• How do you figure this recube action? (DGID_0209)

    From BlueDice@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 6 02:13:45 2022
    XGID=aBBBBBA-AA---------cdcdB--:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
    X:Player 1 O:Player 2

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O |
    | | | O O |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | | |
    | | | | +---+
    | | | X X X X X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X X X X X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 99 O: 87 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X on roll, cube action

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pepstein5@gmail.com@21:1/5 to BlueDice on Tue Dec 6 05:05:41 2022
    On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:13:47 AM UTC, BlueDice wrote:
    XGID=aBBBBBA-AA---------cdcdB--:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
    X:Player 1 O:Player 2

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O |
    | | | O O |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | | |
    | | | | +---+
    | | | X X X X X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X X X X X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 99 O: 87 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X on roll, cube action

    Monster cube for sure. But I'm not at all sure if it's a pass or a take.
    My instant reaction was a pass because O is hoping that we fail to cover and
    O enters and that seems like a lot to hope for.
    For simplicity, I would assume that this parlay is winning for O when O turns the cube.
    And that parlay happens with probability 5/12 * 11/36 = 55/432.
    Hmmm, we're only halfway to 25% even after accounting for the underdog's main hope.
    O can win by a marathon sequence of X failing to roll 5 or 6 but that's not enough.
    So not only is my initial reaction a pass, but my answer is a pass.

    As when I started posting, I'm sure about the cube but not sure if it's a take or a pass.
    Of course, this is not TG.

    D/P for me.

    Paul

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to BlueDice on Tue Dec 6 08:11:29 2022
    On 12/6/2022 5:13 AM, BlueDice wrote:
    XGID=aBBBBBA-AA---------cdcdB--:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
    X:Player 1 O:Player 2

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O |
    | | | O O |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | | |
    | | | | +---+
    | | | X X X X X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X X X X X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 99 O: 87 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X on roll, cube action

    The closest reference position I have is one checker closed out
    versus one checker behind a five-prime. There, it's a take unless
    the doubler has 20+ spare pips to play with.

    Compared to that situation, the situation is both better and worse
    in various ways. In X's favor, he is behind just a four-prime,
    which is much easier to leap than a five-prime. In O's favor, she
    is not yet closed out, and X has very few spare pips to play unless
    he escapes a back checker. Also, X has two checkers back rather
    than one, although this is not that big a difference since if X
    jumps one checker out, he'll gain time to get the other one out.

    So we can say this: if X rolls a joker, covering and jumping out,
    then it's a huge pass. If X covers but doesn't jump out and doesn't
    crack his board, then I think it's probably a pass too, but at most
    a close pass. If X rolls something that lets him jump out but not
    cover, then I think he's going to lift the blot. That might still
    be a take even if O dances, but I'm not sure.

    Does X have any anti-jokers? 44 of course, and 41.

    Putting all this together, I'd say it's definitely not too good.
    I would take but am not sure, and would definitely double.

    ---
    Tim Chow

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to BlueDice on Tue Dec 6 17:13:24 2022
    On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 5:13:47 AM UTC-5, BlueDice wrote:
    XGID=aBBBBBA-AA---------cdcdB--:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
    X:Player 1 O:Player 2

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O |
    | | | O O |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | | |
    | | | | +---+
    | | | X X X X X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X X X X X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 99 O: 87 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X on roll, cube action

    Can't believe people are thinking about passing this.

    Stick

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BlueDice@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Wed Dec 7 05:12:17 2022
    On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 1:13:25 AM UTC, Stick Rice wrote:
    On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 5:13:47 AM UTC-5, BlueDice wrote:
    XGID=aBBBBBA-AA---------cdcdB--:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
    X:Player 1 O:Player 2

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O |
    | | | O O |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | | |
    | | | | +---+
    | | | X X X X X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X X X X X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 99 O: 87 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X on roll, cube action
    Can't believe people are thinking about passing this.

    Stick

    XGR++ Result
    Easy take says the bot.

    Analyzed in XG Roller++
    Player Winning Chances: 72.69% (G:2.65% B:0.04%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 27.31% (G:6.57% B:0.42%)

    Cubeless Equities: No Double=+0.411, Double=+0.829

    Cubeful Equities:
    No redouble: +0.636 (-0.064)
    Redouble/Take: +0.700
    Redouble/Pass: +1.000 (+0.300)

    Best Cube action: Redouble / Take

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 7 09:12:35 2022
    Below is a variant for comparison.

    XGID=aBBBBAB--AA--------cdcdB--:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O X |
    | | | O O O O |
    | | | O O |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | O | |
    | | | |
    | | | | +---+
    | | | X X X X X | | 2 |
    | X X | | X X X X X X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 102 O: 87 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X on roll, cube action

    Analyzed in Rollout
    No redouble
    Player Winning Chances: 78.06% (G:2.93% B:0.04%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 21.94% (G:5.28% B:0.33%)
    Redouble/Take
    Player Winning Chances: 79.32% (G:2.61% B:0.04%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 20.68% (G:5.51% B:0.48%)

    Cubeful Equities:
    No redouble: +0.799 (-0.200)
    Redouble/Take: +1.000
    Redouble/Pass: +1.000 (+0.000)

    Best Cube action: Redouble / Take

    Rollout:
    5184 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
    Confidence No Double: ± 0.002 (+0.797..+0.802)
    Confidence Double: ± 0.004 (+0.995..+1.004)

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

    ---
    Tim Chow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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