• Some old posts from BGOnline

    From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 8 22:00:37 2022
    Stick's BGOnline website is moribund, but there's some very
    interesting content buried inside there. I decided to try to
    extract some interesting posts that I knew were in there, and
    copy them to my own website for ease of reference:

    http://timothychow.net/fun.html#sticksforum

    Obviously there is a bias toward my own posts, but others may
    find this list of articles interesting, too. For example,
    Paul might enjoy the "Firing squad" quiz in light of his
    newfound skill in deciding whether to step out to the 18pt.

    As other old posts come to mind, I may grow this list, but I
    don't intend for it to get too much longer. If Stick is reading
    this, I'd encourage him to think about ways to archive the BGO
    forums more permanently (i.e., so that it will continue to exist
    even after he stops maintaining it). I checked the Wayback
    Machine, and it has archived some of the posts, but only a tiny
    fraction (so far, anyway). The Wayback Machine is probably
    willing to archive the entire BGO forums, but the obstacle may
    be finding a good way to automate the process.

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From Nasti Chestikov@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Sun Oct 9 07:09:29 2022
    On Sunday, 9 October 2022 at 03:00:41 UTC+1, Tim Chow wrote:
    Stick's BGOnline website is moribund, but there's some very
    interesting content buried inside there. I decided to try to
    extract some interesting posts that I knew were in there, and
    copy them to my own website for ease of reference:

    http://timothychow.net/fun.html#sticksforum


    ---
    Tim Chow

    My browser is obviously having a bad day, nowhere on your website could I see a link to "hawking fast cars around the US for YouTube views".

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  • From pepstein5@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Sun Oct 9 09:26:29 2022
    On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 3:00:41 AM UTC+1, Tim Chow wrote:
    Stick's BGOnline website is moribund, but there's some very
    interesting content buried inside there. I decided to try to
    extract some interesting posts that I knew were in there, and
    copy them to my own website for ease of reference:

    http://timothychow.net/fun.html#sticksforum

    Obviously there is a bias toward my own posts, but others may
    find this list of articles interesting, too. For example,
    Paul might enjoy the "Firing squad" quiz in light of his
    newfound skill in deciding whether to step out to the 18pt.

    As other old posts come to mind, I may grow this list, but I
    don't intend for it to get too much longer. If Stick is reading
    this, I'd encourage him to think about ways to archive the BGO
    forums more permanently (i.e., so that it will continue to exist
    even after he stops maintaining it). I checked the Wayback
    Machine, and it has archived some of the posts, but only a tiny
    fraction (so far, anyway). The Wayback Machine is probably
    willing to archive the entire BGO forums, but the obstacle may
    be finding a good way to automate the process.

    Thank you for this.
    I looked at each firing squad quiz position.
    I can't give you an exact score because I didn't have a pen at hand,
    and I wasn't disciplined about making a careful note about what my plays would be.

    But, as I read through the solutions, I had a very strong feeling of "Yes! That's what I thought"
    the great majority of the time. I'm sure I would have done excellently in the quiz and I
    feel that my self-promotion as a major move-to-the-18-or-not expert is vindicated.

    Paul

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  • From Brenda Robinson@21:1/5 to peps...@gmail.com on Sun Oct 9 09:57:08 2022
    On Sunday, 9 October 2022 at 17:26:31 UTC+1, peps...@gmail.com wrote:

    But, as I read through the solutions, I had a very strong feeling of "Yes! That's what I thought"
    the great majority of the time. I'm sure I would have done excellently in the quiz and I
    feel that my self-promotion as a major move-to-the-18-or-not expert is vindicated.

    Paul

    Tim is playing with you.

    If you're using an exhaust header with a four-cylinder engine, how many exhaust pipes will you have?

    During the exhaust stroke, many engines lose power through?

    Nitrous oxide improves engine performance by providing more what?

    Basic stuff for Tim (aka Alex) but go for it.

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  • From Axel Reichert@21:1/5 to Timothy Chow on Sun Oct 9 22:17:28 2022
    Timothy Chow <tchow12000@yahoo.com> writes:

    Stick's BGOnline website is moribund, but there's some very
    interesting content buried inside there.

    Indeed, it was a valuable forum. At some point it somehow stopped rather abruptly, but because I was only an infrequent reader and even more
    infrequent poster, it seem I missed the reason for this. Can someone
    please briefly explain? And where are the discussions between Nack, Neil
    and all the others taking place now?

