• 51 to play from the bar

    From ah....Clem@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 14 14:14:57 2023
    XGID=-BbBDBCa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:51:0:0:3:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 87 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 51



    --
    Ah....Clem
    The future is fun, the future is fair.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to ah....Clem on Tue Jan 17 09:40:28 2023
    On 1/14/2023 2:14 PM, ah....Clem wrote:

    XGID=-BbBDBCa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:51:0:0:3:0:10

    X:Player 1   O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
     +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
     |    O        O    |   | O     O  O       | +---+
     |                  |   | O     O  O       | | 2 |
     |                  |   | O        O       | +---+
     |                  |   |                  |
     |                  | X |                  |
     |                  |BAR|                  |
     |                  |   |                  |
     |                  |   |       X          |
     |                  |   | X     X          |
     | O                |   | X  X  X  X  O  X |
     | O     X        O |   | X  X  X  X  O  X |
     +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count  X: 87  O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 51

    Well, we're trying to escape the straggler, so I start with bar/20.
    Our 10pt blot duplicates threes where it is, so 4/3 is my ace.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Benjamin Friesen@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Tue Jan 17 14:40:06 2023
    On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:40:32 AM UTC-5, Tim Chow wrote:
    On 1/14/2023 2:14 PM, ah....Clem wrote:

    XGID=-BbBDBCa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:51:0:0:3:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 87 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 51
    Well, we're trying to escape the straggler, so I start with bar/20.
    Our 10pt blot duplicates threes where it is, so 4/3 is my ace.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    I'm sure it's a minor detail but I prefer 6/5 over 4/3 as we're concerned with the bear off from here, not actually ever using those checkers to attack anything.

    Stick

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ah....Clem@21:1/5 to ah....Clem on Wed Jan 18 16:45:37 2023
    On 1/14/2023 2:14 PM, ah....Clem wrote:

    XGID=-BbBDBCa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:51:0:0:3:0:10

    X:Player 1   O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
     +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
     |    O        O    |   | O     O  O       | +---+
     |                  |   | O     O  O       | | 2 |
     |                  |   | O        O       | +---+
     |                  |   |                  |
     |                  | X |                  |
     |                  |BAR|                  |
     |                  |   |                  |
     |                  |   |       X          |
     |                  |   | X     X          |
     | O                |   | X  X  X  X  O  X |
     | O     X        O |   | X  X  X  X  O  X |
     +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count  X: 87  O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 51


    The only real decision here is whether to enter on the ace or the 20
    point. The difference between 6/5 and 4/3 after bar/20 is negligible,
    and after entering with the ace 10/5 is the only reasonable play.

    Why not enter with the five? Well, it exposes triple shot, plus the
    shots at the outfield blot. Granted, threes are duped but X is almost guaranteed a return trip to the bar. The thing is, if X enters on the
    ace point he's trapped behind a blockade which might be as bad as being
    on the bar.

    This came up in the facebook online "match" and Neil Kaz, Wil Snellings,
    and I all opted for entering with the ace. Host David Potter had this to
    say:



    Let's look at the position and try to figure out what's going on and why
    this is a bad play for us humans. We have a huge lead, the cube is
    turned and we have a much stronger board at the moment. Our game plan
    should be to race our checkers home but Black has a great outfield to
    hit us when we move our back checker out. Bar/24 10/5 keeps us safe next
    turn, but that still leaves us with the problem of getting that back
    checker home through Blacks mine field. We would also have the problem
    of rolling some bad low numbers which would force us to kill checkers to
    the 1 and 3pts. Now let's look at coming in on the 20pt. First thing to
    notice is that 3's are duplicated. Black's great numbers are
    44,61,63,31,33&11 which all make the 5pt on our head. But they would be
    great numbers anyway, even if we came in on the 24pt. There are however,
    plenty of Black rolls that are not very good or that hit and leave blots
    in hitting range. Bar/20 fits in with our game plan of running our back
    checker home and keeping a strong board. I don't know if this analysis
    will actually help anyone over the board as the best move is obviously
    so anti-human. But maybe there is something to be learned here.

