I think it was Grunty but I'm not sure. Anyway, he posted something
about how you must take care when playing a roll of doubles and
all the things that can go wrong etc. And I was thinking "What a load of ...! Doubles aren't more difficult to play than any other type of roll. What
a ridiculous post!"
Now finally, after I've become a sadder but a wiser man, I realise
that I do indeed have a big issue with doubles. I've been losing
a lot of equity by missing plays that plays that move three checkers
to the same spot. For example, I completely missed the bot play
here even though it's completely obvious once I've seen it. Does
anyone else have a problem missing X/Y(3) plays? The good news is
that I did score sub 5 PR in the game overall, which is good by my standards.

Paul

XGID=-a----EBCAaAeB---b-d--b-A-:0:0:1:44:0:2:3:0:10
X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon

Score is X:0 O:2. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O O X |
| X O | | O O |
| | | O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| O | | X |
| O | | X |
| O X | | X |
| O X X | | X |
| O X O X X X | | X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 138 O: 150 X-O: 0-2
Cube: 1
X to play 44

1. XG Roller+ 11/7 8/4(3) eq:+0.552
Player: 60.74% (G:24.76% B:0.63%)
Opponent: 39.26% (G:8.15% B:0.32%)

2. XG Roller+ 24/20 13/9(2) 11/7 eq:+0.391 (-0.161)
Player: 59.59% (G:15.80% B:0.80%)
Opponent: 40.41% (G:7.48% B:0.15%)

3. 3-ply 8/4(2) 6/2(2) eq:+0.484 (-0.068)
Player: 59.93% (G:25.53% B:0.57%)
Opponent: 40.07% (G:9.51% B:0.56%)

4. 3-ply 13/5(2) eq:+0.446 (-0.105)
Player: 58.54% (G:21.36% B:0.89%)
Opponent: 41.46% (G:8.28% B:0.29%)

5. 3-ply 24/20 11/7 6/2(2) eq:+0.429 (-0.122)
Player: 59.63% (G:20.00% B:0.90%)
Opponent: 40.37% (G:9.25% B:0.28%)


eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

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On 10/27/2021 4:21 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:

Does anyone else have a problem missing X/Y(3) plays?

Sometimes, although I think I am more likely to miss plays
that move one checker N pips and another checker 3N pips
(when my roll is double N's).

---
Tim Chow

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On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 3:14:40 AM UTC+1, Tim Chow wrote:

On 10/27/2021 4:21 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:

Does anyone else have a problem missing X/Y(3) plays?

Sometimes, although I think I am more likely to miss plays
that move one checker N pips and another checker 3N pips
(when my roll is double N's).

Very similar (or identical) error in psychological terms, I think.

Paul

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On 10/28/2021 10:14 PM, Timothy Chow wrote:

On 10/27/2021 4:21 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:

Does anyone else have a problem missing X/Y(3) plays?

Sometimes, although I think I am more likely to miss plays
that move one checker N pips and another checker 3N pips
(when my roll is double N's).

My biggest errors are often doubles. "Play small doubles slowly" is
good advice. Maybe "Play all doubles slowly"

A lot of my errors with doubles involve failing to see the play that
advances one checker 3N pips.

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On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 5:21:51 PM UTC-3, Paul wrote:

I think it was Grunty but I'm not sure. Anyway, he posted something
about how you must take care when playing a roll of doubles and
all the things that can go wrong etc. And I was thinking "What a load of ...!
Doubles aren't more difficult to play than any other type of roll. What
a ridiculous post!"
Now finally, after I've become a sadder but a wiser man, I realise
that I do indeed have a big issue with doubles.

Yeah, often times I felt like being a decade ahead of my time on some matters ;-)
Here's the gem you referred to: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/bFGT2XBplx8

Shortly after, at Michael Crane's request I wrote a more developed set of articles on the subject. Those were hosted on his site, with nice graphics and all. But the site was recently taken over by someone else and they didn't bother to take care of the
articles, oh well...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/29/2021 12:19 PM, Grunty wrote:

Yeah, often times I felt like being a decade ahead of my time on some matters ;-)
Here's the gem you referred to: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/bFGT2XBplx8

Shortly after, at Michael Crane's request I wrote a more developed set of articles on the subject. Those were hosted on his site, with nice graphics and all. But the site was recently taken over by someone else and they didn't bother to take care of

the articles, oh well...

