• Hit twice?

    From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 20 22:10:42 2021
    XGID=-a-A-cD-E--BaB---a-cbbb-A-:0:0:1:11:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O | | O O O O X |
    | X | | O O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | X | | |
    | X | | X |
    | X | | X O |
    | X X | | X O |
    | O X X | | X O X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 139 O: 147 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 11

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From MK@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 22 01:52:16 2021
    You're once. Twice. Three times a moron.
    But they love you. Oh how, they love you.

    MK

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ah...Clem@21:1/5 to Timothy Chow on Mon Oct 25 15:10:59 2021
    On 10/20/2021 10:10 PM, Timothy Chow wrote:
    XGID=-a-A-cD-E--BaB---a-cbbb-A-:0:0:1:11:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1   O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
     | X           O    |   | O  O  O  O     X |
     | X                |   | O  O  O  O       |  |                  |   | O                |
     |                  |   |                  |
     |                  |   |                  |
     |                  |BAR|                  |
     |             X    |   |                  |
     |             X    |   | X                |  |             X    |   | X  O             |  |    X        X    |   | X  O             |
     | O  X        X    |   | X  O     X     O |  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count  X: 139  O: 147 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 11

    1) Seems to me that unstacking the eight point while making the bar is
    more thematic than hitting a second checker.

    2) And with our runner stuck behind a four prime we need to step up to
    the edge while she's occupied getting off the roof.

    3) There's probably some consideration about her making a second anchor
    which might favor hitting twice, but I'm uncertain about that.

    I'll just hit, make the seven point, and step up with the runner. The
    twelve point is of limited utility.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to ah...Clem on Thu Oct 28 23:51:58 2021
    On 10/25/2021 3:10 PM, ah...Clem wrote:
    1) Seems to me that unstacking the eight point while making the bar is
    more thematic than hitting a second checker.

    2) And with our runner stuck behind a four prime we need to step up to
    the edge while she's occupied getting off the roof.

    3) There's probably some consideration about her making a second anchor
    which might favor hitting twice, but I'm uncertain about that.

    I'll just hit, make the seven point, and step up with the runner. The
    twelve point is of limited utility.

    XG agrees with your point #1, but one should be viewing O's four points
    not as a four-prime to be leaped, but as a four-point board to be feared
    (or at least, feared enough not to leave four blots lying around the
    board). I was only going to post bot info for two plays, but since you suggested a third play, I've included it as well.

    XGID=-a-A-cD-E--BaB---a-cbbb-A-:0:0:1:11:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O | | O O O O X |
    | X | | O O O O |
    | | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | X | | |
    | X | | X |
    | X | | X O |
    | X X | | X O |
    | O X X | | X O X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 139 O: 147 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 11

    1. Rollout¹ 13/12*(2) 8/7(2) eq:-0.228
    Player: 47.33% (G:10.37% B:0.47%)
    Opponent: 52.67% (G:21.43% B:0.91%)
    Confidence: ±0.019 (-0.247..-0.210) - [100.0%]

    2. Rollout¹ 13/12*(2) 3/1* eq:-0.318 (-0.090)
    Player: 45.25% (G:9.51% B:0.30%)
    Opponent: 54.75% (G:21.81% B:0.92%)
    Confidence: ±0.015 (-0.334..-0.303) - [0.0%]

    3. XG Roller++ 24/23 13/12* 8/7(2) eq:-0.643 (-0.415)
    Player: 39.75% (G:8.94% B:0.37%)
    Opponent: 60.25% (G:31.31% B:2.87%)

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 14 00:29:49 2021
    XGID=--a---DaC---eD-A-c-e-B--A-:0:0:1:65:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X X O | | O X X |
    | X O | | O X |
    | X O | | O |
    | X | | O |
    | | | O |
    | |BAR| |
    | O | | |
    | O | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O X O | | X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 181 O: 160 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 65

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ah...Clem@21:1/5 to Timothy Chow on Mon Nov 15 12:55:10 2021
    On 11/14/2021 12:29 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
    XGID=--a---DaC---eD-A-c-e-B--A-:0:0:1:65:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1   O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
     | X     X     O    |   | O     X        X |
     | X           O    |   | O     X          |
     | X           O    |   | O                |  | X                |   | O                |  |                  |   | O                |
     |                  |BAR|                  |
     | O                |   |                  |
     | O                |   | X                |  | O           X    |   | X                |  | O           X    |   | X                |  | O           X  O |   | X           O    |  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count  X: 181  O: 160 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 65