    In the variant, I've moved O's outfield checker so that threes are not duplicated.


    XGID=-BbBDBCa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:51:0:0:3:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 87 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 51

    1. Rollout¹ Bar/20 6/5 eq:+0.118
    Player: 55.38% (G:27.66% B:1.64%)
    Opponent: 44.62% (G:7.63% B:0.26%)
    Confidence: ±0.009 (+0.109..+0.127) - [86.4%]
    Duration: 2 minutes 17 seconds

    2. Rollout¹ Bar/20 4/3 eq:+0.110 (-0.007)
    Player: 55.11% (G:27.90% B:1.69%)
    Opponent: 44.89% (G:7.79% B:0.26%)
    Confidence: ±0.009 (+0.101..+0.120) - [13.6%]
    Duration: 2 minutes 24 seconds

    3. Rollout¹ Bar/24 10/5 eq:+0.044 (-0.074)
    Player: 53.87% (G:21.57% B:0.83%)
    Opponent: 46.13% (G:5.16% B:0.17%)
    Confidence: ±0.008 (+0.036..+0.052) - [0.0%]
    Duration: 2 minutes 46 seconds

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller


    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    *///////////////////
    */ variant
    *///////////////////


    XGID=-BbBDBCa---Ab-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:51:0:0:3:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 88 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 51

    1. XG Roller++ Bar/20 11/10 eq:+0.171
    Player: 56.15% (G:27.65% B:1.55%)
    Opponent: 43.85% (G:7.20% B:0.27%)

    2. XG Roller++ Bar/24 11/6 eq:+0.055 (-0.116)
    Player: 53.49% (G:20.39% B:0.79%)
    Opponent: 46.51% (G:5.11% B:0.19%)

    3. XG Roller++ Bar/20 4/3 eq:+0.032 (-0.139)
    Player: 52.11% (G:25.92% B:1.48%)
    Opponent: 47.89% (G:9.13% B:0.34%)

    4. XG Roller++ Bar/20 6/5 eq:+0.030 (-0.141)
    Player: 52.02% (G:25.80% B:1.45%)
    Opponent: 47.98% (G:9.12% B:0.34%)

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    Without the duplication of threes, XG still massively favors entering
    with the five, but plays the ace as 11/10 to dupe threes instead of
    shuffling homeboard checkers.


    --
    Ah....Clem
    The future is fun, the future is fair.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Benjamin Friesen@21:1/5 to ah....Clem on Wed Jan 18 16:39:50 2023
    On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 4:45:39 PM UTC-5, ah....Clem wrote:
    On 1/14/2023 2:14 PM, ah....Clem wrote:

    XGID=-BbBDBCa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:51:0:0:3:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 87 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 51
    The only real decision here is whether to enter on the ace or the 20
    point. The difference between 6/5 and 4/3 after bar/20 is negligible,
    and after entering with the ace 10/5 is the only reasonable play.

    Why not enter with the five? Well, it exposes triple shot, plus the
    shots at the outfield blot. Granted, threes are duped but X is almost guaranteed a return trip to the bar. The thing is, if X enters on the
    ace point he's trapped behind a blockade which might be as bad as being
    on the bar.

    This came up in the facebook online "match" and Neil Kaz, Wil Snellings,
    and I all opted for entering with the ace. Host David Potter had this to say:



    Let's look at the position and try to figure out what's going on and why this is a bad play for us humans. We have a huge lead, the cube is
    turned and we have a much stronger board at the moment. Our game plan
    should be to race our checkers home but Black has a great outfield to
    hit us when we move our back checker out. Bar/24 10/5 keeps us safe next turn, but that still leaves us with the problem of getting that back
    checker home through Blacks mine field. We would also have the problem
    of rolling some bad low numbers which would force us to kill checkers to
    the 1 and 3pts. Now let's look at coming in on the 20pt. First thing to notice is that 3's are duplicated. Black's great numbers are 44,61,63,31,33&11 which all make the 5pt on our head. But they would be great numbers anyway, even if we came in on the 24pt. There are however, plenty of Black rolls that are not very good or that hit and leave blots
    in hitting range. Bar/20 fits in with our game plan of running our back checker home and keeping a strong board. I don't know if this analysis
    will actually help anyone over the board as the best move is obviously
    so anti-human. But maybe there is something to be learned here.

