James Dow Allen wrote:

Another hand was more interesting. He held
AKQ65
KQ853
A
53

I dealt and opened 1C with
T9
AJ9
764
AQT86
Would rgb'ers open this hand?

I'm not a strong player. I like to have 12 hp to open, 11 hp with a 5
card major and 10 hp with both. I'd call your hand borderline, but I
wouldn't blame partner for opening. There are two 10's and two 9's.

--
Bertel, Denmark

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I've started playing at BridgeBase; yesterday I partnered with an "Expert"
from USA. I was not impressed.
If it matters, we're playing "Casual" IMPS; non-vs-vul on both hands.

Partner held
QJx AKQTxxx K Ax
and opened 1H in second seat.
I need a very good hand to open Two Clubs (and occasionally miss
games for that reason), but I would open 2C with this
hand despite that it has only 16 HCP if the singleton K is ignored.
I call it a 9-trick hand. But partner opened 1H, his LHO overcalled
2D, Pass-Pass back to him. What now?
I think he should make up for his 1st-round underbid by bidding 4H
now. In fact he bid just 2H. (I suppose he was trying to "operate"
but isn't that hugely insolent when playing with a new partner?)

Another hand was more interesting. He held
AKQ65
KQ853
A
53

I dealt and opened 1C with
T9
AJ9
764
AQT86
Would rgb'ers open this hand? Some open most 12-pt hands;
others open only "good 12s", but I might open this hand
even if partner expects a good 12. The 4-3-2-1 count
is only an approximation to the honor values, and in particular
undervalues Aces and Tens. Given this and the nice club
suit, I think opening is correct even for players
who pass with "mediocre 12s."

I have a very simple rule about Jump shifts, whether by
responder or opener. The meaning is "I'm not looking
for game; I'm looking for slam."
If the jump-shifter signs off in 4 of a major, his partner
should assume he has values to bid 5.
Obviously, partner should jump to 2S here
with his 18 count; then bid hearts twice.
Instead he bid 1S; his vulnerable LHO pre-empted 3D.
This was passed back to partner who bid 6H.
KD was led.

What is the proper play? One might try the club
finesse immediately to learn whether we can afford
a spade loser, but this is troublesome.
Instead I think he should just play hearts and spades
in some order.
As it happens, LHO has xxx T Jx KQxxxxx.
Spades split 3-3 AND the Jack is onside. Yet my
"expert" partner found a way to go down.

He then blamed ME. My opening was unsound he said;
he told me to "learn the rule of 20."
I don't believe in such facile rules.

(There is a rule I DO use: The "Rule of 15" (HCP plus spades)
for opening in 4th seat.

James

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On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 11:43:03 AM UTC-7, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

James Dow Allen wrote:

Another hand was more interesting. He held
AKQ65
KQ853
A
53

I dealt and opened 1C with
T9
AJ9
764
AQT86
Would rgb'ers open this hand?

I'm not a strong player. I like to have 12 hp to open, 11 hp with a 5
card major and 10 hp with both. I'd call your hand borderline, but I wouldn't blame partner for opening. There are two 10's and two 9's.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Hand #1: I would rebid 4H. I don't like opening 2C with this hand. Partner will expect a different hand.

Hand #2: I don't like opening 1C with such short values and short majors. Partner, lacking a club fit, should bid 1S, since he has to consider that the hand may not fit well, and he needs room to explore. He wants to hear your planned rebid. He can
force later.

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On 2023-06-17, James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

I've started playing at BridgeBase; yesterday I partnered with an "Expert" from USA. I was not impressed.
If it matters, we're playing "Casual" IMPS; non-vs-vul on both hands.

Partner held
QJx AKQTxxx K Ax
and opened 1H in second seat.
I need a very good hand to open Two Clubs (and occasionally miss
games for that reason), but I would open 2C with this
hand despite that it has only 16 HCP if the singleton K is ignored.
I call it a 9-trick hand. But partner opened 1H, his LHO overcalled
2D, Pass-Pass back to him. What now?
I think he should make up for his 1st-round underbid by bidding 4H
now. In fact he bid just 2H. (I suppose he was trying to "operate"
but isn't that hugely insolent when playing with a new partner?)

Another hand was more interesting. He held
AKQ65
KQ853
A
53

I dealt and opened 1C with
T9
AJ9
764
AQT86
Would rgb'ers open this hand? Some open most 12-pt hands;
others open only "good 12s", but I might open this hand
even if partner expects a good 12. The 4-3-2-1 count
is only an approximation to the honor values, and in particular
undervalues Aces and Tens. Given this and the nice club
suit, I think opening is correct even for players
who pass with "mediocre 12s."