    Best regards

    Axel

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Brenda Robinson on Sun Oct 9 18:49:59 2022
    On 10/9/2022 12:57 PM, Brenda Robinson wrote:
    On Sunday, 9 October 2022 at 17:26:31 UTC+1, peps...@gmail.com wrote:

    But, as I read through the solutions, I had a very strong feeling of "Yes! That's what I thought"
    the great majority of the time. I'm sure I would have done excellently in the quiz and I
    feel that my self-promotion as a major move-to-the-18-or-not expert is vindicated.

    Paul

    Tim is playing with you.

    If you're using an exhaust header with a four-cylinder engine, how many exhaust pipes will you have?

    During the exhaust stroke, many engines lose power through?

    Nitrous oxide improves engine performance by providing more what?

    Basic stuff for Tim (aka Alex) but go for it.

    Hey, another Murat alter ego! Welcome to r.g.b.

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Axel Reichert on Sun Oct 9 18:56:33 2022
    On 10/9/2022 4:17 PM, Axel Reichert wrote:
    Timothy Chow <tchow12000@yahoo.com> writes:

    Stick's BGOnline website is moribund, but there's some very
    interesting content buried inside there.

    Indeed, it was a valuable forum. At some point it somehow stopped rather abruptly, but because I was only an infrequent reader and even more infrequent poster, it seem I missed the reason for this. Can someone
    please briefly explain? And where are the discussions between Nack, Neil
    and all the others taking place now?

    IMO, the biggest reason was that there were major server problems,
    which meant that the site was down for a long period of time. So
    people got out of the habit of visiting the site, and once that
    happened, it was hard to reboot it. Even now, there are server problems---pages take forever to load.

    A secondary reason is that the discussion migrated elsewhere---to
    Facebook, I think, but I can't personally confirm that because I'm
    not on Facebook. BGO was already declining in popularity when the
    server problems kicked in, so it might have fizzled out anyway, but
    I'm sure it would have lasted longer than it did if there weren't
    any server problems.

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Nasti Chestikov on Sun Oct 9 18:39:55 2022
    On 10/9/2022 10:09 AM, Nasti Chestikov wrote:
    My browser is obviously having a bad day, nowhere on your website could I see a link to "hawking fast cars around the US for YouTube views".

    Shhh...that's supposed to be a secret.

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Mon Oct 10 12:14:19 2022
    On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 6:56:36 PM UTC-4, Tim Chow wrote:
    On 10/9/2022 4:17 PM, Axel Reichert wrote:
    Timothy Chow <tchow...@yahoo.com> writes:

    Stick's BGOnline website is moribund, but there's some very
    interesting content buried inside there.

    Indeed, it was a valuable forum. At some point it somehow stopped rather abruptly, but because I was only an infrequent reader and even more infrequent poster, it seem I missed the reason for this. Can someone
    please briefly explain? And where are the discussions between Nack, Neil and all the others taking place now?
    IMO, the biggest reason was that there were major server problems,
    which meant that the site was down for a long period of time. So
    people got out of the habit of visiting the site, and once that
    happened, it was hard to reboot it. Even now, there are server problems---pages take forever to load.

    A secondary reason is that the discussion migrated elsewhere---to
    Facebook, I think, but I can't personally confirm that because I'm
    not on Facebook. BGO was already declining in popularity when the
    server problems kicked in, so it might have fizzled out anyway, but
    I'm sure it would have lasted longer than it did if there weren't
    any server problems.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    Not really the reasons at all. I'll reply later when I have time.

    Stick

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  • From pepstein5@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Mon Oct 10 13:37:09 2022
    On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 8:14:20 PM UTC+1, Stick Rice wrote:
    On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 6:56:36 PM UTC-4, Tim Chow wrote:
    On 10/9/2022 4:17 PM, Axel Reichert wrote:
    Timothy Chow <tchow...@yahoo.com> writes:

    Stick's BGOnline website is moribund, but there's some very
    interesting content buried inside there.

    Indeed, it was a valuable forum. At some point it somehow stopped rather abruptly, but because I was only an infrequent reader and even more infrequent poster, it seem I missed the reason for this. Can someone please briefly explain? And where are the discussions between Nack, Neil and all the others taking place now?
    IMO, the biggest reason was that there were major server problems,
    which meant that the site was down for a long period of time. So
    people got out of the habit of visiting the site, and once that
    happened, it was hard to reboot it. Even now, there are server problems---pages take forever to load.

    A secondary reason is that the discussion migrated elsewhere---to
    Facebook, I think, but I can't personally confirm that because I'm
    not on Facebook. BGO was already declining in popularity when the
    server problems kicked in, so it might have fizzled out anyway, but
    I'm sure it would have lasted longer than it did if there weren't
    any server problems.

