enough from Moldavay's version, but
    roll-up Moldavay's original version into BECMI even though he had
    nothing to do with the Companion, Master & Immortal Sets. Similarly, I
    don't see the Rules Cyclopedia as different enough; for the most part
    it is a streamlining and clarification of existing rules.

    AD&D is a bit more straightforward, although some see "Unearthed
    Arcana" as AD&D v1.5. Still, it does require the original 1E books to
    play, so it isn't really so new. A similar thing happened with AD&D
    2nd Ed, with the changes in its 'revised' edition, although - again -
    that was mostly just repackaging material already introduced in
    previous PHBR and DMGR supplements. Indeed, the largest changes were
    in the new "Players Options" supplements, which still required the 2E
    PHB and DMG (original or revised) to play. So are they really new
    editions? I don't think so.

    And we're not even out of the TSR era! Where do we classify things
    like "The Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game Box Set", the "New Easy to
    Master Dungeons & Dragons Game" or even "First Quest" and the "Fast
    Play" rules, each of which were slightly modified versions of existing
    rules? I personally roll them up into either Basic or AD&D 2nd Ed. for simplicity's sake.

    Wizards of the Coast kept things slightly simpler, but even there we
    have complications. 3.5E is officially considered a distinct from 3E,
    even though it's largely a tweaking and rebalancing of existing rules.
    Was the "D&D Miniatures Game" part of 4E, its own edition, or a
    spin-off? I vote the latter but there's argument to be made for each
    option. Meanwhile, their various 'starter' editions often tweaked the
    rules to make the game easier for new users to grasp and thus could -
    by the pedantic - be seen as games separate unto themselves. And there
    have been a lot of starter sets...

    I'm generally happy with my count of ten editions (including 6E); if
    you think 12 is more accurate, that's fine too. But between the two of
    us we've pointed out enough differences that could arguably push that
    number upwards of 20... and I'm sure that some people might argue for
    more. Just the fact that players (and even the publisher!) have
    decimalized their counts of the edition shows how complicated the
    whole situation has become and how there is no real 'right' answer...

    ... except that it definitely wasn't just six ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From azothath@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 26 21:12:17 2022
    that's nice.
    Pathfinder did a second edition (PF2) and it is a different model with a more game play focused mechanics than trying to model anything realistic.
    WotC pays better than Paizo so it should keep game designers busy and employed which is a good thing creating new and better products for you to purchase.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From kyonshi@21:1/5 to azothath on Tue Nov 29 10:32:21 2022
    On 27/11/2022 06:12, azothath wrote:
    that's nice.
    Pathfinder did a second edition (PF2) and it is a different model with a more game play focused mechanics than trying to model anything realistic.
    WotC pays better than Paizo so it should keep game designers busy and employed which is a good thing creating new and better products for you to purchase.


    Considering Hasbro seems to struggle one has to hope that doesn't spell something bad for DND

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From azothath@21:1/5 to gmk...@gmail.com on Wed Nov 30 21:08:37 2022
    On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 4:32:24 AM UTC-5, gmk...@gmail.com wrote:
    On 27/11/2022 06:12, azothath wrote:
    that's nice.
    Pathfinder did a second edition (PF2) and it is a different model with a more game play focused mechanics than trying to model anything realistic.
    WotC pays better than Paizo so it should keep game designers busy and employed which is a good thing creating new and better products for you to purchase.

    Considering Hasbro seems to struggle one has to hope that doesn't spell something bad for DND
    no, IMO they are really developing their own online format so they can offer a subscription service for a virtual tabletop and possibly auto-GM tool... who knows. Paizo attempted this. They look at the success of World of Warcraft etc and wonder why they
    didn't do it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From kyonshi@21:1/5 to azothath on Thu Dec 1 11:04:46 2022
    On 01/12/2022 06:08, azothath wrote:

    no, IMO they are really developing their own online format so they can offer a subscription service for a virtual tabletop and possibly auto-GM tool... who knows. Paizo attempted this. They look at the success of World of Warcraft etc and wonder why
    they didn't do it.

    Because so far they did not really have much success with it. They have
    been dipping their toes into it since at least 3.5. But World of
    Warcraft is far from being as successful as it is right now, and I don't
    think an auto-GM tool ever could work like players actually would want
    it to work.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha@21:1/5 to kyonshi on Thu Dec 1 09:16:03 2022
    kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:tm9u7v$2pb3h$1@dont-email.me:

    On 01/12/2022 06:08, azothath wrote:

    no, IMO they are really developing their own online format so
    they can offer a subscription service for a virtual tabletop
    and possibly auto-GM tool... who knows. Paizo attempted this.
    They look at the success of World of Warcraft etc and wonder
    why they didn't do it.

