In the below position 8/5*(2) to make the 5 point is better than 8/5*/2 to avoid the blot on the 2 point.
I think Stick's 5 point adage has this type of thing in mind.
XGID=-bAabaDAB-B-bC-B-c-d------:0:0:1:33:4:13:3:0:1X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon 0
Score is X:4 O:13. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O | | O |
| X X O | | O |
| X O | | O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | X |
| | | X |
| O X X | | X O O |
| O X X X | | X O O O X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 138 O: 206 X-O: 4-13
Cube: 1
X to play 33
I made a horrible blunder in this position by splitting to the 5 point
with a hope of hitting a 2nd checker.
It's very unlikely that I would have made this play at DMP with gammons irrelevant.
I think it's the type of thing Stick means with his DMP rule.
His rule probably prevents others making this type of grotesque blunder.
Paul
XGID=a-BB-BC----bbCA---ac-bbBb-:1:-1:1:43:0:0:3:0:10
X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O | | O O O X O | +---+
| X | | O O O X O | | 2 |
| X | | O | +---+
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | |
| | | |
| | | X |
| O O | | X X X X |
| O O | | X X X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 137 O: 120 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 43
1. XG Roller+ 14/10 13/10 eq:+0.357
Player: 63.15% (G:32.71% B:0.83%)
Opponent: 36.85% (G:10.53% B:0.40%)
2. XG Roller+ 23/20 14/10 eq:+0.124 (-0.233)
Player: 57.52% (G:28.30% B:0.88%)
Opponent: 42.48% (G:17.55% B:0.65%)
3. 3-ply 14/7 eq:+0.184 (-0.173)
Player: 58.36% (G:28.01% B:0.75%)
Opponent: 41.64% (G:11.62% B:0.40%)
4. 2-ply 13/6 eq:+0.127 (-0.230)
Player: 56.57% (G:27.19% B:0.85%)
Opponent: 43.43% (G:12.67% B:0.47%)
5. 2-ply 14/10 6/3 eq:+0.093 (-0.264)
Player: 56.04% (G:25.00% B:0.66%)
Opponent: 43.96% (G:12.46% B:0.47%)
eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 11:52:16 AM UTC-4, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
I made a horrible blunder in this position by splitting to the 5 point with a hope of hitting a 2nd checker.
It's very unlikely that I would have made this play at DMP with gammons irrelevant.
I think it's the type of thing Stick means with his DMP rule.
His rule probably prevents others making this type of grotesque blunder.
Paul
XGID=a-BB-BC----bbCA---ac-bbBb-:1:-1:1:43:0:0:3:0:10
X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O | | O O O X O | +---+
| X | | O O O X O | | 2 |
| X | | O | +---+
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | |
| | | |
| | | X |
| O O | | X X X X |
| O O | | X X X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 137 O: 120 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 43
1. XG Roller+ 14/10 13/10 eq:+0.357
Player: 63.15% (G:32.71% B:0.83%)
Opponent: 36.85% (G:10.53% B:0.40%)
2. XG Roller+ 23/20 14/10 eq:+0.124 (-0.233)
Player: 57.52% (G:28.30% B:0.88%)
Opponent: 42.48% (G:17.55% B:0.65%)
3. 3-ply 14/7 eq:+0.184 (-0.173)
Player: 58.36% (G:28.01% B:0.75%)
Opponent: 41.64% (G:11.62% B:0.40%)
4. 2-ply 13/6 eq:+0.127 (-0.230)
Player: 56.57% (G:27.19% B:0.85%)
Opponent: 43.43% (G:12.67% B:0.47%)
5. 2-ply 14/10 6/3 eq:+0.093 (-0.264)
Player: 56.04% (G:25.00% B:0.66%)
Opponent: 43.96% (G:12.46% B:0.47%)
and how clear is it, they could steer themselves to better choices. It's very hard for a play to win so many extra games and not be the correct play since wins are worth 2x what gammon losses cost us. The dmp rule has various other applications but Tim'seXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10One of the best examples of what, to me, the rule is meant for was recently posted by Tim. (https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/U0XV30tIo94)
It's a play most people go the quiet route because humans by nature see the very worst of what could happen and get it in their heads "I'm going to lose so many gammons with this play" whereas if they were constantly questioning what the dmp play is
Stick
On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 11:52:16 AM UTC-4, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
I made a horrible blunder in this position by splitting to the 5 point with a hope of hitting a 2nd checker.
It's very unlikely that I would have made this play at DMP with gammons irrelevant.
I think it's the type of thing Stick means with his DMP rule.
His rule probably prevents others making this type of grotesque blunder.
Paul
XGID=a-BB-BC----bbCA---ac-bbBb-:1:-1:1:43:0:0:3:0:10
X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O | | O O O X O | +---+
| X | | O O O X O | | 2 |
| X | | O | +---+
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | |
| | | |
| | | X |
| O O | | X X X X |
| O O | | X X X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 137 O: 120 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 43
1. XG Roller+ 14/10 13/10 eq:+0.357
Player: 63.15% (G:32.71% B:0.83%)
Opponent: 36.85% (G:10.53% B:0.40%)
2. XG Roller+ 23/20 14/10 eq:+0.124 (-0.233)
Player: 57.52% (G:28.30% B:0.88%)
Opponent: 42.48% (G:17.55% B:0.65%)
3. 3-ply 14/7 eq:+0.184 (-0.173)
Player: 58.36% (G:28.01% B:0.75%)
Opponent: 41.64% (G:11.62% B:0.40%)
4. 2-ply 13/6 eq:+0.127 (-0.230)
Player: 56.57% (G:27.19% B:0.85%)
Opponent: 43.43% (G:12.67% B:0.47%)
5. 2-ply 14/10 6/3 eq:+0.093 (-0.264)
Player: 56.04% (G:25.00% B:0.66%)
Opponent: 43.96% (G:12.46% B:0.47%)
and how clear is it, they could steer themselves to better choices. It's very hard for a play to win so many extra games and not be the correct play since wins are worth 2x what gammon losses cost us. The dmp rule has various other applications but Tim'seXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10One of the best examples of what, to me, the rule is meant for was recently posted by Tim. (https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/U0XV30tIo94)
It's a play most people go the quiet route because humans by nature see the very worst of what could happen and get it in their heads "I'm going to lose so many gammons with this play" whereas if they were constantly questioning what the dmp play is
Stick
2) Sacrificing your own winning chances in the hope of picking up
extra gammons.
I'm not sure that category 2 so often leads to error.
"peps...@gmail.com" <pepstein5@gmail.com> writes:
2) Sacrificing your own winning chances in the hope of picking up
extra gammons.
[...]
I'm not sure that category 2 so often leads to error.
Like someone in our club put it: "It is always Gammon-Go!"
At least this leads to lots of drama which is why most of us like this
game. (-:
On 9/18/2022 12:42 PM, Axel Reichert wrote:
"peps...@gmail.com" <peps...@gmail.com> writes:
2) Sacrificing your own winning chances in the hope of picking up
extra gammons.
[...]
I'm not sure that category 2 so often leads to error.
Like someone in our club put it: "It is always Gammon-Go!"
At least this leads to lots of drama which is why most of us like this game. (-:I agree that category 2 errors are less common than category 1
errors. That's what I conjecture Stick was getting at, too.
---
Tim Chow
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