• The Ancient Mariner's Position

    From pepstein5@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 29 14:11:49 2021
    Farewell, farewell thou Wedding Guest
    Be thou not afraid.
    He blitzeth best who doubleth best.
    Whether money or match be played.

    What cube action would the Ancient Mariner have recommended here?

    Paul

    XGID=ab-BBaB-CA-Ab-----BcbbbAA-:1:1:1:00:2:0:3:X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon
    0:10

    Score is X:2 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X | | O O O O X X |
    | X | | O O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | | |
    | X | | | +---+
    | O X | | X X X O | | 2 |
    | O X X X | | X O X X O | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 153 O: 161 X-O: 2-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X on roll, cube action

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to peps...@gmail.com on Sun Oct 31 18:58:24 2021
    On 10/29/2021 5:11 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
    Farewell, farewell thou Wedding Guest
    Be thou not afraid.
    He blitzeth best who doubleth best.
    Whether money or match be played.

    What cube action would the Ancient Mariner have recommended here?

    Paul

    XGID=ab-BBaB-CA-Ab-----BcbbbAA-:1:1:1:00:2:0:3:X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon 0:10

    Score is X:2 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X | | O O O O X X |
    | X | | O O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | | |
    | X | | | +---+
    | O X | | X X X O | | 2 |
    | O X X X | | X O X X O | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 153 O: 161 X-O: 2-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X on roll, cube action

    I would take this one. O has a strong board and X still has two
    stragglers, so O retains good winning chances even though X has
    good gammon chances. But if X hits and O fails to hit back then
    I think X loses his market. D/T for me.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pepstein5@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Mon Nov 1 03:57:22 2021
    On Sunday, October 31, 2021 at 10:58:27 PM UTC, Tim Chow wrote:
    On 10/29/2021 5:11 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
    Farewell, farewell thou Wedding Guest
    Be thou not afraid.
    He blitzeth best who doubleth best.
    Whether money or match be played.

    What cube action would the Ancient Mariner have recommended here?

    Paul

    XGID=ab-BBaB-CA-Ab-----BcbbbAA-:1:1:1:00:2:0:3:X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon 0:10

    Score is X:2 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X | | O O O O X X |
    | X | | O O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | | |
    | X | | | +---+
    | O X | | X X X O | | 2 |
    | O X X X | | X O X X O | +---+ +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 153 O: 161 X-O: 2-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X on roll, cube action
    I would take this one. O has a strong board and X still has two
    stragglers, so O retains good winning chances even though X has
    good gammon chances. But if X hits and O fails to hit back then
    I think X loses his market. D/T for me.

    I doubled this one quite confidently, although, like you, I expected the take. It's interesting that you see this as a take/pass problem rather than a double/hold problem. I thought (wrongly) that both actions were equally clear. Note that, if this was primarily a take/pass problem, the Mariner's verse would make
    no sense (but maybe it makes no sense anyway) because the Mariner is making an (admittedly obvious) point
    about blitzing, not defending against the blitz. (Or maybe I'm wrong to think this is a blitz as the opponent
    is anchored. But I don't think so. Blitzing means you aim to bring your checkers round to a winning position
    while your opponent is dancing -- a likely outcome here.)

    XG sees this (and I don't doubt it) as ND/T. This is surprising (to me and Tim) for a volatile position
    with our equity above 0.6 -- I'm sure there are plenty of market losers.
    In retrospect, the hold is probably because most of the market losers don't lead to terribly inefficient cubes
    (perhaps something like 1.2 passes is typical), and also because there are plenty of bad sequences
    where the opponent's cube ownership really hurts.
    I bet it's a big cube when the cube is centred but I have difficulty setting up the positions so I'm not
    going to variantize this.

    Paul

    Analyzed in Rollout
    No redouble
    Player Winning Chances: 63.64% (G:29.99% B:3.49%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 36.36% (G:14.01% B:1.22%)
    Redouble/Take
    Player Winning Chances: 63.40% (G:30.10% B:3.89%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 36.60% (G:14.17% B:1.15%)

    Cubeless Equities: No Double=+0.455, Double=+0.909

    Cubeful Equities:
    No redouble: +0.665
    Redouble/Take: +0.616 (-0.049)
    Redouble/Pass: +1.000 (+0.335)

    Best Cube action: No redouble / Take
    Percentage of wrong pass needed to make the double decision right: 11.4%

    Rollout:
    1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
    Confidence No Double: ± 0.014 (+0.651..+0.679)
    Confidence Double: ± 0.026 (+0.590..+0.641)

    Double Decision confidence: 100.0%
    Take Decision confidence: 100.0%

    Duration: 48 minutes 11 seconds

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to peps...@gmail.com on Mon Nov 1 08:08:24 2021
    On 11/1/2021 6:57 AM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
    It's interesting that you see this as a take/pass problem rather than a double/hold problem.

    I thought it was both. But I always evaluate the take/pass
    decisions first.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)