• Prime versus prime cube

    From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 16 08:32:47 2023
    XGID=-b-BBBBAAA--dBa--b-bbb-AA-:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O O X X |
    | X O | | O O O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | O | | |
    | O | | |
    | O | | X X X X O |
    | O X X X | | X X X X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 133 O: 157 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action

    ---
    Tim Chow

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ah...Clem@21:1/5 to Timothy Chow on Mon Oct 16 09:43:43 2023
    On 10/16/2023 8:32 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
    XGID=-b-BBBBAAA--dBa--b-bbb-AA-:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
     | X  O        O    |   | O  O  O     X  X |
     | X           O    |   | O  O  O          |  |                  |   |                  |
     |                  |   |                  |
     |                  |   |                  |
     |                  |BAR|                  |
     |                  |   |                  |
     | O                |   |                  |
     | O                |   |                  |
     | O                |   | X  X  X  X     O |
     | O        X  X  X |   | X  X  X  X     O |  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count  X: 133  O: 157 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action

    Supposedly all normal prime vs prime positions are takes. But it seems
    to me that if X makes a five prime vs O's broken four prime the market
    is lost. And since there are a bunch of rolls that do just that I'll
    ship it. D/T.

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to ah...Clem on Mon Oct 16 22:09:47 2023
    On Monday, October 16, 2023 at 9:43:48 AM UTC-4, ah...Clem wrote:
    On 10/16/2023 8:32 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
    XGID=-b-BBBBAAA--dBa--b-bbb-AA-:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O O X X |
    | X O | | O O O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | O | | |
    | O | | |
    | O | | X X X X O |
    | O X X X | | X X X X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 133 O: 157 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action
    Supposedly all normal prime vs prime positions are takes. But it seems
    to me that if X makes a five prime vs O's broken four prime the market
    is lost. And since there are a bunch of rolls that do just that I'll
    ship it. D/T.

    Basically the opponent will never have a pass next turn unless he rolls an anti joker.

    Stick

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 09:23:40 2023
    XGID=-b-BBBBAAA--dBa--b-bbb-AA-:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O O X X |
    | X O | | O O O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | O | | |
    | O | | |
    | O | | X X X X O |
    | O X X X | | X X X X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 133 O: 157 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action

    There are plenty of players against which it would be blunder not to
    cube here, because they would pass. Superficially, X's priming threat
    looks very dangerous, and he also has a few fly shots that hit O's blot. However, XG doesn't double here. Even if X rolls 21, which is one of
    his best rolls (23/22 8/7), O can usually take next turn. The main
    point, of course, is that O has some decent structure of her own to
    contain X's stragglers.

    Analyzed in Rollout
    No double
    Player Winning Chances: 59.52% (G:23.30% B:2.27%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 40.48% (G:10.43% B:0.53%)
    Double/Take
    Player Winning Chances: 59.64% (G:23.62% B:2.33%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 40.36% (G:10.48% B:0.54%)

    Cubeful Equities:
    No double: +0.448
    Double/Take: +0.355 (-0.093)
    Double/Pass: +1.000 (+0.552)

    Best Cube action: No double / Take
    Percentage of wrong pass needed to make the double decision right: 14.4%

    Rollout:
    1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
    Confidence No Double: ± 0.015 (+0.433..+0.464)
    Confidence Double: ± 0.023 (+0.333..+0.378)

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

    ---
    Tim Chow

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