I have a very simple rule about Jump shifts, whether by
responder or opener. The meaning is "I'm not looking
for game; I'm looking for slam."
If the jump-shifter signs off in 4 of a major, his partner
should assume he has values to bid 5.
Obviously, partner should jump to 2S here
with his 18 count; then bid hearts twice.
Instead he bid 1S; his vulnerable LHO pre-empted 3D.
This was passed back to partner who bid 6H.
KD was led.

What is the proper play? One might try the club
finesse immediately to learn whether we can afford
a spade loser, but this is troublesome.
Instead I think he should just play hearts and spades
in some order.
As it happens, LHO has xxx T Jx KQxxxxx.
Spades split 3-3 AND the Jack is onside. Yet my
"expert" partner found a way to go down.

He then blamed ME. My opening was unsound he said;
he told me to "learn the rule of 20."
I don't believe in such facile rules.

(There is a rule I DO use: The "Rule of 15" (HCP plus spades)
for opening in 4th seat.

James

The 'skill level' that most BBO players assign themselves
rarely correspond to reality. Most genuine experts that
I know put 'private'.

I would open both the hands you cite at the one level
playing with a random partner.

It isn't a good idea for responder to jump-shift with a
two-suiter unless one of the suits is partner's opening suit.

Johnson

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Permission to revise and extend my remarks?

On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 1:25:51 AM UTC+7, James Dow Allen wrote:

Partner held
QJx AKQTxxx K Ax
and opened 1H in second seat.
I need a very good hand to open Two Clubs (and occasionally miss
games for that reason), but I would open 2C with this
hand despite that it has only 16 HCP if the singleton K is ignored.
I call it a 9-trick hand....

I neglected to mention a key point.
Even if you treat the singleton K as completely worthless,
the 3 HCP are important to the decision BECAUSE the high point-count
increases the risk that the hand will pass out at 1H.
(Either K in partner makes game likely.)

I think opening 2C, followed by minimum bids of hearts, hearts and hearts describes the hand well.

I dealt and opened 1C with
T9 AJ9 764 AQT86

The precise threshold for a minimum 1-bid is a matter of style.
I know my minimum is slightly lower than some others'.
50+ years ago I played in a regional match-point tournament with
an expert. I'd never played with him before though we hung
out in the same circle of experts. The ONLY comment he
made as we were preparing our simple convention cards was
"Open all 12s and most 11s." That comment stuck with me,
though I still pass most 11s at IMPs.

And the 4321 system DOES undervalue Aces considerably.

The bidding system we and most of our friends
played was almost identical to SAYC, despite the 50+ year gap.
One difference was that we played 3NT and Singleton Swiss
as the major-suit game raises. That was in Northern California;
Jacoby 2NT was more of a Southern California thing IIRC.

James

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On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:25:51 PM UTC-4, James Dow Allen wrote:

I've started playing at BridgeBase; yesterday I partnered with an "Expert" from USA. I was not impressed.
If it matters, we're playing "Casual" IMPS; non-vs-vul on both hands.

Partner held
QJx AKQTxxx K Ax
and opened 1H in second seat.
I need a very good hand to open Two Clubs (and occasionally miss
games for that reason), but I would open 2C with this
hand despite that it has only 16 HCP if the singleton K is ignored.
I call it a 9-trick hand. But partner opened 1H, his LHO overcalled
2D, Pass-Pass back to him. What now?
I think he should make up for his 1st-round underbid by bidding 4H
now. In fact he bid just 2H. (I suppose he was trying to "operate"
but isn't that hugely insolent when playing with a new partner?)

Another hand was more interesting. He held
AKQ65
KQ853
A
53

I dealt and opened 1C with
T9
AJ9
764
AQT86
Would rgb'ers open this hand? Some open most 12-pt hands;
others open only "good 12s", but I might open this hand
even if partner expects a good 12. The 4-3-2-1 count
is only an approximation to the honor values, and in particular
undervalues Aces and Tens. Given this and the nice club
suit, I think opening is correct even for players
who pass with "mediocre 12s."

I have a very simple rule about Jump shifts, whether by
responder or opener. The meaning is "I'm not looking
for game; I'm looking for slam."
If the jump-shifter signs off in 4 of a major, his partner
should assume he has values to bid 5.
Obviously, partner should jump to 2S here
with his 18 count; then bid hearts twice.
Instead he bid 1S; his vulnerable LHO pre-empted 3D.
This was passed back to partner who bid 6H.
KD was led.

What is the proper play? One might try the club
finesse immediately to learn whether we can afford
a spade loser, but this is troublesome.
Instead I think he should just play hearts and spades
in some order.
As it happens, LHO has xxx T Jx KQxxxxx.
Spades split 3-3 AND the Jack is onside. Yet my
"expert" partner found a way to go down.

He then blamed ME. My opening was unsound he said;
he told me to "learn the rule of 20."
I don't believe in such facile rules.

