• 3NT or TOX?

    From cshearts@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 9 04:10:07 2021
    In the Aces column in our local paper on Nov. 9, 2021, Bobby Wolff gives the hand 64-AQJ84-AK4-A62 with RHO opening 3C and asks what we would bid next.

    Wolff says that the hand is too strong for 3H and that a TOX would force you to guess whether to bid 4H or 3NT if partner bids 3S, and that bidding 3N now "cuts out the middle man."

    However, if you are willing to bid 3NT now without a spade stopper, it seems to me that it should be easy double and then bid 3NT over partner's 3S and this gives partner a chance to run to hearts or diamonds if he is 2-suited or to rebid spades if he is
    1-suited.

    So which is better, 3NT or double?

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  • From C. Johnson@21:1/5 to cshe...@gmail.com on Tue Nov 9 21:12:52 2021
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 4:10:09 AM UTC-8, cshe...@gmail.com wrote:
    In the Aces column in our local paper on Nov. 9, 2021, Bobby Wolff gives the hand 64-AQJ84-AK4-A62 with RHO opening 3C and asks what we would bid next.

    Wolff says that the hand is too strong for 3H and that a TOX would force you to guess whether to bid 4H or 3NT if partner bids 3S, and that bidding 3N now "cuts out the middle man."

    However, if you are willing to bid 3NT now without a spade stopper, it seems to me that it should be easy double and then bid 3NT over partner's 3S and this gives partner a chance to run to hearts or diamonds if he is 2-suited or to rebid spades if he
    is 1-suited.

    So which is better, 3NT or double?
    If you double and pard bids 4 spades, then what?

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  • From cshearts@gmail.com@21:1/5 to C. Johnson on Wed Nov 10 04:31:25 2021
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 11:12:54 PM UTC-6, C. Johnson wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 4:10:09 AM UTC-8, cshe...@gmail.com wrote:
    In the Aces column in our local paper on Nov. 9, 2021, Bobby Wolff gives the hand 64-AQJ84-AK4-A62 with RHO opening 3C and asks what we would bid next.

    Wolff says that the hand is too strong for 3H and that a TOX would force you to guess whether to bid 4H or 3NT if partner bids 3S, and that bidding 3N now "cuts out the middle man."

    However, if you are willing to bid 3NT now without a spade stopper, it seems to me that it should be easy double and then bid 3NT over partner's 3S and this gives partner a chance to run to hearts or diamonds if he is 2-suited or to rebid spades if
    he is 1-suited.

    So which is better, 3NT or double?
    If you double and pard bids 4 spades, then what?

    Since my TOX doesn't promise 4 spades and since spades don't figure to break well even if I had 4, I take pard's jump to show a good hand with 6+ spades or a very good 5, so I would pass. I only have 18 HCP with no ruffing values and only 2 spades, so
    if pard has enough for slam (15+ points), he has to bid something stronger than 4S, IMO.

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  • From Fred.@21:1/5 to cshe...@gmail.com on Mon Nov 15 07:10:22 2021
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 7:10:09 AM UTC-5, cshe...@gmail.com wrote:
    In the Aces column in our local paper on Nov. 9, 2021, Bobby Wolff gives the hand 64-AQJ84-AK4-A62 with RHO opening 3C and asks what we would bid next.

    Wolff says that the hand is too strong for 3H and that a TOX would force you to guess whether to bid 4H or 3NT if partner bids 3S, and that bidding 3N now "cuts out the middle man."

    However, if you are willing to bid 3NT now without a spade stopper, it seems to me that it should be easy double and then bid 3NT over partner's 3S and this gives partner a chance to run to hearts or diamonds if he is 2-suited or to rebid spades if he
    is 1-suited.

    So which is better, 3NT or double?

    I think that lots depends on your exact understanding of the TOX. In the absence of previous
    discussion I'd follow Mr. Wolff's lead and bid 3NT. Otherwise, the risk of a misunderstanding
    is worse than the risk of the spade doubleton and the risk of missing a heart slam combined.
    Double gives you no assurance of reaching the correct contract, but provides the defense with
    added information.

    Fred.

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  • From Fred.@21:1/5 to Fred. on Mon Nov 15 10:38:17 2021
    On Monday, November 15, 2021 at 10:10:24 AM UTC-5, Fred. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 7:10:09 AM UTC-5, cshe...@gmail.com wrote:
    In the Aces column in our local paper on Nov. 9, 2021, Bobby Wolff gives the hand 64-AQJ84-AK4-A62 with RHO opening 3C and asks what we would bid next.

    Wolff says that the hand is too strong for 3H and that a TOX would force you to guess whether to bid 4H or 3NT if partner bids 3S, and that bidding 3N now "cuts out the middle man."

    However, if you are willing to bid 3NT now without a spade stopper, it seems to me that it should be easy double and then bid 3NT over partner's 3S and this gives partner a chance to run to hearts or diamonds if he is 2-suited or to rebid spades if
    he is 1-suited.

