• Race cube 1

    From ah...Clem@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 23 17:22:55 2022
    Somewhat contrived, but dust off your favorite race cube algorithm.


    XGID=--ABBBBB-BB----bbbabbbb---:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O O O O |
    | O O O | | O O O O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | X X X | | X X X X |
    | X X X | | X X X X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 90 O: 97 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to ah...Clem on Fri Sep 23 20:05:22 2022
    On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 5:23:00 PM UTC-4, ah...Clem wrote:
    Somewhat contrived, but dust off your favorite race cube algorithm.


    XGID=--ABBBBB-BB----bbbabbbb---:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O O O O |
    | O O O | | O O O O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | X X X | | X X X X |
    | X X X | | X X X X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 90 O: 97 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action

    Modified Keith Count works just fine for a position like this.

    Stick

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  • From ah...Clem@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 26 11:46:18 2022
    Trice, Isight, Thorpe, and Kieth metrics all correctly calculate this as
    a take, since 90 to 98 is a score well within the take region.

    Of those, only Trice correctly says it's a double (not sure what the
    "modified" Keith count is that allegedly gets it right) But it's barely
    a double according to the rollout.




    XGID=--ABBBBB-BB----bbbabbbb---:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O O O O |
    | O O O | | O O O O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | X X X | | X X X X |
    | X X X | | X X X X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 90 O: 97 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action

    Analyzed in Rollout
    No double
    Player Winning Chances: 71.79% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 28.21% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
    Double/Take
    Player Winning Chances: 71.79% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 28.21% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)

    Cubeless Equities: No Double=+0.436, Double=+0.871

    Cubeful Equities:
    No double: +0.681 (-0.007)
    Double/Take: +0.688
    Double/Pass: +1.000 (+0.312)

    Best Cube action: Double / Take

    Rollout:
    1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
    Confidence No Double: ± 0.003 (+0.678..+0.685)
    Confidence Double: ± 0.004 (+0.684..+0.692)

    Double Decision confidence: 99.5%
    Take Decision confidence: 100.0%

    Duration: 2 minutes 54 seconds

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to ah...Clem on Mon Sep 26 16:03:55 2022
    On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 11:46:22 AM UTC-4, ah...Clem wrote:
    Trice, Isight, Thorpe, and Kieth metrics all correctly calculate this as
    a take, since 90 to 98 is a score well within the take region.

    Of those, only Trice correctly says it's a double (not sure what the "modified" Keith count is that allegedly gets it right) But it's barely
    a double according to the rollout. XGID=--ABBBBB-BB----bbbabbbb---:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

    X:Player 1 O:Player 2
    Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
    +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
    | O O O O | | O O O O |
    | O O O | | O O O O |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | |BAR| |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | | | |
    | X X X | | X X X X |
    | X X X | | X X X X X |
    +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
    Pip count X: 90 O: 97 X-O: 0-0
    Cube: 1
    X on roll, cube action
    Analyzed in Rollout
    No double
    Player Winning Chances: 71.79% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 28.21% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
    Double/Take
    Player Winning Chances: 71.79% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
    Opponent Winning Chances: 28.21% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)

    Cubeless Equities: No Double=+0.436, Double=+0.871

    Cubeful Equities:
    No double: +0.681 (-0.007)
    Double/Take: +0.688
    Double/Pass: +1.000 (+0.312)

    Best Cube action: Double / Take

    Rollout:
    1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
    Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
    Confidence No Double: ± 0.003 (+0.678..+0.685)
    Confidence Double: ± 0.004 (+0.684..+0.692)

    Double Decision confidence: 99.5%
    Take Decision confidence: 100.0%

    Duration: 2 minutes 54 seconds

    eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

    You can see the Keith modifications that I'm referring to about 3/4ths of the way through this page. And yes, it gets it right.

    http://bgonline.org/jf.html

    Stick

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  • From Timothy Chow@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Tue Sep 27 09:00:00 2022
    On 9/26/2022 7:03 PM, Stick Rice wrote:
    You can see the Keith modifications that I'm referring to about 3/4ths of the way through this page. And yes, it gets it right.

    http://bgonline.org/jf.html

    What other articles do you have with a URL of the form http://bgonline.org/SOMETHING.html ?

    I know about http://bgonline.org/epc.html but don't remember
    any others.

    ---
    Tim Chow

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  • From ah...Clem@21:1/5 to Stick Rice on Tue Sep 27 10:04:36 2022
    On 9/26/2022 7:03 PM, Stick Rice wrote:


    You can see the Keith modifications that I'm referring to about 3/4ths of the way through this page. And yes, it gets it right.

    http://bgonline.org/jf.html


    There's a lot to digest on that page, but my reading is that the short
    version of the "modified" Keith count is to expand the doubling window
    for longer races. Am I missing something?

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  • From Axel Reichert@21:1/5 to ah...Clem on Tue Sep 27 23:14:16 2022
    "ah...Clem" <ah_clem@ymail.com> writes:

    On 9/26/2022 7:03 PM, Stick Rice wrote:


    You can see the Keith modifications that I'm referring to about
    3/4ths of the way through this page. And yes, it gets it right.

    http://bgonline.org/jf.html


    There's a lot to digest on that page, but my reading is that the short version of the "modified" Keith count is to expand the doubling window
    for longer races. Am I missing something?

    Not IMHO. I tested Stick's ideas some months back. Where my Isight
    method (in its standard version) and the Keith count ignore the race
    length and Trice classifies into short and long races, Stick uses 4
    cases:

    l <= 80
    80 < l <= 100 (4 % of the races)
    100 < l <= 120 (0.3 % of the races)
    120 < l (exactly 1 (!) of 50000 positions in Tom's database)

    On Tom Keith's endgame database the total equity loss is as follows:

    Trice (with "my" pip adjustments): 1424
    Keith : 1262
    Stick's modified Keith count : 1182
    Isight (standard) : 1064
    Isight (short/long, see page 40) : 1041

    Since the Keith count requires more adjustment work than mine, my method
    is more accurate AND needs less effort, see paragraph 2 on page 17.

    And, if you care about races longer than 80 pips, see page 40. For money sessions and "long" races above 50 pips this boils down to (in your
    Python code terminology)

    POLT = LC + LC/10 + 2

    , which with a window size of 4 is the good old "10 % +/- 2 pips"
    rule. For "short" races below 50 pips you get

    POLT = LC + 2*LC/10 - 3

    Both are very simple to calculate. For exactly 50 pips both formulae
    give the same POLT of 57.

    The reason that this is better than "standard Isight" becomes clear from
    figure 13 (Thorp is "10 % +/- 2 pips"), and the reason that this is only slightly better becomes clear from figure 14.

    But this short/long modification gets all three of Stick's examples
    right.

    Best regards

    Axel

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  • From Stick Rice@21:1/5 to Tim Chow on Tue Sep 27 16:28:21 2022
    On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 9:00:02 AM UTC-4, Tim Chow wrote:
    On 9/26/2022 7:03 PM, Stick Rice wrote:
    You can see the Keith modifications that I'm referring to about 3/4ths of the way through this page. And yes, it gets it right.

    http://bgonline.org/jf.html
    What other articles do you have with a URL of the form http://bgonline.org/SOMETHING.html ?

    I know about http://bgonline.org/epc.html but don't remember
    any others.

    ---
    Tim Chow

    It's not an article though I realize how it comes across as one. It was just notes at the time more or less. And how many links? Idk, I used to do a lot of junk. Off the top of my head I remember there's an epcquiz.html and probably epc2.html in this
    specific milieu of links.

    Stick

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