    Because so far they did not really have much success with it.
    They have been dipping their toes into it since at least 3.5.
    But World of Warcraft is far from being as successful as it is
    right now, and I don't think an auto-GM tool ever could work
    like players actually would want it to work.

    Neverwinter Nights had some success in its day.

    --
    Terry Austin

    "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zaghadka@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 1 14:19:14 2022
    On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:08:37 -0800 (PST), in rec.games.frp.dnd, azothath
    wrote:

    On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 4:32:24 AM UTC-5, gmk...@gmail.com wrote:
    On 27/11/2022 06:12, azothath wrote:
    that's nice.
    Pathfinder did a second edition (PF2) and it is a different model with a more game play focused mechanics than trying to model anything realistic.
    WotC pays better than Paizo so it should keep game designers busy and employed which is a good thing creating new and better products for you to purchase.

    Considering Hasbro seems to struggle one has to hope that doesn't spell
    something bad for DND
    no, IMO they are really developing their own online format so they can offer a subscription service for a virtual tabletop and possibly auto-GM tool... who knows. Paizo attempted this. They look at the success of World of Warcraft etc and wonder why
    they didn't do it.

    Yeah. I think they saw the success of things like Roll20 during the
    pandemic and wanted a piece.

    The thought being "We can do this better."

    And they can. I look forward to never having to align another combat grid again, comms that work, and D&D Beyond character sheets instead of
    crappy, cobbled together community sheets.

    Of course, it's going to cost a lot more money, too. They'll charge for everything they can. And they probably won't include old editions. So I
    may stick with Roll20 anyway.

    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Justisaur@21:1/5 to Zaghadka on Sat Dec 3 11:58:55 2022
    On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:19:15 PM UTC-8, Zaghadka wrote:
    On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:08:37 -0800 (PST), in rec.games.frp.dnd, azothath wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 4:32:24 AM UTC-5, gmk...@gmail.com wrote: >> On 27/11/2022 06:12, azothath wrote:
    that's nice.
    Pathfinder did a second edition (PF2) and it is a different model with a more game play focused mechanics than trying to model anything realistic.
    WotC pays better than Paizo so it should keep game designers busy and employed which is a good thing creating new and better products for you to purchase.

    Considering Hasbro seems to struggle one has to hope that doesn't spell >> something bad for DND
    no, IMO they are really developing their own online format so they can offer a subscription service for a virtual tabletop and possibly auto-GM tool... who knows. Paizo attempted this. They look at the success of World of Warcraft etc and wonder why
    they didn't do it.
    Yeah. I think they saw the success of things like Roll20 during the
    pandemic and wanted a piece.

    The thought being "We can do this better."

    And they can. I look forward to never having to align another combat grid again, comms that work, and D&D Beyond character sheets instead of
    crappy, cobbled together community sheets.

    Of course, it's going to cost a lot more money, too. They'll charge for everything they can. And they probably won't include old editions. So I
    may stick with Roll20 anyway.


    I think there was some talk of them including old editions somewhere
    I saw.

    I'm not entirely sure how probable that would be as there's no agreement
    on how almost anything works in 1e. Though the SSI gold box games
    did a decent job for computer games.

    I don't like the model they have, have given up on 5e, and don't like what
    I'm hearing for 6e, excuse me D&D One.

    - Justisaur

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zaghadka@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 4 00:08:58 2022
    On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 11:58:55 -0800 (PST), in rec.games.frp.dnd, Justisaur
    wrote:

    On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:19:15 PM UTC-8, Zaghadka wrote:
    On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:08:37 -0800 (PST), in rec.games.frp.dnd, azothath
    wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 4:32:24 AM UTC-5, gmk...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On 27/11/2022 06:12, azothath wrote:
    that's nice.
    Pathfinder did a second edition (PF2) and it is a different model with a more game play focused mechanics than trying to model anything realistic.
    WotC pays better than Paizo so it should keep game designers busy and employed which is a good thing creating new and better products for you to purchase.

    Considering Hasbro seems to struggle one has to hope that doesn't spell >> >> something bad for DND
    no, IMO they are really developing their own online format so they can offer a subscription service for a virtual tabletop and possibly auto-GM tool... who knows. Paizo attempted this. They look at the success of World of Warcraft etc and wonder why
    they didn't do it.
    Yeah. I think they saw the success of things like Roll20 during the
    pandemic and wanted a piece.