    I whack two since O has no board and X is way behind in the race. X also
    has an advanced anchor so return hits are not very costly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J R@21:1/5 to ah...Clem on Mon Nov 15 14:32:15 2021
    On Monday, November 15, 2021 at 12:55:15 PM UTC-5, ah...Clem wrote:
    On 11/14/2021 12:29 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
    XGID=--a---DaC---eD-A-c-e-B--A-:0:0:1:65:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X X O | | O X X |
    | X O | | O X |
    | X O | | O |
    | X | | O |
    | | | O |
    | |BAR| |
    | O | | |
    | O | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O X O | | X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 181 O: 160 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 65
    I whack two since O has no board and X is way behind in the race. X also
    has an advanced anchor so return hits are not very costly.

    Are you trying to blitz here? Are you hitting the second checker in order to keep the opponent from doing something otherwise significant? (usually on his side of the board, like cover a blot or attack himself)

    Stick

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 16 09:39:58 2021
    XGID=--a---DaC---eD-A-c-e-B--A-:0:0:1:65:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X X O | | O X X |
    | X O | | O X |
    | X O | | O |
    | X | | O |
    | | | O |
    | |BAR| |
    | O | | |
    | O | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O X O | | X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 181 O: 160 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 65

    Hitting with the 6 is pretty clear, but the question is whether
    X has a better 5 to play. X doesn't have enough material in the
    zone (8 checkers) to carry out an effective blitz, so 7/2* is not
    a particularly attractive game plan, and the most obvious
    alternative 15/10 gives O about the same number of return shots
    (15 versus 13, I think).

    I've included a variant where the top two plays roll out to about
    the same equity. In the variant, the alternative to hitting twice
    is to play 13/8, which isn't as useful as 15/10, and also there is
    an extra checker in the zone for attacking purposes.

    1. Rollout¹ 15/10 13/7* eq:+0.057
    Player: 51.09% (G:14.97% B:0.64%)
    Opponent: 48.91% (G:12.73% B:0.50%)
    Confidence: ±0.016 (+0.041..+0.073) - [100.0%]

    2. Rollout¹ 13/8 13/7* eq:+0.010 (-0.047)
    Player: 50.00% (G:13.98% B:0.54%)
    Opponent: 50.00% (G:13.25% B:0.56%)
    Confidence: ±0.015 (-0.005..+0.026) - [0.0%]

    3. Rollout¹ 13/7* 7/2* eq:-0.022 (-0.079)
    Player: 49.06% (G:14.58% B:0.57%)
    Opponent: 50.94% (G:13.33% B:0.54%)
    Confidence: ±0.017 (-0.039..-0.005) - [0.0%]

    4. Rollout¹ 21/15 13/8 eq:-0.086 (-0.142)
    Player: 48.22% (G:11.39% B:0.45%)
    Opponent: 51.78% (G:13.50% B:0.58%)
    Confidence: ±0.014 (-0.099..-0.072) - [0.0%]

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

    -------
    Variant
    -------

    XGID=--a---EaC---eD---c-e-B--A-:0:0:1:65:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O | | O X X |
    | X O | | O X |
    | X O | | O |
    | X | | O |
    | | | O |
    | |BAR| |
    | O | | X |
    | O | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O X O | | X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 172 O: 160 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 65

    1. Rollout¹ 13/7* 7/2* eq:+0.071
    Player: 50.65% (G:15.83% B:0.50%)
    Opponent: 49.35% (G:11.43% B:0.47%)
    Confidence: ±0.016 (+0.055..+0.087) - [54.9%]

    2. Rollout¹ 13/8 13/7* eq:+0.069 (-0.001)
    Player: 50.68% (G:15.44% B:0.62%)
    Opponent: 49.32% (G:11.59% B:0.51%)
    Confidence: ±0.017 (+0.052..+0.086) - [45.1%]

    3. Rollout¹ 24/13 eq:+0.018 (-0.053)
    Player: 49.91% (G:10.55% B:0.34%)
    Opponent: 50.09% (G:7.97% B:0.29%)
    Confidence: ±0.011 (+0.007..+0.030) - [0.0%]

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 11 21:13:12 2022
    XGID=--a---E-CA-abCA--acb-cB-b-:0:0:1:52:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X X O O | | O O X O |
    | X O | | O O X O |
    | X O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | X | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O O X X | | X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 160 O: 118 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 52

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 14 22:38:02 2022
    XGID=--a---E-CA-abCA--acb-cB-b-:0:0:1:52:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X X O O | | O O X O |
    | X O | | O O X O |
    | X O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | X | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O O X X | | X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 160 O: 118 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 52

    Hitting twice almost equalizes the pip count, but leaving five blots
    around the board when we're outboarded is a bit reckless, even when
    O temporarily has two checkers on the bar. It would still be worth
    considering if there were no good alternative, but 13/11* 14/9 cleans
    up nicely and makes a good point. (Compare with the variant below.)

