1. Forum
  2. Usenet
  3. REC.GAMES.BRIDGE

  • No strong jumpshift again

    From judyorcarl@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 3 17:56:06 2021
    I played on BBO with a stranger, whose profile said WJS.

    My partner bid 1C in first seat. No opponent bidding.

    I held, of course,

    K10x
    xxx
    AKQJ
    Axx

    Playing strong JS, I would bid 2D, then minimum NT. No problem.

    If I were sure that direct 3NT would show a strong balanced hand, that would be OK. But I'm sure it would not.

    So I bid 1D, hear 1S. OK, no choice but 2H. Not so bad if partner can be relied on to show extras if he has them.

    He makes the impossible bid of 4H. I bid 6NT down 1.

    He had

    J9xx
    AKQ
    xxx
    K98

    Granted, 4H was unspeakable, but that's not the point. He had to bid with no idea what I was after.

    Carl

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Co Wiersma@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 8 11:05:06 2021
    In every , more or less natural system the correct first round reply is 1D. Weak or strong, a jump to 2D shows a 6+ card suit.

    2H should be 4th suit forcing and so partner should have bid no trump.

    Co Wiersma


    Op 4-4-2021 om 03:56 schreef judyorcarl@verizon.net:
    I played on BBO with a stranger, whose profile said WJS.

    My partner bid 1C in first seat. No opponent bidding.

    I held, of course,

    K10x
    xxx
    AKQJ
    Axx

    Playing strong JS, I would bid 2D, then minimum NT. No problem.

    If I were sure that direct 3NT would show a strong balanced hand, that would be OK. But I'm sure it would not.

    So I bid 1D, hear 1S. OK, no choice but 2H. Not so bad if partner can be relied on to show extras if he has them.

    He makes the impossible bid of 4H. I bid 6NT down 1.

    He had

    J9xx
    AKQ
    xxx
    K98

    Granted, 4H was unspeakable, but that's not the point. He had to bid with no idea what I was after.

    Carl


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From judyorcarl@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Co Wiersma on Thu Apr 8 07:44:31 2021
    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:05:07 AM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    In every , more or less natural system the correct first round reply is 1D. Weak or strong, a jump to 2D shows a 6+ card suit.

    2H should be 4th suit forcing and so partner should have bid no trump.

    Co Wiersma

    Your "every" is a bid overbid.

    How do *you* show the poser of this hand below 3NT?

    Carl

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From judyorcarl@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 8 08:02:55 2021
    big overbid

    power

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Co Wiersma@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 8 18:45:10 2021
    1D and after partners 1S bid 2H.(4th suit forcing) as you seem to have done.


    Op 8-4-2021 om 16:44 schreef judyorcarl@verizon.net:
    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:05:07 AM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    In every , more or less natural system the correct first round reply is 1D. >> Weak or strong, a jump to 2D shows a 6+ card suit.

    2H should be 4th suit forcing and so partner should have bid no trump.

    Co Wiersma

    Your "every" is a bid overbid.

    How do *you* show the poser of this hand below 3NT?

    Carl


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From judyorcarl@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Co Wiersma on Thu Apr 8 15:33:56 2021
    You and I would have bid the same without one of the side honors.

    When can you catch up?

    Carl

    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 12:50:02 PM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    1D and after partners 1S bid 2H.(4th suit forcing) as you seem to have done.


    Op 8-4-2021 om 16:44 schreef judyo...@verizon.net:
    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:05:07 AM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    In every , more or less natural system the correct first round reply is 1D.
    Weak or strong, a jump to 2D shows a 6+ card suit.

    2H should be 4th suit forcing and so partner should have bid no trump.

    Co Wiersma

    Your "every" is a bid overbid.

    How do *you* show the poser of this hand below 3NT?

    Carl


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From judyorcarl@gmail.com@21:1/5 to judyorcarl@verizon.net on Thu Apr 8 17:13:24 2021
    A stranger might fear I lacked *both* side honors.

    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 6:33:57 PM UTC-4, judyorcarl@verizon.net wrote:
    You and I would have bid the same without one of the side honors.

    When can you catch up?

    Carl
    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 12:50:02 PM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    1D and after partners 1S bid 2H.(4th suit forcing) as you seem to have done.