    The thought being "We can do this better."

    And they can. I look forward to never having to align another combat grid
    again, comms that work, and D&D Beyond character sheets instead of
    crappy, cobbled together community sheets.

    Of course, it's going to cost a lot more money, too. They'll charge for
    everything they can. And they probably won't include old editions. So I
    may stick with Roll20 anyway.


    I think there was some talk of them including old editions somewhere
    I saw.

    I'm not entirely sure how probable that would be as there's no agreement
    on how almost anything works in 1e. Though the SSI gold box games
    did a decent job for computer games.

    No kidding. They'll have to stick to some semblance of core rules to make
    that workable. Problem is, as you imply, 1e had no core rules. It had a
    core set of reference books that everyone cherry picked their house rules
    from. 2e and 3.5e have cores, but so many supplementals that no one will
    be happy with the hatchet job that will need to be taken to them.

    Even if they do it, I don't want it.

    I don't like the model they have, have given up on 5e, and don't like what >I'm hearing for 6e, excuse me D&D One.

    Calling it "D&D One" just feels wrong. D&D was based in Tolkien, right
    down to the original "racial hatred" rules and classes like the Ranger.
    To come full-circle to "One D&D to rule them all" just feels very, very
    weird.

    You'd almost think it was deliberate irony. ;^)

    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From kyonshi@21:1/5 to Zaghadka on Sun Dec 4 09:38:32 2022
    On 04/12/2022 07:08, Zaghadka wrote:
    On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 11:58:55 -0800 (PST), in rec.games.frp.dnd, Justisaur wrote:

    On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:19:15 PM UTC-8, Zaghadka wrote:
    On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:08:37 -0800 (PST), in rec.games.frp.dnd, azothath >>> wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 4:32:24 AM UTC-5, gmk...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> On 27/11/2022 06:12, azothath wrote:
    that's nice.
    Pathfinder did a second edition (PF2) and it is a different model with a more game play focused mechanics than trying to model anything realistic.
    WotC pays better than Paizo so it should keep game designers busy and employed which is a good thing creating new and better products for you to purchase.

    Considering Hasbro seems to struggle one has to hope that doesn't spell >>>>> something bad for DND
    no, IMO they are really developing their own online format so they can offer a subscription service for a virtual tabletop and possibly auto-GM tool... who knows. Paizo attempted this. They look at the success of World of Warcraft etc and wonder why
    they didn't do it.
    Yeah. I think they saw the success of things like Roll20 during the
    pandemic and wanted a piece.

    The thought being "We can do this better."

    And they can. I look forward to never having to align another combat grid >>> again, comms that work, and D&D Beyond character sheets instead of
    crappy, cobbled together community sheets.

    Of course, it's going to cost a lot more money, too. They'll charge for
    everything they can. And they probably won't include old editions. So I
    may stick with Roll20 anyway.


    I think there was some talk of them including old editions somewhere
    I saw.

    I'm not entirely sure how probable that would be as there's no agreement
    on how almost anything works in 1e. Though the SSI gold box games
    did a decent job for computer games.

    No kidding. They'll have to stick to some semblance of core rules to make that workable. Problem is, as you imply, 1e had no core rules. It had a
    core set of reference books that everyone cherry picked their house rules from. 2e and 3.5e have cores, but so many supplementals that no one will
    be happy with the hatchet job that will need to be taken to them.

    Even if they do it, I don't want it.

    I don't like the model they have, have given up on 5e, and don't like what >> I'm hearing for 6e, excuse me D&D One.

    Calling it "D&D One" just feels wrong. D&D was based in Tolkien, right
    down to the original "racial hatred" rules and classes like the Ranger.
    To come full-circle to "One D&D to rule them all" just feels very, very weird.

    You'd almost think it was deliberate irony. ;^)

    One D&D will also mess up with searches as I bet people will call it
    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was called that already.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to justisaur@gmail.com on Sun Dec 4 10:05:47 2022
    On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 06:35:11 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8, gmk...@gmail.com wrote:

    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was called that already.

    Damn, I hadn't even thought of that. That's horrible. Also probably deliberate.

    I doubt it. They're more likely pushing the idea of one unifying
    system, /the/ game you play if you want to experience role-playing.
    Plus, they've probably an idea that this will be the 'last' D&D in the
    same way 'Windows 10' was supposed to be the 'last' version of
    Windows; coupled with the idea that "customers are afraid of products
    with big numbers" that has forced countless revisions to franchise
    numbering (Friday the 13th, the nvidia GPUs, Microsoft's XBox) over
    the years.