    1. Rollout¹ 14/9 13/11* eq:+0.137
    Player: 53.59% (G:14.74% B:0.62%)
    Opponent: 46.41% (G:14.21% B:0.36%)
    Confidence: ±0.014 (+0.124..+0.151) - [100.0%]

    2. Rollout¹ 22/17* 13/11* eq:+0.023 (-0.114)
    Player: 52.71% (G:14.36% B:0.79%)
    Opponent: 47.29% (G:22.29% B:1.66%)
    Confidence: ±0.015 (+0.009..+0.038) - [0.0%]

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

    -------
    Variant
    -------

    XGID=--a---E-C-AabCA--acb-cB-b-:0:0:1:52:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X X O O | | O O X O |
    | X O | | O O X O |
    | X O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | X |
    | | | X |
    | X | | X |
    | O X | | X |
    | O O X X | | X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 161 O: 118 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 52

    1. Rollout¹ 22/17* 13/11* eq:-0.006
    Player: 52.05% (G:14.37% B:0.82%)
    Opponent: 47.95% (G:22.77% B:1.59%)
    Confidence: ±0.014 (-0.020..+0.008) - [100.0%]

    2. Rollout¹ 14/9 13/11* eq:-0.061 (-0.055)
    Player: 49.51% (G:13.28% B:0.57%)
    Opponent: 50.49% (G:18.90% B:0.60%)
    Confidence: ±0.014 (-0.075..-0.046) - [0.0%]

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 25 09:21:24 2024
    XGID=--a-CaC-BB--cB-b-c-cbB--A-:0:0:1:63:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O X X |
    | X O O | | O O X |
    | O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | O | | X X |
    | O X X | | X X |
    | O X X | | X O X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 156 O: 154 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 63

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 27 09:05:51 2024
    XGID=--a-CaC-BB--cB-b-c-cbB--A-:0:0:1:63:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O X X |
    | X O O | | O O X |
    | O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | O | | X X |
    | O X X | | X X |
    | O X X | | X O X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 156 O: 154 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 63

    X has ten checkers in the zone, which is often enough to justify a blitz attempt. However, X has only a two-point board, and O's forward position
    has no weaknesses, so it's not that easy for the blitz to succeed. Also,
    X has a strong alternative play of advancing his anchor to O's bar
    point.

    See the variant for a position where attacking is a more viable plan.

    1. Rollout¹ 24/18 21/18 eq:-0.087
    Player: 48.00% (G:10.60% B:0.37%)
    Opponent: 52.00% (G:13.01% B:0.51%)
    Confidence: ±0.013 (-0.100..-0.075) - [100.0%]

    2. Rollout¹ 8/5* 8/2* eq:-0.229 (-0.142)
    Player: 43.41% (G:16.59% B:0.59%)
    Opponent: 56.59% (G:16.85% B:0.95%)
    Confidence: ±0.019 (-0.248..-0.211) - [0.0%]

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

    -------
    Variant
    -------

    XGID=--aBCaC-B---cB-b-c-cbB--A-:0:0:1:63:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | X O O | | O O X X |
    | X O O | | O O X |
    | O | | O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | O | | X X |
    | O X | | X X X |
    | O X | | X O X X O |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 144 O: 154 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X to play 63

    1. Rollout¹ 8/5* 8/2* eq:+0.087
    Player: 48.71% (G:24.36% B:0.59%)
    Opponent: 51.29% (G:14.51% B:0.81%)
    Confidence: ±0.010 (+0.077..+0.097) - [99.2%]

    2. Rollout¹ 24/18 21/18 eq:+0.070 (-0.017)
    Player: 51.48% (G:15.38% B:0.58%)
    Opponent: 48.52% (G:12.96% B:0.53%)
    Confidence: ±0.010 (+0.060..+0.079) - [0.8%]

    ¹ 2592 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)