    ---
    Tim Chow
    Not really the reasons at all. I'll reply later when I have time.

    Stick

    In reality, everyone stopped using it because it was just too expensive.
    It cost $0 USD dollars for one year's membership with a
    special lifetime subscription cost of $0, and a onetime guest fee of $0.
    This could easily add up to as much as $0 for people who used the website frequently.

    Paul

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Thu Oct 13 16:05:44 2022
    On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 6:56:36 PM UTC-4, Tim Chow wrote:
    On 10/9/2022 4:17 PM, Axel Reichert wrote:
    Timothy Chow <tchow...@yahoo.com> writes:

    Stick's BGOnline website is moribund, but there's some very
    interesting content buried inside there.

    Indeed, it was a valuable forum. At some point it somehow stopped rather abruptly, but because I was only an infrequent reader and even more infrequent poster, it seem I missed the reason for this. Can someone please briefly explain? And where are the discussions between Nack, Neil and all the others taking place now?
    IMO, the biggest reason was that there were major server problems,
    which meant that the site was down for a long period of time. So
    people got out of the habit of visiting the site, and once that
    happened, it was hard to reboot it. Even now, there are server problems---pages take forever to load.

    A secondary reason is that the discussion migrated elsewhere---to
    Facebook, I think, but I can't personally confirm that because I'm
    not on Facebook. BGO was already declining in popularity when the
    server problems kicked in, so it might have fizzled out anyway, but
    I'm sure it would have lasted longer than it did if there weren't
    any server problems.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    The site wasn't down, it (the forums) wasn't showing posts properly. I don't know what changed to make it not display properly. To this day it doesn't display properly because I've never taken the time to look into it/find someone who can fix it. If
    it did display properly I (we) would have already 'restarted' it. The truth is at the time it started having issues I was (and still am obv to an extent) over backgammon. I was the major postwhore on the forums and without me pushing them in several
    ways they would get somewhat stale. Unfortunately they are needed nowadays. I've had many people contact me about getting them working again because the Facebook discussions that have basically taken their place are unsatisfactory.

    I could make the site load faster for you whenever you like. For that all I have to do is reboot the server once in a while. I never do bc I'm never there and never care but give me a heads up and I will for whoever wants to go searching. I just
    rebooted it now fwiw.

    Stick

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Fri Oct 14 00:47:48 2022
    On 10/13/2022 7:05 PM, Stick Rice wrote:
    The site wasn't down, it (the forums) wasn't showing posts properly.
    You're right that it wasn't showing posts properly, and that probably
    did play some role. But I can testify that the site was inaccessible
    to many users for long periods of time. Maybe it wasn't technically
    "down," but around that time, I was visiting the site daily, and I
    definitely remember not being able to get through for long stretches
    at a time (days, even weeks). It might not have been everyone who had
    the problem, but it wasn't just me, because other people were
    complaining about it, and the traffic dropped precipitously.

    If it had been just the display problem, I suspect that the site would
    not have died so suddenly. I was okay with using the "Simple List"
    format, even though it was obviously inferior to the threaded list
    format, and I suspect that others might have soldiered on as well,
    enough to keep the site going for at least a little while longer. But
    trying for days on end to get through, and not being able to get
    through, and finding that nobody has posted in the interim because
    they have not been able to get through either, is definitely a downer.
    It means that the habit of visiting daily gets broken, and if that
    happens to everyone at the same time, then it's hard to restart.

    But, I do agree that the lack of your pushing it was also a big factor.
    My general impression was that there were three major sources of
    traffic.

    1. Gossiping about live events.
    2. The online match. (OLM)
    3. A few postwhores. Stick and I were the main ones initiating new
    threads about positions.

    I think that the OLM basically stopped happening after mid-2016 because
    Jason Lee didn't have time for it anymore, and nobody else took up the
    mantle. Gossiping can easily migrate elsewhere. It's the discussion of positions and the commentary by "name" players that gave BGO its
    distinctive "brand." After Stick and I both stopped investing in the
    site that way, the handwriting was on the wall.

    Regarding the speed of the pages loading, I tried just now and it still
    sucks. It takes at least 5 seconds to load a page. If I click on
    "Return to Index" it takes more than 10 seconds. This by itself may
    not be a complete dealbreaker, but it's definitely a drag, especially
    for people who are posting and may want to view several drafts before committing to a post.