    It's stupid, customers see right through it, and causes nothing but
    confusion, but marketing companies make money off of big re-brandings,
    so it keeps happening.

    Anyway, I'll just be calling it D&Done :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Justisaur@21:1/5 to gmk...@gmail.com on Sun Dec 4 06:35:11 2022
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8, gmk...@gmail.com wrote:
    On 04/12/2022 07:08, Zaghadka wrote:
    On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 11:58:55 -0800 (PST), in rec.games.frp.dnd, Justisaur

    I don't like the model they have, have given up on 5e, and don't like what >> I'm hearing for 6e, excuse me D&D One.

    Calling it "D&D One" just feels wrong. D&D was based in Tolkien, right
    down to the original "racial hatred" rules and classes like the Ranger.
    To come full-circle to "One D&D to rule them all" just feels very, very weird.

    You'd almost think it was deliberate irony. ;^)

    One D&D will also mess up with searches as I bet people will call it
    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was called that already.

    Damn, I hadn't even thought of that. That's horrible. Also probably deliberate.

    - Justisaur

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From kyonshi@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Sun Dec 4 17:18:37 2022
    On 04/12/2022 16:05, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 06:35:11 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8, gmk...@gmail.com wrote:

    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was called that already.

    Damn, I hadn't even thought of that. That's horrible. Also probably deliberate.

    I doubt it. They're more likely pushing the idea of one unifying
    system, /the/ game you play if you want to experience role-playing.
    Plus, they've probably an idea that this will be the 'last' D&D in the
    same way 'Windows 10' was supposed to be the 'last' version of
    Windows; coupled with the idea that "customers are afraid of products
    with big numbers" that has forced countless revisions to franchise
    numbering (Friday the 13th, the nvidia GPUs, Microsoft's XBox) over
    the years.

    It's stupid, customers see right through it, and causes nothing but confusion, but marketing companies make money off of big re-brandings,
    so it keeps happening.

    Anyway, I'll just be calling it D&Done :)



    I bet what will happen is that the next iteration after 6e will split
    into multiple parts. Some people were quite fond of 4e, but most seemed
    to think it would have been better of as a tactical spin off. I also
    think that a more basic and a more narrative version would be a better
    way to satisfy different demographics.
    So seperate but compatible might be the way to go for them.
    Many people who play DnD already are not actually that fond of the
    system. I mean, they are fond of some parts, but it's difficult to strip
    out some parts without messing up others.
    (they could just play a different game than DnD, but that's not gonna
    happen in 80% of cases. Lots of people don't play RPGs, they play DnD)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Justisaur@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Mon Dec 5 06:56:32 2022
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:05:56 AM UTC-8, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 06:35:11 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8, gmk...@gmail.com wrote:

    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was called that already.

    Anyway, I'll just be calling it D&Done :)

    Lol! Maybe that'll get them to end the stupidity. (No, I know, nothing ever stops
    the stupidity until it's far too late.)

    D&Done it is.

    - Justisaur

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to taustinca@gmail.com on Mon Dec 5 11:49:19 2022
    On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:35:26 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
    Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote in >news:bf0df653-50da-424b-8f25-67afa10d45ean@googlegroups.com:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:05:56 AM UTC-8, Spalls
    Hurgenson wrote:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8,
    gmk...@gmail.com wrote:

    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was called
    that already.

    Anyway, I'll just be calling it D&Done :)

    D&Done it is.

    Some of us have been done with D&D for a long, long time.

    Well, I'm glad you came to a D&D newsgroup to tell us that ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha@21:1/5 to Justisaur on Mon Dec 5 08:35:26 2022
    Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote in news:bf0df653-50da-424b-8f25-67afa10d45ean@googlegroups.com:

    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:05:56 AM UTC-8, Spalls
    Hurgenson wrote:
    On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 06:35:11 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8,
    gmk...@gmail.com wrote:

    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was called
    that already.

    Anyway, I'll just be calling it D&Done :)

    Lol! Maybe that'll get them to end the stupidity. (No, I know,
    nothing ever stops the stupidity until it's far too late.)

    D&Done it is.

    Some of us have been done with D&D for a long, long time.

    --
    Terry Austin

    "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Mon Dec 5 11:07:40 2022
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote in news:b68soh9ahii306h2g00rhtedquk3qlg5m0@4ax.com:

    On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:35:26 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
    Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
    Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote in >>news:bf0df653-50da-424b-8f25-67afa10d45ean@googlegroups.com:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:05:56 AM UTC-8, Spalls
    Hurgenson wrote:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8,
    gmk...@gmail.com wrote:

    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was called
    that already.

