If you wanted to analyse a bunch of games to accumulate stats on
certain types of checker plays or cube actions at various stages of
the game, (i.e. opening, early, middle, late, closing), how would you
try to recognise those stages?
after 25 rolls we can assume that we are in the bearing off stage..?
Can we tell anything from the psition ID's?
MK <murat@compuplus.net> writes:
If you wanted to analyse a bunch of games to accumulate stats on
certain types of checker plays or cube actions at various stages of
the game, (i.e. opening, early, middle, late, closing), how would you
try to recognise those stages?
GNU Backgammon has several evaluators, IIRC at least one for pure races
and one for crashed positions apart from the "standard" evaluation.
after 25 rolls we can assume that we are in the bearing off stage..?
No. It might be a backgame or a last man hanging out for a shot etc.
Can we tell anything from the psition ID's?
Obviously, because it encodes the full state of checkers on the board.
MK <mu...@compuplus.net> writes:
If you wanted to analyse a bunch of games to
accumulate stats on certain types of checker
plays or cube actions at various stages of the
game, (i.e. opening, early, middle, late, closing),
how would you try to recognise those stages?
GNU Backgammon has several evaluators, IIRC
at least one for pure races and one for crashed
positions apart from the "standard" evaluation.
after 25 rolls we can assume that we are in the
bearing off stage..?
No. It might be a backgame or a last man hanging
out for a shot etc.
Can we tell anything from the psition ID's?
Obviously, because it encodes the full state of
checkers on the board.
On 12/14/2022 7:40 AM, Axel Reichert wrote:
MK <mu...@compuplus.net> writes:
Can we tell anything from the psition ID's?
Obviously, because it encodes the full state
of checkers on the board.
What I think Murat is asking is how to quickly
process the transcript of a large number of
games and produce several separate lists of
positions, categorized according to type. He
suggested "opening, early, middle, late, closing"
..... you just have to decide when to cut off the
opening (first four rolls of the game, perhaps?).
But other types of positions aren't necessarily
so easy to codify into a set of simple rules that
you can program easily.
On December 14, 2022 at 6:48:44 AM UTC-7, Tim Chow wrote:
On 12/14/2022 7:40 AM, Axel Reichert wrote:
MK <mu...@compuplus.net> writes:
Can we tell anything from the psition ID's?
On Thursday, 15 December 2022 at 00:11:07 UTC, MK wrote:
On December 14, 2022 at 6:48:44 AM UTC-7, Tim Chow wrote:
On 12/14/2022 7:40 AM, Axel Reichert wrote:
MK <mu...@compuplus.net> writes:
I recently tried some quick and dirty experiments along these lines.Can we tell anything from the psition ID's?
With the recent growing sophistication of AIs I had some hopes for automatic position ID classification (backgame, holding, racing cubes etc).
Unfortunately chatGPT and the new-ish Google Bard both seem to misinterpret (despite their confidence voices), even when directed to the URL with explicit instructions for gnubg ID encoding .
I have heard they perform much better at interpreting chess positions than backgammon positions. Maybe there was an element of internal human direction from the chatGPT Devs to improve performance because of the higher profile of chess.
IMO, it will need some more specific, focussed training to become proficient at interpreting and bulk classifying backgammon positions from IDs.
However, if this ever happens, I think it will be extremely useful.
Does anybody have any contacts in these companies?
On Thursday, 15 December 2022 at 00:11:07 UTC, MK wrote:
Can we tell anything from the psition ID's?
I recently tried some quick and dirty experiments
along these lines. .....
IMO, it will need some more specific, focussed
training to become proficient at interpreting and
bulk classifying backgammon positions from IDs.
However, if this ever happens, I think it will be
extremely useful.
On 12/14/2022 7:40 AM, Axel Reichert wrote:
MK <mu...@compuplus.net> writes:
Can we tell anything from the psition ID's?
Obviously, because it encodes the full state
of checkers on the board.
Well, it's not possible to tell from the state of
the checkers on the board how many moves
have occurred since the start of the game.
With the recent growing sophistication of AIs I had some hopes for automatic position ID classification (backgame, holding, racing cubes etc).Do we *really* need an AI to categorize a holding game, a backgame or a racing game?
Unfortunately chatGPT and the new-ish Google Bard both seem to misinterpret (despite their confidence voices), even when directed to the URL with explicit instructions for gnubg ID encoding .chatGpt more or less calculates the next word by probabilities and it is absolutely amazing how well that works, but you shouldn't make the error to believe that chatGPT knows anything
I have heard they perform much better at interpreting chess positions than backgammon positions. Maybe there was an element of internal human direction from the chatGPT Devs to improve performance because of the higher profile of chess.A modern chess program looks some dozen moves in the future, BG bots at most 10, having a good understanding even when looking just at the board. Which bots are then better in interpreting positions (I haven't looked deeply at Lc0 or the recent NN
sebalotek schrieb am 1. April 2023 um 03:56:41 UTC+2:
With the recent growing sophistication of AIs
I had some hopes for automatic position ID
classification (backgame, holding, racing cubes etc).
Do we *really* need an AI to categorize a holding
game, a backgame or a racing game?
And how do you want to train a bot on that? .....
But even then the categories might not make sense
to humans (e.g. if you have a NN discriminating
between cats and dogs, do you belive there are
easy rules extractable from the net?)
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