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  • Primer for priming, anyone?

    From Robert Zimmerman@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 23 07:50:41 2023
    I'm trying to understand when to step up to the edge of a prime with a single back checker vs. staying back. Positions such as:

    XGID=--BbB-CBB----C--a-ccbbb-A-:1:1:1:21:1:0:0:7:10

    Score is X:1 O:0 7 pt.(s) match.
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O O O X |
    | X O | | O O O O |
    | X O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | X | +---+
    | X X | | X X O X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X O X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 123 O: 116 X-O: 1-0/7
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X to play 21

    Any good resources out there that might shed some light and lighten my load?

    Bob

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Zimmerman@21:1/5 to Robert Zimmerman on Thu Mar 23 07:56:06 2023
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 10:50:42 AM UTC-4, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    I'm trying to understand when to step up to the edge of a prime with a single back checker vs. staying back. Positions such as:

    XGID=--BbB-CBB----C--a-ccbbb-A-:1:1:1:21:1:0:0:7:10

    Score is X:1 O:0 7 pt.(s) match.
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O O O X |
    | X O | | O O O O |
    | X O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | X | +---+
    | X X | | X X O X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X O X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 123 O: 116 X-O: 1-0/7
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X to play 21

    Any good resources out there that might shed some light and lighten my load?

    Bob

    Versus this:

    XGID=---bB-DBC----Ca-abbcbb--A-:0:0:1:42:1:0:0:7:10

    Score is X:1 O:0 7 pt.(s) match.
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O O O | | O O O X |
    | X O O | | O O O |
    | X | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | X | | X |
    | X X | | X X O |
    | X X | | X X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 133 O: 130 X-O: 1-0/7
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to Robert Zimmerman on Thu Mar 23 11:57:48 2023
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 10:50:42 AM UTC-4, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    I'm trying to understand when to step up to the edge of a prime with a single back checker vs. staying back. Positions such as:

    XGID=--BbB-CBB----C--a-ccbbb-A-:1:1:1:21:1:0:0:7:10

    Score is X:1 O:0 7 pt.(s) match.
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O O O X |
    | X O | | O O O O |
    | X O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | X | +---+
    | X X | | X X O X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X O X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 123 O: 116 X-O: 1-0/7
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X to play 21

    Any good resources out there that might shed some light and lighten my load?

    Bob

    As an aside, when you're trying to understand a concept/comparing positions, you should make it unlimited play so there's no potential for outside noise due to the score.

    Stick

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Zimmerman@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Thu Mar 23 13:50:43 2023
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 2:57:50 PM UTC-4, Stick Rice wrote:
    On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 10:50:42 AM UTC-4, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    I'm trying to understand when to step up to the edge of a prime with a single back checker vs. staying back. Positions such as:

    XGID=--BbB-CBB----C--a-ccbbb-A-:1:1:1:21:1:0:0:7:10

    Score is X:1 O:0 7 pt.(s) match. +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O O O X |
    | X O | | O O O O |
    | X O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | X | +---+
    | X X | | X X O X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X O X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 123 O: 116 X-O: 1-0/7
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X to play 21

    Any good resources out there that might shed some light and lighten my load?

    Bob
    As an aside, when you're trying to understand a concept/comparing positions, you should make it unlimited play so there's no potential for outside noise due to the score.

    Stick

    Thanks. Noted.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Robert Zimmerman on Fri Mar 24 09:00:42 2023
    On 3/23/2023 10:56 AM, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    XGID=---bB-DBC----Ca-abbcbb--A-:0:0:1:42:1:0:0:7:10

    Score is X:1 O:0 7 pt.(s) match.
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O O O | | O O O X |
    | X O O | | O O O |
    | X | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | X | | X |
    | X X | | X X O |
    | X X | | X X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 133 O: 130 X-O: 1-0/7
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42

    Here the race is about even, but otherwise I'd analyze it similarly.
    In fact, here the alternative play 13/7 doesn't have the liability
    of leaving a direct shot, so I'm even less inclined to step up than
    in the other problem.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Robert Zimmerman on Fri Mar 24 08:56:56 2023
    On 3/23/2023 10:50 AM, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    I'm trying to understand when to step up to the edge of a prime with a single back checker vs. staying back. Positions such as:

    XGID=--BbB-CBB----C--a-ccbbb-A-:1:1:1:21:1:0:0:7:10

    Score is X:1 O:0 7 pt.(s) match.
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O O O X |
    | X O | | O O O O |
    | X O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | X | +---+
    | X X | | X X O X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X O X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 123 O: 116 X-O: 1-0/7
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X to play 21

    Any good resources out there that might shed some light and lighten my load?

    One of the first things I look at is the pip count. If I'm behind
    then I'm less inclined to step up. What am I trying to do, convert
    to a losing race?

    The next thing I look at is the opponent's attacking potential. Here,
    the opponent has a better board and an anchor, so is happy to attack.
    That also makes me not want to step up.

    Of course, in any position, there's always the question, what else are
    you going to play? If a move looks bad but everything else looks worse,
    then one is going to choose the least evil option. My inclination is
    to make the 5pt here. It does leave a direct shot but it gives us the
    best upside if we're missed.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Zimmerman@21:1/5 to Timothy Chow on Fri Mar 24 09:50:56 2023
    On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 9:00:45 AM UTC-4, Timothy Chow wrote:
    On 3/23/2023 10:56 AM, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
    XGID=---bB-DBC----Ca-abbcbb--A-:0:0:1:42:1:0:0:7:10

    Score is X:1 O:0 7 pt.(s) match. +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O O O | | O O O X |
    | X O O | | O O O |
    | X | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | X | | X |
    | X X | | X X O |
    | X X | | X X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 133 O: 130 X-O: 1-0/7
    Cube: 1
    X to play 42
    Here the race is about even, but otherwise I'd analyze it similarly.
    In fact, here the alternative play 13/7 doesn't have the liability
    of leaving a direct shot, so I'm even less inclined to step up than
    in the other problem.

    ---
    Tim Chow
    Those are helpful comments, Tim. Once again, I'm overcomplicating the game. I had ideas about avoiding being put up on the bar so that you could advance your checkers to avoid being gammoned. But after trying different positions, I can't really say there'
    s any truth to that idea except perhaps for rare cases. Other faulty notions littered my mind. Thanks for helping clean out the clutter.
    Bob

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)