    Anyway, I'll just be calling it D&Done :)

    D&Done it is.

    Some of us have been done with D&D for a long, long time.

    Well, I'm glad you came to a D&D newsgroup to tell us that ;-)

    There's more non-D&D traffic here than in all the non-D&D newsgroups
    combined.

    --
    Terry Austin

    "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From kyonshi@21:1/5 to Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha on Tue Dec 6 09:29:00 2022
    On 05/12/2022 19:07, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote in news:b68soh9ahii306h2g00rhtedquk3qlg5m0@4ax.com:

    On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:35:26 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
    Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
    Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:bf0df653-50da-424b-8f25-67afa10d45ean@googlegroups.com:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:05:56 AM UTC-8, Spalls
    Hurgenson wrote:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8,
    gmk...@gmail.com wrote:

    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was called
    that already.

    Anyway, I'll just be calling it D&Done :)

    D&Done it is.

    Some of us have been done with D&D for a long, long time.

    Well, I'm glad you came to a D&D newsgroup to tell us that ;-)

    There's more non-D&D traffic here than in all the non-D&D newsgroups combined.


    bit of a chicken/egg situation

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha@21:1/5 to kyonshi on Tue Dec 6 08:09:17 2022
    kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:tmmugc$6mmp$2@dont-email.me:

    On 05/12/2022 19:07, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:b68soh9ahii306h2g00rhtedquk3qlg5m0@4ax.com:

    On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:35:26 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
    Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
    Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:bf0df653-50da-424b-8f25-67afa10d45ean@googlegroups.com:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:05:56 AM UTC-8, Spalls
    Hurgenson wrote:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8,
    gmk...@gmail.com wrote:

    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was
    called that already.

    Anyway, I'll just be calling it D&Done :)

    D&Done it is.

    Some of us have been done with D&D for a long, long time.

    Well, I'm glad you came to a D&D newsgroup to tell us that ;-)

    There's more non-D&D traffic here than in all the non-D&D
    newsgroups combined.


    bit of a chicken/egg situation

    And a "usenet is dead" situation.

    --
    Terry Austin

    "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From azothath@21:1/5 to Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha on Tue Dec 13 12:34:07 2022
    On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 11:09:20 AM UTC-5, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
    kyonshi <gmk...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:tmmugc$6mmp$2...@dont-email.me:
    On 05/12/2022 19:07, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:b68soh9ahii306h2g...@4ax.com:

    On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:35:26 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
    Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:bf0df653-50da-424b...@googlegroups.com:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:05:56 AM UTC-8, Spalls
    Hurgenson wrote:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8,
    gmk...@gmail.com wrote:

    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was
    called that already.

    Anyway, I'll just be calling it D&Done :)

    D&Done it is.

    Some of us have been done with D&D for a long, long time.

    Well, I'm glad you came to a D&D newsgroup to tell us that ;-)

    There's more non-D&D traffic here than in all the non-D&D
    newsgroups combined.


    bit of a chicken/egg situation

    And a "usenet is dead" situation.

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

    c'mon, everyone luvs floggin a dead horse...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha@21:1/5 to azothath on Tue Dec 13 14:37:12 2022
    azothath <azothath@gmail.com> wrote in news:1a73d043-74a7-4faf-b3b7-4d7698db1365n@googlegroups.com:

    On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 11:09:20 AM UTC-5, Jibini Kula
    Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
    kyonshi <gmk...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:tmmugc$6mmp$2...@dont-email.me:
    On 05/12/2022 19:07, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:b68soh9ahii306h2g...@4ax.com:

    On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 08:35:26 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
    Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:bf0df653-50da-424b...@googlegroups.com:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:05:56 AM UTC-8, Spalls
    Hurgenson wrote:
    On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 AM UTC-8,
    gmk...@gmail.com wrote:

    ODnD and nobody will remember that original DnD was
    called that already.

    Anyway, I'll just be calling it D&Done :)

    D&Done it is.

    Some of us have been done with D&D for a long, long time.

    Well, I'm glad you came to a D&D newsgroup to tell us that
    ;-)

    There's more non-D&D traffic here than in all the non-D&D
    newsgroups combined.


    bit of a chicken/egg situation

    And a "usenet is dead" situation.

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

    c'mon, everyone luvs floggin a dead horse...

    Until all that's left is a grease spot on the sidewalk.