(There is a rule I DO use: The "Rule of 15" (HCP plus spades)
for opening in 4th seat.

James

Concerning the first hand: I do not believe the 2H rebid is a serious underbid. As it would have. been if the opponents had been silent and you had responded.

Opener's rebid opposite a passing partner must allow for the possibility of a busted dummy.

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On Saturday, June 17, 2023 at 2:25:51 PM UTC-4, James Dow Allen wrote:

I've started playing at BridgeBase; yesterday I partnered with an "Expert" from USA. I was not impressed.

People rate themselves expert so that others would want to play with them. Then they proceed to destroy those illusions immediately.

If it matters, we're playing "Casual" IMPS; non-vs-vul on both hands.

Partner held
QJx AKQTxxx K Ax
and opened 1H in second seat.
I need a very good hand to open Two Clubs (and occasionally miss
games for that reason), but I would open 2C with this
hand despite that it has only 16 HCP if the singleton K is ignored.
I call it a 9-trick hand.

I think opening 2C with that hand is, to put it mildly, insane

But partner opened 1H, his LHO overcalled

2D, Pass-Pass back to him. What now?
I think he should make up for his 1st-round underbid by bidding 4H
now. In fact he bid just 2H. (I suppose he was trying to "operate"
but isn't that hugely insolent when playing with a new partner?)

Of course, 4H is obviously making in retrospect. It wouldn't be a silly bid

But my question is "What was your hand?


.

Another hand was more interesting. He held
AKQ65
KQ853
A
53

I dealt and opened 1C with
T9
AJ9
764
AQT86
Would rgb'ers open this hand? Some open most 12-pt hands;
others open only "good 12s", but I might open this hand
even if partner expects a good 12. The 4-3-2-1 count
is only an approximation to the honor values, and in particular
undervalues Aces and Tens. Given this and the nice club
suit, I think opening is correct even for players
who pass with "mediocre 12s."

I would open it in 90% of the partnerships I have had. In most of those, I would open 1NT

I have a very simple rule about Jump shifts, whether by
responder or opener. The meaning is "I'm not looking
for game; I'm looking for slam."
If the jump-shifter signs off in 4 of a major, his partner
should assume he has values to bid 5.
Obviously, partner should jump to 2S here
with his 18 count;

Except for in a bridge game. Crowding your own bidding room with a two-suited hand is not reasonable.

then bid hearts twice.

Instead he bid 1S; his vulnerable LHO pre-empted 3D.
This was passed back to partner who bid 6H.
KD was led.

He probably didn't trust a random partner not to pass a forcing 3H. Lots of that with self-proclaimed experts.

What is the proper play? One might try the club
finesse immediately to learn whether we can afford
a spade loser, but this is troublesome.
Instead I think he should just play hearts and spades
in some order.
As it happens, LHO has xxx T Jx KQxxxxx.
Spades split 3-3 AND the Jack is onside. Yet my
"expert" partner found a way to go down.

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In article <3f955ec0-fb03-4653-9e68-6d71a6900800n@googlegroups.com>,
Will in New Haven <willinnewhaven969@gmail.com> wrote:
...

Partner held
QJx AKQTxxx K Ax
and opened 1H in second seat.
I need a very good hand to open Two Clubs (and occasionally miss
games for that reason), but I would open 2C with this
hand despite that it has only 16 HCP if the singleton K is ignored.
I call it a 9-trick hand.

I think opening 2C with that hand is, to put it mildly, insane

I think the takeaway here is that if you want to open this hand with a
forcing bid (and you should), you need to be playing Precision (which I do whenever possible).

However, digressing somewhat, the problem with Precision is when you do get
an actual full-strength SA 2 bid. It is often hard to catch up after
opening 1C.

--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4 lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Security

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In message <ua0ikm$2rc91$1@news.xmission.com>, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> writes

In article <3f955ec0-fb03-4653-9e68-6d71a6900800n@googlegroups.com>,
Will in New Haven <willinnewhaven969@gmail.com> wrote:
...

Partner held
QJx AKQTxxx K Ax
and opened 1H in second seat.
I need a very good hand to open Two Clubs (and occasionally miss
games for that reason), but I would open 2C with this
hand despite that it has only 16 HCP if the singleton K is ignored.
I call it a 9-trick hand.

I think opening 2C with that hand is, to put it mildly, insane

Applying the losing trick count, it's only a 4 loser hand, so I think
it's reasonable.

I think the takeaway here is that if you want to open this hand with a >forcing bid (and you should), you need to be playing Precision (which I do >whenever possible).

An old-fashioned Acol Two-bid would have been perfect, but even most
Acol pairs don't play them these days.

However, digressing somewhat, the problem with Precision is when you do get >an actual full-strength SA 2 bid. It is often hard to catch up after
opening 1C.

Especially if you get vigorous opposition bidding, I imagine.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

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