    Op 8-4-2021 om 16:44 schreef judyo...@verizon.net:
    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:05:07 AM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    In every , more or less natural system the correct first round reply is 1D.
    Weak or strong, a jump to 2D shows a 6+ card suit.

    2H should be 4th suit forcing and so partner should have bid no trump. >>
    Co Wiersma

    Your "every" is a bid overbid.

    How do *you* show the poser of this hand below 3NT?

    Carl


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Co Wiersma@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 9 03:18:49 2021
    I do not know what is meant by "side honors"
    Neither do I know what is meant by "catching up"

    I do know that 4th suit forcing does not promise anything about "side
    honors": whatever that means!

    Co Wiersma

    Op 9-4-2021 om 02:13 schreef judyorcarl@verizon.net:
    A stranger might fear I lacked *both* side honors.

    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 6:33:57 PM UTC-4, judyorcarl@verizon.net wrote:
    You and I would have bid the same without one of the side honors.

    When can you catch up?

    Carl
    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 12:50:02 PM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    1D and after partners 1S bid 2H.(4th suit forcing) as you seem to have done.


    Op 8-4-2021 om 16:44 schreef judyo...@verizon.net:
    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:05:07 AM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    In every , more or less natural system the correct first round reply is 1D.
    Weak or strong, a jump to 2D shows a 6+ card suit.

    2H should be 4th suit forcing and so partner should have bid no trump. >>>>>
    Co Wiersma

    Your "every" is a bid overbid.

    How do *you* show the poser of this hand below 3NT?

    Carl


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From judyorcarl@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Co Wiersma on Fri Apr 9 11:55:56 2021
    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 9:30:02 PM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    I do not know what is meant by "side honors"
    Neither do I know what is meant by "catching up"

    I do know that 4th suit forcing does not promise anything about "side honors": whatever that means!

    Co Wiersma

    Exactly!

    You and I still have not given partner (a stranger!) the word that we are interested in slam. Or even confident of game.

    Partner is supposed to bid "naturally" at this point. What are the chances that his bid will give you and me enough information to place the contract?

    Because for sure it is too late for you and me to describe our holding. We have just run out of forcing bids!

    Absurd isn't it? A system that forces a 4333 hand to place the contract.

    Carl

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Co Wiersma@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 9 22:55:37 2021
    Op 9-4-2021 om 20:55 schreef judyorcarl@verizon.net:
    On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 9:30:02 PM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    I do not know what is meant by "side honors"
    Neither do I know what is meant by "catching up"

    I do know that 4th suit forcing does not promise anything about "side
    honors": whatever that means!

    Co Wiersma

    Exactly!

    You and I still have not given partner (a stranger!) the word that we are interested in slam. Or even confident of game.

    Partner is supposed to bid "naturally" at this point. What are the chances that his bid will give you and me enough information to place the contract?

    Because for sure it is too late for you and me to describe our holding. We have just run out of forcing bids!

    Absurd isn't it? A system that forces a 4333 hand to place the contract.

    Carl

    Most people play 4th suit forcing as forcing to game, though I do not.
    Anyway, partner should now somehow show extra's if partner has extra.
    Problem is of cause that there may be no universal acepted way to show
    extra's. Some will presume the principle of fast arrival, where others
    may expect a jump with extra's.

    Funnie thing I think that the only logical meaning of 4H be a splinter
    bid, probably showing a void in hearts.

    Co Wiersma

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From judyorcarl@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Co Wiersma on Sat Apr 10 06:46:56 2021
    On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 5:10:08 PM UTC-4, Co Wiersma wrote:
    Op 9-4-2021 om 20:55 schreef judyo...@verizon.net:

    Again, exactly!

    What do you do when your partner is a stranger?

    For what it's worth, I believe that "fast arrival," as presently understood, is an abomination.

    As invented by the Neapolitans, it went as follows: *after* a strain has been agreed, bidding at once to the level you are forced to showed nothing else to say. Nothing wrong with that principle.

    That's not what it means now. Now it is the bid that first agrees the strain that may be fast arrival. Not so bad if that said, "I am certain we must play in this strain, and I am bare minimum."

    But that's not what it says. It says, "It's OK to play in this strain, and I am minimum, but maybe not bare."

    Carl

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)