    --
    Terry Austin

    "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hollowone PL@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 5 04:01:42 2023
    I don't know.. I'm still stuck somewhere between 2e and older and sometimes look into a bunch of 3e books that satisfy me better than all this 5e+ which way too much focused on corporate communication than leaving me with a fine product without corporate
    policy incorporated in so many discussions. Orc is a freaking race at the end.. no shame to call it as such...

    Games should be focused on gaming, not fixing real-life problems.

    /h1

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to hollowonepl@gmail.com on Thu Jan 5 10:36:12 2023
    On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 04:01:42 -0800 (PST), Hollowone PL
    <hollowonepl@gmail.com> wrote:

    Orc is a freaking race at the end.. no shame to call it as such...

    <snark mode on>

    But "Orc" would more properly be defined as a species, not a race,
    wouldn't it?

    ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ironstaff@gmail.com@21:1/5 to hollo...@gmail.com on Thu Jan 5 13:35:17 2023
    On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 7:01:43 AM UTC-5, hollo...@gmail.com wrote:
    I don't know.. I'm still stuck somewhere between 2e and older and sometimes look into a bunch of 3e books that satisfy me better than all this 5e+ which way too much focused on corporate communication than leaving me with a fine product without
    corporate policy incorporated in so many discussions. Orc is a freaking race at the end.. no shame to call it as such...

    Games should be focused on gaming, not fixing real-life problems.

    /h1

    Minority groups in the real world have pointed out that using the term 'race' in a game is problematic. They can't fix the real world issue easily, because they didn't create those issues. But it's really simple for people to stop being problematic in a *
    game*. Maybe we should listen to the real world minority groups and not make their lives worse. In a fictional *game*. I'm not sure how I can explain that we should be decent to people.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha@21:1/5 to iron...@gmail.com on Thu Jan 5 14:35:07 2023
    "iron...@gmail.com" <ironstaff@gmail.com> wrote in news:a942b0c4-3f4d-4155-bfe1-cd0887e4b610n@googlegroups.com:

    I'm not sure how I can explain that we should
    be decent to people.

    Except for people who find woke language nazis objectionable. We
    should be assholes to them.

    --
    Terry Austin

    "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ironstaff@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha on Fri Jan 6 12:53:43 2023
    On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 5:35:11 PM UTC-5, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
    "iron...@gmail.com" <iron...@gmail.com> wrote in news:a942b0c4-3f4d-4155...@googlegroups.com:
    I'm not sure how I can explain that we should
    be decent to people.

    Except for people who find woke language nazis objectionable. We
    should be assholes to them.

    The US had a really solid solution to the Nazi problem back in the 1940s.

    --
    Terry Austin

    "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha@21:1/5 to iron...@gmail.com on Fri Jan 6 14:25:14 2023
    "iron...@gmail.com" <ironstaff@gmail.com> wrote in news:a8c92ca0-6f76-42d3-b021-11aab7ba6107n@googlegroups.com:

    On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 5:35:11 PM UTC-5, Jibini Kula
    Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
    "iron...@gmail.com" <iron...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:a942b0c4-3f4d-4155...@googlegroups.com:
    I'm not sure how I can explain that we should
    be decent to people.

    Except for people who find woke language nazis objectionable.
    We should be assholes to them.

    The US had a really solid solution to the Nazi problem back in
    the 1940s.

    A lot has changed in 80 years. As things do.

    --
    Terry Austin

    "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

    Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hollowone PL@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 27 23:42:54 2023
    piątek, 6 stycznia 2023 o 23:25:17 UTC+1 Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha napisał(a):
    "iron...@gmail.com" <iron...@gmail.com> wrote in news:a8c92ca0-6f76-42d3...@googlegroups.com:
    On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 5:35:11 PM UTC-5, Jibini Kula
    Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
    "iron...@gmail.com" <iron...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:a942b0c4-3f4d-4155...@googlegroups.com:
    I'm not sure how I can explain that we should
    be decent to people.

    Except for people who find woke language nazis objectionable.
    We should be assholes to them.

    The US had a really solid solution to the Nazi problem back in
    the 1940s.
    A lot has changed in 80 years. As things do.

    Are we still talking about worlds of fiction?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ironstaff@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Hollowone PL on Tue Feb 28 12:54:34 2023
    On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 2:42:55 AM UTC-5, Hollowone PL wrote:
    piątek, 6 stycznia 2023 o 23:25:17 UTC+1 Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha napisał(a):
    "iron...@gmail.com" <iron...@gmail.com> wrote in news:a8c92ca0-6f76-42d3...@googlegroups.com:
    On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 5:35:11 PM UTC-5, Jibini Kula
    Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
    "iron...@gmail.com" <iron...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:a942b0c4-3f4d-4155...@googlegroups.com:
    I'm not sure how I can explain that we should
    be decent to people.