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Timothy Chow on Sun Oct 16 18:55:33 2022
    On 10/14/2022 12:47 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
    On 10/13/2022 7:05 PM, Stick Rice wrote:
    The site wasn't down, it (the forums) wasn't showing posts properly.

    You're right that it wasn't showing posts properly, and that probably
    did play some role.  But I can testify that the site was inaccessible
    to many users for long periods of time.  Maybe it wasn't technically
    "down," but around that time, I was visiting the site daily, and I
    definitely remember not being able to get through for long stretches
    at a time (days, even weeks).  It might not have been everyone who had
    the problem, but it wasn't just me, because other people were
    complaining about it, and the traffic dropped precipitously.

    Just to give some evidence for what I said above---here's a link to a
    post I made on June 17, 2019.

    http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?noframes;read=210269

    I couldn't get to BGO using the normal method and had to use a
    workaround. If you read some of the replies, you'll see that, strictly speaking, the site probably wasn't completely "down," but other people
    were having similar problems, and the traffic dropped rather suddenly.

    Things seemed to get only worse from then on. Here's a post from Terje Pedersen from January 24, 2020. He was one of the last holdouts, but he remarked that "The forum has been a bit unstable recently with a lot of downtime?"

    http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?noframes;read=210533

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Mon Oct 17 20:00:55 2022
    On Sunday, October 16, 2022 at 6:55:36 PM UTC-4, Tim Chow wrote:
    On 10/14/2022 12:47 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
    On 10/13/2022 7:05 PM, Stick Rice wrote:
    The site wasn't down, it (the forums) wasn't showing posts properly.

    You're right that it wasn't showing posts properly, and that probably
    did play some role. But I can testify that the site was inaccessible
    to many users for long periods of time. Maybe it wasn't technically "down," but around that time, I was visiting the site daily, and I definitely remember not being able to get through for long stretches
    at a time (days, even weeks). It might not have been everyone who had
    the problem, but it wasn't just me, because other people were
    complaining about it, and the traffic dropped precipitously.
    Just to give some evidence for what I said above---here's a link to a
    post I made on June 17, 2019.

    http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?noframes;read=210269

    I couldn't get to BGO using the normal method and had to use a
    workaround. If you read some of the replies, you'll see that, strictly speaking, the site probably wasn't completely "down," but other people
    were having similar problems, and the traffic dropped rather suddenly.

    Things seemed to get only worse from then on. Here's a post from Terje Pedersen from January 24, 2020. He was one of the last holdouts, but he remarked that "The forum has been a bit unstable recently with a lot of downtime?"

    http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?noframes;read=210533

    ---
    Tim Chow


    When you say 'site' you mean 'forums' and again, it was what I said. I don't even care to argue about it though.

    Stick

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Tue Oct 18 22:59:53 2022
    On 10/17/2022 11:00 PM, Stick Rice wrote:

    When you say 'site' you mean 'forums' and again, it was what I said. I don't even care to argue about it though.

    The main thing you said that was highly confusing was that the main
    problem was that the forums were not "displaying properly." This makes
    it sound like you were referring to the way the threaded list feature
    was broken and how the default display would not actually display all
    the posts it was supposed to. These were annoying but I for one did
    not regard them as being dealbreakers.

    In my opinion, a much bigger contributor to the death of BGO was that
    users attempting to view the posts either could not get through at all,
    or could get through only via a weird workaround, or (even now) that the
    pages take too long to load. If the inability to get through at all, or
    the extremely long load times, are what you meant by "not displaying
    properly," then I have no argument.

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From MK@21:1/5 to Axel Reichert on Fri Oct 21 14:30:12 2022
    On October 9, 2022 at 2:17:31 PM UTC-6, Axel Reichert wrote:

    At some point it somehow stopped rather abruptly.....
    Can someone please briefly explain? And where are
    the discussions between Nack, Neil and all the others
    taking place now?

    I have similar questions, if anyone cares to answer.

    Why was BGOnline created in the first place? What
    was the need for it? And why by Stick of all people?

    At some point, RGB had stopped being "the mother
    of all BG forums". Many people had started creating
    personal blogs with some requiring paid membership.

    Apparently many people had left RGB to participate
    in those, including Stick's forum. Do they still exist?

    Also, what is the size of current BG "community"? It
    seems the have dwindled in general. Looking at the
    USBGF membership revenues/fees, it seems like it's
    less than 1,000. Are there more accurate estimates?

    What about in other countries and world-wide?

    MK

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 21 15:48:50 2022
    On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 5:30:15 PM UTC-4, MK wrote:
    On October 9, 2022 at 2:17:31 PM UTC-6, Axel Reichert wrote:

    At some point it somehow stopped rather abruptly.....
    Can someone please briefly explain? And where are
    the discussions between Nack, Neil and all the others
    taking place now?
    I have similar questions, if anyone cares to answer.

