• Coming under the gun

    From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 13 09:17:35 2022
    XGID=-CBC-BB-B--aca-a-cbd-----A:1:1:1:22:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O |
    | O O | | O |
    | O | | O |
    | | | O |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | O | | X X | +---+
    | O X | | X X X X X | | 2 |
    | O O X | | X X X X X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 79 O: 137 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X to play 22

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 15 08:19:14 2022
    XGID=-CBC-BB-B--aca-a-cbd-----A:1:1:1:22:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O |
    | O O | | O |
    | O | | O |
    | | | O |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | O | | X X | +---+
    | O X | | X X X X X | | 2 |
    | O O X | | X X X X X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 79 O: 137 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X to play 22

    Of course the first two 2's are bar/21, "coming under the gun."
    X is trying to bring home the straggler and his board is much
    stronger than O's. The subject line was intended to disguise
    slightly the real question, which is how to play the remaining
    two 2's.

    I was surprised to see that XG favors 6/4(2), since normally
    the 6pt is such a good point to have. I think the point is that
    with average luck, X is going to have to crunch further before
    he brings his straggler home, and we should be thinking about
    how to preserve a good board for as long as possible. If X plays
    8/4 instead, chances are he'll have to break a home-board point
    soon, so the main alternative to 6/4(2) is 8/6(2). 8/6(2) gives X
    fewer spare pips to play before he has to break a home-board point,
    but it also kills sixes. Not an easy tradeoff to assess IMO, but
    as I said, XG favors 6/4(2).

    1. Rollout¹ Bar/21 6/4(2) eq:+0.308
    Player: 52.64% (G:19.08% B:0.09%)
    Opponent: 47.36% (G:2.74% B:0.06%)
    Confidence: ±0.008 (+0.300..+0.316) - [100.0%]

    2. Rollout¹ Bar/21 8/6(2) eq:+0.254 (-0.054)
    Player: 50.75% (G:18.35% B:0.06%)
    Opponent: 49.25% (G:3.33% B:0.09%)
    Confidence: ±0.008 (+0.246..+0.262) - [0.0%]

    3. Rollout¹ Bar/21 8/4 eq:+0.222 (-0.086)
    Player: 49.58% (G:18.77% B:0.10%)
    Opponent: 50.42% (G:3.74% B:0.10%)
    Confidence: ±0.010 (+0.212..+0.232) - [0.0%]

    4. Rollout¹ Bar/21 8/6 3/1 eq:+0.221 (-0.087)
    Player: 50.13% (G:17.25% B:0.06%)
    Opponent: 49.87% (G:3.78% B:0.09%)
    Confidence: ±0.008 (+0.213..+0.230) - [0.0%]

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From ah...Clem@21:1/5 to Timothy Chow on Tue Nov 15 13:52:06 2022
    On 11/13/2022 9:17 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
    XGID=-CBC-BB-B--aca-a-cbd-----A:1:1:1:22:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
     | O     O     O  O |   | O                |  |             O  O |   | O                |  |             O    |   | O                |  |                  |   | O                |
     |                  | X |                  |
     |                  |BAR|                  |
     |                  |   |                  |
     |                  |   |                  |
     | O                |   |          X     X | +---+
     | O           X    |   | X  X     X  X  X | | 2 |
     | O  O        X    |   | X  X     X  X  X | +---+  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count  X: 79  O: 137 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X to play 22

    With X's strong board, loose hits are not so advantageous for O and may
    well be wrong. 23/21 exposes a quadruple shot, but not all that many are
    POH. Seems like the game plan is to run or hit a shot and staying back
    on the 23 will make it more likely that X's nice board will crack.

    bar/21 8/6(2)

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Tue Nov 15 14:32:38 2022
    On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 8:19:16 AM UTC-5, Tim Chow wrote:
    XGID=-CBC-BB-B--aca-a-cbd-----A:1:1:1:22:0:0:0:0:10

    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O |
    | O O | | O |
    | O | | O |
    | | | O |
    | | X | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | O | | X X | +---+
    | O X | | X X X X X | | 2 |
    | O O X | | X X X X X | +---+
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 79 O: 137 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 2, X own cube
    X to play 22
    Of course the first two 2's are bar/21, "coming under the gun."
    X is trying to bring home the straggler and his board is much
    stronger than O's. The subject line was intended to disguise
    slightly the real question, which is how to play the remaining
    two 2's.

    I was surprised to see that XG favors 6/4(2), since normally
    the 6pt is such a good point to have. I think the point is that
    with average luck, X is going to have to crunch further before
    he brings his straggler home, and we should be thinking about
    how to preserve a good board for as long as possible. If X plays
    8/4 instead, chances are he'll have to break a home-board point
    soon, so the main alternative to 6/4(2) is 8/6(2). 8/6(2) gives X
    fewer spare pips to play before he has to break a home-board point,
    but it also kills sixes. Not an easy tradeoff to assess IMO, but
    as I said, XG favors 6/4(2).

    1. Rollout¹ Bar/21 6/4(2) eq:+0.308
    Player: 52.64% (G:19.08% B:0.09%)
    Opponent: 47.36% (G:2.74% B:0.06%)
    Confidence: ±0.008 (+0.300..+0.316) - [100.0%]

    2. Rollout¹ Bar/21 8/6(2) eq:+0.254 (-0.054)
    Player: 50.75% (G:18.35% B:0.06%)
    Opponent: 49.25% (G:3.33% B:0.09%)
    Confidence: ±0.008 (+0.246..+0.262) - [0.0%]

    3. Rollout¹ Bar/21 8/4 eq:+0.222 (-0.086)
    Player: 49.58% (G:18.77% B:0.10%)
    Opponent: 50.42% (G:3.74% B:0.10%)
    Confidence: ±0.010 (+0.212..+0.232) - [0.0%]

    4. Rollout¹ Bar/21 8/6 3/1 eq:+0.221 (-0.087)
    Player: 50.13% (G:17.25% B:0.06%)
    Opponent: 49.87% (G:3.78% B:0.09%)
    Confidence: ±0.008 (+0.213..+0.230) - [0.0%]

    ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Dice Seed: 271828
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

    ---
    Tim Chow

    Of course the second two twos are 4(2)....other than the as mentioned potential lessening of crunching, you will get shots immediately sometimes. Offhand I'm sure there's a big swing if the opponent rolls [65 61] and one was silly enough to slot the
    four point. Obviously too when left unmolested we will have potential fly shots and again, would we rather have a point slotted the rare times we get lucky and hit that?

    Also in this weird scenario we own the cube which will allow us to cash the game when our opponent is forced to make big plays like hitting loose. We probably cash 1/6th of the games immediately when our opponent rolls poorly if we make the right play.
    With the slot the four point nonsense not so much.

    Stick

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Tue Nov 15 22:40:40 2022
    On 11/15/2022 5:32 PM, Stick Rice wrote:
    Of course the second two twos are 4(2)....other than the as mentioned potential lessening of crunching, you will get shots immediately sometimes. Offhand I'm sure there's a big swing if the opponent rolls [65 61] and one was silly enough to slot the
    four point. Obviously too when left unmolested we will have potential fly shots and again, would we rather have a point slotted the rare times we get lucky and hit that?

    Also in this weird scenario we own the cube which will allow us to cash the game when our opponent is forced to make big plays like hitting loose. We probably cash 1/6th of the games immediately when our opponent rolls poorly if we make the right play.
    With the slot the four point nonsense not so much.

    But the main alternative isn't 8/4; it's 8/6(2). I don't see how
    your comments address that.

    ---
    Tim Chow

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