What was the site? Maybe the Wayback Machine archived your articles.

---
Tim Chow

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On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-3, Tim Chow wrote:

On 10/29/2021 12:19 PM, Grunty wrote:

Yeah, often times I felt like being a decade ahead of my time on some matters ;-)
Here's the gem you referred to: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/bFGT2XBplx8

Shortly after, at Michael Crane's request I wrote a more developed set of articles on the subject. Those were hosted on his site, with nice graphics and all. But the site was recently taken over by someone else and they didn't bother to take care of

the articles, oh well...

What was the site? Maybe the Wayback Machine archived your articles.

---
Tim Chow

http://www.backgammon-biba.co.uk
Now the site does exist but was taken by someone I don't know.
The 2 articles were interlinked, located in the Articles section of the site back then.
They are definitely worth recoverying, nicely developed content (by me) and nice visuals arranged by Michael.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/30/2021 11:57 AM, Grunty wrote:

http://www.backgammon-biba.co.uk
Now the site does exist but was taken by someone I don't know.
The 2 articles were interlinked, located in the Articles section of the site back then.
They are definitely worth recoverying, nicely developed content (by me) and nice visuals arranged by Michael.

Well, I was partially successful. The Wayback Machine did archive the
text of your articles, but unfortunately it apparently did not archive
the images, which means that the positions are missing. Unless you know
of some other source for the positions, this means that much of the
value of the articles has been lost.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100726043306/http://www.backgammon-biba.co.uk/GruntyPlayingDoublets.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20100726043301/http://www.backgammon-biba.co.uk/GruntyPlayingDoubles02.htm

---
Tim Chow

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On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 6:40:34 PM UTC-3, Tim Chow wrote:

On 10/30/2021 11:57 AM, Grunty wrote:

http://www.backgammon-biba.co.uk
Now the site does exist but was taken by someone I don't know.
The 2 articles were interlinked, located in the Articles section of the site back then.
They are definitely worth recoverying, nicely developed content (by me) and nice visuals arranged by Michael.

Well, I was partially successful. The Wayback Machine did archive the
text of your articles, but unfortunately it apparently did not archive
the images, which means that the positions are missing. Unless you know
of some other source for the positions, this means that much of the
value of the articles has been lost.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100726043306/http://www.backgammon-biba.co.uk/GruntyPlayingDoublets.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20100726043301/http://www.backgammon-biba.co.uk/GruntyPlayingDoubles02.htm

---
Tim Chow

Great finding Tim, thanks.
I think I'll be able to put this back together elsewhere. Will try and get some time for a quick set up.

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On Sunday, October 31, 2021 at 1:06:02 AM UTC+1, Grunty wrote:

On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 6:40:34 PM UTC-3, Tim Chow wrote:

On 10/30/2021 11:57 AM, Grunty wrote:

http://www.backgammon-biba.co.uk
Now the site does exist but was taken by someone I don't know.
The 2 articles were interlinked, located in the Articles section of the site back then.
They are definitely worth recoverying, nicely developed content (by me) and nice visuals arranged by Michael.

Well, I was partially successful. The Wayback Machine did archive the
text of your articles, but unfortunately it apparently did not archive
the images, which means that the positions are missing. Unless you know
of some other source for the positions, this means that much of the
value of the articles has been lost.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100726043306/http://www.backgammon-biba.co.uk/GruntyPlayingDoublets.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20100726043301/http://www.backgammon-biba.co.uk/GruntyPlayingDoubles02.htm

---
Tim Chow

Great finding Tim, thanks.
I think I'll be able to put this back together elsewhere. Will try and get some time for a quick set up.

I like the fact that one of the articles uses a position posted by Monty.
It's important to evaluate each post and each position separately on its own merits, and to recognise
that everyone might have something to say (ironically, this probably doesn't include me in this post) regardless
of their posting history.

Paul

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