    Why was BGOnline created in the first place? What
    was the need for it? And why by Stick of all people?

    At some point, RGB had stopped being "the mother
    of all BG forums". Many people had started creating
    personal blogs with some requiring paid membership.

    Apparently many people had left RGB to participate
    in those, including Stick's forum. Do they still exist?

    Also, what is the size of current BG "community"? It
    seems the have dwindled in general. Looking at the
    USBGF membership revenues/fees, it seems like it's
    less than 1,000. Are there more accurate estimates?

    What about in other countries and world-wide?

    MK

    BGO was created, by me of all people, because I felt like it. Wasn't necessarily a need for it, it was something I wanted to do so I did it. My forums have always been and will always be free for all. Kit had forums at the time that were the same set
    up, cost some amount, like $35 for a lifetime membership (or maybe yearly, I forget) or something, but aside from the online match they were rather dead. And again, only allowed those who paid for a membership. Kit eventually sold one of his sites and
    started another (gammonu?) and I believe the latter is also defunct.

    Hardy used to run forums, albeit in German, but still useful for positions and one can always translate. They are dead now. (http://forum.hardyhuebener.de/backgammon/)

    There is still a discussion area that is active at dailygammon.com You need a login to access it I believe (free). (http://dailygammon.com/bg/forum2)

    Two plus Two is still alive but Robertie runs it and I'll leave it at that. (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/138/backgammon-forum-hosted-bill-robertie/)

    The French Federation ran some sort of forums that I used to participate in but I can't find them with a quick search. If they still exist they should be findable via https://www.ffbg.fr/la-federation

    If you're a member of the USBGF they at least have a group that has an OLM series with Kazaross running it. They used to have something similar to forums but I'm not sure they still do as my membership is expired and I can't access that part of the site
    any more. It looks to be changed though and nothing that blatantly jumps out as *forums.

    People talk about bg on reddit of course. Rarely is there anything worth reading but it's worth stopping by once a week to check in.

    That's all that immediately comes to mind.

    Stick

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Fri Oct 21 23:47:34 2022
    On 10/21/2022 6:48 PM, Stick Rice wrote:
    That's all that immediately comes to mind.

    What about Facebook? I've never had a Facebook account so I don't
    know how it's structured, but people occasionally mention Facebook
    (e.g., BlueDice recently alluded to Facebook).

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From MK@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Sat Oct 22 14:14:36 2022
    On October 21, 2022 at 4:48:51 PM UTC-6, Stick Rice wrote:

    BGO was created, by me of all people, because I felt like it.

    Thanks for your detailed reply. By saying "of all people",
    I didn't mean to make less of you in any way, within the
    context, and I apologize if it came accross that way.

    Wasn't necessarily a need for it, it was something I
    wanted to do so I did it. My forums have always been
    and will always be free for all.

    The reason I asked was that, at some point in the past,
    some people had started asking for alternative forums
    where people like me could be controlled or kept out.

    I have always been against privately owned forums and
    have hardly particiapted in them because of censorship
    and ownership concerns. However, I don't mind reading
    archived posts from such forums or blogs. I often follow
    link posted here to read articles from your forum and I
    also search it for what was said on certain topics.

    My forums have always been and will always be free for all.

    In addition to not trying to make a buck from it, I think
    you need to be commended for having ran a forum for
    almost 16 years, with over 207K posts from dozens of
    people.

    Hardy used to run forums, albeit in German, but still useful

    His forum page is not accessible. Other pages do open
    but may be mostly obsolete being last updated in 2010.

    There is still a discussion area that is active at dailygammon

    That site was also last updated in November 2010.

    Two plus Two is still alive but Robertie runs it and I'll leave
    it at that.

    It's not fair to make us curious and not tell us why... ;)

    The French Federation ran some sort of forums.....
    If you're a member of the USBGF they at least have.....

    I joined USBGF and GammonSite2000 during the 2020
    pandemic but they had not much appealing for me and
    I haven't renewed.

    People talk about bg on reddit of course. Rarely is there
    anything worth reading but it's worth stopping by once a
    week to check in.

    Other than the Reddit pages that come up as a result of
    general web searches, I've never used it for any specific
    reason.

    Tim mentioned Facebook a few times. I had an account
    for a while in the past and had checked some BG pages
    there but hadn't found anything very interestin there either.

    For me, RGB is it!

    MK

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