    In the variant, I've moved O's outfield checker so that threes are not duplicated.
    XGID=-BbBDBCa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:51:0:0:3:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 87 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 51
    1. Rollout¹ Bar/20 6/5 eq:+0.118
    Player: 55.38% (G:27.66% B:1.64%)
    Opponent: 44.62% (G:7.63% B:0.26%)
    Confidence: ±0.009 (+0.109..+0.127) - [86.4%]
    Duration: 2 minutes 17 seconds

    2. Rollout¹ Bar/20 4/3 eq:+0.110 (-0.007)
    Player: 55.11% (G:27.90% B:1.69%)
    Opponent: 44.89% (G:7.79% B:0.26%)
    Confidence: ±0.009 (+0.101..+0.120) - [13.6%]
    Duration: 2 minutes 24 seconds

    3. Rollout¹ Bar/24 10/5 eq:+0.044 (-0.074)
    Player: 53.87% (G:21.57% B:0.83%)
    Opponent: 46.13% (G:5.16% B:0.17%)
    Confidence: ±0.008 (+0.036..+0.052) - [0.0%]
    Duration: 2 minutes 46 seconds

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller


    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    *///////////////////
    */ variant
    *///////////////////


    XGID=-BbBDBCa---Ab-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:51:0:0:3:0:10
    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 88 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 51
    1. XG Roller++ Bar/20 11/10 eq:+0.171
    Player: 56.15% (G:27.65% B:1.55%)
    Opponent: 43.85% (G:7.20% B:0.27%)

    2. XG Roller++ Bar/24 11/6 eq:+0.055 (-0.116)
    Player: 53.49% (G:20.39% B:0.79%)
    Opponent: 46.51% (G:5.11% B:0.19%)

    3. XG Roller++ Bar/20 4/3 eq:+0.032 (-0.139)
    Player: 52.11% (G:25.92% B:1.48%)
    Opponent: 47.89% (G:9.13% B:0.34%)

    4. XG Roller++ Bar/20 6/5 eq:+0.030 (-0.141)
    Player: 52.02% (G:25.80% B:1.45%)
    Opponent: 47.98% (G:9.12% B:0.34%)

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    Without the duplication of threes, XG still massively favors entering
    with the five, but plays the ace as 11/10 to dupe threes instead of shuffling homeboard checkers.
    --
    Ah....Clem
    The future is fun, the future is fair.

    The best move is certainly not 'so anti-human'.

    Stick

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Benjamin Friesen on Thu Jan 19 09:26:07 2023
    On 1/18/2023 7:39 PM, Benjamin Friesen wrote:
    The best move is certainly not 'so anti-human'.

    Yes, it doesn't look anti-human to me either. This is not
    an isolated example IMO. The usual strategy is to move the
    straggler forward, and one has to come up with really good
    reasons not to. I can see that the opportunity to safety
    a blot is attractive here, but that just means that it's a
    tricky decision, not that it's "anti-human" to enter with
    the 5.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 19 09:37:07 2023
    Here are some variants.