    So which is better, 3NT or double?
    I think that lots depends on your exact understanding of the TOX. In the absence of previous
    discussion I'd follow Mr. Wolff's lead and bid 3NT. Otherwise, the risk of a misunderstanding
    is worse than the risk of the spade doubleton and the risk of missing a heart slam combined.
    Double gives you no assurance of reaching the correct contract, but provides the defense with
    added information.

    Fred.

    P.S. Intervener would prefer any spade honors to be on advancer's side of the table since a
    club holdup may be needed preparation towards losing a heart. The weak spade doubleton is
    likely good news.

    F.

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  • From Charles Brenner@21:1/5 to cshe...@gmail.com on Sun Nov 21 01:43:42 2021
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 1:31:27 PM UTC+1, cshe...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 11:12:54 PM UTC-6, C. Johnson wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 4:10:09 AM UTC-8, cshe...@gmail.com wrote:
    In the Aces column in our local paper on Nov. 9, 2021, Bobby Wolff gives the hand 64-AQJ84-AK4-A62 with RHO opening 3C and asks what we would bid next.

    Wolff says that the hand is too strong for 3H and that a TOX would force you to guess whether to bid 4H or 3NT if partner bids 3S, and that bidding 3N now "cuts out the middle man."

    However, if you are willing to bid 3NT now without a spade stopper, it seems to me that it should be easy double and then bid 3NT over partner's 3S and this gives partner a chance to run to hearts or diamonds if he is 2-suited or to rebid spades if
    he is 1-suited.

    So which is better, 3NT or double?
    If you double and pard bids 4 spades, then what?
    Since my TOX doesn't promise 4 spades and since spades don't figure to break well even if I had 4, I take pard's jump to show a good hand with 6+ spades or a very good 5, so I would pass. I only have 18 HCP with no ruffing values and only 2 spades, so
    if pard has enough for slam (15+ points), he has to bid something stronger than 4S, IMO.

    It's desirable to have 5 or 6 spades to bid 4S but we don't get to choose how many spades we have; we only get to choose what bid to make given what we're dealt. Even when dealt only 4S it's common that a bid of 4S is the best gamble.

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  • From Angela 184jlwi@21:1/5 to Charles Brenner on Mon Feb 14 01:53:08 2022
    Please unsubscribe me from this group: rec.games.bridge@googlegroups.com

    On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 4:43:44 AM UTC-5, Charles Brenner wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 1:31:27 PM UTC+1, cshe...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 11:12:54 PM UTC-6, C. Johnson wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 4:10:09 AM UTC-8, cshe...@gmail.com wrote:
    In the Aces column in our local paper on Nov. 9, 2021, Bobby Wolff gives the hand 64-AQJ84-AK4-A62 with RHO opening 3C and asks what we would bid next.

    Wolff says that the hand is too strong for 3H and that a TOX would force you to guess whether to bid 4H or 3NT if partner bids 3S, and that bidding 3N now "cuts out the middle man."

    However, if you are willing to bid 3NT now without a spade stopper, it seems to me that it should be easy double and then bid 3NT over partner's 3S and this gives partner a chance to run to hearts or diamonds if he is 2-suited or to rebid spades
    if he is 1-suited.

    So which is better, 3NT or double?
    If you double and pard bids 4 spades, then what?
    Since my TOX doesn't promise 4 spades and since spades don't figure to break well even if I had 4, I take pard's jump to show a good hand with 6+ spades or a very good 5, so I would pass. I only have 18 HCP with no ruffing values and only 2 spades,
    so if pard has enough for slam (15+ points), he has to bid something stronger than 4S, IMO.
    It's desirable to have 5 or 6 spades to bid 4S but we don't get to choose how many spades we have; we only get to choose what bid to make given what we're dealt. Even when dealt only 4S it's common that a bid of 4S is the best gamble.

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  • From Bertel Lund Hansen@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 14 12:04:27 2022
    Den 14.02.2022 kl. 11.29 skrev John Hall:

    It doesn't work like that. You have to unsubscribe yourself. But not
    being a user of googlegroups, I've no idea how you do that.

    I suppose you can just stop opening the group.

    --
    Bertel

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  • From John Hall@21:1/5 to angela184jlwi@gmail.com on Mon Feb 14 10:29:58 2022
    In message <78c9913a-4ab9-416a-a922-69f6a69e3dc1n@googlegroups.com>,
    Angela 184jlwi <angela184jlwi@gmail.com> writes
    Please unsubscribe me from this group:
    rec.games.bridge@googlegroups.com

    It doesn't work like that. You have to unsubscribe yourself. But not
    being a user of googlegroups, I've no idea how you do that.
    --
    John Hall
    "Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
    But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
    Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

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  • From Jean Pierre Fontenille@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 7 08:25:57 2022
    4S is a stop. 3S would be strong

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  • From John Hall@21:1/5 to Jean Pierre Fontenille on Tue Jun 7 16:58:19 2022
    In message <1d0f8618-9d7f-4c9a-8261-d18e255799e4n@googlegroups.com>,
    Jean Pierre Fontenille <fontenille.jp@gmail.com> writes
    4S is a stop. 3S would be strong

    It helps if you quote the post than you are responding to, especially if
    - as in this case - it was made a long time ago.
    --
    John Hall
    "Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
    But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
    Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

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