    Except for people who find woke language nazis objectionable.
    We should be assholes to them.

    The US had a really solid solution to the Nazi problem back in
    the 1940s.
    A lot has changed in 80 years. As things do.
    Are we still talking about worlds of fiction?

    I'm not. F*** fascists.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hollowone PL@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 6 05:02:32 2023
    A lot has changed in 80 years. As things do.
    Are we still talking about worlds of fiction?
    I'm not. F*** fascists.

    Well, I am; and I'm not interested in blending reality and fantasy, that's is a job for psychiatrist, not an internet forum.

    Get some Xanax boy as this kind of bollocks were already part of the D&D ecosystem, back in the 80s when kids who blended worlds of fiction and reality too much killed each other and their desperate parents blamed the game and its satanic practices built
    into the manuals as obvious explanation. Now books describing fantasy worlds are to blame for racism of the real, ignorant people, who did not even hear the name of the game, nor it will impact any change on their ignorant behaviour.

    Good luck crucifying fiction.

    Many things have changed since 80s, indeed, but some are exactly the same.. people should be fixing they own mental problems outside the game.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zaghadka@21:1/5 to Hurgenson on Mon Mar 6 20:50:16 2023
    On Thu, 05 Jan 2023 10:36:12 -0500, in rec.games.frp.dnd, Spalls
    Hurgenson wrote:

    On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 04:01:42 -0800 (PST), Hollowone PL
    <hollowonepl@gmail.com> wrote:

    Orc is a freaking race at the end.. no shame to call it as such...

    <snark mode on>

    But "Orc" would more properly be defined as a species, not a race,
    wouldn't it?

    That's what they're going to, but it was all based on Tolkien, so they're
    going to have a hard time freeing grognards from the "elven race," etc.

    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zaghadka@21:1/5 to iron...@gmail.com on Mon Mar 6 21:09:34 2023
    On Thu, 5 Jan 2023 13:35:17 -0800 (PST), in rec.games.frp.dnd, iron...@gmail.com wrote:

    On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 7:01:43 AM UTC-5, hollo...@gmail.com wrote:
    I don't know.. I'm still stuck somewhere between 2e and older and sometimes look into a bunch of 3e books that satisfy me better than all this 5e+ which way too much focused on corporate communication than leaving me with a fine product without
    corporate policy incorporated in so many discussions. Orc is a freaking race at the end.. no shame to call it as such...

    Games should be focused on gaming, not fixing real-life problems.

    /h1

    Minority groups

    See, this is the problem. Minority groups are not homogenous. The folks
    asking for the changes are particularly sensitive to the word, because
    they study it and understand the full implications, and because the
    flavor of the week in those political circles is that changing words
    changes thought and therefore solves problems.

    As someone who has studied language all his life, and has studied
    attempts like this going back as far as French monarchs trying to get monosyllabic, vile Saxon words out of English, this is patently false.
    This is why you "take a shit" or "a crap" instead of "expel manure" or "defecate." Also why shit is a "curse word." Sociological changes cause language changes, not the other way around. Sometimes the stigma it
    creates lasts, but the usage never dies. "Approved" usages die.

    I suspect the fact is that most people in the "minority groups" do not
    care. In fact, some in the groups who are D&D players might even be
    offended. If the bulk of a group isn't using it, or doesn't care, and
    remember they are all *different* people, the change will not happen.

    cf: LatinX, which is pronounced with an English "X," not as "lah-teen-ehh-keys," which would at least be linguistically respectful.
    Voto Latino has told those proponents to go pound sand, as has most of
    the Latino community in a position to care. Because minority groups are diverse, and don't appreciate an English "x" added to the end of their
    long fought-for Latin Spanish word.

    Please do not mistake a vocal few who *want* to be spokespeople for a
    group as *actual* spokespeople. Most demographic groups only have the
    former, and not the latter. If I had a dollar for everytime I've heard,
    "but it comes from the community" only to find out that the community was
    a couple hundred people out of thousands if not millions, well... I'd be
    a super rich man. Lots of people claim to be "the community." It is not a
    claim an individual or an oligarchy can make.

    There's a reason every word for black person, from "Negro" to "Colored"
    to even "Black" has been deemed a pejorative that activists want to do
    away with.

