1. Forum
  2. Usenet
  3. REC.GAMES.BACKGAMMON

  • Step into the abyss?

    From Robert Zimmerman@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 20 08:28:45 2023
    XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O | | O O O |
    | O O | | O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | X X | | X X X |
    | O O X X | | X O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pepstein5@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Robert Zimmerman on Thu Apr 20 14:13:18 2023
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:28:47 PM UTC+1, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O | | O O O |
    | O O | | O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | X X | | X X X |
    | O O X X | | X O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    Sorry but I don't get why this is even a question.
    Surely, we have to hit?
    6/2 is an unthinkable burying of a checker.
    And 8/4 just exposes lots of blots for no purpose.
    I suppose it's plausible that a raw beginner might make
    6/2 a candidate for safety but there's nothing so much to
    be scared of and we're in great shape if the opponent
    dances.
    So we hit of course, and I don't get why this is even a question.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Zimmerman@21:1/5 to peps...@gmail.com on Thu Apr 20 14:36:37 2023
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 5:13:20 PM UTC-4, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:28:47 PM UTC+1, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O | | O O O |
    | O O | | O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | X X | | X X X |
    | O O X X | | X O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
    Sorry but I don't get why this is even a question.
    Surely, we have to hit?
    6/2 is an unthinkable burying of a checker.
    And 8/4 just exposes lots of blots for no purpose.
    I suppose it's plausible that a raw beginner might make
    6/2 a candidate for safety but there's nothing so much to
    be scared of and we're in great shape if the opponent
    dances.
    So we hit of course, and I don't get why this is even a question.

    Paul
    Stick, is that you?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pepstein5@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Robert Zimmerman on Thu Apr 20 16:32:27 2023
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 10:36:38 PM UTC+1, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 5:13:20 PM UTC-4, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:28:47 PM UTC+1, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O | | O O O |
    | O O | | O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | X X | | X X X |
    | O O X X | | X O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
    Sorry but I don't get why this is even a question.
    Surely, we have to hit?
    6/2 is an unthinkable burying of a checker.
    And 8/4 just exposes lots of blots for no purpose.
    I suppose it's plausible that a raw beginner might make
    6/2 a candidate for safety but there's nothing so much to
    be scared of and we're in great shape if the opponent
    dances.
    So we hit of course, and I don't get why this is even a question.

    Paul
    Stick, is that you?

    No, it's Paul. But Stick does use other names sometimes.
    And I'm sure I've been influenced by Stick's style.
    I personally can't imagine a good player playing anything else,
    but maybe I'm missing something.
    The other candidate is maybe 6/2 but it's been literally more than forty
    years since I burned anything of mine, and that was an accident when
    I was playing with matches.
    So why do you expect me to voluntarily burn my checkers??
    Yes, people do burn things sometimes (hence the need for fire departments)
    but this isn't usually done on purpose.
    If I burned my things so readily, I'd be destitute and I don't want that.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Zimmerman@21:1/5 to Robert Zimmerman on Sat Apr 22 05:12:39 2023
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 11:28:47 AM UTC-4, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O | | O O O |
    | O O | | O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | X X | | X X X |
    | O O X X | | X O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
    Rest easy. Put your lighters away. No need to burn your checkers. Though I don't think a 117 is criminal in the backgammon world. Anyone whose very worst mistakes were in that range would do pretty well in tournaments, I think.
    Bob

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O | | O O O |
    | O O | | O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | X X | | X X X |
    | O O X X | | X O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    1. XG Roller++ Bar/23 7/3* eq:-0.014
    Player: 47.78% (G:20.96% B:0.71%)
    Opponent: 52.22% (G:14.18% B:0.61%)

    2. XG Roller++ Bar/23 6/2 eq:-0.131 (-0.117)
    Player: 45.38% (G:11.80% B:0.19%)
    Opponent: 54.62% (G:8.81% B:0.25%)

    3. XG Roller++ Bar/23 8/4 eq:-0.738 (-0.724)
    Player: 32.74% (G:9.50% B:0.36%)
    Opponent: 67.26% (G:21.45% B:0.84%)


    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Timothy Chow on Sat Apr 22 09:53:43 2023
    On 4/21/2023 9:29 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
    On 4/20/2023 11:28 AM, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
      +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
      |    O        O  O |   | O     O        O |
      |    O        O    |   | O     O        O |
      |                  |   |       O          |
      |                  |   |                  |
      |                  | X |                  |
      |                  |BAR|                  |
      |                  |   | X                |
      |                  |   | X                |
      |                  |   | X           X    |
      |             X  X |   | X           X  X |
      | O        O  X  X |   | X        O  X  X |
      +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count  X: 93  O: 122 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    This looks awfully similar to a position I posted recently.
    Is there some subtle distinction that I'm missing?

    Looks like I wasn't missing anything. I posted this position
    on March 26.

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/zQpkEp0_8EM/m/riwtquELAgAJ

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pepstein5@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Robert Zimmerman on Sat Apr 22 08:06:29 2023
    On Saturday, April 22, 2023 at 1:12:41 PM UTC+1, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 11:28:47 AM UTC-4, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O | | O O O |
    | O O | | O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | X X | | X X X |
    | O O X X | | X O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
    Rest easy. Put your lighters away. No need to burn your checkers. Though I don't think a 117 is criminal in the backgammon world. Anyone whose very worst mistakes were in that range would do pretty well in tournaments, I think.
    Bob
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O | | O O O |
    | O O | | O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | X X | | X X X |
    | O O X X | | X O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42
    1. XG Roller++ Bar/23 7/3* eq:-0.014
    Player: 47.78% (G:20.96% B:0.71%)
    Opponent: 52.22% (G:14.18% B:0.61%)

    2. XG Roller++ Bar/23 6/2 eq:-0.131 (-0.117)
    Player: 45.38% (G:11.80% B:0.19%)
    Opponent: 54.62% (G:8.81% B:0.25%)

    3. XG Roller++ Bar/23 8/4 eq:-0.738 (-0.724)
    Player: 32.74% (G:9.50% B:0.36%)
    Opponent: 67.26% (G:21.45% B:0.84%)

    Indeed, I regularly make errors worth than 0.117.
    You can probably variantize the position to make 6/2 correct
    and tempt me into wrongly hitting.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Zimmerman@21:1/5 to Timothy Chow on Sat Apr 22 08:32:32 2023
    On Saturday, April 22, 2023 at 9:53:47 AM UTC-4, Timothy Chow wrote:
    On 4/21/2023 9:29 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
    On 4/20/2023 11:28 AM, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O | | O O O |
    | O O | | O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | X X | | X X X |
    | O O X X | | X O X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    This looks awfully similar to a position I posted recently.
    Is there some subtle distinction that I'm missing?

    Looks like I wasn't missing anything. I posted this position
    on March 26.

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/zQpkEp0_8EM/m/riwtquELAgAJ

    ---
    Tim Chow
    Too funny. Sorry about the plagiarism, Tim! I was going through files of positions I saved and clearly I saved this one because I liked it. Mea culpa.
    Bob

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)