    1. Move O's blot from her 8pt to her 9pt.

    XGID=-BbBDBCa--A-b-a-a--c-bc--A:1:-1:1:51:0:0:3:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 87 O: 145 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 51

    1. XG Roller++ Bar/24 10/5 eq:+0.128
    Player: 55.71% (G:20.85% B:0.77%)
    Opponent: 44.29% (G:4.25% B:0.15%)

    2. XG Roller++ Bar/20 10/9 eq:+0.068 (-0.060)
    Player: 52.67% (G:26.77% B:1.72%)
    Opponent: 47.33% (G:8.21% B:0.29%)

    3. XG Roller++ Bar/20 4/3 eq:+0.066 (-0.061)
    Player: 53.62% (G:25.45% B:1.37%)
    Opponent: 46.38% (G:8.62% B:0.32%)

    4. XG Roller++ Bar/20 6/5 eq:+0.060 (-0.067)
    Player: 53.42% (G:25.02% B:1.36%)
    Opponent: 46.58% (G:8.38% B:0.30%)

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release


    2. Change the roll to 61.

    XGID=-BbBDBCa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:61:0:0:3:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 87 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 61

    1. XG Roller++ Bar/18 eq:+0.111
    Player: 55.26% (G:24.57% B:1.26%)
    Opponent: 44.74% (G:8.00% B:0.30%)

    2. XG Roller++ Bar/24 10/4 eq:-0.011 (-0.122)
    Player: 51.30% (G:20.04% B:0.76%)
    Opponent: 48.70% (G:6.08% B:0.23%)

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release


    3. Change the roll to 61 and shift X's spares from his 4pt to his 5pt.

    XGID=-BbBBDCa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:61:0:0:3:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 89 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 61

    1. XG Roller++ Bar/18 eq:+0.156
    Player: 56.46% (G:24.99% B:1.36%)
    Opponent: 43.54% (G:7.13% B:0.24%)

    2. XG Roller++ Bar/24 10/4 eq:+0.127 (-0.029)
    Player: 55.47% (G:21.29% B:0.85%)
    Opponent: 44.53% (G:4.33% B:0.14%)

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release


    4. Change the roll to 52.

    XGID=-BbBDBCa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:52:0:0:3:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | X |
    | | | X X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 87 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 52

    1. XG Roller++ Bar/23 10/5 eq:+0.242
    Player: 59.19% (G:23.11% B:0.90%)
    Opponent: 40.81% (G:3.45% B:0.12%)

    2. XG Roller++ Bar/20 10/8 eq:+0.117 (-0.125)
    Player: 54.69% (G:26.34% B:1.37%)
    Opponent: 45.31% (G:7.39% B:0.26%)

    3. XG Roller++ Bar/18 eq:+0.111 (-0.131)
    Player: 55.26% (G:24.57% B:1.26%)
    Opponent: 44.74% (G:8.00% B:0.30%)

    4. XG Roller++ Bar/20 6/4 eq:+0.093 (-0.149)
    Player: 53.82% (G:26.39% B:1.45%)
    Opponent: 46.18% (G:7.99% B:0.30%)

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release


    5. Change the roll to 52 and shift all of X's spares to his 5pt.

    XGID=-BbBBEBa--A-b-a--a-c-bc--A:1:-1:1:52:0:0:3:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O | | O O O | +---+
    | | | O O O | | 2 |
    | | | O O | +---+
    | | | |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | O | | X X X X O X |
    | O X O | | X X X X O X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 88 O: 144 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, O own cube
    X to play 52

    1. XG Roller++ Bar/23 10/5 eq:+0.168
    Player: 57.02% (G:21.70% B:0.93%)
    Opponent: 42.98% (G:4.27% B:0.13%)

    2. XG Roller++ Bar/20 5/3 eq:+0.154 (-0.015)
    Player: 55.73% (G:27.23% B:1.52%)
    Opponent: 44.27% (G:7.40% B:0.27%)

    3. XG Roller++ Bar/20 10/8 eq:+0.105 (-0.063)
    Player: 54.45% (G:26.00% B:1.34%)
    Opponent: 45.55% (G:7.63% B:0.25%)

    4. XG Roller++ Bar/18 eq:+0.102 (-0.066)
    Player: 54.95% (G:24.40% B:1.31%)
    Opponent: 45.05% (G:7.90% B:0.27%)

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)