    It's because the racism is the cause of the pejorative usage, and the
    word change never had a chance of fixing it. Fix the racism, not the nomenclature. That's the way real language change is effected, from the
    bottom up.

    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ironstaff@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Hollowone PL on Tue Mar 7 04:50:23 2023
    On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 8:02:33 AM UTC-5, Hollowone PL wrote:
    A lot has changed in 80 years. As things do.
    Are we still talking about worlds of fiction?
    I'm not. F*** fascists.
    Well, I am; and I'm not interested in blending reality and fantasy, that's is a job for psychiatrist, not an internet forum.

    Get some Xanax boy as this kind of bollocks were already part of the D&D ecosystem, back in the 80s when kids who blended worlds of fiction and reality too much killed each other and their desperate parents blamed the game and its satanic practices
    built into the manuals as obvious explanation. Now books describing fantasy worlds are to blame for racism of the real, ignorant people, who did not even hear the name of the game, nor it will impact any change on their ignorant behaviour.

    Good luck crucifying fiction.

    Many things have changed since 80s, indeed, but some are exactly the same.. people should be fixing they own mental problems outside the game.

    I lived through the Satanic Panic. Fictional worlds can allow real bigots to escape notice. Look at Tolkien and Lovecraft. But out here in the real world the fascists are rewriting what is and isn't free speech. What will and will not be protected. Hint,
    'woke' means black. And they are overtly anti-black. I don't say this as a white guy, I say it because the black people are and I strive to be an ally. There are people that will listen to me, a white guy that won't listen to black people.

    And I can live without the concern trolling.

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  • From Hollowone PL@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 9 05:14:42 2023
    wtorek, 7 marca 2023 o 13:50:24 UTC+1 iron...@gmail.com napisał(a):
    On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 8:02:33 AM UTC-5, Hollowone PL wrote:
    A lot has changed in 80 years. As things do.
    Are we still talking about worlds of fiction?
    I'm not. F*** fascists.
    Well, I am; and I'm not interested in blending reality and fantasy, that's is a job for psychiatrist, not an internet forum.

    Get some Xanax boy as this kind of bollocks were already part of the D&D ecosystem, back in the 80s when kids who blended worlds of fiction and reality too much killed each other and their desperate parents blamed the game and its satanic practices
    built into the manuals as obvious explanation. Now books describing fantasy worlds are to blame for racism of the real, ignorant people, who did not even hear the name of the game, nor it will impact any change on their ignorant behaviour.

    Good luck crucifying fiction.

    Many things have changed since 80s, indeed, but some are exactly the same.. people should be fixing they own mental problems outside the game.
    I lived through the Satanic Panic. Fictional worlds can allow real bigots to escape notice. Look at Tolkien and Lovecraft. But out here in the real world the fascists are rewriting what is and isn't free speech. What will and will not be protected.
    Hint, 'woke' means black. And they are overtly anti-black. I don't say this as a white guy, I say it because the black people are and I strive to be an ally. There are people that will listen to me, a white guy that won't listen to black people.

    And I can live without the concern trolling.

    If trolling is about my posts, then apologies.

    My intention was not trolling, just to state and perhaps add difficult comment/question to the discussion, important to me being a D&D sentimentalist, and being more emotionally attached to older and more Tolkienish descriptions as direct association
    with the D&D line of products.

    I just personally separate conflicting words used in the context of D&D terminology and real world problems. I don't find "race" and I believe "gender/sex" right after to follow, used in the context of fantasy fiction and fantasy creatures, a real world
    problem. Nor I believe it will change anything regarding real world problems, so I don't mix it.

    I perceive Wizards' effort just as PR supporting their CSR policies, thus just simple marketing with words. Their products are described by words, so they know how to use them to empower their marketing.. but it is still just marketing that in my humble
    opinion will change nothing with the core problem.

    Considering it, I just don't waste time for this topic on such ground. I rather prefer showing the difference where actually I can make the difference. Like raising my kids among other kids with tolerance and acceptance as part of the core principle.
    Like confronting real people with this problem, rather than eluding myself with the words of fiction. Both extremely difficult to do in a constructive way. Escapism is easier and common these days.. but it changes absolutely nothing.

    If core principles that come from parents, education and the right force from local communities did better job, we'd not need to have this conversation in the first place, nor any governed policies would be truly needed here.

    Unfortunately, never in the history of the world, equality was shaping it and as current news show, we as "civilization" rather opt for another global war rather than finding each other equal and respected... which is sad.

    -h1






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